Greece v. Sweden @ Euro 2008

[DUDE]

- i was looking forward to your grades on the players.

Ok, well using the method I'm used to in grading:

1-3 = You should stop playing football you waste of perfectly good oxygen.

4 = Abysmal.

5 = Poor

6 = Average

7 = Good

8 = Very good

9 = Superb/ match-winner.

10 = World Class performance.

I'd grade them like this:

Nikopolidis = 4: He seemed shaky throughout and apart from the good save just before the 2nd goal I don't think he did anything well.

Seitaridis = 4: What on earth was he doing on the 2nd goal? Apart from that did he even cross the half-way line? He was afraid to run with the ball! Every time he got the ball, there'd be space ahead of him and he'd take 3 strides, see a yellow shirt 5 metres away from him and he'd s%$#! himself and pass the ball backwards.

Dellas = 5: He was ok defensively but aside from a couple of wonderful long range passes toward Karagounis he kept launching the ball aimlessly forward. A very unintelligent and unconomical performance.

Antzas = 6: Coped ok in the first hour or so, but his plays were dumb and he'd get caught out a little when faced with skill. There was a flick (from Wilhemsson I think) and he was in awe ffs!!! <_< Overall I thought it was an average performance by him.

Kyrgiakos = 7: Had he not been at fault for the 2nd goal, if he was a little less clumsy and if we didn't lose I'd have given him a 9. He dealt with Ibrahimovic superbly who, despite the newspaper headlines about his great goal, did very little else. Kyrgiakos mauled him and he was definately our man of the match. If all the Greeks played to his level we'd win the Euro again.

Torosidis = 5: It would be easy to criticise him, but the reality is he playing on the left on his own and he coped quite well defensively, although he didn't offer anything going forward and his crossing was poor.

Katsouranis = 2: According to former Arsenal defender Lee Dixon Ibra's goal was Kyrgiakos' fault because he didn't get tight enough when the initial throw in came in... I know I'm hardly qualified to argue with a man that was part of the greatest defensive backline the Premiership has ever seen, but I'm going to do just that anyway... Considering the distance Ibra was from the goal it is absurd to expect a centre-back to follow him. Ibra did nothing in the 1st half because he played as a centre-forward and he got owned by Kyrgiakos. In the 2nd half he dropped deeper and as such it becomes the responsibility of one of the holding midfielders to stick to him. So what the F*** was Katsouranis doing standing there watching Ibra and Larsson play a 1-2 around him? He was positionally clueless, lazy, poor in possession, and he lacked passion. A truly dismal display which was on a par with Patsa's against Chelsea.

Basinas = 2: He is too old to run around. I don't care how good he was... Pele and Zico were great, they're not in the team anymore! He's a fantastic player to have against weak opposition because when he has time he's superb. At NT level though he's harried into losing the ball constantly. He should no longer be playing in the first team.

Karagounis = 1: There seems to be a general consensus among those I speak and the foreign media that Karagounis was Greece's best player... either I'm blind or they don't know the first thing about football. I thought he was our worst player. His set-pieces were a joke... I mean he gets paid ffs!!! He slowed down the move every time he got the ball. His positioning was frankly laughable at times, his crossing was the worst I've seen from any player in a long time, and his movement was non-existent. He also f'd up a huge chance for us to take the lead. If you haven't got the pace to get away when you're tet-a-tet then lay it off to the side where your teammate is waiting to tap it in you greedy prick!!!!

Haristeas = 5: He didn't do anything, but he worked his socks off. It's not his fault if he isn't good enough to play where Otto chooses to put him. I have respect for him for putting in the effort though. He also went on a fantastic run which could have led to the goal of the tournament, although I expected a weak shot to be honest.

Gekas = 3: He literally did nothing! On the rare occassion that he got the ball he lost it immediately.

Samaras = 6: I've been his biggest critic but he worked hard and was feeding off scraps. Like you say, his thought process was different from that of his teammates. BUT his thought-process was the correct one. If I was manager he'd start the next game.

Amanatidis = 6: Worked hard and looked lively but the quality wasn't really there. Although he's definitely a starter! What was Otto playing at to leave him on the bench?

Otto = 1: He's gone senial....

[as5664]

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/8233...for-Russia-tilt

"There wasn't a physical problem with the team," Nikopolidis said. "The Swedes had read us well. Our basic problem is the way we organized our game."

