Osfp is already checking new players

[rock-star]

If you spend money, you win games. Simple as that.

Unacceptable for Kokkalis to be a billionare and us to have the 6th lowest payroll in Champions League.

6th lowest payroll in Champions League!

I thought you would be the lowest how much are you paying for Anatolakis and his pension mates!

face facts kokkalis is happy in winning the Greek league and by winning the CL money he will spend no more than half on the following year to buy players.

It happens year in year out1

[Olympiakara10]

I have faced the facts, I was just pointing them out.

[Olympiakosthyra7]

We need to start a fundraiser

haha

[Crazy]

[DUDE]

[Crazy]

Re ethnikisti since Sollied just left and Lemonis just got here who exactly wants or asked or needs this players????This is just what newspapers and some idiots do almost in every team,they get a list of players and then call there buddy up in the press and they say Pao wants that and Osfp wants this and goes on.Yia ta matia tou kosmou :whistle: Are you crazy kokkalis spending 12 mil EU now then how much he will need to spend in the summer 60?????

[dipapa]

I wouldn't mind to see some turkish players in my team, as long as they deserve it. I'm not such a narrow-minded ultranationalist to prefer a Brazilian, African, German, Croat or whatever distant nationality player than a neighbor with a common history of 400-800 years and much more common cultural elements than the most europeans. Ah yes, Turks did this and that but somehow a few of us conveniently forget the catastrophic interventions of Germans, Italians, Americans and British (to name a few).

Anyway, this is not a political forum. Please forgive me for the above, I wanted to vent my frustration for seeing the new generation still stuck in late 19th century mentality :tdown:

[pao123]

I wouldn't mind to see some turkish players in my team, as long as they deserve it. I'm not such a narrow-minded ultranationalist to prefer a Brazilian, African, German, Croat or whatever distant nationality player than a neighbor with a common history of 400-800 years and much more common cultural elements than the most europeans. Ah yes, Turks did this and that but somehow a few of us conveniently forget the catastrophic interventions of Germans, Italians, Americans and British (to name a few).

Anyway, this is not a political forum. Please forgive me for the above, I wanted to vent my frustration for seeing the new generation still stuck in late 19th century mentality :tdown:

nice post..i agree..if we want to progress not just in football but in life in general we need to remember the past and learn but not judge from it..i wouldnt mind a player like tuncay in the greek league..yes hes turkish, but hes also a good footballer and this goes for afew other turks as well..

[DUDE]

I wouldn't mind to see some turkish players in my team, as long as they deserve it. I'm not such a narrow-minded ultranationalist to prefer a Brazilian, African, German, Croat or whatever distant nationality player than a neighbor with a common history of 400-800 years and much more common cultural elements than the most europeans. Ah yes, Turks did this and that but somehow a few of us conveniently forget the catastrophic interventions of Germans, Italians, Americans and British (to name a few).

Anyway, this is not a political forum. Please forgive me for the above, I wanted to vent my frustration for seeing the new generation still stuck in late 19th century mentality :tdown:

:LOL:

19th century mentality? Most of us 'younger generation' still consider Cyprus Greek my friend, an island still being raped by Turkey and yet to want to hold a certain distance until their attitude changes is a 19th century mentality? :LOL:

As for the statement that there was a common history... :LOL: So do you assume that the Nazi Germans and European Jews have a common history? How about the Armenians and the Turks? You try to make yourself sound tolerant and accepting of the Turks as if you're a morally good man because of it, yet everyday Cyprus is marginilised and Orthodox minorities in Constantinople are persecuted everyday, but hey, who cares right? Let's all pretend that morality can only be found in ultra Liberalism and by caring about Cyprus you have to be an an evil ultra-nationalist right? :rolleyes:

You're right this isnt a political forum but sporting clubs are supposed to represent the fans of the club, a team full of Turks would no longer represent the fans. I mean could you imagine Red Star Belgrade filled with Croats :blink:

Anyway I'm off to get ready for a big night, hope everyone has a great New Year.

