Boxou
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Posts posted by Boxou
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Retsos out for 6 weeks. Considering Papadopoulos is also injured I can definitely see Mavropanos getting called up and perhaps Siovas. But I'm sure Skibbe will take advantage of this situation and call up Tzavellas instead ?
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We're in a better shape than the 2013-2016 period where the only teams that could do something in Europe where Oly and Paok. Asteras and Panathinaikos made the EL a couple of times but the points they collected were minimal.
Recent years Oly has weakend while Paok got more power and most importantly Aek is back.
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Ο Αστέρας απλά δεν μπορούσε να βάλει γκολ με τίποτα. Έπαιζε ένα ημίχρονο με παίχτη λιγότερο και παρόλα αυτά έιχε 5-6 καθαρές ευκαιρίες για γκολ. Από ανικανότητα του κάθε Ιγκλέσιας που δεν μπορεί να την σπρώξει στο πλεκτό μπροστά στη γραμμή, στα χαμένα τετ α τετ του Δουβίκα και τον ρεφ που έπνιξε 2 πεναλτάρες, ένα χέρι και μια ανατροπή. Κυριολεκτικά κρίμα, αν σκεφτείς πως και στην προηγούμενο έφαγαν γκολ στο 90 φεύγα.
Και είχαν και σχετικά ΟΚ κλήρωση με την Νορβηγική Μόλντε στον επόμενο.
Ο Ατρόμητος από την άλλη είναι αρκετά limited φέτος, Ντιγκινί-Ουάρντα είναι μεγάλες απώλειες και φάνηκε και στα 2 παιχνίδια που επιθετικά ήταν νωθρός. Τώρα να μην μπορείς να κρατήσεις μισό λεπτό και να το τρως στο 95 από τους ανύπαρκτους είναι ξεφτίλα.
Αυτοί θα βγουν και του χρόνου Ευρώπη, όπως και τα επόμενα 2-3 χρόνια θα είναι οι ίδιοι και οι ίδιοι. Το θέμα είναι ότι ο Αστέρας κάνει πάντα καλό σκάουτινγκ σε Αργεντινή-Ισπανία και με λίγο μεγαλύτερο μπάτζετ θα μπορούσε να μπει ομίλους του χρόνου γιατί έχει καλό προπονητή.
Ο Ατρόμητος όσες φορές έπαιξε ποτέ δεν έκανε το βήμα παραπάνω, το πολύ να περνάει ένα γύρο και μετά τέλος. Μακάρι να επιστρέψουν γρήγορα Παναθηναϊκός και Άρης.
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8 minutes ago, La Mendel said:
Skibbe called them (or several of them) up in May and they made Saudi Arabia (one of the worst sides at this World Cup) look like Brasil. Risvanis was there, Im sure.
The friendly you talking about had only Greek superleague players. And even so the likes of Fortounis etc where not available either. So it's natural players from Atromitos and Asteras.
Don't worry we're not seeing any of them being a part of the actual NT in September.
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We could say they were both unlucky but on the other hand you can't rely on luck to get past Scottish and Belarussian opposition, especially when you concede 90th+ minutes goals and or blow a 0-2 lead. Im not sure there's any better team coming through, Panathinaikos will struggle to finish top-5 for the next 3-4 years or so and Aris shouldn't be able to make a case in the near future either. So it will be Atromitos/Asteras/Panionios/Pas Gianenna claiming the 4th and the 5th spot for long time.
We should get familiar with the idea that 90% they're getting past a couple of rounds let along making the EL group stages. Which is sad when you see teams of similar strength being able to do so. Atromitos and Asteras did nothing to improve their teams this year, especially Atromitos weakend a lot.
Damn, those idiots ruined the coefficiet, we had the chance to climb up to 2 positions in the rankings. Nevertheless our goal should be to remain in the first 15 countries. We are 16th at the moment, trailing 75 points to Czech Republic, 200 to Switzerland and 1100 to Denmark. We could even pass Switzerland and Czech Republic on Wednesday (a victory gives 200p in the qualification rounds and 400p in the group stages). If Paok and AEK make the CL we'll be awarded 800 points for each one of them.
If we fall to 16th position we'll have only 1 team in the CL and 3 in the EL, all of them starting their games one round earlier than what they started this year.
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Yeh I mean I wasn't happy watching them going out either but nobody called these players promising, let alone NT material.
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Every time Lazaros entered the field Aek were more dangerous and had more chances to score.
Calling a player consistent doesn't mean he'll be scoring goals week in and week out especially talking about a winger. You don't expect from today's wingers to be regular scorers but but creating opportunities.
