bar7 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 time to pick it up or else........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 The Ionikos goals can be seen at http://www.sport.gr/football/hellas07/0608...826/paoion3.asp. The first one is an absolute howler. How did the keeper miss it? However, it is early days! PAO supporters should not be tearing their hair out just yet! TheGreek protathlima will be more competitive this season which is good for the game. It is clear on the videos that first goal of Ionikos is not a mistake of PAO goalkeeper Galinovic, but of player no 14 who musn't muve from the wall! In a such situation goalkeeper is prepered to save one side of the goal add the other side is guarded by the wall! An what goalkeeper can do if stupidone jumps out of the wall and the ball pass through!? OK, I am from Croatia, same as Galinović and Biscan, and Serić and Andrić, and am not happy whwn I have to read thet some of them is guilty for deefeat or played bad! Also, talking, about Biscan, I realy dont understand what PAO suportrrs is expacting of that man? To be goalscorer? What I know Igor BIscan during five years playing in LIverpool in more than 100 games in Premiership and Europe scored not more than 3 or 4 goals! Since BIscan is defansive midlfielder who also can play as stoper but he isn't a playmaker! So let him to play his position or sell him out! As Conecisao! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Vincent, in the foul, the Ionikos players performed the old trick of moving the ball one foot to the side in order to avoid the wall (one player kicked the ball softly to the side, another stepped on it to stop it, and then it was kicked). Once the ball is touched one player from the wall is supposed to run as close to the ball as possible to block the kick. This was Galinovic' fault since the shot was from really far away and was shot straight at him. The way I see it, that's the life of goalkeeper. Last week he saved some amazing shots, and this week he let the easiest one go past him. He did well last week, and he did badly this week. Panathinaikos can't afford too many of these blunders, and as many saves as Galinovic has, he is beginning to be known for the two or three blunders that have cost the team dearly. If I were management, I would be looking to bring in some serious competition at the position. As for Biscan, I think he has lost even his most patient of fans. It's not that anyone has unrealistic expectations of him. We know he is a DM and we want him to play like a world class player at that position (or as a Euro champ at least). Instead, he must be the slowest and most incompetent player PAO ever had at that position. I don't know the stats, but from what Iv' seen he is not defending very well at midfield, and he fails in his major role to move the team forward fast once we win the ball on defense. Very rarely he steals the ball, and he usually finds himself chasing the opposing midfielders from behind (he is too slow to catch-up) so our defense finds itself always exposed to extra opponents. Worst yet, if you watch the games Biscan has a very blase attitude. He acts as if it's someone else's job to mark opposing players at midfield. I don't mind Galinovic' play because he tries his heart out and makes the occasional mistake like all other players, but I do have problems with Biscan's play. Anric is 10 times better as a DM but he doesn't have the skills to move the team forward since he wins the ball and most often he gives it right back to an opponent. More to the point though: Many players make mistakes during the game, and the sign of a great team is how it overcomes them. Panathinaikos last year and this year has shown no signs of being able to overcome individual mistakes or bad luck on the pitch. "Zaman-Foo" attitude by many players, bad preparation, and lack of leadership on and off the field is what has plagued this team. I remember the years we won the championships with Rotsa as the coach. Then, most teams scored first against us, but no one was ever worried. We knew that there was no way we would lose the game... I am glad Papadopoulos ripped Bake (and maybe Goumas) at the end. He showed some much needed leadership in the dressing room, now he has to show some on the pitch. I think it's too early to fire the coach, but it is about time that management made a statement to get the blood flowing a bit (benching a big name player might not be a bad idea to make a point). Show some leadership and let everyone know that's not O.K. to be outplayed by Ionikos in our home turf. The team was caught sleeping and was knocked out. Now get up and start fighting :box: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 Also, talking, about Biscan, I realy dont understand what PAO suportrrs is expacting of that man? To be goalscorer? What I know Igor BIscan during five years playing in LIverpool in more than 100 games in Premiership and Europe scored not more than 3 or 4 goals! Since BIscan is defansive midlfielder who also can play as stoper but he isn't a playmaker! So let him to play his position or sell him out! As Conecisao! man it has nothing to do with goals. i dont expect anygoals from himhere are a few things I DO EXPECT from him and other players: -commitment -effort -strong defensive ability -not sloppy on the