Basketball - Beijing

[BlueStriker]

Im not keen on people ranting and raving about a team as the best with no gold in 8 years. Is there anybody who finds that unreasonable? Go earn it, come back and I will shake your hand and say they are the best man...

OMG, you are SO anti-American! Why can't you already just anoint them champions?!? :LOL:

Just kidding.

No, seriously though, that might be the most logical post in this entire thread.

[Kolokotronis]

only a gold will settle the arguements....IMO

Big games do matter...I dont think USA will crumble in big games this time, because this year the pressure is on them so they are all big games for them...

I think were going to see a Spain USA final, and only then can we decide...Spain has more experience in pressure, but theyve also not faced USA before. If Spain is on their top game, then USA will have to be on theirs to win.

USA this year is much better than the one in 06. After seeing the differences, its no wonder why could beat them in 06 . One day it will happen again... :gr:

Were still not eliminated and still up for a bronze medal. And since Greece has not even a bronze this olympics, it would be something big. And Greece never got a medal in Olympic Basket (although MundoBasket is virtually same tourney) so start with 1 foot in the door.....

KKtronis - of course we got excited to beat USA and call them omadara.....we beat USA and were going for finals.....live it up man!

Anyways.......the point now is CHINA......tough game being away, but we should definitley win. I saw them play Spain only 2nd half and you really had to wonder how the hell they got in front...

I have one question for you drakos, seeing you're a PAO fan.

Do you believe that Larisa had a better football team than PAO two years ago when they won the Greek Cup?

Yes or No?

[Kolokotronis]

I still think Giannakis does a pretty good job, given the talent he has at his disposal.

Not sure why people are so down on him. We've won a Euro with him at the helm. There's only one other coach that can say the same.

That being said, I wonder why it is when we lose a couple of matches, we're simply "out of form", but when the US loses ONE game in the worlds (by 6, not by 23) in '06, its proof positive they're not the best team in the world?

[Kolokotronis]

Well, which one is it, will they win the gold or not?

Yes or no?

Are they the best, or aren't they?

And if they aren't, who is?

You're starting to sound like the Fos newspaper. If Oly is interested in a player, he's the second coming of Maradona. If he goes elsewhere, they didn't really want him in the first place.

I don't have to prove I'm unilaterally right. Everyone but the Greek "philosophers" agree with me, including the bookmakers.

I've said over and over again that Team USA is a favorite for the gold, but they are not a lock. Do you have trouble reading, perhaps? Unlike you, I don't come to conclusions after three games. Oh, and those bookies...we all know they're never wrong! :rolleyes:

Yes, 35 year old creaky kneed Reggie Miller was an NBA superstar then. LOL!

Pierce couldn't make this years team. Enough said.

Pretty convenient that you picked the oldest guy on the team. Kidd is 35 years old as well and he is on this year's team. Last I checked he hasn't led the Nets anywhere in the past few years either.

Just because Pierce didn't make the team doesn't mean he didn't deserve to make the team. Unless you want to make the argument that Tayshaun Prince is a better player than Pierce. Prince was likely chosen because he is a defensive specialist, whereas the team was already loaded on offense.

Not many 1-4 picks flop.

I've been watching Rose since he was a freshman in high school. He's the best point guard I've seen come out of Chicago, and I went to high school with a guy named Isaiah Thomas. He could play a little bit, you know.

Funny how everybody hypes Ricky Rubio, and Rose is flat out a better player all around. No contest.

The guys they will replace are REPLACABLE parts, not integral members of the team.

Not sure what Garnett or Duncan have anything to do with anything, but if garnett were playing, he would be the best player in the tourney outside of the US guys.

Kwame Brown, Michael Olowokandi, Stromile Swift, Shawn Bradley, Chris Washburn, Danny Ferry, Adam Morrison, Shaun Livingston, Darko Milicic, Jay Williams, Mike Dunleavy Jr., Eddy Curry, Marcus Fizer, Raef LaFrentz, Antonio Daniels, Billy Owens. Do these names ring a bell? This is only a partial list of NBA draft flops, from positions 1-4, and only going back to the 90s.

Garnett, like I mentioned, "retired" from Team USA. Duncan "retired" as well, apparently over the officiating and lack of star treatment he was getting. Who is to say that more players' egos won't get in the way sooner or later?

First and formeost, I was in Athens last year the night PAO beat CSSKA for the Euiropean championship. I was actually staying at my cousins in Pagkrati a few blocks away fromwhere CSSKA's hotel was.

There was NO DOUBT in that game that Diamantidis and Papaloukas were THE MEN on their repsective teams. It was almost a battle of their two wills. So while they might not be at the top tier NBA level, nonetheless, relatively speaking, they're still HUGE stars in their own country and on their own teams.

