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Ergotelis v. Panathinaikos


athinaios

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I agree with athinaios. Penalty or no penalty, ejection or no ejection this was intolerable to watch. I 'm not going to bitch after this miserable perfomance - I 've said what I think about this club. I said club, not team. Even this incomplete team could have won the league easily. But PAO is a PR company nowadays and not a club. HTC is partly responsible for accepting this s%$#!. And, let's face it, there is no management. My grandma used to say '

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awful performance.

Ten Cate took us from our best game of the season to our worst by changing this lineup.

Rukavina - not a starter, sorry guys quick and finishing sitters is not a superstar, the guy is not a 90min player, and still has plenty to learn - and I mean this outside of the red card too.

I say give Rukavina a big fine, and get a fricking transfer.

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No excuses for this one. But at least I think I got a glimpse of what's wrong (which I knew all along).

Did Cleyton give an interview and said "we can't win every game"? If he did, he is way out of line.

This talk is indicative of players who don't understand the gravity of the jersey they wear, and of management that has failed to instill the winning attitude that is required of champions.

What a way to waste the nice fan base they built this summer. Remember the record season tickets? the sold out OAKA?

Don't bring in Durica because he wants 1.5 m in salary. Don't bring in a CF to keep defenses honest. Just go down to Ergotelis with Zero center backs so you can take your start midfielder out of his position to plug the hole, and play 68 minutes without CF.

Would AEK take Melisi+Cleyton+Roukavina+5million for Kyriakos? We need some real "winners" in this team and not little kids. Maybe they can come wear the green jersey when they grow up.

Let me add a few of them emoticons for good measure: :ph34r: :angry: :ph34r: :angry: :ph34r: :angry:

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Cyber, I 'm with you on the Cleyton statement, not because he was wrong (you can't win every Sunday), but because you don't say that in public even if it's true when you are at PAO. But there have been worse statements recently - much worse. The shareholders need to shut up. Just shut up and let the people you hired do their jobs. They will be evaluated in the end. Vgeno and Tzigger about the players who don't get playing time, Giannakopoulos (repeatedly) about who's got the genia and the xtenia and Pateras talking nonsense every time he gets the chance. Stupid, unprofessional and disruptive statements. Instead of discrediting the -so typical among fans- talk about how many DMs we field or who the most 'undervalued' player is or who signs whom they reproduce it in public. In the CL at least HTC was allowed to do his thing - 3 DMs, tight marking and through to the next round. Not a disgrace to field 3 DMs any more huh?

In conclusion, if PAO is where Vgeno, Vardinogiannis, Pateras and the like get the chance to see their signings or favourite players on the pitch and pose for the cameras, there's no need to keep worrying about this club. I can't help thinking that there's something fishy about the treatment HTC saves for Mattos and Iv. They were good when they helped the club qualify for the group stages. Now they 're not even suitable for the bench. It just doesn't make any sense. Esp with Mattos who -mercy!- is NOT worse than Melissis at DM. I 'm always with the coach but this one is not merely unreasonable - it's ###### irrational. And I don't give a s%$#! about these cases per se. But I fear that there's a crooked principle behind it - one that can bring this club to its utter ruin.

PS: You gotta see the Diogo 'penalty'.

PS2: You also gotta read the Mantzourakis statements. He almost apologised for equalising...

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PS: You gotta see the Diogo 'penalty'.

PS2: You also gotta read the Mantzourakis statements. He almost apologised for equalising...

Are you serious????????

They got another gift penalty??????????

OK was probably some obstruction, Diogo sold it but id call it a 60/40 and we wouldnt get it ....... not a big deal.

We lost the championship last time, Ergotelis not today. Lets just hope PAOK and AEK slip.

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Hey Titus, don't say bad words. :P

BTW, the @%$# in my posts were mine (if you are referring to those).

I saw the Diogo penalty. It was laughable. Our players get manhandled and we still don't get the calls. I am sure Varouhas will find all the little touch points where the defenders made contact. He might even say "2 on 1" (there is not such a foul)

About Cleyton: It's not that Cleyton said it in public. It's that he would even think it. Analysts and statisticians can worry about how many games can be won. Cleyton's job is to take the field to win every single one.

Panathinaikos is expected to win 99% of the superleague games, and 100% of games against Ergotelis. This is not Larissa. He should be feeling so bad he should be apologizing profusely for not giving 100% today, and he should not be able to sleep for two days.

We've been talking for years about management being responsible for our calamity in the lasts 10 years. Share holders should just buy the players, pay them on time, watch the games, and stay out of the media. They should work to establish high goals and hire the people who are capable of achieving them.

Antoniou seems to be out of his depth. His job is to protect the team from upper management and to make sure the team gets what they need on a day to day basis, including keeping the morale high. His abilities in the transfer market seem to be limited. When I hear "we need to get lucky" to land players, I grind my teeth.

Ten Cate needs to keep his team ready to play and he needs to keep the intensity and morale high. He needs to be able to keep the players focused. If management pushes him to play certain players, he should tell them to buzz-off. He needs to build "a team" and forget about pleasing management, fans, or certain players.

The players have a huge responsibility too. They took the field like prima donnas today. Ninis, Roukavina, and Cleyton exhausted their play in some silly back hills and low percentage passes and runs. I was thinking how we missed the contagious rate of work Salpigidis puts forth every single game irrespective of opponent. And he gets little love from the fans. He can't dribble like Cleyton, but he is ten times the player.

By now I've had the opportunity to watch everyone and I have to say that I hope we get at least one CB of Durica's caliper and a CF who can keep opponents occupied and on their hills all game long.

If we take the field against Villarreal with this kind of game it can get ugly.

