PAO's near future/moves: Dec '07 - Jan '08

[slick13]

the last couple of seasons pao have had a black christmass!

i really hope major changes is ahead.

[cyberfish]

we had to go down in the game for us to start pressuring. this is not the pao of old. we used to go into the pitch with determination to win. now we wait and see if we have a chance to win.

bullcrap

^^^ the most accurate description of this performance; it says it all.

This was not "others don't want us to win", but "we want to win but we can't".

Also, it can't be just the coaches and players. We changed many players and coaches in the last four years, but the team plays the same kind of football. It has to do with the front office organization, and with planning a season, and with evaluating talent, and having a direction, and with establishing goals, and with creating a winning culture. We have said this over and over again.

OTH, I still think we need to show some patience and accept that this year we are not going to win anything as we rebuild our winning culture. But the team has to give us something to believe in. It's hard to see the light in the end of the tunnel when we drive so slowly.

Horrible performance once again. It looked like our players moved in slow motion. Always second to the ball and lukewarm passion to beat the opponent to the ball. This game was painful to watch. A disjointed team with players that looked like third rate performers, against a team that was absolutely mediocre. If the players don't win their individual battles, it's impossible to win as a team.

That's what makes this defeat more painful. Panionios was a mediocre team that did not play dirty, and did not even blatantly chew the clock at the end to make us feel better. AGRRRRRR. Our player looked and behavied so bad to day I could rant for days.

I want to believe this is just a bad bunch of games. I want to wait and see this team get better. I want to see some fight but I don't. I am afraid this is another losing season.

[NikosVazelas]

i will not give up on this team. truth is we have 8 players out with injury and we have yet to be completely healthy which can only harm a teams chemistry. Yes we sucked today. but this is the same team that 4 weeks ago was first and looked unbeatable.

we need someone in the middle of the field to distribute the ball to salpi up front who always looks like the only one out there hustling.

And i wouldnt go as far as sayin that Morris sucks. In fact he was cuting down balls to djibbour all day. we just didnt have the determination.

its a good thing that we can still hoep for a cl appearance next year even if we finish 3rd. with the playoffs and all.SIGHHHHHHHH

[MadBoy13]

we need a gkoltzi big time... when salpi dont score we have problems... i hope tzigger do something about it...

[cyberfish]

I was under the impression that next year only the champion plays in the CL, and they have to qualify for the groups. Does anyone know for sure??

[athinaios]

yeah, I believe you're right. The champion will have to play another team to qualify.

Already for the following year this will change due to the points we're getting in Europe this season. Two teams will be in the CL in 2010.

[NikosVazelas]

u guys r wrong.

1st place team is in the 3rd and final qualifying round and 2nd place team starts in the 2nd round of qualification. 3rd team goes to uefa along with the cup winner

[cyberfish]

Nikosvazelas is right once again. :nw:

the champion will play in the Q3 round and the runner up will play in the Q2 round.

http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/19071.pdf (page 39)

Four CL qualifying games early on can throw the whole preseason training off. Panathinaikos FC is right to be aiming for an UEFA spot through third place this season :whistle:

[Tsoglani]

Nikosvazelas is right once again. :nw:

the champion will play in the Q3 round and the runner up will play in the Q2 round.

http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/19071.pdf (page 39)

Four CL qualifying games early on can throw the whole preseason training off. Panathinaikos FC is right to be aiming for an UEFA spot through third place this season :whistle:

Indeed this is going to happen but not next season.

Next Season we play only 1 Team in CL and this is going over qually.

[cyberfish]

Nikosvazelas is right once again.

[MadBoy13]

paixtes exoume.. kai kalous malista.. meta apo kairo pisteuo oti o pao fetos exei to kalitero roster ton teleutaion xronon... mono pou tou leipei einai enas epithetikos, psilos.. like CARREW!!! left back we have fyssa but i dont know why is not playing..

we need LB (after fyssa), CF psilo (pano apo 1,90 m), kai enan RB (gkalitsios sounds good to me) and maybe epithetiko xaf... but i can see nini and ivan plays in that position.. den mporoume na perimenoume allo ton gonzales

[athinaios]

Guys, I moved these posts from the Panionios thread because they were off topic, but very interesting though.

_________________________

I think we have a very good roster, compared to the recent many years.

But, do you think 1 or 2 new players will make the difference? I mean, how would the team play differently like we've done in the last 4-5 league games?

I don't see how 1 or 2 new additions would make us NOT waste a whole ##QQ!!#@ half like we did the other day.

It's a mentality thing. Internal culture of a champion. First you fix that and then you bring new faces. Otherwise, see for yourselves, you go to work for a company that has a "down" (depressing) internal attitude... Do you shine, or you just get with the program?....

