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Ergotelis v. Panathinaikos


athinaios

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Thanks to the super Supreleague we didn't see. There was one veeeeery long scene and all one could see was Karagounis getting ready to deliver a freekick in the box. Then an Ergotelis player went down and the ref ran and showed him the red. Ten Cate said it was justified and that it was amateur act by Roukavina.

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Hi Cyber, how can you honestly say Diogo's penalty was laughable? If you take your green coloured glasses you will see that Diogo is through in the box, clearly in a goal scoring position and 2 defenders impede his run and bring him down.

I saw both games and Olympiacos created enough chances to be up 4-0 at hal time without the missed penalty, on the other side PAO didnt create 4 chances for the whole game.

The problem with Greek football, Greek team owners and Greek fans is that ftaine oki i alli ektos auti, the referees, the linesmen, EPO, SL for their own shortcomings.

When you have the arrogant Pateras who knows nothing about football saying we have unlimited MILLIONS to spend on transfers and when it comes to the crunch of actually paying for playerts goes quite and tells the fans that the players are too expensive , what do you expect?

Good teams will always rise above bad refeering decisions, bad grounds etc,

as the legendary Ferenc Puskas said whilst coaching here in Melbourne Australia in the late 80's, football is simple game , if you score more goals than your opponents you will win the game,

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Thanks Cyber, It amazes me that all teams in Greece blame 1 or 2 referee decisions when some highly paid Vendetes can make 6-7 mistakes in the same game,

The biggest problem as i see it, is the team supported newspapers that feed the supporters so much bullshit in preseason about the so called superstars that are on the verge of signing and the propaganda they spill, to the extent that supporters of the away team cannot attend games,

Here in Melbourne at the Australian Rules Football grand final we had 102,000 fans with no broken seats, no flares, no fires, no brawls etc, with fans of all 16 clubs in the crowd,

When are we going to see the OAKA with 70,000 fans for a PAO v OSFP game with 35, 000 fans of either side watch the game in a civilised manner and at the end applaud both teams no matter the result?

I can see it happening in the next 10 years

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After almost bashing in the screen of my computer, I went out and cleared my head... Actually it was way below freezing so I cooled down nicely. :LOL:

No one can be happy with this game and no one can be happy with this season..... almost. Let me tell you, if we beat Villareal and advance, that's a great season for me. I think we'll get to the playoffs and win a CL spot.

Regardless of what you say about Ten Kate, I think we have a good coach that we should keep. We wasted many years, if this one serves to fine-tune a team, let it be.

I read that a new EPO prez was elected. Do you guys know anything about him? Any good change on the horizon?

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Yeah, Pilavios is the new EPO president. He beat the "master of behind the scenes" Viktoras Mitropoulos and that's enough to give us all hope.

Pilavios worked with Panathinaikos in the Philipidis years. I think he was our legal representative or something like that. Afterwards he worked for EPO and focused in lobying around UEFA and FIFA.

Everyone in the superleague wanted him and that's another sign that he might be able to implement some changes.

I guess what I'd like to see is a complete reformation of the referee system and the legal system. Maybe they can get real judges for the courts (layers have been making the decisions all these years).

I am holding a small basket anyway.

Petera, I completely agree. If you search back this forum, we've had these conversations many times in the past. Today it was not referee's fault we sucked.

But there are still things to look forward to. For me, in order of importance they are:

- Advance to the next CL round

- Capture second place

- Beat Olympiakos in Karaiskaki

- Play good football (I don't mind loosing, but I can't stand performances like today's)

- Win the cup

- start building that blusted stadium I've been waiting for all my life

Nice trick Athinaie. I almost went out for a walk too, but I looked at the snow and went back in to watch Pink Floyd videos on youtube (Astronomy Domine, and Live at Pompeii) with a huge glass of beer. That did it for me. At one point I thought I was conversing with Pateras, but I soon realized it was only Peteras :wacko:

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Petera: The blame of the referee has to do with the level of PAO being down, not PAO being down. I honestly beleive it would only be +5 or +6 if the refereeing had been more level. Its a big difference from +12. The refereeing has been miserably one sided.

That is absolutley not an excuse for PAO's performance yesterday, or some instances of plain shooting themselves in the foot - but quite a few games where PAO did not deserve to drop points were affected by refereeing, and games where OSFP did not deserve 3 points were affected by referreing.

Simply because PAO makes their own mistakes, does not mean the refereeing is not also a factor. PAO makes mistakes they pay for it. OSFP makes mistakes, they are bailed out. Thats the big difference.

Even without OSFP bailouts, theyd still be ahead. That doesnt make it ok for this refereeing to go on like this.

Diogo's penalty was a fair call, Id see why a harsh ref would ignore it, and but Id expect most refs to call.

but I understood why the referee blew his whistle, contact took away an alone on goal advantage, and because that advantage was taken away unfairly by OFI, its a penalty.....However we have OSFP desperatley trying to retaliate with nearly the same thing happening to Gilberto as hes about to shoot from very close inside the area.

