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Greece: The Next Generation


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Ok, So were not out of Euro technically, but of what weve seen we know that a generation is coming to an end. Or at least it should be.

I'd just like to open this topic, for some optimism and for us to be looking at Greek NT in general and not be overly focused on what happens in this tournament bad or good, but for the future, which I beleive is bright, and we need to bring it in.

We have signed Otto till 2010 - which I do beleive could be a mistke, but it could also be a mistake to let him go completly with such an easy qualifying group for the WC. To make it to the WC would be a good accomplishment. The group is easy, but to other teams its easy and their best ever shot at going to a WC - Israel for example this could be thier best opportunity ever.

Looking at the team last night, we see a few new faces, but its trying to be the same team. We look like we are in between generations - in a rebuilding stage where there is a gap of our upcoming talent and experienced still have miles in them.

There will be a day where we will have no more real remnants of the 2004, in players and character, and the building of this generation to come is what this thread is for.

I personally feel we have some things to be excited for, the youth u19 european championships showed we have talent last year, and theyll be playing again this year.

We have players who are yet to make to fully make their mark like Ninis, Xristodoulopoulos, Makos, Dimoutos, Giannis and Avraam Papadopoulos, Mitroglou, Petropoulos, Rikka, Tzorvas etc - and some of the older young players like Torosidis, Spiropoulos, Tziolis, Kone etc

And then we have other crops of youth players who go sour and make nothing - anybody remember the Kapetanos brothers, Xaris Pappas?

So what do people think? When should we fully be another "generation" of NT players? Who will be our leaders of the future? Will we be the same character as 2004 ?

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we got no keepers halkias is worse than nikopolidis tzorvas is 26 and never played we don't give young players a chance to see if they got what it takes

defensively what happens if dellas and antzas don't retire will otto continue to pick them ?

in midfield giannakopoulos basinas karagounis are all over 30 tziolis doesn't look good enough. who plays in midfield ??? patza is not good enough either torosidis may be an option but who else ?

atleast we got decent forwards :tup:

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Halkias and Nikopolidis arent the future, in fact they really should be retired after tournament. The sooner we get some experience in the others the better

Tzorvas is a PAO youth, who did well for OFI this season, good enough to get called up. He played a bit in friendlies and was good.

We also have Sifakis, who is Nikopolidis backup, and again, Greek goalkeeping of course wont go anywhere till Nikopolidis mans up and retires internationally, and even OSFP will start giving Sifakis the spot.

Andriolas was a youth keeper, just transfered to Panionios who were strong last season. He should get his opportunity to really break through there, and maybe weve got ourself another keeper for the ethniki too.

And Kotsolis is solid enough to fill in for a while. These keepers arent that bad, and on their good days can match any above average Nikopolidis performance.

Keepers will emerge - im not worried about that..

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apparently PAOK signed Chalkias though......

Unless theyre selling Fernandez, I have no idea why theyd start Xalkias.

I mean I like Xalkias - but if the only way to keep him out of starting spot with Greece is benching at PAOK then so be it. Id love for him to be starting but his intl career is over.

Kara and Katsouranis can stay , but Basinas is done. Great service and career, but time to let the new generations set in. Likewise with Giannakopoulos, Nikopolidis, Dellas, Xalkias, Gkoumas and Lyberopoulos.

Not that Lybe and Gkoumas cant play, but its not just about being able to throw in a few more games, its about letting the others step in, and creating the new team. Otto will use players well up till they are all 37 - the players have to take the responsibility and let us develop.

Also Im hoping not only for Kiliaras, but Dimoutsos.

Dimoutsos can play on the left, and hes a workhorse, quick and pretty good on the ball. He was 19 this year, and when Ivanschitz out in the early season still was one of PAO's better players. He could be a great player for us.

Ninis is going to be a star, if this new coach makes the most of him at PAO, we could see him at clubs no Greek has ever played for. Hes fragile, but hes quick, intelligent passer and has a right attitude. If PAO get in the CL, it will also be big for his career.

PAO having a monopoly on Greece's best young talent, is going to be big too. As a PAO fan I beleive this more so, but its really not far fetched.