:gr:

[dipapa]

if we want to progress not just in football but in life in general we need to remember the past and learn but not judge from it..

This goes for Ethnikistis, along with a suggestion to read A LOT MORE history. From ALL sides. Then you may realize that nationalism is the root of many evils, hatred is one of them. But I don't hold any expectations from the likes of you. Really. And that's very disappointing.

btw, your example with Nazis and Jews was extremely fallacious. Are you suggesting that all modern germans are Nazis? Because I'm sure that you consider all modern Turks as your deepest enemies.

PS : if you ever read something more than school history, the ancestors of your british friends have raped Cyprus and Greece a lot more (the fighting between the two ethnicities is mostly due to them) but you obviously don't have a problem with it. I 'm also tempted to say a lot about what some Greek Cypriots had done to the other side but you wouldn't probably listen and, in any case, this isn't the best place for discussing it.

I wish you wuld ever understand that avoiding blind hatred isn't a sign of weakness, quite the opposite I would say. Anyway, have a nice year with less hate in it.

[DUDE]

This goes for Ethnikistis, along with a suggestion to read A LOT MORE history. From ALL sides. Then you may realize that nationalism is the root of many evils, hatred is one of them. But I don't hold any expectations from the likes of you. Really. And that's very disappointing.

LOL! First off, this is discussion is not completely unrelated to sport because it talks about the make up of the club and the concept of transfers. 2nd, I'm a History and Politics degree student in my final and have been given an unconditional offer for studying a Masters... thats to say not matter what grade i get I've been offered a place at one of the worlds top universities. Must have done something to impress them ;)

As for your criticism of Nationalism it is quite clear you have no grasp of what nationalism is. You seem to confuse it with Racism or Fascism... bear in mind that when a word ends in an 'ism' it is an ideology, communism, Liberalism, etc. So Nationalism is a whole diff ideology then Fascism or Rascism. Nationalism consists of the idea that a people are related through various factors: blood, religion, a common culture and history, etc. And that those people share a somewhat of a common interest which should be protected, i.e. the nation. So basically you take care of your own. THAT'S IT! Nothing more. There's nothing about a superior and/or inferior group of people (like Racism) it doesn't have the idea of political control (like Facism). The reason many assume that there is a link is because when manipulated Nationalists may become Racists, and Fascists used Nationalism as a political tool. But that would be the same as saying religion is inherently evil because certain religious/political leaders use it to commit atrocities.

btw, your example with Nazis and Jews was extremely fallacious. Are you suggesting that all modern germans are Nazis? Because I'm sure that you consider all modern Turks as your deepest enemies

No I'm not saying modern Germans are Nazis, but I'm responding to your claim that Greeks and Turks have a common history and culture. The only common feature is oppression, death and destruction, so i'm asking can you find a common history between Nazi Germans and Jews? As for considering Turks my deepest enemies, NOT AT ALL!!!!!!! If I saw a Turk hungry I would feed him without hesitation, if he was thirsty I'd offer him a drink. And I could quite easily have a 'friend' who was Turkish. However, as a collective nation the Turks have offered little to Greeks and indeed humanity in general other than destruction, if you doubt that then it is you that should read up on history. To this day Cyprus is persecuted by Turkey and until that is resolved a certain distance should be held.

PS : if you ever read something more than school history, the ancestors of your british friends have raped Cyprus and Greece a lot more (the fighting between the two ethnicities is mostly due to them) but you obviously don't have a problem with it. I 'm also tempted to say a lot about what some Greek Cypriots had done to the other side but you wouldn't probably listen and, in any case, this isn't the best place for discussing it.

I wish you wuld ever understand that avoiding blind hatred isn't a sign of weakness, quite the opposite I would say. Anyway, have a nice year with less hate in it.

If you read some of my past posts you'd know my opinions on the British ;) You have a nice year too, with a bit more knowledge in it! :LOL: As for the Greek-Cypriots, it was a war and evils were carried out by both sides. But bear in mind a few facts.