We've given Nikopolidis a lot of flack on these boards, but I have to admit that the poor guy sounds frustrated, as if our team is forced to play with one hand tied behind their backs. I think a serious rift has developed between Otto and the players. It seems that the players are countering Otto's criticisms and clearly blaming the tactics employed.

I have a feeling after this EURO, contract or not, Otto will be packing his bags.

I'm glad to see that they make explicity clear that they have to play attacking soccer, and that suggests to me that Otto will be forced to listen to his players.

Russia plays with a 3-5-3, so Spyropoulos on the left and Toro on the right is imperative. We will need to rely on the width of the field and attack, attack, attack!!

[drakos13]

you must be joking DUDE giving Antzas 6 and Yourkas 4

I know you dont like Seitaridis, but often he was one of the only players made some big recovery tackles, and also did manage to get forward.

Its unfair, especially because in this system, Toro and Seitaridis have to carry the team on their backs for everything.

Antzas is a loser - he was hopless decisions, didnt know where he should be could not pass, very tough time keeping up with Sweden. He doesnt cut it. Put Gkoumas or even Patsa in there.....or even better how about TWO centerbacks and put some strength in areas of the field like midfield and forward so we actually have some resources to play the game past our penalty area!?

And the most bizarre is Samaras I dont understand 6???!? Are you joking? I thought youd rip him to shreds, as he proved all of your criticsm was entirely justified! He was horrible and I was shocked!

Did nobody else notice him? He played a 3 at best, in fact he was the worst striker of the whole tournament. I usually liked this guy, but WOW is he awful. When we did try to go up, he lost every posession given to him, he was slow, unaware, couldnt win anything, and couldnt even keep his balance. I mean clearly he was a POINTLESS substitution, but I honestly dont beleive he should be playing for the team, not over Lymbe at least who really is a class above - people tend not to like the domestic players, but Nikos Lymperopoulos is reliable to perform and give it his best. Hes been in plenty of big games and he can score goals from anywhere.

Gekas 3 - but SAMARAS a 1???

Gkekas did nothing because the team was passing for 20 mins on defense.......the few times we could get the ball on him there were 3 men there and nobody to help. Not to mention what good is a lone forward when he was basically playing defensive midfielder!!!! Gkekas needs a partner and he needs passes....Its silly because we know the guy will score for Greece or any team once the ball is started floating around the offensive area.....but when that doesnt happen...

Karagkounis a 1???

He wasnt great, in fact he made some idiotic moves, bad crosses etc....

That very selfish attempted lob of 2 defenders and a keeper instead of passing off cost us a sure goal. He also would not switch the field wide into space when it was there and oppportunistic. Some of his setpeices were decent, others crap.

Rehagel, Peseiro, got it wrong - Karagkounis, SUCKS at corner kicks.

Literally, every single one goes low, and to the near post (useless). I point this out a thousand times every PAO match thread. I dont understand why Basinas cant take the corners, because we need to all the defense we can get in the back vs SWEDEN at a 0-0???

What impressed people was that when Greece tried to go forward it was him and he did have some nice dribbles.

[DUDE]

you must be joking DUDE giving Antzas 6 and Yourkas 4

.................

but Nikos Lymperopoulos is reliable to perform and give it his best. Hes been in plenty of big games and he can score goals from anywhere.

Bear in mind that Antzas' main objective was to keep Larsson quiet, and he did that. Remember I use the British system of ratings, where 6 is average, and in my opinion he was just that. Did he make any huge mistakes in the way he did for Olympiakos against Chelsea? At times he won some key headers and kept Larsson queit, at other times he seemed a little lost. He was average.

Whereas Seitaridis met no objectives whatsoever... I realise you are, like many other Greek fans, always concerned with club football. When you see Anztas and Seitaridis wearing the NT shirt you only see eruthroleuka kai prasina. I'm not like you, I couldn't care less who they play for. The no.1 team in your heart is PAO, in mine it's the NT, so I call it as I see it. The fact is Seitaridis was abysmal yesterday! I gave my explanation as to why I think so and I stand by it. I'm always honest, I don't have a vendetta against any of the Greek players, I just don't think Seitaridis has performed well enough in recent years... so this comment is just dumb: "I know you dont like Seitaridis, but..." Are you implying that I'm undervaluing him because I don't think he's good enough? If that's the case why have I not "torn Samaras to shreds" as you put it?

