loup Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 With Pap's downfall Otto's apparent crush on Kapsis makes me update my 23 to: Chalkias Nikopoolidis Kotsolis Dellas Kyrgiakos Antzas Giorka Spyropoulos Kapsis Gouma Toro Vyntra Basina Lagos Tsiolis Kara Kats Stelio Samaras Gekas Charisteas Salpigidis Amantidis Lybe Thats 24 - 1 too many defenders or no Lagos I think everyone would cut Kapsis - he is the 6th choice as CB - but Otto may perfer him at LB over Kapsis - so then Lagos or Spyropoulo would go home Vyntra????? A logical cut also but who is Ott's backup RB, I like Patsa or Toro there, but I'm not Otto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geok Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 With Pap's downfall Otto's apparent crush on Kapsis makes me update my 23 to: Chalkias Nikopoolidis Kotsolis Dellas Kyrgiakos Antzas Giorka Spyropoulos Kapsis Gouma Toro Vyntra Basina Lagos Tsiolis Kara Kats Stelio Samaras Gekas Charisteas Salpigidis Amantidis Lybe Thats 24 - 1 too many defenders or no Lagos I think everyone would cut Kapsis - he is the 6th choice as CB - but Otto may perfer him at LB over Kapsis - so then Lagos or Spyropoulo would go home Vyntra????? A logical cut also but who is Ott's backup RB, I like Patsa or Toro there, but I'm not Otto Reasonable selection.I agree with everyone about Kapsis. As for the 3rd goalkeeper, don't worry too much for EURO, because whoever takes the place will not feature anyway and after EURO, Chalkias will be the main selection. But the 3rd goalkeeper will be important after EURO so the choice of 3rd goalkeeper will also be extremely important, for the future. If Otto takes Kapsis (which I believe is a mistake, like all of you) and drops one from the middlefield, it will be a great mistake as we are already in need of extra people in the middlefield. I think Vyntra is more experienced than Spyropoulos and because the latter has not shown anything significant this year around, he could probably be dropped. But until EURO there is plenty of time, players form will change as well as performances and all this will be different. The friendlies will also be decisive as to which players will be considered as solutions from the bench. Lets wait a few weeks and we can be more precise then. :gr: :gr: :gr: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aekrossoponti Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 spyropoulos has significantly increased his chances of perhaps even starting by moving ot a big club. lets wait and see if otto pulls another torosidis :D kapsis as we all agree is a must drop. i would start to make a call for papastathopoulos as the lucky youngster to join the euro team. lagos unfortunately isnt ready but there is still time. i believe players like ninis are completely off. maybe dimoutsos could become an issue. stoltidis has earned his spot but will probably not be called, which is rather sad. of the established players only kapsis, vyntra and perhaps stelios could fall victim to the final cut. lets hope we dont see kapsis in the euro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levendi2000 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 i do not know if anyone has noticed a pattern with nikopolidis.. i think he is a great keeper with excellent reflex... however he is the most hopeless keeper in the air. the most shocking ive ever seen.. he doesnt time his jumps and runs when going to catch a cross.. some times he elects to punch instead of grab.. he also has the habbit of making outstanding saves with impossible shots but makes the biggest blunders out of the easiest shots.. eg. 4-1 turkey game i think sifakis had great potential but gets little club experience at oly.. which is a waste of great talent.. i think one of king ottos biggest mistakes is not adding a new goal keeper during the qualifiers and letting him progress and grow with experience.. instead he chose to stick with nikopolidis and chalkias who will soon need walking sticks to reach a few shots.. we needed to work on a new breed, before euro and before the 2010 wc qualifiers.. this did not happen.. but ill chose chalkias over geropolidis any day.. my question is.. are we going to stick to chalkias and niko who are mid 30s for the wc qualifiers? if not ... who can step up for greece? i think its very tricky to have a fresh blood keeper help us qualify for world cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geok Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Yeah, I agree, it is a big problem. We have observed nikopolidis and it is indeed true that he is not so good when the ball is high. I could imagine double figures if he played against Norway. He just can't do it. Mentioning this, he may be a better choice against Russia and Spain because they play with the ball down. But for the first game I would definitely choose Chalkias, as, from what I know, Swedes play similar to Norwegians. As for the squad, it is tough to select. But one thing is sure. The players that you select must all be able and capable of contributing depending on the opponent. From that perspective it appears that we have weakness (in quantity) in the middlefield. It is just not wise to have only 5 middlefields, as injuries or cards may kick in anyway and then you have limited choices (certain gloom and doom). We have an abudance of defenders (not all of which are useful at the moment, Kapsis for example) and we can drop someone there. Ideally, we need 2 playes in each position (or some special players, like Tsiartas' style that we had 4 years ago). I am not a coach, I just use common