Greece v. Sweden @ Euro 2008

[OFI-mtl]

Well paidia I can not add anything different. Was watching the game at an italian cafe,and kept telling my koumbaro...malak@ we have 3 Mids who have zero ball skills...yet we blast Samaras and Charisteas,Gekas. THERE IS NO LINK to get the ball moving upfield, they give 0 support.

I had no qualms with the 5-4-1 ...just the effort that th players put forth. In this formation both WingBaks must gallop all game long..1st half Giourkas and Toro had space and took it ..2nd half maybe Otto pulled back the reigns.

I am surprised that no one has mentioned that 04 was lead by Zagorakis who oooozed passion....08 lead by Basinas who has 0 passion what does this guy bring...I dod not notice hom once trying to rally the troops.

Well we begin the KO phase on Saturday.

I would like to see Otto go 4-3-3:Nikopolidis,Giourkas,Dellas,Soto,Spyropoulos,Toro,Katsouranis,Karagounis,Amanatidis,Gekas,Charisteas

Hopefully the media bashing will wake these guys up!!

TRULY A PATHETIC EFFORT :tdown:

[andrew_g]

I don't like to say I told everyone so, but I knew this would happen. This team has played inconsistently since Euro 2004. Okay they did do well in the qualifiers, but look at this:

Moldova (struggle and a win by a goal)

Norway (A decent game)

Bosnia (we won by four goals, but the Bosians had us on the ropes for long periods of time)

Turkey(We know that one)

Malta (They outplayed us for long stretches)

Hungary (A good first have effort but poor second half)

Moldova (We needed Lybe to save us with only seconds left)

Norway (A bad ref, decent game, but at times we looked out of out)

Turkey (A good game, but we narrowly won)

Bosnia (Gave up two goals)

Malta (Not a bad game)

Hungary (Worst game next to Turkey)

As I said, games are won and lost in the midfield and there was nothing happening today. Karagounis tried his best but had little support and his deadball delivery was woefull, where is Tsartas?Though he couldn't run, he could spot a nail a mile away. Basinas and Katsouranis were dreadful.

I can't believe that this team of veterans just decided to play this stuipid game of passing the ball in their own half--it's not like they were playing Brazil. Otto had the idea to frustrate the Swedes, but in effect the only people he frustrated were his own fans and BTW that was a foul that led to the second goal. They played a miserable game and deserved to lose. The tactics were bad and it seemed like they knew it and were trying to teach him a lesson at times I thought this team were under the impression that they were defending a 1-0 lead.

[mangas21]

obviously, we cant sneak up on anyone this year....but i guess teh surprise was that we are going to play even MORE defensively.......

what do you guys think? how much of this was otto, and how much was the players?

go back and look at the chez republic game in 04....we had some very good offensive opps, and the opposition HAD to respect the counter.....with 10 guys back, you face a battering ram that eventually will breakthrough...its just the law of averages at this level.....

i just dont get it.....this game was very disturbing for a lot of reasons.....

[paxiotis7]

That was the wrost greece game since albania at home. Maybe not that bad, but im really pissed right now. This was a huge game for greece and you have to want it in big games. Greece was the only team in this tournament (possibly italy too) with something to lose. Everyone was nervous out there. Did you see their faces during the national athem? Greece came out with everything to lose and did lose it all. Im glad that first game is out of the way now. Now greece have nothing to lose, and tahts when they play good. When everyone counts them out, thats when the team gets back up and they show us who we are :gr:

Wc qualifying after winning the euro, we had everything to lost being defending champions and we sucked! Then all the pressure was off ( from an international point of view no one expected us to do anyhting) we were writing off for the euro and earned 31 points more then anyone else! Now theres no pressure on us again ( some could argue taht theres even more presuure right now) and lets show europe what greece really is :gr: :gr:

Bring on Russiiiiaaaaa!!!! :gr: :gr: :gr:

[paxiotis7]

About the game: The boys from frankfort were the only was who showed up today. Today was teh type of game where you need giannakopoulos. A work horse who will play his heart out even when everything is giong wrong.