As for Samaras... if there's anyone who's been an advocate of Lybe it's been me... and for a long time now, and I still say it. But that's a different story. Samaras was average considering the circumstances. He was feeding off of pointless long balls and he worked hard to shut them down. Everyone here knows I don't really rate him, but he was more of a threat than Gekas through his sheer work-rate yesterday. Diladi, let me ask you something, what exactly did you expect from a forward feeding off of the abysmal service he was given yesterday? If it wasn't Samaras and it was Ronaldinho na poume, would he have done anything?

In response to your edit... I don't think you understand the finer points of "ratings". A player gets a rating according to how well he plays in a given game. It is irrelevant why Gekas was poor, the fact is he didn't do anything apart from give the ball away. Samaras worked with the same service and featured a lot more and fought more too.

Again, it's irrelevant who decides whether Karagounis takes a corner, the fact is his corners were a joke. And what nice dribbles re? No wonder you tell us every weak how good the PAO players are, if you consider that a good performance I suggest you stop watching the MLS and start watching proper football.

@ as5664: Dellas also said something along the lines of "we will make changes, but I'm not the coach, it's not for me to say what changes should be made though as I'm not the coach". Maybe we are over analysing but I can see why the players would be pissed. After all, Otto is undermining their ability.

[slick13]

I THINK THE BOYS ARE SICK OF HEARING ALL THE BS ABOUT NO OFFENSE, ETC ETC..I THINK THEY ARE JUST DYING TO SCORE 5 GOALS AND SHUT EVERYONE UP, SHOWING THEY CAN PLAY ANYWAY THEY N E E D TO IN ORDER TO EXPLOIT THE OPENINGS PROVIDED BY THE OPPOSITION...

THAT IS THE MARK OF A WORLD CLASS TEAM.....BEAT U 1-0 , OR 5-4 WHATEVER THE SITUATION PERMITS...THATS WHAT I WANNA SEE....

:tup: :tup: :LOL: :nw:

[slick13]

5-4-1 against sweden?

it is not like we are playing spain or argentina-brazil.

why should we play with 3 center backs?

we should have been playing 4-2-1-2-1(4-3-3) with 2 centerbacks 2 full backs 2 dm 1 amc 2 wide forwards 1 center forwards.

this is gonna be to easy for sweden to cope with!

we can only pray for a win :gr: :gr: :gr: :gr:

pame ellas.

i told u! <_< <_<

[drakos13]

you must be joking DUDE giving Antzas 6 and Yourkas 4

.................

but Nikos Lymperopoulos is reliable to perform and give it his best. Hes been in plenty of big games and he can score goals from anywhere.

Bear in mind that Antzas' main objective was to keep Larsson quiet, and he did that. Remember I use the British system of ratings, where 6 is average, and in my opinion he was just that. Did he make any huge mistakes in the way he did for Olympiakos against Chelsea? At times he won some key headers and kept Larsson queit, at other times he seemed a little lost. He was average.

Whereas Seitaridis met no objectives whatsoever... I realise you are, like many other Greek fans, always concerned with club football. When you see Anztas and Seitaridis wearing the NT shirt you only see eruthroleuka kai prasina. I'm not like you, I couldn't care less who they play for. The no.1 team in your heart is PAO, in mine it's the NT, so I call it as I see it. The fact is Seitaridis was abysmal yesterday! I gave my explanation as to why I think so and I stand by it. I'm always honest, I don't have a vendetta against any of the Greek players, I just don't think Seitaridis has performed well enough in recent years... so this comment is just dumb: "I know you dont like Seitaridis, but..." Are you implying that I'm undervaluing him because I don't think he's good enough? If that's the case why have I not "torn Samaras to shreds" as you put it?

As for Samaras... if there's anyone who's been an advocate of Lybe it's been me... and for a long time now, and I still say it. But that's a different story. Samaras was average considering the circumstances. He was feeding off of pointless long balls and he worked hard to shut them down. Everyone here knows I don't really rate him, but he was more of a threat than Gekas through his sheer work-rate yesterday. Diladi, let me ask you something, what exactly did you expect from a forward feeding off of the abysmal service he was given yesterday? If it wasn't Samaras and it was Ronaldinho na poume, would he have done anything?