sense. If I were in place of Otto ( :LOL: :LOL: :blink: ) I would choose: Goalkeepers Chalkias Nikopoolidis Eleftheropoulos (just to make up the numbers, I wouldn't use him anyway. Chosen for his experience) Defenders Dellas Kyrgiakos Antzas Giourka Spyropoulos Goumas Toro Vyntra Middlefielders Basina Lagos (because we want to be able to attack) Stoltidis or Tsiolis Kara Kats Stelio Strikers Samaras Gekas Charisteas Salpigidis Amantidis Lybe but remember, I am not Otto :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: Friendlies would be used to test formations/styles against appropriate oppositions and the performance of solutions (players) who come from the bench. That should suffice. It is not time for testing new players (apart from Stoltidis perhaps, although I am 95% sure that he will not feature anyway). :gr: :gr: :gr: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levendi2000 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 who would you start as strikers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheLegend Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Yeah, I agree, it is a big problem. We have observed nikopolidis and it is indeed true that he is not so good when the ball is high. I could imagine double figures if he played against Norway. He just can't do it. Mentioning this, he may be a better choice against Russia and Spain because they play with the ball down. But for the first game I would definitely choose Chalkias, as, from what I know, Swedes play similar to Norwegians. As for the squad, it is tough to select. But one thing is sure. The players that you select must all be able and capable of contributing depending on the opponent. From that perspective it appears that we have weakness (in quantity) in the middlefield. It is just not wise to have only 5 middlefields, as injuries or cards may kick in anyway and then you have limited choices (certain gloom and doom). We have an abudance of defenders (not all of which are useful at the moment, Kapsis for example) and we can drop someone there. Ideally, we need 2 playes in each position (or some special players, like Tsiartas' style that we had 4 years ago). I am not a coach, I just use common sense. If I were in place of Otto ( :LOL: :LOL: :blink: ) I would choose: Goalkeepers Chalkias Nikopoolidis Eleftheropoulos (just to make up the numbers, I wouldn't use him anyway. Chosen for his experience) Defenders Dellas Kyrgiakos Antzas Giourka Spyropoulos Goumas Toro Vyntra Middlefielders Basina Lagos (because we want to be able to attack) Stoltidis or Tsiolis Kara Kats Stelio Strikers Samaras Gekas Charisteas Salpigidis Amantidis Lybe but remember, I am not Otto :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: Friendlies would be used to test formations/styles against appropriate oppositions and the performance of solutions (players) who come from the bench. That should suffice. It is not time for testing new players (apart from Stoltidis perhaps, although I am 95% sure that he will not feature anyway). :gr: :gr: :gr: Sorry to break it to you man but you dont switch goalies around in a 3 game win or go home group stage.Nikopolidis currently is the best option. He may not be as good in the air as chalkias but 1v1s penalties and shot stopping he is currently much better and overall a much better goalie. Plus to those who say he is trash he is one of the best goalies greece has ever had, im not saying the best but he is one of them. Wasnt he named in a starting 11 world lineup once on Fifa or UEFA or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheLegend Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 BUT stoltidis needs to be there. How can we have 6 strikers and call up only 4 midfeilders with ppl like Karagounis burnt out and particularly useless on ball distribution... He is just so useless recently... its terrible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loup Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Really shocked at the recent rush of love for Stoltidis I know we need mids but as others have said Patsa, Tsiolis and Antzas are valid replacements as defensive mids, and now Stelios is back to add numbers. If anything we need offensive mids, distributors of the ball like Basinas I would say that the team loses more if Basinas goes out compared to any other player (maybe Kyrgiakos is as irreplaceable) as there is nobody on the squad who could replace him, and I don't think that Stoltidis fits the bill here - but really I don't know anyone who is on the team or is close to being called up that can play offensive mid at this level Kats and Kara have roles but neither moves the ball as well as Basina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 goalies is an iffy subject. it can change on a weekly basis. if niko cops 3 goals against some superleague team and then gets shelled against chelsea or even loses 1-0 but the goal he gives up is a softie, the tide will change. Niko was and always will be a great keeper. but u can look at euro 2004 where he faced less shots than anyone. HEs in good form now but all it takes is 2 bad performances and it switches. we dotn have a keeper like Cech. someone dominating AND young Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheLegend Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Really shocked at the recent rush of love for Stoltidis I know we need mids but as others have said Patsa, Tsiolis and Antzas are valid replacements as defensive mids, and now Stelios is back to add numbers. If anything we need offensive mids, distributors of the ball like Basinas I would