And one more thing. Im surprised no one is complaing abuot the second goal. I think Kyriakos was fouled! But we deserved to get scored on after that hiddious defending to allow ljunberd ( i think it was him) a clear break on goal

[Akritis_1944]

This is not the worst game that we have played. I can name a few off the top my head that compare to this:

Confed matches to Brazil (yes it's Brazil but we showed no resistance) and Japan.

Friendly away to England.

Friendly away to Australia.

Friendly in England against South Korea.

Friendly to South Korea.

WC Qualifer to Albania.

WC qualifer away to Kazhakstan.

EC Qualifer at home to Turkey.

EC Qualifer at home to Moldova.

I can seriously go on.....the common denominator in all this was Otto.

Difference is that this time we had the world's attention on us playing as defending Euro champions and we failed miserably! Let's all give the critics and the Helleno-haters fuel!

I hate how Otto sits back in Germany and doesn't follow the Greek league. As if all the best players play for the three Athenian teams?!??!!?

Torosidis would be sitting in his living room right now if he never moved from ksanthi to Olympiakos. Does Otto mean to tell the Greek football public that Toro somehow became worthy of the Ethniki because his performances improved since he joing Oly?

He needs to resign as EPO won't terminate him. We need a fresh start.

Otto thanks for giving us something that no other manager will ever emulate again, but stop humiliating us.

:gr:

[Leviathan]

Well, let me defend the choice of 5-3-2 over 4-3-3

We ve all agreed that the 4-3-3 doesn't suit us because our forwards aren't wingers who could beat their matchups. The 5-3-2 is also more conducive to the man to man Rehaggel favors. Moreover, the 5-3-2 with Antzas inside yesterday gave you the option of moving Antzas to the DM and substituting Katsouranis for an offensive player should you want to move to a more offensive formation.

Having said that:

1. Antzas has the mindset of a libero, not a stopper.

2. You cannot count on the set pieces; we miss Tsartas. The tactic of looking Charisteas' head sucks. Katsouranis nailed it:

[athinaios]

Need new faces, new coach, and new tactics. The team (with these guys) plays as Otto instructs them. Don't they? The had Gekas isolated trying to feed him long balls..... :LOL:

So, they came to the game NOT to lose! Otto said that much. He was happy with the 0-0 at the half. Did he tell the team to play any different in the second? No!

Of course, if you don't try to beat Sweden then..... :whistle: then I don't know what you're doing in the tournament....

Every time the camera was on him, Otto was saying something, gesturing. But, no one, not even his assistant coach, was paying attention to him! So, was he yelling about tactics? Instructions? He doesn't speak Greek anyway. His assistant (who speaks German) wasn't even looking at him... Like an old man yelling at the sky... (reminded me of an episode from the Simpsons :LOL: )

[PAO_OR_DEATH]

About the game: The boys from frankfort were the only was who showed up today. Today was teh type of game where you need giannakopoulos. A work horse who will play his heart out even when everything is giong wrong.

And one more thing. Im surprised no one is complaing abuot the second goal. I think Kyriakos was fouled! But we deserved to get scored on after that hiddious defending to allow ljunberd ( i think it was him) a clear break on goal

re paxiotis7 in NZ we were screaming foul and it seemed we were the only ones, that pretentious comentator didnt even mention it. BUt i am glad at least some one agrees with me haha

i am so gutted, but hey thats why i love this game.

I think that Karagounis showed some of the spark he had for the later PAO games, if he hits "form" (because aparently the ethniki can at the touch of a button) Russia and Spain look out.

After seeing the spain russia game i think that we may have a better chance of putting up some goals provided we attack strongly especially on the counter as i think 3/4 of the spain goals were on the counter, shite it cuold have been all 4 i cant remember.

oooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh gosh, we can at least look forward to the exciting match ups that follow

[Sharpos]

I think we have about a 10% chance of getting to the next round after seeing the sad dispaly yesterday. As a half-swede i cant even be happy if the swedes progress. Not after that humiliating first game :tdown:

[Guest geok]

an absolute crap display of football. rehhagel leaves many perplexed with returning to a 5 defender scheme against a sweden with 2 strikers..1 withdrawn (ibrahimovic) and the other a 36 year old recently recalled player (larson).

...........................

[MOD's Note: NO need to have these long sheets of quotes... abreviate please!]

after the 1st round of matches, greece is easily the worst side - top to bottom.

I agree on everything here.