They're not THE MEN in the same sense as a Kobe, a LeBron, a Chris Paul, or a Dwayne Wade, however. Which isn't diminishing them at all, because I think very highly of both of those guys, they are among my favorites. But they contribute to the team in a different way than those aforementioned NBA superstars.

No, I said that they may run into a team that defeats them in the medal rounds. What is so inconceivable about that? Esu mou les istories gia agrious.

Nonetheless, if you read my posts, you'll see that I say this team is nowhere near hitting on all cylinders, yet IF they play defense as they have so far, it won't matter.

And you're right, ANYTHING can happen in basketball, as in any sport. But to bank on it is a stretch, to say the least. I know you're simply trying to stir the pot a bit, alla auto to teleutaio itan kai ligo xontro. Kopse kati.

I'm not banking on anything. I think my posts have indicated that. If anything, it has been you that has all but given the gold to Team USA already.

You didn't answer the second part of my question-who is the best team in the world?

Kidd made the squad SOLELY to add experience. Not the case with Miller.

Pierce is a very good player, who doesn't play the same position as Prince. Hence your analogy is misguided, to say the least. At his position, Pierce doesn't have a spot on this team.

How are Diamantidis and Papaloukas' roles any different than any of the NBA superstars? How?

I know you said the US may lose in the medal round. To whom, though?

And before people go off the deep end, I also think its possible the US may lose. ANYTHING can happen in a single game, especially for a team that hasn't found its form yet. Yet I'm not going to make the blanket statement it's possible they'll lose in the knockout stage simply because I'm hoping that will be the case. I do so because I find two teams that I believe can knock them off given the right circumstances-Spain and Argentina.

[Crazy]

And he's still the best player on the planet. What you tend to dismiss is that Kobe was winning NBA championships while guys like Papaloukas were battling Marousi and Pagkrati. And don't give me the ole Shack routine. What has he done without Kobe?

Kobe took a mediocre Laker team this year and carried it on his back. The guy that disappeared in the finals due to the physical beating was Gasol. The Celtics are just a flat out better team. No crime in that.

Kobe was not winning those titles by himself,Shaq and many others were there plus a guy called Phill Jackson,(9 titles) and actually Shaq won another ring with Wade and Miami while Kobe has made the finals for the first time this past season.Kobe is a great player and has really accomplished a lot but finally now he starts getting it that the meaning of team is more important that himself.Mediocre Laker team this year???Pau Gasol,Lamar Oldom and Derrick Fisher did nothing???Vujacic won a playoff final game by himself but did nothing??I know you guys try to prove your points and actually win in your arguments but lets not go crazy in here.......

Papaloukas has won everything in Europe and was playing for a non greeck team for the last 5-6 years while doing it....no Pagrati or Marousi in Russia.... :D

[Kolokotronis]

And he's still the best player on the planet. What you tend to dismiss is that Kobe was winning NBA championships while guys like Papaloukas were battling Marousi and Pagkrati. And don't give me the ole Shack routine. What has he done without Kobe?

Kobe took a mediocre Laker team this year and carried it on his back. The guy that disappeared in the finals due to the physical beating was Gasol. The Celtics are just a flat out better team. No crime in that.

Kobe was not winning those titles by himself,Shaq and many others were there plus a guy called Phill Jackson,(9 titles) and actually Shaq won another ring with Wade and Miami while Kobe has made the finals for the first time this past season.Kobe is a great player and has really accomplished a lot but finally now he starts getting it that the meaning of team is more important that himself.Mediocre Laker team this year???Pau Gasol,Lamar Oldom and Derrick Fisher did nothing???Vujacic won a playoff final game by himself but did nothing??I know you guys try to prove your points and actually win in your arguments but lets not go crazy in here.......

Papaloukas has won everything in Europe and was playing for a non greeck team for the last 5-6 years while doing it....no Pagrati or Marousi in Russia.... :D

I was talking about where Papaloukas was when Kobe was winning championships.

Not to take anything away from Papaloukas, he's a damn good player, but the argument cuts both ways.

He was the best player on a CSSKA team last year that simply couldn't get it done in the final. Does that make him a failure? Of course not.

Just like losing this years final to the Celts is not a reflection on Kobe. The Celtics were simply a better team.

Funny how Kobe is a selfish p@#$k when the Lakers lose, but everybody is mum when the Lakers were winning three straight.

As far as the Heat go, that was all Dwayne Wade my man, all Dwayne Wade.

Derek Fisher and Vujacic are ROLE PLAYERS. Nothing more, nothing less.

Odom is a nice player, but he's not Garnett or Pierce.

The Lakers had so so talent and were still a top the West last year, primarily due to Kobe. Gasol came late in the year, and actually did squat in the playoffs.