ball, bad touch - NOT THROWING AWAY STUPID PASSES ALL THE TIME- one half-decent pass wouldnt hurt!!! - Biscan is only good for headers.....the rest hes useless.....his stupid moments where his dumb move leads to the other team socingare reminding me of another loser from Hrvatska.....Maric Its nothing to with goals. Its about SKILL on the ball (which he may have, but NEVER SHOWS A HINT) Passing, movement on the pitch and EFFORT......biscan offers nothing.....wow he played for Liverpool-- WHO CARES. If it wasnt for his name/reputation he would be out of this team and never start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOLLYWOOD Posted August 28, 2006 Author Share Posted August 28, 2006 its funny because every year we have the same old crap, people saying the coach is s%$#!, the players r s%$#! so what happenes the next year?? we get rid of them and have new players and coaches however the problem is still there!! whats one common donominator in this picture that has been there always?? simple, its management!! they set the standards, culture, work ethic ect... i personaly dont think there is anything wrong with this team except Biscan, However if bakke turns out to b s%$#! then management must take the blame as they were the ones who hired him, if biscan is s%$#! then management must be held accountable for not researching there player b4 singing him.... the problem starts from the top and untill that is fixed we will see the same old story no matter what coach comes or what players come.. weather there Greek, Italian, Swedish or chinesse will always have these problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chameleon65 Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 UGH !!!!! <_< Hmm, my cousin just got back from greece and bought me a "green" jersey. Seems the trifilli is warping. Good or bad we should support the team but then again seeing what happened yesterday I'll wait awhille before I wear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 It is only the second game of the year with a new coach and new players.You guys got to relax and support your team otherwise we will have the same results like last year.I know it sounds crazy coming from me but Greek soccer needs more than one good team to keep improving and to have any hopes of challenging all the other powerhouses clubs.Barca needs Real,Milan needs Inter,Man utd needs Chelsea,Bayer needs Werder and Osfp need Pao.Only from hard competition in our league both of our clubs will improve and everyone else.You guys can not judge or shoot your team after only 2 games.ELEOS re p*****mou.Amartia pou to leo alla akoma kai tou theou tou pire 6 meres na ftiaksei to kosmo,ti perimenetai,thaumata amesos???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iliasdim Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 ^^^^^^^^^^^ In Oly vs Xanthi while the score was 0-1 there were some whistles (apodokimasies) from your fans to your players!!!While oly had played some great games during pre-season,they made some chances until eventually score and while you have 9 out of 10!!! So what do you expect from us my friend while the team is still lost in space?????As it is in the last....some years!!!!!! The truth is though,that you are right! It is still too early to judge and I still insist that the quality of players is much better than last year...This team will eventually do well and I hope they do it before it is too late! As almost everyone in here, my question is about Biscan, Vyntra and most of all Backe! As for Biscan, sad thing is there is no decent back-up for him. Tziolis reminds me of a "younger" Biscan with the way he plays, Leontiou is a bigger risk as he can't seem to defend(but he should always be in the 18ada cause he has the ability to win a game with his offensive skills,not like vs Ionikos). The "less worse" seems to be Andric not because he knows football but because he can score from 150m! Vyntra,,,nisafi pia! If you want to put Morris in the bench I prefer him as a DR! Nilson as a DR would not solve any problem as I think he is even worse than vyntra in this position! I blame Bakke for the players playing like they were asleep...unpassionate!No pressing, nothing! What kind of mentality is this? From a coach that said "there are no excuses for not being ready" and "we must win the championship" I expected a more passionate team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Vincent, in the foul, the Ionikos players performed the old trick of moving the ball one foot to the side in order to avoid the wall (one player kicked the ball softly to the side, another stepped on it to stop it, and then it was kicked). Once the ball is touched one player from the wall is supposed to run as close to the ball as possible to block the kick. This was Galinovic' fault since the shot was from really far away and was shot straight at him. The way I see it, that's the life of goalkeeper. Last week he saved some amazing shots, and this week he let the easiest one go past him. He did well last week, and he did badly this week... OK, I agree that the trick performed by Ionikos players was old but the key moment still was stupid jumping of PAO's No 14, since Ionikos player didn't move the ball to the side in order to avoid the wall but in the midle behind the wall! So Galinovic couldnt see the ball untill