Lefkaditis

^^^ Blackhawk? Anybody?

I think the local media portrays "soccer" as a violent sport full stop (the fans that is). Whether it's racially motivated or not, they like to put the sport down whenever they can. This was highlighted by the MV / WSW trouble in the Melb CBD a couple of years ago - nothing to do with race or culture, just the fact it was soccer.

Very much agree about the Croatians. I've met some nice ones, but generally I find that there's always something "not quite right" about them. Not only the predisposition to violence (and extreme patriotism), it's more than that. Must be a genetic trait (or defect)? This was discussed in the other GS forum, but going to Somers St in the 90s to watch matches was not pleasant......just shut your mouth and hope nothing happens. Luckily most of the time we came away victors. As a player in the amateurs, the most violent people/clubs we came across were the Turks, followed by the skops. I'm generally not one to put anybody or any race down, but animals and peasants was the only way to describe them. I can recall a skop team from Altona, with players who regularly threatened to "f**k your mother and your sister".......luckily I never had a sister. This is why I say good riddance to the days of ethnic rivalries in football. Just thinking about it makes me sick.

I said those problems were gone with the A-League. Greekoz says the problems were gone a long time ago. Whatever, it's irrelevant now and might be an issue in the lower leagues. I don't know because I don't go to games.

Perhaps that is the case, but the mainstream did not attend games because many clubs in the final years of the NSL were still associated with or run by ethnic groups. When SM played Melb Knights it was still Greece vs Croatia, there's no doubting that. Going to Somers St, for example, does not have many good memories for me. I was a SM member for many years, and it was still a "Greek" club up till the demise of the NSL. I didn't think there was anything wrong with that, but lots of other people obviously did.

^^^ Violence is violence and there's no excuse for it, but there's a difference when it's racially motivated. Very different to defending your city or state or whatever. Can you imagine an Albanian-backed team fighting with a Skop-backed team in the streets of Athens, all over their politics and country of origin? Well that's what Australians saw here when Preston, Croatia, Hellas, George Cross, etc, had incidents at or after matches. I'm glad those days are gone, and hope they never return. Can you blame the "Aussies" for not going to games with all that s%$#! going on? And this is not an A-league vs NSL debate at all. It's about ridding the national league of ethnic tensions and rivalries, and that's what the AL has done.

With this current team all we can hope for is to **challenge** Oly for the greek title, and perhaps have a shot at the cup. Even if we qualify for the EL groups, I doubt we will go any further. Bottom line is the team is still not good enough. The new signings are unknowns (haven't seen much of Wemmer, apparently he was our worst against Brugge), Essien was signed only because of his name, wonder if he'll even play a game for us? Early signs are that Sanchez is a hothead and too slow.....what's the point, better off playing a young Greek in that position. No use arguing about who runs the club and what decisions they're making. If you don't have the money, you can't be successful. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Simple.

You make some good points. Many on here point to Asteras and Atromitos, and they should be admired, they have given Greece points and have done very well under the circumstances, but........ They are small clubs (Asteras from a smallish regional town), playing in stadiums holding 5-10K. They will always be small teams. The only clubs that can do it for Greece are the Big 2, and perhaps throw in AEK if they get back to where they once were. Paok are a lost cause, unfortunately, promise a lot, deliver nothing. Sometimes you can be clever with your spending, but you need a lot of LUCK as well, and it can only go so far. At the end of the day it's the money that makes the difference. Man City in the 80s/90s was a 2nd division club, relegation/promotion material. Same as Chelsea - rubbish. The middle eastern oil and russian gas made them the teams they are today.

Yes I agree, we have the fans and the passion, this will always be the case, but we have no money. We are still playing in a stadium that should be classified as heritage, should put bits of it in the Acropolis museum! Some new paint and render here and there, perhaps a few new seats, and we have a brand new home! When is the redevelopment going to start? Probably never. And that real leader will be very difficult to find in this current economic climate. The only thing that can save us, like a lot of the bigger european clubs, is some Arab or Russian with big bucks to come in and "show us the money"

I hope things improve, but when the country has no money, the clubs have no money, you slowly work your way DOWNHILL. No money, no hope. It's gradually happened to Italy over the past 10-15 years, they easily had the strongest league in the 80s and early/mid 90s - look at them now. I know it's not good to mention in a PAO forum, but if Greece didn't have Oly/Marinakis and his money, where would Greek football be? Pao were once the "European Team" of Greece, the team all of europe knew, now we're the paupers scrounging for food through the bins.....