Despite that I think he scored more than 10 goals in the last season.
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I talked about Limnios in the other thread, him and Donis should be our starting wingers in the upcoming games. Lazaros is more solid when he comes off the bench so he'll provide us energy in the second half that we really lack. The other winger could be.
Also at the moment we seen to have 3 more or less equally good attacking midfielders in Pelkas, Mantalos and Fortounis. Imo Pelkas should be starting atm with Fortounis coming off the bench and Mantalos could be also used as a number 8 player.
Mitroglou and Karelis to play up front.
Our midfield should be Galanopoulos-Samaris-Tachtsidis-Kourmpelis and Zeca.
Sokratis-Manolas-Retsos-Mavropanos the CB line up, with Mpakakis, Stafylidis, Torosidis and Lykogiannis being the full backs.
Karnezis-Mparkas the main goalkeeping duo, I hope Kapino takes his chances in Werder but I am doubtful about that. Gianniotis as a third choice.
I believe that's a good squad to call up.
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2 hours ago, Dean97 said:
All I was trying to state was that Ninis with the ball can do things that our current players can't. It's a shame that his career has turned it out the way it was. Also why not talk about Ninis in this thread? I don't think he deserves to be put in the starting 11 right now because that would be unfair to other more hardworking players. Now if people want to be fixated on that he hasn't played consistent minutes since 2012 than thats fine. But do we all agree when Ninis has played and with his abilities he far better than most of our players on the ball?
Torosidis is passed it in my opinion. He can't do the job at right back anymore. He has gone slower and not the player he was. There is a lot of people here who don't like putting players in other positions and I respect that. But why not try and be a little open minded? Why not try different things? Why should we be so quick to s%$#! on different ideas, who are you a coach? Where all fans at the end of the day. We want the best for this team. But I pinch a nerve about Ninis and suddenly Ive lost my mind.?
In the other forum we speak with an open mind and we don't attack people with silly comments and try to offend someone. We talk like mature people and discuss opinions with no harsh attacks. Who is anybody to talk down on anyone for their opinion. There are many people who agree about what Ninis can bring to the table. Fetfatzidis too. It's absolute criminal that Fetfatzidis hasn't playedfir the national team since 2015. He had a better goal to game ratio than Mantalos.
Here are the facts for players in the national team:
Ninis: 32 appearances 3 goals
Fetfatzidis: 25 appearances 3 goals
Gianniotas: 8 appearances 2 goals
Now let's go to our current players.
Fortounis: 33 appearances 3 goals
Mantalos: 19 appearances 2 goals
Bakasetas: 13 appearances 0 goals
Lazaros: 32 appearances 1 goal
As you can see Ninis and Fortounis are nearly neck and neck with the same amount of goals but Ninis with 1 less appearnce. The most effective looks like Ninis by one game. But you can say it's even.
Fetfatzidis beats all 4 of our current options due to less games and more goals.
Gianniotas and Mantalos share 2 goals each. With Gianniotas proving to be more effective with 11 less games.
Lastly Lazaros has 32 appearances with only 1 goal and he is 32 years old! Ninis, Fetfatzidis and Gianniotas have had the same or less amount of games with more goals and are younger!
Ninis, Fetfatzidis and Gianniotas have proven over the years that they are more effective than our current midfielders/attackers.
Also with Ninis possibly returning to the GSL and Fetfatzidis already at Olympiakos we could see them back in the near future. Also Gianniotas might be playing in la liga. If our current 4 can start scoring goals than Ninis and co don't have to be included in these discussions.
Fitness and game time is an issue with Ninis but when he returns for the new season he should be ready. Also no excuse for Fetfatzidis not getting chosen now.
We can just agree than until 2013 Ninis was sort of valuable for the NT. And yes he has talent. But that's pretty much about it. He's done totally nothing the past 5 years, how could you say he deserves to be in this team, let along being a starter? When was the last time you watched Ninis playing? We demand from our team to be a regular in major tournaments yet people suggest Ninis as a possible solution? He's past this level, he's been without a club for a while but it's a crime that we don't call him up? I suggest you to tell me what's so impressive on Ninis current form that we should look him up.