I have seen enough of Melissis. Last time he played CB we lost to Ergotelis again. Ten Cate pointed out how there were 5 defenders around in Ergotelis' goal. He said it was "horrible defending". Get Mattos back in there. Sure he seems to juggle the ball when he receives it, but there is no comparison between him and Melissis in midfield. Heck, I think Mattos would have played better at CB today.

Seven days to upgrade the team. Let's hope management drops the faith on the supernatural and flashes some green to get Durica and Nilmar.

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After seeing both PAO (extended highlights) and Oly today I have the following to say in response to the comments here:

1) Why are you moaning about centre-backs as if that's PAO's only problem? You could have had John Terry and Cannavaro at centre back today and PAO still wouldn't have won! There's no individual creativity in the team... which brings us on to:

2) The board has been totally unprofessional in the transfer market so far. Nilmar, who looks fanatastic, is on the verge of signing for Palermo despite expressing an interest in PAO, and there have been no moves made to improve the defence or the wings where PAO need work.

3) @Green Titus & Cyberfish, Diogo was through on goal and was clearly fouled in the box, it was a penalty. And if you saw the game there was clearly no refereeing bias otherwise OFI would have been down to 7 men! Arvanitis in particular was a disgrace, he should have seen a straight red for his tackle on Belluschi alone, let alone all the other dirty fouls he made. So guys, if you want PAO to progress stop blaming your rivals for your own team's limitations.

4) Regardless of the penalty decision, Olympiakos created numerous chances with their free flowing football (particularly in the first half) and had they not decreased their tempo in the 2nd half they'd have scored more. Whereas PAO hardly ever looked threatening. The fact is, from an offensive perspective Olympiakos is in a different class from PAO. Sorry but it's true.

5) Why did HTC change his formation from the last game? Apart from Weder away I haven't seen PAO been "brilliant" this year in the way I've seen Olympiakos be brilliant (in pretty much every home game this season), or even PAOK at home (vs Xanthi for instance). The fact is PAO don't play very good football. It can, at times, be effective, but good, creative football it aint.

Major improvements must be made because quite frankly PAO are too boring to win the league. This team doesn't have the capacity to blow teams away with creative football.

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Good thoughts Dude, but you might be overreaching a bit on the conclusions. Panathinaikos had a horrible game today all around. But Olympiakos had many games like we did today and one way or another they won. Several times smaller teams had Olympiakos on their backhills even at Karaiskaki but Olympiakos managed to squeak by. Sometimes by a shoestring tackle by a defender, sometimes by luck, sometime with the ref.

Regarding the penalty, sure there was contact of players but in similar cases in PAO games the refs wave the game on (and with attitude too). Karagounis had a very similar play today in the box. Simao's shot was blocked by an oustretched arm. All debatable, but what's not debatable is that iffy calls always go Olympiakos' way.

You are wrong about CBs. The only CB available today was Vintra, and he became a CB this year out of necessity because Pellerano and then Givet stiffed the team. Vintra has been great, but today we had to take our best midfielder to cover the lack of depth at CB. Melissis proved once again that he can't play at this level. Maybe some day, but not now.

Panathinaikos has plenty of skilled players. Cleyton, Roukavina, Karagounis, Gabriel can dribble anyone one on one. What the team lacks is cohesion that would give it speed. The passing game was so slow today there were always 2 or 3 defenders behind the ball.

Regarding TenCate, he is determined to play an offensive 4-2-3-1, and he tries it always when he things the opponent is weak.

But this system requires excellent marking defenders because they get exposed more often. The fullbacks play (or the design is to play) as high as possible, so the CBs need to play wider along with the DMs to support the counter on the wings.

Note on Ergotelis' goal how Nilsson is nowhere near the ball. He was wide right (and got burned). Gabriel was covering but he could not follow. Vintra came out correctly and stopped Koutsianikoulis' run. Koutsianikoulis was forced to pass to Romano. Simao was in the right spot and he failed to mark him, Melissis was in the right place and began sliding to cover Simao but came to the ball too late.

This is good design by the coach who puts his players in positions to make the play. They failed to get a boot on the ball on several occasions. It's not Ten Cate's fault that our defenders mark with their eyes.

The system also requires a CF who can hold his own up front to allow the other 3 AMs to deploy in and around the box. Mantzios does this well, but he lacks the killer instinct required to play alone up front.

A 4-2-3-1 system also requires AMs who can do multiple things. They are supposed to fold back to defend, and then very quickly to move forward to support the striker. They need to be "football smart" and to know at all times where they are and where they should be. None of our AMs can play such a complicated game. Or at least they have not played it enough to understand where to be at all times, so their movements are more "thought-out" and "mechanical", resulting to slow development.

3 AMs and 1 striker are supposed to move around to confuse and catch defenders out of position and to create favorable match ups. Unfortunately if it doesn't work, like today, it tends to confuse and frustrate the attacking players themselves. How many times did you see today two players one on top of the other? How many times did you see Roukavina out of the box with no one in the box?

But this is all technical stuff. A lot rides on the psychology too, and the team is in a sad state. They don't have the confidence to overcome adversity. This comes from bad carma in the locker room, and it comes from inexperience as well. Ninis had one bad tackle, one bad back-hill, and after that the ball looked square to him. Roukavina didn't know how to play the lone CF position. He was always out of the box, so we played without a CF for 68 minutes, and Cleyton was as good as invisible.

Ten Cate overestimated his team today. Add to this the bad planning in off season and the bad individual performance by players who are supposed to lift the team and you get a game like today.

Anyway, Olympiakos did play better today, but no need to overgeneralize. Olympiakos had as many horrid games as we did so far. The difference is we always drop points in these games and Olympiakos almost never does.

Olympiakos "in another league" is just wishful thinking. We'll see in our head to head games. :)

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