In response to your edit... I don't think you understand the finer points of "ratings". A player gets a rating according to how well he plays in a given game. It is irrelevant why Gekas was poor, the fact is he didn't do anything apart from give the ball away. Samaras worked with the same service and featured a lot more and fought more too.

Again, it's irrelevant who decides whether Karagounis takes a corner, the fact is his corners were a joke. And what nice dribbles re? No wonder you tell us every weak how good the PAO players are, if you consider that a good performance I suggest you stop watching the MLS and start watching proper football.

@ as5664: Dellas also said something along the lines of "we will make changes, but I'm not the coach, it's not for me to say what changes should be made though as I'm not the coach". Maybe we are over analysing but I can see why the players would be pissed. After all, Otto is undermining their ability.

oh seriously DUDE - i cant have a football opinion because i am PAO

YOU are Olympiakos and CYPRIOT and you always play it "neutral" but everybody in these forums knows it pure bull.

My friends who are not Greek and watching the game also thought the same things about Antzas and agreed he was making good tackles. Antzas was CRAP. Keep Larsoon quiet? we had 11 players to mark Larsson dont act like Antzas excelled at anything. He was one extra body in the 5 cramped int he center, and he wasnt even very good at it.

As for Samaras, go watch the tape again. Average? Does the average player lose every posession, not complete a single pass, trip over himself and look lost on the pitch? He stood out. When we did try to go forward, he could not serve any purpose except giving the ball back to Sweden, no movement, no ability nothing. He does not belong as a point striker at ALL.....and on the team? BACKUP ONLY -and thats pushing it, because Id honestly much rather be pleasantly suprised by Petropoulos out there. Hell even Tsigkas I wouldnt mind seeing instead.

He was without a doubt the worst striker of all round 1 Euro 2008. Laughable.

[DUDE]

because Id honestly much rather be pleasantly suprised by Petropoulos out there. Hell even Tsigkas I wouldnt mind seeing instead.

Congratulations on writing the dumbest post in the history of the phantis forums... and that's quite an acheivement considering the level of football knowledge you've displayed in the past.

@ everyone else... check this out from Epo.gr:

[as5664]

http://www.euro2008.uefa.com/news/kind=1/n...sid=712975.html

Desperate times

Basinas agreed. "What matters most now is for the team to remain calm," said the 32-year-old RCD Mallorca midfielder. "Our next encounter is of the utmost importance. Both Russia [beaten 4-1 by Spain] and us need the victory, so both sides will change things in their tactics from their first match. We know exactly what we must change in our system. We don't have the luxury of time and we must respond quickly."

Unrealistic expectations

However, he was at pains to underline that Greece no longer had the same team that triumphed at UEFA EURO 2004™, saying to supporters: "They shouldn't confuse the 2004 side with this one. Some players have retired, others are at a big tournament for the first time. The fact we won the trophy in 2004 doesn't mean we will do it every time. I am convinced this team has a bright future, but it needs time to improve. We Greeks always go to the extremes. We want instant results."

Okay, what??? Since when was expecting a decent performance going to the extremes? So, we should be looking at the long term? WHY??? What the hell is the significance of our long term improvement at this point? If that's the case, and we were/are interested in the long term improvement of Greek soccer, lets be more daring. And we should have had Papastathopoulos, A. Papadopoulos, Spyropoulos, Tziolis, Ninis, Mitroglou playing. What the hell are we learning from performances like this.

Also, the excuse of players being at a big tournament for the first time is unconvincing. EVERY member in the 2004 squad was new. Now, we at least have 6 veterans from Portugal--Basinas included. Before 2004 we never qualified for ANY tournament; the last appearance being the '94 fiasco.

I was very depressed today over last nights result; and the negative press is not making things any easier. Don't these players have any pride?? Like someone else wrote earlier, doesn't this bother them??? If don't get a result against an injury plagued and inexperienced Russia, we should drop out of the competition. I feel sorry for the Greeks who made the expense to go to Austria and attend these games, and have this tzitzifiongos blaming the fans for having too high expectations.

NTROPI!!!! :nono:

[loup]

He is right about extreems

Everyone wanted Otto's head after the WC qualifying, then nobody complained about his extension because we qualified so well and now he should be fired again?