And Papaloukas may have won everything in Europe, but not on the big stage known as the NBA. Whole different ballgame there.

[drakos13]

I still think Giannakis does a pretty good job, given the talent he has at his disposal.

Not sure why people are so down on him. We've won a Euro with him at the helm. There's only one other coach that can say the same.

That being said, I wonder why it is when we lose a couple of matches, we're simply "out of form", but when the US loses ONE game in the worlds (by 6, not by 23) in '06, its proof positive they're not the best team in the world?

Losing one game is not really the same as "not winning an entire tournament", its not like I don't see the point your trying to make, I just don't agree with it. Football and PAO issues Im not going into - its too different.

To be honest this USA is miles better than the last one. The last one was not the best, that I seriously beleive it was not as good as Greece that tournament, nor definitly not as good as Spain in 2006. Its a team thing, not collection of talent. They only lost 1 game, but hell Greece only lost 1 game too. Not even making a final in last 3 tournaments doesnt make you the best team.

Being on form when it counts is a big part of being the best, in my personal opinion.

I think you mean USA has the best infrastructure, talent pool etc. Well yes, of course its true. Unless you want to tell me I said otherwise, which at this point, I wont be too suprised if you do. But a team is different.

Give it a rest, why do you seriously care so much over the technicality of what I think should be heralded as "the best" man. Its two personal opinions here. Well wait and see who wins.

Giannakis has seen the team in some brilliant and some pitiful showings to be honest. Some great, and some very low. Its tough. He got a Euro, but the talent has been much better than in the 90s too. Its true about the silverware hes gotten us, cant deny that. But then showings like 2004 in Athens were very disappointing, and so was Euro 2007 were we simply god-awful. He probably wont go anywhere, but when a better option comes up, take it.

[Nick99]

The US has the quickest and fastest guards on the planet. No contest.

Yeah, but what about on the moon with its 1/6 gravity? Or Jupiter and all the hot gases, maybe they'll all need masks like Hamilton? Can Kobe take the heat on Mercury or does he need an asbestos suit which will surely slow him down?

-----

Here's a tip: turn off the idiot box for like... 12 seconds. It'll do you some good, trust me. If anything, you might sound less like a pathetic devotee of every douchebag sports announcer whose bullshit inundates the airwaves down there, usually while deifying just about every USA athlete.

You are a devoted amerikanokavlo. OK, we get it. We got it before reading past the 8th syllable of your first post here. Get over yourself already. Eisai poly thima file; vres zoi... kai grigora, sou to lew gia to kalo sou...

[paxiotis7]

Dont forget kidd^ He isnt quick

The thing about the american guards is that they are not TRUE guards other than Kidd, the slowest one out of all of them. What I mean by a true guard is someone that completly controls the play and sets up everything. Theyre more like shooting guards and scoring guards. REAL guards are players like steve nash, Tony Parker, Jose Calderon etc. Players like Bryant arent really guards but are sooo talented that its better to kinda put them in that position because they see more of the ball. Imo out of every country in this tournament greece have probablly the best set of four PURE guards. I know spanoulis, and zizis arent as pure guards as kid or something, but they are better than average playmakers. The reason why the states are so good is because theyre forwords. No country in the world comes remotly close to the states when it comes to forwords. Lebron vs Vassilpoulos? No doubt whos the better foreword.

Imo the speed of the guard is not THAT important as your making it to be. The guard should be the play maker. Not if your talking about the speed of a forwword thats a different story. THats where the americans are gonna get you

[Genome]

Anyone have a clue when and where (which channel) this is going to be played? Site says 9:00, so I guess that's 3:00 in Greece, but on which channel? Can't find it anywere.

[Genome]

Found this just now, fully legal, by NBC:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/index.html

to watch the game live now!

[Genome]

Or if you don't live in the US this works internationally:

http://www.eurovisionsports.tv/olympics/

click channel 8 that's where our game is being shown right now. Also 100% legal!

We're up 43-28 atm. (we're past the 2nd quarter)

[Crazy]

Anyone have a clue when and where (which channel) this is going to be played? Site says 9:00, so I guess that's 3:00 in Greece, but on which channel? Can't find it anywere.

It is 4:00 am in greece,and it is on NET.

[Genome]

Cool, thanks crazy!

I'm watching through the above stream atm but with no comments of course (only sounds). I'ma switch to NET right now :), thanks!

[Genome]

Good game so far. Don't know much about basket but Bourousis looks :tup:

We're at 70-37 atm ... :).

[Genome]

81-42,

end of third quarter... three points away from doubling their score ... :)!