And if you're going to say that he was good 5 years ago and he is skilled with the ball, then why don't call up Samaras too, right? Nevermind he's been playing semi-professional football ever since 2015 and has been a journeyman in USA and Turkey's B division as well as the exotic Saudi Arabia? Samaras is the closest thing on current Ninis to give you an example. We are not going to give someone a call up because he used to have a "name" in our football in 2014. The last thing I'm going to tell about Ninis and I'll end it here because I've been sick trying to prove he's not NT material, is that I'm willing to have a bet with you is that if he ever lands up to the Greek superleague again it would be for a mid table side at best and guess what, he won't be the difference maker you think he will.
Please, the stats you are posting here are useless. What does it mean if Ninis scored 3 goals for the NT 5-6 years ago? Maybe according to this logic these guys should be perennial call ups, because they had some talent in their early 20's.
About Fetfatzidis, you're saying that it's a shame he has not received a call up since 2015. We've been again into this and I'll just say that all this time he wasn't even playing real football in Saudi Arabia, how the fcvk he can be a difference maker in a national team that aims to qualify for the WC. If he manages to be a rotation player in Olympiakos you and me should be more than happy, because he's going to have strong competition ahead of him (Lazaros, Podence and perhaps Markovic will all be ahead of him). And heck I just forgot Pardo. At the moment Limnios of PAOK deserves a call up more than any Gianniotas, Fetfatzidis and Ninis of this world. The kid is a starter since January in a side that are close into qualifying into the CL and are about to be a force in Greece too.
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Pote den eixame tetoio paixth sto kento. O teleutaios pou thymamai einai o Tsiartas kai autos einai dekari. Kai den nomizw na vgaloume kai pote, uparxei thema sthn paragwgikh diadikasia gi auto kai vgazoume amyntikous me to tsouvali kai kana-dyo akraious pou einai borderline top-5 league material. Gia center for den to syzhtaw kan, teleutaios htan o Karelis kai prin apo auton o Gekas. Eytyxws pou o Mitroglou emathe mpalitsa Germania, auta gia na deite pws douleutai enas paixth me to IQ kai th mpala pou (den) kserei o Mitroglou se sovares ypodomes.
Sto nations league oi antipaloi den einai tipota megathyria wste na mhn mporeis na valeis th mpala katw akoma kai me Zeca/Samarh sto kentro, terastia eukairia na paroume peripou 12-14 pontous apo auta ta paixnidia, kerdizontas ola ta entos kai isws kapoia Estonia ektos, poly kalo to oti paizoume poly nwris to ektos (8 septembriou) kai den tha mas faei o pagetos toy Noembriou. Oi Ouggroi kai oi Finlandoi einai aprovleptoi, tha ksekinhsw me vash to X kai vlepoume.
Na pw gia osous den kseroun oti h omada pou tha parei tous perissoterous vathmous anamesa kai stous 4 omilous tha paiksei entos edras KAI ton hmiteliko KAI ton teliko o opoios dinei eishthrio gia to Euro. Xazeua prin apo ligo ta alla group kai mou fainontai ola arketa isorrophmena, den nomizw na parei kamia omada panw apo 14 vathmous. Exoume to pio eukolo group kai mia terastia eukairia mprosta mas gia na paroume panw katw 15 pontous pou thewrw aplhsiasto noumero gia opoiadhpote prwtoporo apo tous allous omilous. Kai gia tou logou to alithes, oriste kai ta group peran tou dikou mas.
A Omilos; Skwtia, Alvania, Israhl
B Omilos; Ellada, Ougkaria, Esthonia, Finlandia
G Omilos; Slovenia, Voulgaria, Kypros, Norvhgia
D Omilos; Servia, Roumania, Maurovounio, Lithouania
Tavani oi 12 pontoi gia ton prwtoporo kathe omilou, plhn tou dikou mas pou pisteuw oti einai o eukoloteros, stous allous yparxoun dyskoles edres kai oi legomenes "mikres" tha kanoun zhmies.
Ta pragmata einai apla, mazeueis 14-15 pontous kai exeis to kefali sou hsyxo, eksafalizeis prwtia kai kata 99% hmiteliko kai teliko sto OAKA (logika). An den perasoume tha einai egklhma, an kai oi Servoi einai fanera anwteroi apo emas einai megalo avantaz to na paizeis tetoia paixnidia entos edras.
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9 hours ago, georgelaz said:
galanopoulos but he got called. barely plays though
Samaris is quality though when he's in form he's our best cm/cdm
Galanopoulos is around only for about 1 year. I asked for you guys to tell me who deserves a call up more than Samaris who according to you doesn't belong to the NT ever since 2015. Can you name 1 guy that has been constantly overlooked for Samaris?