I didnt like the strategy, but the players stunk

They were bombing passes that were impossible to control

Passing the ball straight out of bounds

5-3-2 and what runs did giorkas or toro make

stopping on a breakaway

watching a ball go 40 yards in the air and allowing 1 sweed to knock it past 3 Greeks

m*****es

nobody can tell me anyone played well, even Kyrgiakos pull a m*****a that knocked us out of the game with the 2nd goal

The only player who did his job was Charisteas, and like may of you have said he is playing out of position

I got the Confederations Cup feeling all over again

Can we put together a fund to bribe the Russians??

[loup]

That was too negative

I think we still can put it together

We play a 4-3-3 and we create from the wings, its the only way we can compete, since our mids are mediocre in their creativity

[mangas21]

look like i said there two more games left.....lets not "do the greek thing"..... give the boys the benefit of the doubt....they have earned at least that.....was yesterday the most abysmal, pathetic display? i would say for me, yes.....but lets see.......

"o kalos kapetanios sthn fourtouna faneronete".........

well its true (its amazing how the older i get, the smarter my parents get...i digress)

lets see...if u fancy yourselves as a world class team, then now is the time to show it......

[drakos13]

He is right about extreems

Everyone wanted Otto's head after the WC qualifying, then nobody complained about his extension because we qualified so well and now he should be fired again?

I didnt like the strategy, but the players stunk

They were bombing passes that were impossible to control

Passing the ball straight out of bounds

5-3-2 and what runs did giorkas or toro make

stopping on a breakaway

watching a ball go 40 yards in the air and allowing 1 sweed to knock it past 3 Greeks

m*****es

nobody can tell me anyone played well, even Kyrgiakos pull a m*****a that knocked us out of the game with the 2nd goal

The only player who did his job was Charisteas, and like may of you have said he is playing out of position

I got the Confederations Cup feeling all over again

Can we put together a fund to bribe the Russians??

its a tough call. he was bad in qualifying and he did hesitate to change this team.

Come the lineup, we see a Greece relativley unchanged from 4 years ago. We have to move to the future of the team, and he wouldnt do it. He shouldnt be fired, he should finish his contract, but i think the FA should warn him - to start building a NEW team, because Rehagel will not change a thing ( a few new faces arent cutting it, were trying to be the same 2004 team still) because when Rehagel leaves, we will be stuck starting from scratch again. Rehagel's #1 task should be to prepare us for the future and hopefully in doing that get us to the WC. With our young talent, its not beyond us to get through this relatively easy WC gropu anyways.

If Otto tries the same crap in WC qualfiying expecting us to play like that, and keep using Basinas, Dellas, Gianakopoulos, Nikopolidis, etc..... I dont care if Nikopolidis is better than Tzorvas - Tzorvas in reality, is not that much worse, and every game is giving him valuable experience so we are gaining more by letting these players test themselves and prepare the new team.

[drakos13]

according to basinas, greece know 'exactly' what they need to change. if this is true: the side, including staff - must have the lowest i.q. of all sides at the euro - due to the fact that they actually believed they were schematically & tactically sound going into the sweden match. 'now', they realize they must change. ok, great.

right there......If they knew exactly what had to change - why the hell didnt they change anything at half? Tactically sound? Those were the stupidest tactics ever. Granted Sweden got it exactly right - they played a strong defense vs our defensive side to make it backfire. We cant frustrate the Swedes, if theyre not throwing men forward.

its funny were perfectly capable of putting up a game against Sweden - but we didnt. We know were more than capable of it - we played Denmark in WC qualifyers and beat them, we played Norway also and beat them, tied them in Oslo...Hell even Czech, Portugal, Finalnd we beat in friendlies - what the hell happened and we came out with this system??? Were so much better than this and sadly the whole world beleives we really cant play ball after 2004. When the world isnt watching - we go on and impress!

We need our qualifying self - we beat that Turkish side square in the ass in Turkey and look at what they did tonight. Why cant we do that system?

I dont know why so many fans hate on Gkekas. Understand the man is a goalscorer. He will do that, weather its Greece, PAO, Leverkusen, Bochum, Kallithea . He's a top choice striker, and finds the net - and when the ball is in the air he finds it. In fact Sweden just got a nick on a Seitaridis cross that was a 1-0 waiting there for Gkekas I remember - his positioning in the area, ability to finish is great. The Gkekas bashing after he was at times playing defensive midfielder last game is totally unjustified, and his replacement lost 10/10 possesions, could not keep his balance, slow and screwe every pass and control...