For Greece's perspective, hopefully the transfer season wont see Greece's players pushed to the sidelines. Petropoulos, Tziolis, Ninis, Dimoutsos, Siontis (whos going to Larisa - could get first team which would be great).

If PAO hit great form with these players, it would greatly infleunce the Greek national team.

Just like in 2004 era, PAO's recent succeses in Europe were not unrelated to the rise of players like Seitaridis, Basinas, Nikopolidis, Fyssas, Karagkounis etc...

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Well hopefully Xalkias is dropped anyways. Its time for someone new, end of story. Kotsolis, Tzorvas, and Sifakis can do it. If Sifakis takes Nikopolidis spot with Gavros then were gonna be fine. Karnezis will be a while for PAO, but he is also a great youth keeper.

To be honest, who is in goal is not a major concern of mine. The right goalkeeper will come up, and Kotsolis is perfectly capable for the time being.

Again, Nikopolidis has to retire on his own. He has to realize when is when to stop, and let the team advance. Xalkias the same. Other wise do not be suprised if we all these older players still on the team in 2 years (make or not make the WC)

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Well while I was thinking about this topic.....I was looking up a bit about PAO's new signing, Cleyton Silva......

One thing I did notice is that he has a GREEK passport now.

So the question:

Weve seen Cleyton do particularly well in the Greek league and become a top talent, and is finally moving to one of the big teams in the league. If Cleyton succeeds yet again and is still one of the top players for the league ------

What would everybody think of calling of Clayton in the future ???

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Time to look at the next generation.

Half the team MUST BE REPLACED before the WC qualifications and maybe more.

Remember....the WC is tougher to qualify for and realistically Greece should look forward to the next European Cup.

If Otto is to remain he has to make the tough decision of letting guys go.






There are just a few of the player that come to mind.

Thanks for the Euro 2004 but we need the NINIS of the world to take over now.

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Yes, a lot of guys have to go... But how about we get rid of Otto? He doesn't seem to be the guy able to pick a winning composition and system for our National Team. His contribution was well defined in time. He has nothing to contribute.

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I watched the two final u-19 games last year and there was some real talent on the squad, they played head to head with the Spaniards and held their own with respect to skill

In general there is some real "talent" coming up or already here:








Samaras is still young so is Tsilois and Tsorvas from our current squad

Kats and Giorkas should contniue to play if they have the heart


and I havent seen much of him but if I'm not mistaken Makos is the captain of Panionios, that is a great honour for a kid his age

we need a keeper from a major team, with experience in Europe, something Tsorvas does not have

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not everybody needs to go. some are off form.


I think the EPO should step in and warn Rehagel - not for performance, but rather to kickstart our next generation - take my word for it, the longer we linger trying to just keep these guys playing the longer it will take to get the next batch ready. Its time for some risk and sacrifice out there.

Charisteas is not too old. However hes past his prime. He shouldnt be a guaranteed spot, he has to earn it. Other than these nitpicky selections, Otto is doing fine and should stay.

Basinas, Dellas, Nikopolidis, Giannakopoulos need to man up and retire. We are so proud of them, but its just another generations time is all and thiers is up. They will forever be in the history books for what they did - now let the next generation go and make their own history. Its only fair.

Charisteas has no reason to quit. Once he comes back to form, come back to the team. But it has to be earned again.

Lybe is the man, but his spot needs to go to a younger player now too. He doesnt have another tournament left in him.

Chalkias - is done.

Karagkounis will be useful we should keep him around. Hes got years left, only 31.

Katsouranis is still of good age and good form in Benfica - he should absolutley be the role model for this team, in experience, and is also a great leader. Its his time to captain a team of younger players into Greece's future. Nobody more perfect a selection than Katsouranis, his age is just right, hes a good player, good heart, and knows the teams history.

A more perfect captain for the new generation does not exist.

Its not just the starters that need to step down, remember that. And its not as a criticsm, but we need to start making the new team - period.









and even Kafes needs to not take call ups anymore.