(1) Greeks have inhabited Cyprus since the early Neolithic Age. Since then, the prominent population, language, religion, and culture has always been Greek. The Turks only arrived when the Ottomans invaded and killed thousands and plundered the island.

(2) Following Greece's participation in WWI, the founding of the Atlantic Charter and the Cypriot participation in WWII, it was Cyprus' LEGAL RIGHT to acheive enosis.

(3) EOKA was a struggle against the English not the Turks or Turkish Cypriots and the first offence was made by the Turks and Turkish Cypriots, so when you speak of the evils that took place bear that in mind.

(4) EOKA B consisted of a minute section of the population, they were just as universally hated as Junta were in Greece.

So before you start implying criticism at the Greek-Cypriots, learn how to read, pick up a few books read. Yes from both sides, but make sure you dont read unreliable sources. Denktash for example claims that Turks inhabited Cyprus before Greeks and that Turks aren't of Mongolian origin but of European :whistle: So make sure you read a variety of sources, after all if you were studying the holocaust you wouldnt rely on Nazi documents.

[aekrossoponti]

KOKKALI THA MAS YEMISIS TIN OMADA TOURKOUS RE m#$%!???

F*** THAT! I'll stop following the team...

except for bulut not one turk is on olympiakos, the turk league rejects kleberson, nobre would be brazilian. i dont think any greek supporter would have a problem with appiah or alex on olympiakos.

i agree somewhat to your overall claim, but if you say this than you have to support lemonis and not some supposed euro coach like sollied who would prefer say tuncay to salpigidis. i would also prefer to have greeks play but if there is a good turkish player that wants to play for olympiakos..why not? him coming to greece would show that hes not some turk nationalist and thus why punish him for his ethnicity. i am sure few israelis would have a problem with ballack playing for hapoel.

you are right about the cyprus issue but the main problem i see there is the so called western powers (i.e. us, england, germany, france, israel etc.) and if any of them would have put on some kind of standing at any point i think history would have looked very differently. turkey can actually do as it pleases due to generous us, european+israeli support. what i fear is that "smart" eu-nations such as france, germany who doont really want turkey in the eu but lack the balls to actively prevent it will use greece+cyprus as the scapegoat in case of turkeys nonacceptance. thus turkeys whole frustration might be aimed at greece leading to further tensions whereas the eu comes off fine. they have been doing this for years using greece vetos..

having said that and moving back to sports in basketball having kutluay play for both aek (!!!!) and pao was actually a good move for both sides. i think most greeks dont have that big a problem with good turkish players at greek clubs . i mean bulut played for panionios. if you take the clubs history serious thats very strange but was no big deal actually.

both kokkalis and pao at some point actually wanted to get terim. but the deal didnt go through.

[DUDE]

KOKKALI THA MAS YEMISIS TIN OMADA TOURKOUS RE m#$%!???

F*** THAT! I'll stop following the team...

except for bulut not one turk is on olympiakos, the turk league rejects kleberson, nobre would be brazilian. i dont think any greek supporter would have a problem with appiah or alex on olympiakos.

i agree somewhat to your overall claim, but if you say this than you have to support lemonis and not some supposed euro coach like sollied who would prefer say tuncay to salpigidis. i would also prefer to have greeks play but if there is a good turkish player that wants to play for olympiakos..why not? him coming to greece would show that hes not some turk nationalist and thus why punish him for his ethnicity. i am sure few israelis would have a problem with ballack playing for hapoel.

you are right about the cyprus issue but the main problem i see there is the so called western powers (i.e. us, england, germany, france, israel etc.) and if any of them would have put on some kind of standing at any point i think history would have looked very differently. turkey can actually do as it pleases due to generous us, european+israeli support. what i fear is that "smart" eu-nations such as france, germany who doont really want turkey in the eu but lack the balls to actively prevent it will use greece+cyprus as the scapegoat in case of turkeys nonacceptance. thus turkeys whole frustration might be aimed at greece leading to further tensions whereas the eu comes off fine. they have been doing this for years using greece vetos..

having said that and moving back to sports in basketball having kutluay play for both aek (!!!!) and pao was actually a good move for both sides. i think most greeks dont have that big a problem with good turkish players at greek clubs . i mean bulut played for panionios. if you take the clubs history serious thats very strange but was no big deal actually.

both kokkalis and pao at some point actually wanted to get terim. but the deal didnt go through.