it passed the wall through the whole made by No 14, and than all was to late since goalkeeper alredy was out of balance! Regarding Biscan, PAO didn't lose the mach because Biscan played so badly but the real reason for deefeat was what PAO's attack couldn't score any goal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Regarding Biscan, PAO didn't lose the mach because Biscan played so badly but the real reason for deefeat was what PAO's attack couldn't score any goal! didnt lose the match because of Biscan directly (although some matches HAVE been)PAO didnt score because there was no play and support from the midfield......aka IGOR BISCAN he throws away passes, loses the ball, has no touch.....that makes a team perform WORSE.... igor biscan is a name...thats it. dont worry about ever seeing him in Croatia jersey again, i can promise you he wont make the team ever again....unless the coach is completly insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Regarding Biscan, PAO didn't lose the mach because Biscan played so badly but the real reason for deefeat was what PAO's attack couldn't score any goal!didnt lose the match because of Biscan directly (although some matches HAVE been)PAO didnt score because there was no play and support from the midfield......aka IGOR BISCAN he throws away passes, loses the ball, has no touch.....that makes a team perform WORSE.... igor biscan is a name...thats it. dont worry about ever seeing him in Croatia jersey again, i can promise you he wont make the team ever again....unless the coach is completly insane. A player, Biscan or anybody else, cant' be the bigest problem in a such club as Panathenaikos is! It can be only the bad coaches that don't know how to manage a team! And what can Biscan do in a team without discipline in defence and without any system in attack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 im sorry but you never watched him play here at PAO. The defense this year is much better than last amazingly enough, and Biscan has lost games single handedly for us in the past with his stupidities. What do you mean what can Biscan do with this team??? YOU MEAN WHAT CAN THIS TEAM DO WITH BISCAN!!!! Ok assuming tactics are bad- does this mean the player has a reason to make horrible passes have no touch on the ball be sluggish and careless on clearances??? NO. Tactics do NOT affect individual abilities on the pitch, neither does your POSISTION. If a player can do the fundamentals of a player like pass, head, not be SLOW, sloppy clearances and half decent vision it doesnt matter what position you play---your ABILITY Physically will be EXACTLY the same. how you move, time runs, distribution of abilities on the ball is what is affected by tactics. We have nothing against Biscan, except that hes absolutly HORRIBLE on the field for us and its EMBARASSING. Maybe the coach/system sucks.....so why arent the OTHER players that awful!??! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 im sorry but you never watched him play here at PAO. The defense this year is much better than last amazingly enough, and Biscan has lost games single handedly for us in the past with his stupidities. OK, I know Biscan already from Dinamo Zagreb and I also know what for he can be good and what for not. Biscan can be the best on the field but only if the whole team is playing well. But whwn team is playing badly whith a lot of mistakes, Biscan usualy don't know what to do... I think he has not enaugh psychicall stability to be a leader! But can you give sam samples for that what you writte here - that PAO has lost same single games becaus eof Biscan's stupidities? Wich games were in question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 But can you give sam samples for that what you writte here - that PAO has lost same single games becaus eof Biscan's stupidities? Wich games were in question? im referring to his game vs Olympiakos away where we lost 3-2....his awful header back to Galinovic made it 3-1 (then Kota-dinou scored from a 1/2 meter away) and Rivaldo's shot from outside the area was great, but Igor Biscan MOVED OUT OF THE WAY!?!?!? What professionaldefender moves out of the way for a Rivaldo shot that is very likely going to a GOAL!? Biscan, maybe was good back for Liverpool, Dinamo, but he BLOWS big time for Panathinaikos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 im referring to his game vs Olympiakos away where we lost 3-2.... his awful header back to Galinovic made it 3-1 (then Kota-dinou scored from a 1/2 meter away) and Rivaldo's shot from outside the area was great, but Igor Biscan MOVED OUT OF THE WAY!?!?!? What professionaldefender moves out of the way for a Rivaldo shot that is very likely going to a GOAL!? Biscan, maybe was good back for Liverpool, Dinamo, but he BLOWS big time for Panathinaikos. O come on! You can remember only this game against Olympiakos away? And you forget that after that match till the end of season Biscan played very well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOLLYWOOD Posted August 29, 2006 Author Share Posted August 29, 2006 To Vincent Read the quote from Drakos again: Ok assuming tactics are bad- does this mean the player has a reason to make horrible passes have no touch on the ball be sluggish and careless on clearances??? NO. Tactics do NOT affect individual abilities