The system was bad. I admit that I was wrong to think that a EURO2004 recipe blindly implemented was what we wanted. Apologies to all.

The formation was bad. Reflecting on the formation and only after the match I can see that, we should have played a 4-3-3 or even a 3-4-3 with 2 man to man on Ibra and Larsson.

Now, we can only look at the next two games. Also, there must be changes in the squad. We must move around the pitch quicker.

Giourkas was abysmal. Antzas has no place in the team. Why did he put Kara on the sides? I am afraid that also Otto performed poorly yesterday...But I have to love him (as he requested) even when we lose, at least once. Torosidis was bad but also plays in the wrong position. We want players from the bench to come and help.

[Guest geok]

Geok, you're right, it is still possible to qualify.  In fact, we are still in control of our destiny; we have to go in and beat Russia and Spain.  Period. Unfortunately, this is easier said than done, so you understand my pessimism. 

...................................

On the bright side, we REALLY have nothing to lose now.  Maybe players will stand up to Otto and Topalidis AKA Karagiozis and Kolitiri. Maybe we will play all out offensive soccer.  Unfortunately, I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of the 5-3-1/5-4-1.  And instead of Nikopolidis, I say we hang a scarecrow stuffed with straw; at least it won't run off it's line.

I agree with you and I share your pessimism. I also apologize for writing Russia off; you were correct here too. It was based on my false assumption that we would not lose against Sweden last night.

Otto kept discussing with Stelios and Topalidis at the bench but did little to change the team. He was abysmal from the bench and the fact that he didn't make a 3rd substitution should be harshly criticized. It is just unacceptable. Also his comments for his players after the game were unfair and could create possible problems between the players and him, that he creates.

I hope that Karagounis and Basinas can take control and calm the team down. In certain circumstances they must be the coaches and disregard Otto's plans if necessary, as happened when Zagor told the players to play the same way as in the first half against France when Otto advised a 11-11 man to man in the second half!!! I say that the players should disregard (WHEN NECESSARY) Otto's orders in the pitch and no face to face. We need a coach in the pitch I am afraid and this is why we miss so much the best player of EURO2004, Teo Zagorakis.

[plato-ny]

Congratulations to Sweden on a deserved win. Even though they didnt create alot of scoring chances and the second goal was lucky, Sweden played well on the pitch and Ibra scored a fantastic goal. Greece played awful and had no scoring chances.

Every player on Greece was a zero and Otto's choice of formation and players were terrible. The back-passing by Greece in the latter portion of the first half was making me pull my hair out of my head. Greece is not an offensive or technical team but Greece has played better than that before.

Call me pessimistic, but based on the scenarios, Greece is already out of Euro. A team can pass with a bare minimum of 4 points but needs an advantage in goal differential and/or goals scored. Spain and Sweden are 4-1 and 2-0, respectively, while Greece and Russia are 0-2 and 1-4, respectively. Assuming Greece gets 4 points, in one of those wins, Greece has to score a good amount of goals and win by a good margin. The way Greece is playing, forget about it!

Now, everybody is laughing at Greece and Otto wont change his formation or his choice of players. This could be WC 1994 all over again. I keep thinking about the last 2 friendlies against Hungary and Spain (Turkey, at home, too) and how Greece played and performed the same way as in the Sweden match. I guess Otto and his men did not fix the problems in those friendlies and carried over to the Sweden match. Before those friendlies, Greece was in form went they defeated other teams in friendlies like Portugal, Czechs, Finland, and Cyprus. Something got lost along the way

As far as sacking Otto goes, that wont happen because he is under contract until the summer of 2010.

[plato-ny]

Extended highlights (English commentary)

[NYPAO13]

the 2004 magic is gone,russia is next & unless we win we will go back to being the lifeless Greece.

OUT with Nikopolidis

[gcp]

Lipiro gegonos to xthesino pexnidi!! Kai kamaronoume gia tin Ellinikh eksipnada :-)

The sad reality is those that criticize our national team were/are correct, we don't belong at the upper echelon of European football. The reasons why are too many to list and are systemic in nature. But many aspects of our play very much surprised me yesterday (and I shouldn't be because miracles are rare) 1) the lack of ball handling skill by most of our players, 2) the team's lack of imagination and inability to readjust in order to overcome an obstacle, 3) the lack of effort and thus desire to win at all cost, and 4) Nikopolidis who with his extensive experience chose not to smuther the ball so as to avoid the second pathetic goal. All of the above come back to haunt us time and again, and that's a constant heart breaker for us fans.