My suggested replacements (not neceasarily to go in starting lineup, just "bump" up the roster:


Sifakis (Tzorvas)






Avraam/ Lagos (if regains form)

As for keepers:

You just need to have a bit more faith. Kotsolis and Tzorvas are a lot more capable then they are credited for. Also experience is the "excuse" but thats garbage. Tzorvas sees plenty of difficult shots, as does Kotsolis both being at the crap end of their teams too.

Kotsolis had a prolonged european run in UEFA and did great. He has worked with Nikopolidis years, had starting at AEL , and he cant possibly do any worse than Nikopolidis. Kotsolis is a great keeper, underated, and the more hes played, the more valuable experience he will gain. The more Adonis is played the more opportunistic experience is lost for other keepers. Starting Kotsolis is hardly a risk in comparison to Nikopolidis and more is stood to gain from Kotsolis playing. Theres a very high chance of errors anyways with Adonis in goal - Id actually say the chance is LESS with Kotsolis, and at WORST the same. And if theyre the same risk, then might as well put the one in who will benefit!

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ok, im still hyper, and have nothing to do and cant stop thinking about the future of this team. we have an exciting future and i cant wait for transers and even superleague to begin. :LOL:

I invite all to participate building this "greek youth resource", and im a bit surprised not much interest shown in what the team of the future is gonna look like - this team is history, its in between generations, weve got to accept that.

Id like to go over who the "future" is in and remind people of what we have to look forward to and get to know a bit more about some of the players I dont know alot about but others may. So lets go over who weve got to look forward to, a big list - some players like PAOKs athaniadis i just threw in the list but dont know much about. Again, if fans who know more want to add about these players, or players that arent on, please do!

Here's my "watchlist" for Greece's future team:


Sotiris Ninis (18) (PAO) - could be one of Greece's first intl mega stars if develops correctly. With incredible performances in Derbies even as a 16 year old, a goal on hist international debut - and a great patient attitude that he has - he can go QUITE far. Granted PAOK, AEK, OSFP hate him, but accept it, if hes a major star, you will love him in Blue and White.

Ellin Dimoutsos (19) (PAO) - a very mature player already, hes 19, and hes already a pro for PAO. He was better than most PAO players when he was featuring in the begining of the season. Physical, talented on the ball, Dimoutsos got a bit forgotten with PAO, but hes another top prospect from Epirus.

Mixalis Pavlis (18) (AEK) - striker, got a goal and 5 apps for AEK - will be lleading U19 striker, lets see how he does

Giannis Papadopoulos (19) (OSFP) - OSFP paid nearly a million for this teenager from Iraklis who is a CM. Hes supposed to be really good, again any comments about the player do give, I dont know much about him.

Stefanos Athanasiadis (19) (PAOK) - look up his goals on youtube. they were both in 1 game, but they were real beauties..seems very talented. Lets hope...

Young 20's (20-24)

Giorgos Samaras (23) (Celtic FC) - had a great run at Heerenveen, made it to the EPL and now after loss of form is in the SPL. If he can find some consistency, hell be a great player. But consistency will be difficult for him. One of Greece's most expensive transfers (for a greek player)

Sokratis Papastathopoulos (20) (AEK) - great performance vs Milan as a teenager, hes a great defender, tough, has some to learn still but hell be up there.

Avraam Papadopoulos (22) (ARIS) - been a big prospect for years..... a move to AEK, OSFP, PAO or even abroad should come this summer - but he resigned another 4 years with Aris. Bad career choice, at least for us NT fans.

Kostas Mitroglou (20) (OSFP) - big prospect from Germany, well take him. all i know about him is that he can score goals and finish. OSFP fans can say more.

Giorgos Galitsios (21) (OSFP) - one of the biggest prospects for our defense, who is actually kind of forgotten about i feel. Great few seasons with AEL, I honeslty never realized he was so young. Hell be starting for ethniki Ellados in a year my guess :tup:

Lazaros Xristodoulopoulos (21) (PAOK)- linked to Liverpool a while back, and 2 seasons ago with PAOK looked fantastic, I was shocked to find out hes a teenager. His pending transfer to PAO fell through, and this is horrible news because the player could go up a full level with an attacking coach like Ten Cate, and an exciting "new" squad. I hope he moves to a bigger team this summer, it will be better for Greece.