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I can't believe what I'm currently reading! To begin with, I'll say it once again so all of you can understand. Ninis DEFINITELY doesn't belong to any of the top-7 sides in Greece AT THE MOMENT. He's good for some Larissa or Levadiakos if that's you want to hear.
I simply don't care what kind of prospect he was 10 years ago, today he looks like an ex-football player who has lost the desire of playing professional football in a "high" level which is obvious by the fact that his last team was a relegation side in Israel, a league which is worse than the Greek one. Let me remind you that before he signs for them he was also KICKED OUT by club in Belgium, Mechelen, which all of sudden got relegated this year.
Secondly, Ninis played in Greece from 2013 to 2015. One year to Paok and one in Pao. Again, in none of these average sides he could establish himself as a starter. Friendly reminder his contract was terminated by both teams way before its duration was over.
Also I hope you joking when you saying that Ninis in form is a better player than Mantalos and Samaris. When was the last time this guy was in form, was it in 2013? He's been totally irrelevant ever since then. I'm not claiming that Mantalos and Samaris was world class material but they've had FAR better careers than Ninis hands down.
Onto the next topic.
1) The league a guy plays OF COURSE matters. I've said it plenty of times Tziolis is a mysterious case and he shouldn't be the rule but the exception. You argue that, for example, someone who an irregular starter in Germany has the same chances to get called up with someone who plays for a club in freaking Saudi Arabia? Well at least I know that doesn't happen in serious NTs, in which I don't consider ours to be ever since 2014. And don't get started with Belgium or Brazil and their players in China, these guys went to play there only for the cash to flow. They could play wherever they'd want. Unlike Tziolis or anyone like him who ended up in Saudi Arabia because NO team from the developed part of the world was and will ever be interested in his service.
2) Torosidis can't be used as a DM. Not as a sub neither as a starter. He's precious for the leadership he provides and he can be a part of this team until Tsimikas completely overtakes him. Fortunately we have some guys in his position who are still young, like Stafylidis, Mpakakis, Lykogiannis, Tsimikas and Koutris to say some. I also don't think Torosidis can't be useful against the likes of Estonia, Finland and Hungary which we're going to face next couple of months. Are these teams really world beaters that someone like Torosidis would be a liability if being used? Definitely no for me.
3) Aside of Sokratis and Manolas, other players who play in a high level are Karnezis (signed for Napoli, played the 2nd part of the last season with Watford as a starter), Donis (irregular starter for Stuttgart), Retsos (starter for Leverkusen, currently injured), Mitroglou (scored about 15 goals for Marseille last season even if his playing time was minimal. Here it is, you asked for one and I stated 4.. Sokratis and Manolas might be the only world class players we have but they are not the only players who play in a high level (aka top-5 league)
5. I'll say this and I'm over, sorry for the long post. If Ninis and Donis were "high IQ players" then they would have done FAR better career choices than what they actually did. I dare you to say us what's so impressive in their career that they deserve a place to the NT just because they were promising as youngsters. Unfortunately talent is not the only way to go through, my friend. You need to put hard work in order to succeed, and that's something none of them was able to do. That's why they are not high IQ players, if they were a little bit smarter they wouldn't be looking as overwight ex-footballers who play in the exotic Israel and Saudi Arabia. Fetfatzidis might establish himself as a rotation player in Olympiakos but that's definitely not a career to be proud of.
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For the sake of god, Ninis couldn't make a case in the greek superleague NEITHER in Paok NOR in Panathinaikos when he came back to Greece in the 2013-2015 period I suppose.
I'll say it again, the last time I've heard of Ninis was a year ago when a relegation side in Israel wanted to get rid of him. I guess we have nothing more to talk about.
Also please, are you for real and you think Torosidis could be our starting midfielder ? ?? The guy has always been a RB/LB in his career, are we going to teach him how to play as a midfielder in the age of 33?
I just can't...
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People bashing Samaris because of his poor performances and claiming he shouldn't be around the nt ever since 2014 is a nonsense.
come on, tell me 1 player that has been overlooked only for Samaris to start/get called up. Only ONE....