Looks like the embarrassing moments, which are the norm after all for Ellas as a footballing nation, are once again upon us. I hate to admit it but that's it in a nutshell.

[DUDE]

an absolute crap display of football. rehhagel leaves many perplexed with returning to a 5 defender scheme against a sweden with 2 strikers..1 withdrawn (ibrahimovic) and the other a 36 year old recently recalled player (larson).

.............[MOD's NOTE: no need to have long sheets of quotes.]

after the 1st round of matches, greece is easily the worst side - top to bottom.

Pes ta re file, pes ta!!!

I agree with pretty much everything you say but I don't think Samaras was quite that bad. At least he fought...

Kyrgiakos looked like the best defender in the world in the first half, in the 2nd he made the mistake on the 2nd goal of not actually going up for the ball, but generally he was superb. Instead of saying "if we played a more attacking formation it may have been 5-0 at half time", Otto should have said "without Kyriakos it would have been 5-0 at half time". Even the BBC described him as "The Beast From Greece" in the post-match analysis.

EVERYONE else should be thouroughly ashamed of their performance.

I hate to say that I was right in my prediction of the score, but I also think my point has been proved about Seitaridis, Basinas, and Karagounis. None of them should be in the team. One of the reasons we always launch the ball hopelessly forward is because we have to bypass the 3 miserable bastards in the middle (the other being Katsou obviously) . They are pathetic!!!

It was an inept performance, and before the game I was frequently saying that their weakness in the hole between centre-midfield and defence. So how does Otto handle that? With 3 holding midfielders!!! Ah re Otto... I've always refrained from criticising him too much because what he's acheived with us has been amazing, but I'm starting to think he's gone senile. 3 centre-backs and 3 holding midfielders playing deeper than ever before? Re Otto that's a recipe for disaster! Greece would lose to Yeovil with that line-up and performance. I'm embarassed at the fact that the world saw that!!! AND where was Lybe????

It was shocking! We won't score a goal in this competition and we will cop anywhere between 4 and 6 against Spain, mark my words. The Russians actually put in a decent performance against them but they were sliced open in clinical fashion, God only knows what they'll do to us. Sorry guys but Otto has to go. We need someone new to reinvigorate the players.

On a side note, even the Greek fans were poor. At no point could they be heard. They were outsang by Scandanavians! :LOL: Why not just bring in the National Association of the Deaf and get outsung by them?

Also, the English commentators were constantly saying that this proved that Euro 2004 was a fluke and that "at least this tournament will be won by a team with class"... Doesn't this sort of talk hurt the players? Don't they want to go out their and shut them up? It's infuriating to think that Papastathopoulos, Ninis & Tavlaridis at home while Lybe and Amanatidis were on the bench when they players that started yesterday were so passionless. I'm ashamed, embarassed and seriously depressed after that shambolic showing!

[Guest geok]

Also, the English commentators were constantly saying that this proved that Euro 2004 was a fluke and that "at least this tournament will be won by a team with class"... Doesn't this sort of talk hurt the players? Don't they want to go out their and shut them up? It's infuriating to think that Papastathopoulos, Ninis & Tavlaridis at home while Lybe and Amanatidis were on the bench when they players that started yesterday were so passionless. I'm ashamed, embarassed and seriously depressed after that shambolic showing![/b][/color]

DUDE, I am so happy to see you are alive. I thought you had a heart attack...

I like your comment about the ITV and BBC commentators. I have a question for them: Who won more fairly: Greece, EURO 2004 or England World cup 1966 (and nothing since then...)?

[DUDE]

DUDE, I am so happy to see you are alive. I thought you had a heart attack...

I like your comment about the ITV and BBC commentators. I have a question for them: Who won more fairly: Greece, EURO 2004 or England World cup 1966 (and nothing since then...)?

But what do you expect from the English re file? They love to criticise us... it's just a shame that we've given them the "patima" as they say.