Antonios Rikka (22) (AEK) - just trasnfered from Xanthi, going to be partnering Papastathopoulos in CB with AEK - thats good news for Greece. good defender, half french half greek i beleive, and the sooner he partners Sokratis the better ..... we could have our 2 top CB's of the future in AEK.

Dimitris Kiliaras (22)-(PANIONIOS) midfielder with ergotelis, creates and finishes goals. He was a big transfer for Panionios, and his development could step up from there.

Kostas Mendrinos (23) (OSFP)- CM played a lot for OSFP this year. Cant give much comment on him, I dont really watch OSFP games unless theyre against PAO or AEK and i dont think he featured in them.

Vassilis Torosidis (23) (OSFP) - already a starting player, and a great prospect for the team. Not much needs to be said, this young player has already made it as part of Greece's next generation !

Panagiotis Kone (20) (AEK) - talented midfielder long said to be a big prospect for AEK

Alex Tziolis (23) (PAO) - already on the team, but a player who should get better partnering Mattos. Hes not a favourite, but he can be a backup, and his development is certainly not done yet.

Sotiris Leontiou (23) (PAO) - last summer Leontiou was playing amazing for PAO, and that terrible injury could seriously hurt his career. If he recovers, hell still have trouble as PAO are going shopping this season, but he was a big prospect at PAO and last we saw him, he was suprisingly a new player, and lets hope he finds his self with PAO, as he could definitly be useful for the NT.

Nikos Spyropoulos (24) (PAO) - found form recently and got his move to PAO, will be there a while. Second best to Toro, but a player of the future generation for sure, might put up some competition for the spot for sure.

Clayton Silva (23) (PAO) - heres a crazy thought. The player is a creative spark we simply dont have and is a good age. He is Brazilian with a Greek passport now,and

Im pretty sure Brazil wont be interested. If he hits top form with PAO and drives them forward - I say its something to think about for the future. We dont have a lot of offensive/creative mids like him, and he could fill in a huge gap.

Adonis Petropoulos (22) (PAO) - Tall forward, powerful, and can finish. Made a name as a teenager with Xaidari and as a U21 player and scored on his Aigaleo debut vs PAO. Played with OFI and did very well second half of season.

Grigoris Makos (22) (Panionios) - has been playing since he was 18 and a very strong player. Going to get even better, and could be Katsouranis's partner in DM not too far from now, especially if the player lands a big trasnfer.

Stelios Illiadis (22) (PAOK) - big signing for PAOK at 18, hes a pretty solid DM, but I think he should move - soon for his own benefit (and Greece's)

Panos Lagos (22) (AEK) - big player since a teen, hopefully gets better with AEK and we could see him back in the NT. Id like to hear what AEK fans think of him.

Christos Melissis (22) (PAOK) - solid defender, already gotten call ups so Otto has noticed him.


Iosif Daskalakis (25) (ERGOTELIS) - a "young" keeper 25 for Ergotelis had a strong season. If he continues, he might develop into a special keeper, possibly a backup for the future.

Alex Tzorvas (25) (OFI) - been 3rd choice at PAO a while, youth product finally getting his first team play with OFI - impressed Otto enough to pick him up as a 3rd over Kotsolis.

Mixalis Sifakis (23) (OSFP) - OSFP's next in line, great with OFI, a start for him at OSFP could see the much needed end of Nikopolidis era.

Orestis Karnezis (22) (PAO) - PAO's 22 year old said to be a big prospect. Hell be #3 but IMO he should be #2 real fast. hes shown too little to judge him off of, but when he played he did well. Maybe a loan spell to another Superleague club and him and Sifakis are #1 and #2 in 2 years.

Kostas Andriolas (23) (PANIONIOS) - recently signed for Panionios, didnt get the chances he deserved over Mixailidis at Atromitos, this move is his big chance - either he makes it or flops, as a teen he looked very talented.