on the pitch, neither does your POSISTION. If a player can do the fundamentals of a player like pass, head, not be SLOW, sloppy clearances and half decent vision it doesnt matter what position you play---your ABILITY Physically will be EXACTLY the same. how you move, time runs, distribution of abilities on the ball is what is affected by tactics. We have nothing against Biscan, except that hes absolutly HORRIBLE on the field for us and its EMBARASSING. Maybe the coach/system sucks.....so why arent the OTHER players that awful!??! That explains it perfectly why Biscan has been a big let down.. I agree with Drakos (thats rare) here, because i for one had big expectations when he came.. i knew how good he was at liverpool and i thought he would do wonders at Pao espeically given the time he will get on the field however his been the second biggest flop after flavio! Everyone here gave Biscan a chance in the first season espically given the fact that he was used a a DC (not his natural position) and not a DMC.. However when he finnaly switched to his good position DMC, at best he was average... That Blows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 im referring to his game vs Olympiakos away where we lost 3-2.... his awful header back to Galinovic made it 3-1 (then Kota-dinou scored from a 1/2 meter away) and Rivaldo's shot from outside the area was great, but Igor Biscan MOVED OUT OF THE WAY!?!?!? What professionaldefender moves out of the way for a Rivaldo shot that is very likely going to a GOAL!? Biscan, maybe was good back for Liverpool, Dinamo, but he BLOWS big time for Panathinaikos. O come on! You can remember only this game against Olympiakos away? And you forget that after that match till the end of season Biscan played very well! if you move out of the way of an outside shot (as a CENTERBACK no less) in a HUGE game against our hated rivals.....Biscan BLEW THAT GAME. There are other games too where hes been laughable. Biscan is overpaid, overated and no better than most players at all. We dont enjoy seeing lousy performances from players, and ones who dont put effort. That is what Biscan has done at this club. I dont know why you cant accept it----its pretty obvious hes not good enough to stay. Get over it. Why the hell is Biscan playing when Andric is proven better everytime he comes on the field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Drakos is correct! Biscan has been worse especially considering the expectations (money, "experience" etc)... I'd say many of our younger (academy) players (Greek too) would be more passionate and would have contributed more for lot les $$$$. As for blowing big games.... Do you realize that if you lose the 2 games against your main challenger it's worth 12 points?!!!! Like Drakos says, we don't enjoy crappy performances and players who don't give 100%... it's that simple! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athens4 Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 O Bakke nuxta tha fugei :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 im referring to his game vs Olympiakos away where we lost 3-2.... his awful header back to Galinovic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 oh sure!!! :LOL: Im sorry man.. But Get lost....Enough of this crap already. You havent seen PAO play one game with Biscan and your making judgements on him. And your making stupid excuses (that make no sense) So the reason why Biscan is slow, cant pass, has no first touch and makes stupid mistakes is becuase the team around him is awful...Yeah please well really beleive that. Good players IMPROVE their team around them. Thats what a good player is. Biscan is noticably performing worse than the others....Conceicao as well. Exapmle: Bovio can pass, dribble, mark, and run 3x better than shitty Biscan...If the team is so weak, why can another player in the same position accomplish to be so much better? Answer: Hes BETTER than Biscan. We dont like Biscan because of his godawful performances. And yes, he plays godawful. Id much rather take Skopelitis of Aigaleo. oh and Im sure Im just from Switzerland---- A)what would that have to do with anything? B ) Im NOT Swiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choc13 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 pou ton vrikane afto to karagiozi ,,,,,,ti kapnizi afto to ma;laka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GS1905 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Last year, after Biscan signed for PAO, I thought it would be one of the greatest signings for the club in recent times.. and when he underperformed for the first few months, I told most PAO fans that he will adapt to the club in time.. But it's been 1,5 years and he's always going from bad to worse!! even Flavio --who I shouted here that was a crap signing as he had a chump-off year at Galatasaray before joining-- would have improved!! :LOL: :LOL: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar7 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 he's had some moments... but for the amount of $$$ invested, we havent seen the results.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 B ) Im NOT Swiss. OK, but are you sure you Greek? I am asking only... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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