Geia sour re file, hronia polla.

File i could live with Kleberson playing for Olympiakos but Nobre has put in an application for Turkish citizenship so he can play for Turkey (similar to the Castillo situation here). Like I said, i dont care whether playing for a Greek club would prove he isnt a nationalist, i dont have a beef with Nobre as a person. Nihat is a better example... when Greece played Turkey at home Nihat was fouled by someone, i think it was Katsouranis. Immediately Nihat got up swiftly, tapped Kats on the back of the head and shook his hand. I know you cant judge someone by that but in a high occtaine game to do that suggests that Nihat is a nice guy. I have no problem with him as a person, in fact after that reaction i like him and i really rate him as a player. Nonetheless, like i said the club represents the fans and its not right for him to play for a Greek club because of the current political situation in Cyprus.

You gave the Ballack example, but in fairness the hostility from Germans to Jews existed from one evil regime which used fear to maintain power and manipulated the masses. The German people may have contributed through inaction but there wasnt a national hatred of Jews which lasted hundreds of years. Plus, the Nazis were defeated, Germany was disarmed and many Nazi Germans were brought to justice through the Nuremburg trials. Today, Germany has good relations with Israel. Whereas Turkey continues to persecute Cyprus, war criminals such as Kemal Akin have not been brought to justice, etc. So the situation is very different. Could you imagine a Croat signing for Red Star? Or a Jew signing for a Palestinian club?

From a footballing perspective these guys arent good enough anyway! I would take Maric over Kleberson anyday!

[Akritis_1944]

Way off topic, but....

Wanting to preserve ones cultural roots isn't evil or negative as some claim.

Ultra-nationalism mixed with religion (my brand of jesus is better than your brand of jesus) is far worse than being proud of your history and wanting to preserve it.

Sunni muslims have a tension with Shi'ites. Catholics don't tolerate Protestants.

Croatian catholics think they're better than Serbian Orthodox christians and vice versa.

then you have the rubbish worshipping mormons and jehovah witness' who would rather their children die than recieve a life saving blood transfusion. Also the evangelicals in the US are the wests answer to the taliban fanatics.

Religion is what is tearing the world apart.

[Akritis_1944]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up, but Kleberson who was formerly of Manchester United is average and a hack as a player.

Klebersons story goes something like this:

The Brazil manager at the time (Scolari) made some flippant comments about how great Kleberson was and this got blown out of proportion.

Then he was recommended to Alex Ferguson by a scout who confused him for someone else. They all thought the player was Kleberson, but as it turns out when he signed (for

[dipapa]

Ethnikisti, all I can conclude from your semi-illiterate speech about history and culture is that either you have a superficial grasp of what you 're studying or you are simply lying. Most probably the second because I can't imagine a single independent university where these paparies are still taught to their students outside of the context of the history of the evolution of european idealism.

I could easily refute your fallacious arguments one by one but, again, I don't really see why I could do that for you, in that place. Besides, your words are so contradictory that they refute one another.

(Greeks from early neolithic ... I'm still laughing. You forgot Atlantis and Epsilons. :LOL: )

Guys, that was the last words from me wrt to nationalistic posts in this thread. Next time I will look for the funny side of it. Bulut, you are my hero ! :LOL:

[DUDE]

Ethnikisti, all I can conclude from your semi-illiterate speech about history and culture is that either you have a superficial grasp of what you 're studying or you are simply lying. Most probably the second because I can't imagine a single independent university where these paparies are still taught to their students outside of the context of the history of the evolution of european idealism.