Dimitris Giantsis (20) (IRAKLIS)

Giannis Maniatis (21) (PANIONIOS)

Sotiris Balafas (21) (PAOK)

Stefanos Siontis (20) (PANATHINAIKOS)

Vassilis Pliastikas (20) (AEK)

Nikos Arabatzis (21) (PAOK)

Dimitris Pliagkas (23) (OFI)

Ilias Kyriakidis (22) (AE LARISA)

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I like those prospects, but they have to be developed carefully under a new coach... I don' t know if Otto will stay. (didn't he just signed another contract extending his tenure until the World Cup?)

Look, I can't believe that other countries of similar size (or even smaller) to Greece have been able to play so much better. What is Croatia doing? Do they have a better national league than GR?

Reinventing the wheel isn't practical, and borrowing ideas (better ones) is how humanity has advanced. It seems to me that we have ..squares for wheels right now. Time to redisign the national vehicle.

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Thanks so much for that post! :tup:

However, I will repeat: wholesale changes will get us 0-5 scores at this point. Younger players need to be gradually blended in with those regulars we will keep - for the time being. ;)

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clearly it wont be wholesale...new generation takes time......some of these players well see soon, others maybe in 4 years...What happens for their club careers is gonna be important for us.

but some of them like Ninis, Makos, Galitsios, X-doulopoulos, Papastathopoulos, Rikka can come in much faster than expected. In fact I expect Galitsios to make his first caps by December if he starts for OSFP.

Also - being part of the team can just mean called up to trainings, taken as subs or back up too. Its going to be gradual but look for yourself, we have talent.

And good news:

2 players already stepped down, Nikopolidis, and Antzas are done with the NT

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Not sure if I agree with adding in youth on a gradual basis. You do that with teams that are on the verge of winning big. Greece has taken a few steps backwards.

Look at the Detroit Pistons of the NBA. They lost in the conference finals for the 3rd year in a row. They are a really good team but they didn't make it to the finals and what is the General Manager doing:

He just came out and said that there are going to be major changes and nobody's position is safe. Not one player!!!

This is the type of attitude that the Greek national team manager has. Sure some guys will be kept but new blood must be brought in and the old leaders can only be support players now.

I've said in another post that half team must go but if the others don't earn the place then they must go also.

Greece is in a new era of football and we can thank the Euro2004 for that. Expectations are higher and the era of having a decent team once every 25 years is gone. Fans stay in touch with the team via the internet and wonder why Germany, Italy, Holland,Portugal, Croatia, Czech Rep, Sweden and France can change the majority of their roster every 4 years and still have a solid team.

Again expectations are higher and so they should be.

I'm looking forward to the future but the future has to be allowed to play on the field.

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why Germany, Italy, Holland,Portugal, Croatia, Czech Rep, Sweden and France can change the majority of their roster every 4 years and still have a solid team.

thats the difference between a good footballing nation and a good footballing team.....04 team was a very good footballing team produced by a mediocre footballing nation.....this disconnect needs to be navigated where the correlation becomes direct......

i think we have seen that there is a small difference between being eliminated in the first round and advancing.....this small differnece is a mixture of:

1. expectations - believing you belong on the same field as anyone and can win....

2. pride and respect for your own skills, work ethic & national team jersey

3. coach: one that can maintain continuity, unity and selfless dedication to the team...and who can evaluate properly what the talent is and put theplayers in the best position to win.....

4. support form govt. etc : youth programs that push skill levels....

5. and of course talent: talent is a very elusive word....but skill levels that other teams fear/respect and that we can execute consistently on the pitch...

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I think Croatia and Greece are a good reference to what we can do.

For one, they have generations.

Croatia in 1998 had a golden generation

Croatia in 2002/Euro 2004 era? Aged, best young prospects still not ready to play on the big stage. 2006 also, but 2008 they have a new generatoin of players and theyre great - in fact semi-finalist great.

(they will play czech or turkey, and they can absolutley go to the semi's)

NT's go through good and bad spells...... WC 2002-2004 - what happened to France? their team was old, their best youth players hadnt arrived on the scene yet....2006 they had a good run, better than expected and was the last push for their own old timers. 2008 is still carrying over large parts of their old team and thats their weakness.....

NT is very much a generational thing....it goes through ups and downs is my point.

The sooner we clean up the old men who dont have the next tournament left in them, the sooner we can get started on a newer team and get them experience.