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1 hour ago, Dean97 said:
I don't know but if someone can back me up on this but I remember Skibbe said Tziolis played very well but I can't remember which game. Tziolis has never had a good game for the Ethniki. Skibbe is In my opinion is a yes man to someone. Playing Zeca, Mantalos, Stafylidis and Bakasetas means he is not confident enough to play the right people for that position. It's understandable that you want to play Mantalos and Fortounis in the same 11 but Zeca doesn't have to be in the wing. What wrong with playing Pelkas on the wing or Gianniotas against Croatia in the 1st leg. That's just an example.
i think he was talking about his game against bosnia, where we missed both samaris and tachtsidis (he was in form that time) and we had to start tziolis for the first time in these qualifiers.
i also think he played ok in that game regarding the circumstances. (zeca had his first nt start as well, as well as kourmpelis recorded his first cap in the injury time). he had a couple of terrible mistakes but we didn't really surrender the midfield like we do against such opposition.
overall the blame shouldn't be on tziolis who plays up to his qualities, but to that clown skibbe who can't realise his qualities are not enough for us.
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Last time I heard of ninis was I think a year ago when some Israeli relegation side wanted to get rid of him...
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On 7/26/2018 at 8:11 PM, georgelaz said:
nice I'd do
karnezis
stafylidis manolas sokratis mpakakis
??? zeca
donis fortounis/mantalos lazaros
mitroglou
biggest question mark is that second cm/cdm spot. tachtsi/kourbelis/gala/samaris form pending.
from last season for it should be either tachtsi or gala imo but tachtsi's future is unsure and gala barely gets consideration from skibbe
Oh yeah screw me I totally forgot Donis..so obviously him instead of fetfaztidis.
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you simply can't rely on tzavellas, aside of the fact that his career has been on a free fall ever since he moved to bundesliga, the guy is also quite limited, hot-head and a turnover prone as it was proved in the game in zagreb. don't forget the fact he's also 31 years old and we have a plethora of better full backs coming up (stafylidis, tsimikas, lykogiannis, maybe koutris as well as mpakakis and the experienced torosidis). let's not exaggerate with a player that happens to be around because he's skibbe's favourite like his buddies tziolis and maniatis. actually i find it astonishing that these guys keep finding a place in the nt
nations league is a PERFECT opportunity to kick them out of the team.
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my squad for the nations league games starting of september would be something like that;
karnezis
stafylidis manolas sokratis mpakakis
kourmpelis zeca
lazaros pelkas fetfatzidis
mitroglou
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If anyone remembers I have been recommending a 3 in the back system since last November but given Skibbe has yet to try something else than the typical 4-2-3-1 I have totally given up...
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Vlachodimos has said he'd like to play for Greece, but Skibbe constantly ignores him ?
What do you expect from a guy that says our campaign was successful even though we didn't make it in the WC? Even Manolas went on public and said that since Greece is out, we have failed and anything else is a BS.
Belgium and Croatia making in into the semis is a whole another thing, as it was shown by our games against them, we were not bad and hadn't Skibbe fielded this ridiculous line up in the Zagreb game we could have gone to Athens with a chance to qualify.
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no action for greek football lately so i got a break. also i find it sad to post here when the wc is around and judging from the level of european teams there we are simply a level or two below them.
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on offense i think it's clear that our best playemakers are fortounis and pelkas so both should be a lock. lazaros and donis for starting wingers with fetfatzidis and gianniotas (so sad to say this) being their back ups. we have no other alternatives and so i didn't start to like them, anyone who thought they could be nt material will see how they'll do in higher level of competition this year (gianniotas' team got promoted to spanish la liga where it's likely he'll be a bench warmer and fetfatzidis signed for olympiakos, where the football is obviously superior than the saudi arabia league)
mitroglou and karelis locks for the striker position as well.
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i think if tsimikas manages to claim a starting spot in olympiakos this year, could easily be in the upcoming call ups. he's a modern full back, that we have been lacking lately and he's coming off a good season in netherlands.
tsimikas-mpakakis-stafylidis-lykogiannis could be our 4 defensive backs going to the nations league on september.
sokratis-manolas-retsos-mavropanos is what i'd like for the CB position, with karnezis-gianniotis-mparkas being the goalkeeper trio.
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2018-2019 UEFA Nations League C
in Greek National Teams
Posted
lazaros is a vital piece of a team that lacks wingers. i don't know why you are being harsh on him, it's not like we have a plethora of better choices than him. donis, limnios and lazaros should definitely be 3 out of 4 wingers and those who will take the most time in the pitch. gianniotas or fetfatzidis could be the 4th option but i don't rate any of them so as long as they're behind in the rotation i don't have a problem with them having a supporting role.
mparkas-karnezis-gianniotis
lykogiannis-torosidis
sokratis-mavropanos
manolas-siovas(retsos)
stafylidis-mpakakis
zeca-galanopoulos-tachtsidis
samaris-kourmpelis
donis-gianniotas
pelkas-fortounis-mantalos
lazaros-limnios
mitroglou-karelis