Gkekas has a EURO blog, btw

Following Sweden:

http://blogs.in.gr/eu2008blog/Default.aspx

[drakos13]

Sadly enough my subscription for Greeklive had ended and I couldn't watch from my pc ... which I hated! Had to watch it on the telly, on the Belgian channel with stupid commentators. I really hated not being able to follow it on Phantis! :(

Greek live will not show NET during Euros because of "copyright" garbage. What crap.

I am afraid they will do the same thing for the CL, and then I cant watch Greek teams in the CL or UEFA, as the local provider only shows one game......TV rights.....in need of reforms.

[drakos13]

An excerpt from Sulmaan Ahmad at Goal.com:

Greece are not champions anymore. Not even the most devout optimist were suspecting that Otto Rehhagel's men would repeat their 2004 heroics before the tournament, let alone after yesterday's disappointment. The cacophony of boos every time they sat back to absorb pressure just goes to show that the world (or Europe, at least) has grown tired of the underdogs now. It was exciting the first time, but the fickle world of football fandom has reared its ugly head once more. They are no longer a small-time side who are performing minor miracles with limited quality, they're being branded a boring and talentless bunch - such is the price of success.

For what it's worth, Greece fans, Sweden were not much better. In fact, they were precisely one Zlatan Ibrahimovic better than the reigning champions. Such magic is often required to break the deadlock in turgid affairs such as the one yesterday evening and it was one of football's most unfairly criticised man of the moment who made it happen. Much credit is due to him, and on the basis of yesterday's games, second place in Group D could end up in anyone's hands.

Read more

Hmm... Where is this guy from??

Malaqistan?

:LOL:

Honestly the man knows nothing about the team. Goal.com is a complete joke of a sports site, literally anybody can write for them, full of trash rumours and misinformation. They are not a respectable news source, and this kind of "analysis" is more than enough evidence.

This is the English readers version of Sportdog - rubbish, rubbish and more rubbish. Its only not treated as such because of its "popularity" and how many readers it gets, but theyre just numbers. In reality, the site is garbage. And Im not worried about what some idiot who is talking about what "Europe" thinks after this guy is not a European himself :LOL:

[Genome]

Don't know if it has been mentioned already but apparently Chalkias is out with an injury (middlefinger) he got during training. He will probably miss out on the complete tournament.

[drakos13]

well, Tzorvas is better anyways.

[paxiotis7]

I know goal.com is crap but..

http://goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=731750

Donadoni knows he made a mistake. He knows he made a poor selection and wants to change things to do better. Dont you wish otto had this mentality. Donadoni knows the team wont win if they play liek that again so he tries to shake things up. I pray otto does this, but he is too stubborn. Lets not embaress ourselves! :gr:

[aekrossoponti]

o.k i just returned from salzburg and it was a devastating game and day. swedish fans outnumbered the crazy greeks at least 3:1. hardly any greeks in salzburg as opposed to swedes running the show there.

tha game was probably the worst football i ever saw. i ve been at the japan game during the confed cup and thought it was much much better.

you guys point out so many truths its hard for me to respond, etc. plus i dont want to repeat what you have said.

otto clearly was afraid which is why he set up what at time seemed like a 6-3-1. interestingly karagounis and toro were left side and they just lack whatever the chemistry toro and amanatidis have. karagounis seems to love to turn the game to the middle which played directly into the swedish hands. i think toro had a decent game and was lightyears better than giourkas.

what striked me was that no one moved on this greek side. the swedes basically pulled back and waited for us. we couldnt do anything because no one moved. dellas, antzas and kiriakos played these pathetic passes because NO ONE moved form our players.

sweden wasnt much better which makes loss even worse. realistically speaking we are 99% out of the tournament unless wa beat spain.

i am afraid that hiddink will outcoach otto as blatantly as the swedish coach. the swedes basically played the greek game against us and we dont have any answers after 4 yrs. maybe it ll be easier for us against spain, were we will not have to make the play.