say that the team loses more if Basinas goes out compared to any other player (maybe Kyrgiakos is as irreplaceable) as there is nobody on the squad who could replace him, and I don't think that Stoltidis fits the bill here - but really I don't know anyone who is on the team or is close to being called up that can play offensive mid at this level Kats and Kara have roles but neither moves the ball as well as Basina Basinas is a DM.Stoltidis is needed because he is currently plays classes above every other in feild player for Greece... only one who can compare is Nikopolidis Nikopolidis and Stoltidis are having the seasons of their careers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geok Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Stoltidis deserves at least a friendly call up, %100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loup Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Really shocked at the recent rush of love for Stoltidis I know we need mids but as others have said Patsa, Tsiolis and Antzas are valid replacements as defensive mids, and now Stelios is back to add numbers. If anything we need offensive mids, distributors of the ball like Basinas I would say that the team loses more if Basinas goes out compared to any other player (maybe Kyrgiakos is as irreplaceable) as there is nobody on the squad who could replace him, and I don't think that Stoltidis fits the bill here - but really I don't know anyone who is on the team or is close to being called up that can play offensive mid at this level Kats and Kara have roles but neither moves the ball as well as Basina Basinas is a DM.Stoltidis is needed because he is currently plays classes above every other in feild player for Greece... only one who can compare is Nikopolidis Nikopolidis and Stoltidis are having the seasons of their careers I'd call him more of a central midfielder- he does drop back but he is the closest thing to a distributor that we have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheLegend Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Thats cuz karagounis cant perform midfeild duties. He loses the ball and never wins it back. I hope Stelios starts to play again and we get karagounis on teh bench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OFI-mtl Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Thats cuz karagounis cant perform midfeild duties. He loses the ball and never wins it back. I hope Stelios starts to play again and we get karagounis on teh bench I agree why do we need 3 central mids, and none are of the attacking mode. I believe Katsouranis and Basinas can hold the middle and we should flank them.Hopefully Spiropoulos impresses enuff with friendlies and Panathinaikos games to push Toro to right mid and we can play Stelios at left mid like in 04( not my 1st choice but Lagos is not ready to start). If we go 4-3-3 then Amanatidis fts the left with Toro Basinas and Kats.Ade Spiropoulos open some eyes and win the LB spot. Karagounis does not fit the bill as a 10. He never attacks and fights his way thru to set up strikers, he plays to dive or he is moving sideways or backwards. Play Stelios 1st half and then act accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympiakosthyra7 Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 UEFA.com ARTICLE Greece bearing gifts for Stoltidis Friday 1 February 2008 I eroklis Stoltidis has received a first Greece call-up under Otto Rehhagel ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEK-MTL Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Let's be honest here. We all know the team Otto will use at the Euro. IMO, these games are more to see who might make an impact for the WC2010 qualifyers. It will be after this Euro that the new generation will truly need to be integrated as guys like Dellas, Stelio, Karagounis, Nikopolidis will surely be done (if they aren't already). Sure its nice to see call-ups for Papastathopoulos, Papadopoulos, Hristodoulopoulos, etc. but these guys don't have a hope of playing 1 minute at Euro (or even going) and everyone knows it. Personally, I don't think the young guys are ready for prime-time yet anyway. The only player who I think has a shot at cementing his place for the Euro would be Stoltidis, and then likely as a sub (along with Tziolis). I think Lagos might also have a slim chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheLegend Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Actualy Karagounis and Dellas are done but Nikopolidis if he keeps up can defintly play in WC qualifyers Stelios can too if he moves to a smaller club and plays more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loup Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 http://www.rsssf.com/tablesg/grk-intres01.html check out the lineups otto used in the friendlies leading into 2004 what I saw of interest -Tsartas was still starting many of the games, his role as supersub was not redefined until the tourney started -Katsouranis had ONLY THREE CAPS prior to the friendlies, and played his way not only onto the squad but we all know how vital a role he played in Portugal, will there be another player who will impress Otto so much in the next few months that he will be the wild card that will let Otto to mix up his lineup (imagine if Spyropoulos did play well so that Toro could move up to mid, or if Lagos shines and Kara gets moved to the bench so we have a bench with Samara, Kara, Stelio, and Lybe, holy s%$#! we could go down 2 goals and never have to fear that the game was over) -Dabizas' injury gave Kapsis time to play in a 4-4-2 with