@ JVC - Exactly, it's a snowball effect.....heading in the wrong direction. This has the potential to isolate us even more and bring us closer to the leagues of Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary, etc, etc, who rarely, if ever, have a team in the CL group stage. All we can hope for is Oly to maintain some sort of standard and perhaps qualify for a CL spot, otherwise the europa league is all we can hope for. At least we might get some points there to add to our coefficient! Hopefully we will be on par with Cyprus, even they seem to be overtaking us.....!

^^^ This conversation about the roots of the various Greek clubs, throw in the skops, Maltese and Serbs/Croatians as well......is only talked about by small insignificant groups (I suppose like us) who remember this stuff. It's all slowly disappearing and when the older crowd eventually dies off nobody will even think or care about it. It's not about 'ethnic haters' in mainstream football, I think this is also disappearing because the younger generation really don't know and don't care about the history of some of these clubs. And the positives (in my opinion) are that the younger generation are simply not as "racist" as the older folk - skip, skop, Greek, Cro or whatever.....and I'm not talking about Adam Goodes being booed at the afl. To me the "ethnic" rivalries of the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s are nearly gone (except at the very local and amateur level), and I say good riddance.

Yes but this is the worst result ever. The Brugge teams we played in the 80s and 90s were better than this one, but PAO was also a far better team than this second-rate outfit. Other than Berg, none of the players in today's team would get a game in the PAO teams of the late 80s / early 90s.

I think all the above = our teams are sh*t When you are struggling financially, with the only exception being Oly, you can't really expect a lot.

I reckon Essien = a lot of wasted money. He'll be laughing all the way to the bank (if it's open).....

Oh well.......unfortunately that is the team we are at the moment. No point in analysing, we were made to look like minnows by a very ordinary team. Lucky we didn't qualify for the next round because it would've been ugly.....

Yes, they currently have a watermark on their screen advising this.

Confirmed live for Australia 4:30am AEST

Confirmed live for Australia 4:30am AEST

Talk about counting chickens..... Our record against Brugge is not good. I can remember both ties against them. Anything can happen, but I predict a 1-0 or 2-0 loss. Hope I'm wrong. Funny, for the Greek Aussies to see Paul Okon in their lineup in the 1994 tie...

^^^ My father took me to watch Heidelberg games as far back as the late 70s (they were then known as Fitzroy Utd), and I don't recall any slavic links, although I was just a kid at the time. I'm sure there were some "Florina-type" supporters at the games, but all I recall hearing was the Greek language being spoken. PAOK/Aris supporters, for example, were perhaps more likely to support Heidelberg over SMH.

I agree, no doubt SM was head and shoulders above the other ethnic-backed clubs of the old NSL. I've had very little if nothing to do with the club since the demise of the NSL, and not really interested in the VPL, but the feeling I get is that while SM still has a lot of support from loyal fans, this has gradually waned over the years; the longer they're out of the top league, the more the club will "shrink". A lot of their fans have apparently switched to MV; don't know if they will return to the club if it was ever promoted? I hope I'm wrong, but I think SM have missed the boat for the AL, it's just too late to revive the club and push for inclusion. Talking to AL followers, their opinion of SM's chances of moving up is......."forget it".

Just an observation here guys.... This historical rivalry and micro-Greek-politics of local football highlights the reasons why Hellas wasn't even considered for the a-league. While it may be interesting for the hardcore supporters of each of these clubs, anybody other than Greeks really wouldn't want a bar of it....and are probably glad to be rid of this type of political baggage which plagues local football clubs run by ethnic minorities. Another example is the "hatred" between Green Gully and George Cross, with the Maltese backing. As long as this historical racial "tension" exists between these clubs, we will never have a Greek backed club in the AL (or any other ethnic backed club for that matter). This isn't being anti-Greek at all, just an observation (from someone with no links to the clubs) which I believe is the root cause of our clubs being entrenched at the lower levels.

I'll tell you why he went there. If they waved a million or more euros per season in your face, you would probably go as well. He wasn't playing in Italy and looks as though no other teams were really interested. Go back to Greece and play for Atromitos or whoever on a low salary and possibly not even get paid? Money talks, especially these days if you are Greek.

I believe the deal is done http://www.sport24.gr/football/EllinesExoterikou/sthn-al-axli-o-fetfatzidhs.3597800.html The middle eastern leagues aren't as bad as people think, they've attracted some big names recently. Better playing regularly than on the bench.