[Genome]

End of the game,

Greece 102 - 61 Angola. :tup:

[PurelyAcademic]

Kolokotroni, by your own logic, since you like to compare point differentials (which are meaningless), just now we beat Angola by +41. Team USA beat them by +23. That makes us better than Team USA, right? Or does that logic only apply when the Ethniki loses or Team USA wins?

Yes, unprecedented heights.

23 pontous papara apo tous Amerikanous kai 18 ponto kavli apo tous Ispanous.

:LOL:  :LOL:  :LOL:

I think this shows where your allegiances (and your maturity) lie, as does:

Right.

And I'm the Pope of Rome.

:LOL:  :LOL:  :LOL:

To poly tiki taka vlaptei to myalo.

Belittling and insulting anyone who disagrees with you. That's a great way to make your argument and to be taken seriously.

Funny how you accuse everyone here of having an "excuse" for the Ethniki when they lose, when it has been you that has been full of excuses for Team USA's performance in 2006, 2004 and 2002.

[PurelyAcademic]

Or if you don't live in the US this works internationally:

http://www.eurovisionsports.tv/olympics/

click channel 8 that's where our game is being shown right now. Also 100% legal!

We're up 43-28 atm. (we're past the 2nd quarter)

I've made a section on my website also featuring Olympic streams, including the legal ones from NBC, BBC, Eurovisionsports, etc., as well as streams from Greece for NET, ET-1, ET-3, etc. (watch at your own risk!). http://www.media.net.gr/livesports.htm

If anyone is familiar with any stream/link that is missing feel free to let me know and I'll update the page.

[loup]

Anyone know the tiebraker rules?

Nice win

[Kolokotronis]

Dont forget kidd^ He isnt quick

The thing about the american guards is that they are not TRUE guards other than Kidd, the slowest one out of all of them. What I mean by a true guard is someone that completly controls the play and sets up everything. Theyre more like shooting guards and scoring guards. REAL guards are players like steve nash, Tony Parker, Jose Calderon etc. Players like Bryant arent really guards but are sooo talented that its better to kinda put them in that position because they see more of the ball. Imo out of every country in this tournament greece have probablly the best set of four PURE guards. I know spanoulis, and zizis arent as pure guards as kid or something, but they are better than average playmakers. The reason why the states are so good is because theyre forwords. No country in the world comes remotly close to the states when it comes to forwords. Lebron vs Vassilpoulos? No doubt whos the better foreword.

Imo the speed of the guard is not THAT important as your making it to be. The guard should be the play maker. Not if your talking about the speed of a forwword thats a different story. THats where the americans are gonna get you

You're talking about the difference between a point guard and an off guard.

Chris Paul is a point guard, so is Jason Kidd.

Kobe and Dwayne Wade are off guards.

Deron Williams is a combo guard.

Both 1's and 2's are guards. I don't know of any team in the world that plays with just one guard.

Some play with 2, others play with three, but nobody plays with just one.

There is nobody on Greece's roster that compares to Chris Paul.

Spanoulis is an undersized combo guard. Nowhere near a pure point or playmaker. His greatest attribute is his ability to penetrate, not pass.

Diamantidis is an oversized point who is an excellent passer and can see over the top of defenses. Nonetheless, he's not the penetrator who can collapse a defense. And he'll have a ton of trouble against quicker lead guards defensively.

Papaloukas is a physical point guard who's more of a prototype, but at this stage of his career, he's not top shelf. And even at his bet, he still isn't Chris Paul.

In any event, not one Greek guard could crack the quartet of Bryant, Paul, Williams, and Wade. They are simply not at that level. That doesn't mean they aren't good players, just that they're not NBA superstar level, which the other 4 are.

Ideally, you're point guard should be your quickest player, not only to defend the other teams point, but also to dribble penetrate. While it isn't necessariily a prerequisite (see Magic Johnson), it sure as hell helps (see Isaiah Thomas) and is the norm.

[PurelyAcademic]

Anyone know the tiebraker rules?

Nice win

I think that it is the record versus the other teams that are tied. So if it's two teams with the same record, it's whoever won in their head-to-head matchup. If it's three or more teams, it's each team's record versus the other tied teams. If there's still a tie, I believe it then goes by total point differential for each of the tied teams.

[BlueStriker]

What a nice man..........

[PurelyAcademic]

Defending Euro champion Russia is the biggest disappointment of the tournament so far. 1-2 coming into today's match with Australia (who is also 1-2 after beating Iran), and in the 3rd quarter, Australia leads 65-49.

Edit: Australia wins 95-80. Things look tough for Russia who is now in 5th place, while Australia now enters the picture as a contender for the 2nd-4th place spots.

[drakos13]

This is ridiculous.

Mods: Cant Kolokotronis vs Phantis be discussed in another thread???

Greece beats Angola 102-61 today :whistle: :gr: :D