[aekrossoponti]

i have a hard time giving grades to players because i don t always remember everything:

nikopolidis (4)- was decent. looks pathetic on the second goal though.

dellas (5)- average display. one or two nice passes

antzas(4)-overall he was decent but had some stupid mistakes, im not a big fan anyways

kirakos(6,5)-positive performance, had a chance at goal if i remember correctly

giourkas(3,5)-looked bad on the second goal, offers NOTHING going forward, given his potential we need much more

toro(6)-problem on the first goal apart from that a breath of fresh air. a wingback that actually gets involved offensively, defensively he had problem. seems to have major problems being on his weak foot though. otto wake up!

katsu(4,5)-showed some glimpses but overall disappointing, we need more form him, much more. had the feeling though at times he was the one that should drop deep to give basinas freedom to roam

basinas(5)-somewhat active, no creativity but then again no one is moving ever, has to show much more though

karagounis (6)- the only active player of the infamus three, needs much time to control the ball, tends too make our game slow, overlooked torosidis, etc. numerous time as he was too busy dribbling. on a positive nore he shows the pathos most of our players lack

charisteas(6,5)-our right forward. stupid choice by otto, tried to give it his all. fought.

gekas(4)- no real chance as a sole striker, another poor choice by otto

Subs:

samaras(5)-more agility than gekas, nearly forced an own goal. difficule as he was oftentimes isolated as was gekas before him, overall seemed more involved than gekas but if i am honest, never had the feeling he would be able to score

amanatidis(5)- provided some spark on the right side but no threat as well

i dont know why otto changed his winning recipe, i think we probably would ve looked better playing our 4-3-3. loss to direct opposition for the second place is like a death certificate. its no longer in our hands which is garbage.

[dark_horse]

Inconsistency has plagued this team. We show we can keep beating a team like Portugal who I am tipping to win Euro 2008 yet we lose to Turkey 4-1 at home. We were in good form when we played Portugal in the friendly prior to the tournament but then we played terrible against Hungary. It was evident of the Hungary game that we had issues in the back and these were not rectified so we carried this bad form into this Sweden game.

Credit to Sweden they knew we wanted them to attack us so we can hurt them on the brake so they frustrated us by also adopting a defensive approach. In 04 no team did this against us, we played attacking sides such as Portugal, Czech Republic, Spain, France.

I can't believe people actually expect Greece to retain the Euro purely because we won it 4 years ago. Yes we did win, however it was a surprise, a shock phenomenal even and something that can only occur very rarely. Our ranking of 8th in the world makes us over rated because the average Greek soccer player is simply not good enough. If i can rephrase this we are more recognized for strength and say courage rather than our skill. In this game we were lacked someone like Zlatan Ibrahimovic, a world class player that can change the game with a single moment of brilliance. This is a guy that juggles chewing gum. If only Samaras or Charisteas was in the class of Zlatan that can shoot like Zlatan control the ball like him etc. Until we produce players that resemble such class, people should not expect Greece to do well in these tournaments.

Going back to the Sweden game if you ask each player, with a little naivety you can say most of them did well.

Nikopolidis was bad, but then again he is our number one keeper, who else is there? What ever little talent he possesses it's the best we have and that goes for every other player we have available for selection. Many people don't understand this.

We should all be disappointed with Rehhagel and his formation rather than the players. The guy is a genius but today he got it wrong and he should have admitted in the post match interview that the formation was at fault.

Greece was becoming the team people love to hate due to this disgusting style of play. Sure we won the Euro with this style of play but many were not convinced we were deserving of it. Our style was even more defensive then 4 years ago. The sight of having 3 centre backs pass the ball to each other was disgusting and draining.

I think Rehhagel has not realized how dangerous we can be when we attack, and how better our chances improve of getting a result. It is evident why he picked so many defenders and left out Ninis. Someone has to stand up to the German and demand that we play some attacking football.

Oh BTW, if Sweden does qualify for the quarterfinals, I will root for them all the way. After all, I am part Swedish. :D

[Akritis_1944]

http://www.euro2008.uefa.com/news/kind=1/n...sid=712975.html

Desperate times

Basinas agreed. "What matters most now is for the team to remain calm," said the 32-year-old RCD Mallorca midfielder. "Our next encounter is of the utmost importance. Both Russia [beaten 4-1 by Spain] and us need the victory, so both sides will change things in their tactics from their first match. We know exactly what we must change in our system. We don't have the luxury of time and we must respond quickly."