What was especially funny is that Harry Redknapp (the Portsmouth manager who was a TV pundit for yesterday's game) was saying that the standard of the players on show is poor and that none of them could make it in the Premiership... Re m#$%! all the English players are in the Premiership and they are watching the Euros on TV!!!

I really wanted a good tournament to shut these pricks up, but instead we just give them ammo. I'm so depressed after that s%$#! that I'm thinking of holding up the chemist and stealing some prozac!

[Lazarus]

An excerpt from Sulmaan Ahmad at Goal.com:

Greece are not champions anymore. Not even the most devout optimist were suspecting that Otto Rehhagel's men would repeat their 2004 heroics before the tournament, let alone after yesterday's disappointment. The cacophony of boos every time they sat back to absorb pressure just goes to show that the world (or Europe, at least) has grown tired of the underdogs now. It was exciting the first time, but the fickle world of football fandom has reared its ugly head once more. They are no longer a small-time side who are performing minor miracles with limited quality, they're being branded a boring and talentless bunch - such is the price of success.

For what it's worth, Greece fans, Sweden were not much better. In fact, they were precisely one Zlatan Ibrahimovic better than the reigning champions. Such magic is often required to break the deadlock in turgid affairs such as the one yesterday evening and it was one of football's most unfairly criticised man of the moment who made it happen. Much credit is due to him, and on the basis of yesterday's games, second place in Group D could end up in anyone's hands.

Read more

[mangas21]

i cant imagine that sweden came up with the tactics to beat the greek defensive scheme....i think, otto has almost brainwashed these guys ito thinking they have very little chance of winning if they play more offensively...and, a 5-3-1 formation proves that as does the lack of ANY attempt to impose an offensive will on the opposition...we had ZERO chances of any substance....ZERO....

this game was SSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOO dismal i cant imagine that a coach mandates this type of strategy...therefore. i am very curious how much of this was the players simply not advancing when they had some space/opportunities or was it simply coaches instructions to play "patty cake/patty cake" with the ball in their own zone.....

i dont care how good your defense is, eventually the other team will score if given enough space / chances....thats what happened here, and was due in large part to greece inability/instructions to keep sweden back on their heels with some offensive presence....sweden had no fear whatsoever of any meaningful counters, especially in the second half, so they just loaeded up and dared greece to d something to make them pay....which they didn't/coudn't/wouldn't.....

sweden are a very mediocre side...we had no business losing to them

[DUDE]

,,

[Genome]

This game is not the most exciting one I'ver ever seen!

Btw, where is my co-commentator Genome? In the bar???

I might have been better off joining him than watching this game! :(

Sadly enough my subscription for Greeklive had ended and I couldn't watch from my pc ... which I hated! Had to watch it on the telly, on the Belgian channel with stupid commentators. I really hated not being able to follow it on Phantis! :(

What a disappointment. What a lousy, bad game. We diserved to lose after that first half. What was that? Why that endless passing at the back? Why a 5-4-1? I understand we need to play to our strenghts but only defending (and not that good even) and not putting up a decent attack is just not worthy of the European Champions.

The Swedes saw through this and reacted calmly. Good for them.

We need to seriously step it up. I expect, nay, demand a win from this Greek team versus Russia and nothing less! They better deliver! :gr:

(Otherwise I'm flying to Austria myself to slap them all (including Otto) in the back of the head.)

[loup]

Before we string otto up

I think he is right

nobody did s%$#! out there

some dismal passes

no creativity

who played well offensively???

Charisteas worked hard

that is the only"compliment" I give to any of them

[mangas21]

almost like a grandfather in a rocking chair on a quiet evening...and a loud motorcycle roars by disturbing their solitary peace and tranquility.

:LOL:

i said this before the match....so its not "after the fact" criticsm....sweden came out expecting to be manhandled by the defending european champs........otto should have opened up with an offensive 4/3/3 scheme, set the tempo early and often and impose their will and some fear in the swedes....they could always revert back to a more defensive posture when needed....sweden must have been delighted at what they saw in the 5/3/2 with haristeas out wide...

i believe if this occured and we lost, otto's explanation of "we needed to do something different becuase everyboy expects a defensive posture" would have been much more acceptable than "my players suck and we would have been down 5-0 if we did not play defensively".....

first time i have heard otto publically criticise his team....not a good sign...