I could easily refute your fallacious arguments one by one but, again, I don't really see why I could do that for you, in that place. Besides, your words are so contradictory that they refute one another.

(Greeks from early neolithic ... I'm still laughing. You forgot Atlantis and Epsilons. :LOL: )

Guys, that was the last words from me wrt to nationalistic posts in this thread. Next time I will look for the funny side of it. Bulut, you are my hero ! :LOL:

Gallardo signed for PSG so it was all BS :(

[HOLLYWOOD]

Way off topic, but....

Wanting to preserve ones cultural roots isn't evil or negative as some claim.

Ultra-nationalism mixed with religion (my brand of jesus is better than your brand of jesus) is far worse than being proud of your history and wanting to preserve it.

Sunni muslims have a tension with Shi'ites. Catholics don't tolerate Protestants.

Croatian catholics think they're better than Serbian Orthodox christians and vice versa.

then you have the rubbish worshipping mormons and jehovah witness' who would rather their children die than recieve a life saving blood transfusion. Also the evangelicals in the US are the wests answer to the taliban fanatics.

Religion is what is tearing the world apart.

Very well said :nw:

Big respect for you there :nw:

[Crazy]

I believe that we should get the 2-3 greek players and go nuts summer time with international players.Right now our roster is full of them and many should get going and be replaced with new ones then as with our coach....

[aekrossoponti]

Geia sour re file, hronia polla.

File i could live with Kleberson playing for Olympiakos but Nobre has put in an application for Turkish citizenship so he can play for Turkey (similar to the Castillo situation here).

You gave the Ballack example, but in fairness the hostility from Germans to Jews existed from one evil regime which used fear to maintain power and manipulated the masses. The German people may have contributed through inaction but there wasnt a national hatred of Jews which lasted hundreds of years. Plus, the Nazis were defeated, Germany was disarmed and many Nazi Germans were brought to justice through the Nuremburg trials. Today, Germany has good relations with Israel. Whereas Turkey continues to persecute Cyprus, war criminals such as Kemal Akin have not been brought to justice, etc.

color]

xronia polla kai kali xronia ethnikistis!

i forgot that about nobre...true.

offtopic but the hostility between germans and jews wasnt just based on one "bad" regime. and german people contributed very actively... i agree though that germany under international pressure acknowledged SOME of their atrocities (there is still alot of open debt with greece for wwII), whereas turkey doesnt. but then there is no pressure on turkey to do so from any side except greece and armenia.

i believe national awareness AND orthodox religion are very important for greece, so i share your basic sentiment, i just think you may take it too far at times. nihat playing for olympiakso wouldnt be the end of the world. i mean kutluay played for aek and pao basketball clubs. there are bigger problems in greece today...

[js1000]

i wonder how the turks would feel about a greek player playing for 1 of the big 3 teams in turkey. do you think it could ever happen

[Crazy]

[Olympiakosthyra7]

[Nore]

Nice

[The2ndMouse]

Of course I am completelly opposite to the view by Ethnikistis and he knows it ...

You undermine a PERSONS abilities, mind, views, potential (and many more attributes) when you tag him a Turk, a Greek, a Jew, an Eskimo etc...

A nations history cannot detemine a persons path.

And dont rush to tell me that every citizen of a country supports his/her government by not acting against it because I will make you a list with things Greeks have to do so 3rd World Countries Children should not die from famine (and who would blame them if they see the whole "Western World" setup as murderous and hate Greeks among others).

Anyway... Views are welcome on those subjects, but not in here ...

We have a separate forum on these issues and the sports forum (we think) should not mix so much politics in it because 99% of the time the discussions go tremendously sour ...

On the subject...

I dont think nationality should be a problem for any player Olympiakos or any other Greek team signs...

AEK signed Savevski in a time when the Problem with the name of FYROM was at its peak and the serious stance of the man, his character, his footballing quality and his wise choices made him one of the most respected footballers Greece ever welcomed ....