We have what mangas21 listed. Its time to put it to the test. Do I think we have another Euro winning future in our books ? Likley not for a while. Do I think we can make a quarterfinal in the WC or Euro, YES...we need to get going though - and a large part of the NT future is dependent on these players' club careers.

PAO just offered again to Lazaros, IMO this is great news for Greece is he comes to PAO, with Ten Cate as coach, hell become a more dynamic attacker and reach his potential. Every year at PAOK is a year lost for the kid.

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It's good that Nikopolidis and Antzas have retired from the squad.

I think guys like Basinas, Goumas, Giannakopoulos, Vyntra, Dellas, Karagounis, Charisteas will all be gone by the time WC2010 rolls around (and yes we will qualify). "Perimeter players" like Lybe, Salpignidis, Patsa, and Chalkias are no guarantees either.

I just pray that guys like Ninis and Papastathopoulos can fulfill their potential and truly develop into the stars we're all craving.

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Otto should have a look at Turkey to learn tactics.

The players should have a look at the Turkish team to see spirit and effort.

After this how can we be kind to our players when they are judged in comparison with other professional players in the same competition? Disgraceful! I am furious!!

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Wow re drakos13 maybe the EPO should have you sitting next to Otto...I'll bet top$ he has no clue who 90% of the players you listed ...well done....now with all these names more time googling who these kids are!!

well.....I am looking to leave my current job ....


as for Turkey. Greece is not Turkey . Greece played with heart, but it didnt happen. Russia, Sweden, Spain are really tough sides.


Turkey, not to discredit them, came out with absolutley no heart or belief vs Portugal, and it was totally shocking to see them give up.

vs Switzlerland, they were ok and had the better......vs Czech they had a spririted last 20 mins, but the rest of the game they were being totally outclassed. Czech had 2 goals and 2 brilliant oportunities in the second half that could have finished the Turks off, add that, a goalkeeper blunder and after that Czechs are too shellshocked to recover. It was an incredible comeback, but the Czech collpase was also a factor. Turkey did not give up this time which was great and they got the breaks that set them through. We didnt give up, and we got screwed by Nikopolidis, the refs, and just didnt have it in us. Its football.

Dont ever say this team doesnt know about heart spirit and effort. this team, coach know more about heart than anyother team to exist in the last 30 years, afterall they did go all the way to being european champions, no "nobody" team wins that without heart. Greece has the heart of lions, and they gave their best, its disgraceful you go and mock them saying they should look to the Turks who mainly got the result as a Czech breakdown anyways.

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I think Croatia and Greece are a good reference to what we can do.

For one, they have generations.

Croatia in 1998 had a golden generation

Croatia in 2002/Euro 2004 era? Aged, best young prospects still not ready to play on the big stage. 2006 also, but 2008 they have a new generatoin of players and theyre great - in fact semi-finalist great.

(they will play czech or turkey, and they can absolutley go to the semi's)

i think this is just too optimistic.

certain nations like brazil only need to reload after a generation of talented footballers time has come, other nations - say a denmark, need to rebuild when the same happens to them.

i'm not sure where greece fits into this. it certainly can't 'reload', greece has no extra bullets in the chamber. it's youth infrastruture and club player developement are woeful, nowhere near croatia's time-tested formula and competant football infrastructure.

having very good u-21 sides doesn't translate to definate men's national team future success. i think greece produces athletic/strong footballers, but they lack top technical and tactical skills that seperate the contenders from the pretenders - as evidenced at the euro. not sure what croatia's overall u-21/u-19 record is, but i know serbia u-21 finished runners-up for 2002-2004 (italy champs) and 2004-2006 (holland champs) and where is the serbia national side today?

a greek u-21 international may be the equivalent raw talent-wise or stronger physically than an italian u-21 international, but the years between 20-23 where technique is fully sharpened and off the ball tactics are hammered home by quality coaching - the gap is the length of the solar system as far as how the italian is nutured by it's club side and how the greek is nurtured by his club side.

by the time those same players are 25-26, we know who would usually win an italy x greece football match at a tournament.

i hope i'm wrong, but i agree with many older greek footballers who have left greece to play abroad and their advice to young greek talent - GET AWAY FROM GREECE.