Unrealistic expectations

However, he was at pains to underline that Greece no longer had the same team that triumphed at UEFA EURO 2004™, saying to supporters: "They shouldn't confuse the 2004 side with this one. Some players have retired, others are at a big tournament for the first time. The fact we won the trophy in 2004 doesn't mean we will do it every time. I am convinced this team has a bright future, but it needs time to improve. We Greeks always go to the extremes. We want instant results."

Okay, what??? Since when was expecting a decent performance going to the extremes? So, we should be looking at the long term? WHY??? What the hell is the significance of our long term improvement at this point? If that's the case, and we were/are interested in the long term improvement of Greek soccer, lets be more daring. And we should have had Papastathopoulos, A. Papadopoulos, Spyropoulos, Tziolis, Ninis, Mitroglou playing. What the hell are we learning from performances like this.

Also, the excuse of players being at a big tournament for the first time is unconvincing. EVERY member in the 2004 squad was new. Now, we at least have 6 veterans from Portugal--Basinas included. Before 2004 we never qualified for ANY tournament; the last appearance being the '94 fiasco.

I was very depressed today over last nights result; and the negative press is not making things any easier. Don't these players have any pride?? Like someone else wrote earlier, doesn't this bother them??? If don't get a result against an injury plagued and inexperienced Russia, we should drop out of the competition. I feel sorry for the Greeks who made the expense to go to Austria and attend these games, and have this tzitzifiongos blaming the fans for having too high expectations.

NTROPI!!!! :nono:

You summed it up perfectly.

These so-called "footballers" are overpaid and insulting to every hard working Greek person who has pride in their nation.

What was Basinas trying to say? Who actually excpected Greece to go back-to-back this time around? very few people!

We all however expected them to break a sweat and try, regardless of the result.

Austrians signed a petition for their NT to withdraw fearing humiliation, well I can honestly say that our bunch of reigning champions are by far the worst team in the tournament and if I was botherered, I too would start the petition for us to withdraw!

[drakos13]

Credit to Sweden they knew we wanted them to attack us so we can hurt them on the brake so they frustrated us by also adopting a defensive approach. In 04 no team did this against us, we played attacking sides such as Portugal, Czech Republic, Spain, France.

glad somebody else noticed. Tactically, Sweden was the one with the "big plans and surprise"

The worst thing they could do to us was play such a strong defense that if we played all out defense (as we did) there would be no chance us going forward.

Greece tried to play cat and mouse even......Sweden just didnt bite.

People were getting furious and puzzled when Greece was passing for 10 minutes and not going foward.

Did anybody, see Sweden press up on them? The Swedish strikers could have only been given orders, to stand down like that for so long. As a result, we were entirely thrown off track - we wanted them to come up , commit, and catch them while theyre up...They didnt bite, and we have no game plan.

Again, thats a tactic yes, but with all the big bullshit talk before the match of a master plan, a focused game plan where "we play OUR game and dont worry about the opponent" was actually all a load of crap ,and the players /coach clearly dont know what that means, because if your strategy depends on the opponents biting your trap, your not playing your game your relying on the opponents mistakes..

[DUDE]

players running into the box upset a defense and many times, are not picked up. this trio of stationary center mids don't threaten the opponent's defensive shape nor support their own freaking teammates. disgraceful.

Spot on! The English are the best at getting midfielders to make late runs in to the box. In fact it's probably their only real world class weapon... get the ball out wide, whip a ball into the box towards 2 target men with at least another 2 midfielders arriving late into the box. That's at least 4 targets to aim for every time a cross comes in. It gets headed clear, and another cross comes straight back in. That's VERY difficult to deal with and players like Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard, C.Ronaldo, Ballack, etc, have all perfected in the British game.

Your comment that either Otto ignores/doesn't realise this or they don't listen to him means one of 2 things:

1) If Otto ignores this or doesn't realise it and persists with the same players, who in turn continue to perform in the way they are then Otto has to go.

2) If the players don't listen to him then he either has to drop them, or it shows that he's lost his authority among them and he has to go.

So either way things must change and because they aren't changing one would have to assume that as a unit this shockingly bad trio has to be disbanded. If they are not then Otto must leave. It's one or the other.