PS> I'm AGAINST making drastic changes in the roster NOW. This is a disease to uproot whole roster every year. Not good for continuity, for establishing an identity.

And, even though I'm critical of Pesseiro, I believe he should stay and be supported by management.

[Tsoglani]

Guys, I moved these posts from the Panionios thread because they were off topic, but very interesting though.

_________________________

I think we have a very good roster, compared to the recent many years.

But, do you think 1 or 2 new players will make the difference? I mean, how would the team play differently like we've done in the last 4-5 league games?

I don't see how 1 or 2 new additions would make us NOT waste a whole ##QQ!!#@ half like we did the other day.

It's a mentality thing. Internal culture of a champion. First you fix that and then you bring new faces. Otherwise, see for yourselves, you go to work for a company that has a "down" (depressing) internal attitude... Do you shine, or you just get with the program?....

PS> I'm AGAINST making drastic changes in the roster NOW. This is a disease to uproot whole roster every year. Not good for continuity, for establishing an identity.

And, even though I'm critical of Pesseiro, I believe he should stay and be supported by management.

I agree in most parts of your post Athinaios but....

First of all some key positions like 10 seem to miss.

I know we have quite some players on this position but Peseiro seems to believe that they dont have a good 'katheti pasa' and so he sticks to the normal 4-4-2

(who knows maybe he sees it otherwise now that he used the 4-3-3 and it showed some betterment against the first half in Panionios)

If we get a good 10ari he will not have anymore excuses for stiking to the 4-4-2 with 2 DM's

A Kovacevic like Forward is aswell something that would change our team to a better one so that we at last can use some high balls we very often tend to play.

And above all a better player than Vyntra would make a change aswell.

What i generally have noticed is that Peseiro same as Munioth last year are not very versatile to change their used system in another one if needed by occasion and opponent. I may not be a coach myself but somethings even i know.

(I used to play some football managers and never did a season with only one system. My favourites where at home and against weaker teams 3-4-3 or 4-3-3 and in the restly games 4-4-2 with romvos) This we lack for quite some years now from our coaches.

I agree though that for the sake of consistency Peseiro needs to stick on the wheel for some time.(even though i am not very impressed yet from him)

[pao123]

http://www.sportime.gr/football_inside.asp...rticle_id=68187

interesting article...

for starters, i wanted to see victor stay with the squad this year and i wanted to see romero leave...but that is in the past, there is nothing we can do now..

most importantly..im interested in his comments about velic..personally, i never trusted the man either..we almost never hear about what velic is doing and what impact he actually does have on the team...i think he is more influecial then we realize and maybe thats a bad thing...the team has had similar problems since he was hired...we've changed coaches and some players, but still similar problems persist...maybe velic is to blame for this??

[athinaios]

That's a very interesting point about Velic. I don't know the man, and it's not exactly clear how much power he's got.

But, there's something wrong with PAO for many years now. I know it's the way the club operates. Tzigger gives the general directon and establishes the internal culture, but he's got his people to carry out his policies.

Do you think Velic has his ear? Big influence in the team?

[MadBoy13]

[athinaios]

As I'm writing this, PAO is ready to play OFI at Leoforos. An easy game in theory. We may win it easily, but our team has a serious problem dealing with the lesser teams. But why is it so? Here are some of my reasons (besides psychology, disinterest, etc)

We don't play with wingers, which I think it's necessary to unlock lesser teams that want to delay, destroy the play, are staying back defending all the time. Our midfield and sides converge to the middle of the pitch creating too much traffic.

We need to get players that can effectively use the wings.

We lack the ability to distribute the ball effectively to our strikers. The old Eki could do this, but today???!!

And, here's the difference beteween PAO and, say, AEK. We have trouble unlocking a lesser team and beat them. We end up wasting points all over the league which cost us the title, repeatedly. Last year we won most points in the derbies! What was the final point count??!!!! [don't answer, the truth is painful]

AEK, on the other hand, has the ability to break down such teams. This is what Oly did in the past too. But, when AEK faces a better team that wants to play and go for the win, it has a BIG problem! Isn't this the case? AEK has proved this over and over again. Not good in big games, but good when the bar is lower! Yet, maybe this will count more in the end. We got bragging rights last season only to make it to UEFA.... Couldn't even win a CUP FINAL against Larissa!!!!

Now gavroi are becoming more like PAO. They both can do reasonably well against better teams (including European), but are having trouble with the lesser Greek teams! ;) Although I still think we're the worst of the big three...

The Greek league is what it is. But, if you want titles and to play in the Champions League you must find ways to win.