i don't want to get into my own theories about greece/corruption/greediness...but, turkey has spent the money for the classy club academies and coaches that produce quality, technically-gifted footballers. remember, england beat turkey 8-0 during the 1990's, i believe. what is greece's excuse?

greece is a small nation? ok, maybe 3 times the size of croatia or equal to holland. epo and the greek club sides don't give a flying banana peel about little spiro growing up in australia rooting for his greek heroes. their function as entities are not to give, but to take.

they take money and give back sub-standard players and overall league play.

greeks growing up in the diaspora just can't fathom this...they see their own uncle niko working 14 hours a day, aunt garifalia working and cooking and cleaning. they think all greeks in greece are like this, honest and hard-working. the greeks in power in greece are the reason why uncle niko and aunt garifalia left greece in the first place, because money doesn't want to be shared in greece by the people that have it.

they are liars and scumbags - the worst residue of the sultan's ass. they are the ones that keep greece behind in certain areas - and last year's league is just another example.

what is croatia's time tested formula?

Their youth teams? Their domestic league? those are AWFUL. Greek people are so bad - do you know any Croatians??! You think THEY dont have these problems times 10?

Croatia has some big name players selling big etc, becuase players from fomer Yugoslavia partic Croatia have made names for themselves in the past. More clubs look their to raid talent. Look how many Croatians are abroad now...

Greece will slowly follow the same pattern. Croatia has one run in 98, some great players and theyre a name to be taken seriously, not always top in the world, but Croatia is a solid european team, much like Greece who has been in top 16 of europe twice last 2 Euros and shocked the world with Euro 2004.

The point Im making is we DO have the bullets to reload on. Greek football wont end with Nikopolidis, Dellas, Basinas etc...theres more to come.

If you look at Greece from a wider timeline, theres actually a lot of room for optimism.

We always gage abroad as the high standard for our players, and thats fine... Greece has built a strong link with Germany recently, and that looks like it will be staying. Otto Rehagel, greek succeses in the league, and now were seeing more suitors from Bundesliga for Greek league players and greeks in the transfer market.

I mean honeslty, compared to 4 years ago how many Greek players are abroad? Its near doubled. Are German talent scouts watching Superleague - yes, were exporting more players than I can ever remember to bigger leagues, and bigger names than ever coming into Greece - how is that not something to be optimistic about? In the last 2 years weve seen at least 10 players move to the Bundesliga from Superleague. If thats not a sign that the talents are finally watching and will certainly keep an eye on our even better talents, than what is?

When was the last time that many Greek league players (products too) are moving abraod to bigger leagues so regularly?

Were going to have more faces abroad, more stars etc. The odds are much better than the past, because the amount of players is so much higher.

You know, you wonder how teams like Czechs, Croatians, Swedes, taken so seriously when they have such abysmal national leagues, easily inferior to the Superleague. Why do they seem to have so much talent? Its because they have good reputations with ceratin leagues. Croatians are more widely saught after, and the Czechs are so many of them developed in Germany.

Also as for Greece a small nation:

Reality is, yes Greece is a small country. Its 11 million people. Thats small . land mass has nothing to do with it. Compared to rest of Europe, this is small.

As for the stuff about corruption - this has nothing to do with football man.

Everythign in free market is done in name of money...money doesnt want to be shared, becuase its thiers and they worked for it. Why on earth do you think they move to USA, Australia, Canada etc for??????? they go so they can make more money and keep more of it. Thats absolute fact. Dont bring "people in Greece" into this as blaming football, its not related. And honestly with the exception of Amanatidis and Mitroglou, all the Greek diaspora sucks ass at football, so I dont want to go into the battle of diaspora vs how awful the Greeks from Greece are thats just garbage talk for the Greek diaspora to feel better about themselves for their own complex of not being "full Greek" as far as I am concerned.

Academies being related to greedy people is kind of silly man. Academies are not charity organizations they are flat INVESTMENTS. PAO has a very strong youth academy, this is a fact. Fenerbahce also has one, and Fenerbahce has a fan base more than the entire population of Greece, so lets be proportianate, they also have a budget as high as many major european teams.

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