Dellas, how important was that? Well ,during the qualifiers Otto had felt that he needed 5 defenders against Ukraine and Spain, but Kapsis' play allowed him to play 4 mids most of the time -Papadopooulos also worked his way onto the squad, having only played in 1 friendly in 2002 prior to the 2004 run-up Really what I take away from this is that Otto may be ready to tweak the linueup/formation more than I has thought he would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geok Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Before this discussion gets too hot, I suggest that we wait and see the 2 friendlies and within a few days we can post suggestions based on some facts. Otto has surprised us all with his callups and he seems to become more flexible than in the past. But before I can say anything, I need to wait for these friendles. After I can say more. I'll be seeing our WC2010 opponents against England on Wednesday. I am curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 I don't think many of the players Otto called for these friendlies will make the final cut. I almost feel as if he called all these players so people will stop complaining :P There was a thread here called "why hasn't he called Stoltidis". Well, it's not official yet, but our wait seems to be finally over. The coach called his name, and the player, after a long pause, spoke. He feels forced to grace the NT with his presence. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheLegend Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Or the fact that players in the past have goten themselves and clubs in trouble for refusing an NT callup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aekrossoponti Posted February 7, 2008 Author Share Posted February 7, 2008 i think it all comes down to this 28 player squad. Goalkeepers Nikopolidis Chalkias kotsolis/michailidis Defenders Dellas Kiriakos Antzas Goumas kapsis papastathopoulos a. papadopoulos Toro Spyropoulos Lagos Giourkas Patsa Vyntra Midfielders Basinas Katsouranis Karagounis Tziolis Stelios Makos Strikers Charisteas Gekas Lympe Amanatidis Samaras Salpi i would hope otto drops kapsis. we wouldnt really need vyntra as well. probably makos wont be included in the final 23. which leaves us at 25 players. since i don t see otto taking both a.papadopoulos and papastathopoulos, i would hope he at least take the aek kid along. so we are at 24 players. of course dropping antzas or goumas could be a possibility but they are somewhat proven especially goumas and experienced. i think i d rather drop antzas instead of goumas. but id be surprised if otto does especially after the turkey game. this should mean otto will have to drop either stelios or lagos or leave either salpi, lympe or samaras at home to complete his 23. in that case perhaps its wisest to drop stelios. i am unsure whether lagos is ready. but stelios seems to have little left to offer. otto on the other hand always loved stelios but as of late even he gave him little playing time. maybe a hint of a farewell? your views? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxiotis7 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Otto has a tough time saying gooodbye to his favs... i dont really want stelios in the team but I think he will. Hes not a bad player but the he brings experience leadership and hes always hardworking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aekrossoponti Posted February 8, 2008 Author Share Posted February 8, 2008 excellent post! i believe and hope you would probably also drop kapsis and vyntra. so that would still give us two spots on your squad. who would you take along as the last two then. personally i probably wouldn t drop all of antzas, goumas, and lympe. although i understand where you are coming from. in international play lympe actually did well speaking of his effectiveness. so it could make sense to bring him along especially since there is probably no other sixth striker that comes to mind. at aek he doesnt do anything at the moment. perhaps i d take patsa and lympe of the guys you chopped with goumas and antzas runners up for the last two spots. i am sure about papast´hopoulos. tro me he is a must but still a bit unsure about a. papadopoulos. i dont know whether i would prefer an at least somewhat proven veteran instead of the aris player. as for the 5-3-2: this would surprise me UNLESS otto finds another way to include his three bundesliga favourites gekas amanatidis and charisteas. the only way i see is dropping karagounis and fielding amanatidis in his place which i doubt. or dropping gekas which is more unlikely and probably wouldnt be a good idea. in any case a back line of ......................................dellas......................... giourkas...papastathopoulos...kiriakos..spyropoulos would be hard to beat for any team i guess. staying with the 5 in the back perhaps otto could field something like .....basinas...katsou .........amanatidis in midfield with gekas and charisteas as the striker up front. still i doubt it. what a waste to have a guy like toro on the bench but there probably is no other option. interestingly enough and on a side note germany coach loew was praised for his "modern idea" of playing podolski as winger in a german 4-3-3 against cyprus. out of position on the left by the way. football journalists were saying this was a new tactical feature that has its origins in south america. ole otto has been doing this all year :D i don t know what to make of this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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