As for the game and clearing my head:

Yeah I suprisingly barely cared. I am so used to the "ride" PAO takes us for, and its not like realisitcally I could see PAO winning at this point, I honestly accepted it was over the last time we lost to Ergotelis.

The only thing that pisses me off are our dick head management who do nothing except talk.

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I just watched Athlitiki Kyriaki and Varouhas showed the Diogo penalty. He said it was penalty, but I say it was offensive foul. I am writting this mostly as a response to the friend's Petera's comments regarding the Diogo penalty.

Yes, that's right! Diogo runs towards the ball. Two defenders close from left and right quickly. Diogo raises his arm and pushes the one around the neck to create space for himself. Within the same motion, he does the same thing with his other hand to push the other defender.

This was not the usual little hand-check. There were two outstretched arms that gave him the space to get to the ball. Both defenders lost their ballance as a result and they did obstruct his progress, but this was what I saw at first glance: a laughable penalty.

Varouhas mentioned the Karagounis penalty in Crete as well. Same kind of play, two defenders dropping Karagounis in the box (except Karagounis is not pushing anyone). Varouhas said it was a penalty, although I saw that the defender managed to touch the ball first. Not sure if one of them hit Karagounis' foot before hand.

Anyway, Drakos put this in the proper proportions. There is something very fish with the referees and they are responsible for many of the 12 point spread between Oly and PAO.

For the longest time I had the philosophy that we should worry about our team and not complain about the referees. I no longer believe that Panathinaikos is served by us being silent about it. I think that's why some refereeing is so blatantly wrong.

We have more problems as a team, and we need to be addressing them, but we can't afford to ignore the hostile referees any longer.

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Yeah, there's no excuse for our dreadful performance. But, new dynamics are created by not having a professional league and refs that are good.

For example, had PAO been, say, -3 or -4 points, if we've gotten the correct calls this season, then the leading team (gavroi) would feel more pressure, more likely to do mistakes. Same with our players too who would try a little harder to reach the top. Clayton expressed something that many PAO players already had thought about.... that this season is over as far the title is concerned! I think Cyber said it earlier: having a sense that you'll win a game one way or another and that you have a comfortable distance from your opponents gives an advantage.

Cyber, if the player touches the ball first doesn't necessarily gives him a no-penalty play. If we both go for the ball, but I get to the ball first because I fouled you, then it's a foul or a penalty. Or, if I tip/touch the ball (not clear it) and in doing so I then bring you down (so you can't advance) it's also a penalty. Kara could have gotten one.

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Ergotelis is certainly the Bogey team for Panathinaikos since they were promoted. For years I was an advocate of reducing the Greek League from 16 teams to 12 teams to create an elite and more competitive League. Now I think I have changed to thinking that Greece should increase to 18 teams.

I also think that 3 teams being relegated out of 16 is too many but with 18 teams seems fair. If less teams were relegated do you think the standard of Greek footbal would improve?

On the positive side, Olympiakos still have to play AEK (away), PAOK (away) and Pana (home), just imagine if they lost all 3 game on...but that would depend on how the results were going against so called weaker opposition.

I just want to know if Oly are worth 12 points difference..I don't think they are that good..would neutral refs help...Does anyone know what Anders Frisk has achieved in his role at looking at refs.

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even if we evened the refereeing (taking away obvious favouritism calls of OSFP, and gave PAO justice (both AEK games, first game was a 100% no penalty awarded, not to mention the other countless penalty claims......

even with those leveled OSFP woul be ahead, just not by 12 points by any means. We are losing by ourselves, but the point gap is widened by pathetic 1 sided refereeing and thats the truth. I dont honestly beleive there are OSFP fans who beleive theres a fair 12 point gap in differnece between the teams, thats just nonsense. They havent paid for their inconsistencies. We pay for everything and have to work harder for everything.

Were never going to be able to fix the referees - we have to at least do better to win, and it will be way more rewarding than these farse championships OSFP wins, with ref pushing them, an even getting 3 points for a 1-0 loss in Kalamarias...

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I agree with Warzycha about the number of teams in the league. But, I don't think gavroi will lose all those 3 derbies while we will win everything. I mean if we stumble against Ergotelis, then forget it.

I think I'm areasonable guy, I can sit down and talk, try to reach an understanding. BUT, I wouldn't be as pathetic as Tzigger. He and his managment team have failed to protect the club. It's not 1 occasion, or even a year that Oly gets preferential treatment on and off (courts, EPO, etc) the pitch.

What the hell???? You are Panathinkaikos for crying out loud. Boycott, sue, do whatever it takes to protect the club and get at least as much as your main opponent who calls you "pelati." Why do you accept this situation is beyond me. :angry:

So, no I disagree, Drakos, if "we never going to fix the referees" then we (WE A REALLY BIG CLUB IN THE COUNTRY WITH A BIG FAN BASE) are missing something... it's bad form, it's stupid, it's not right.

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