Australia - Greece

[DUDE]

SO when a Greek in Greeks makes the claim that Greeks from the e3oteriko are living in the past with their views, then the correct response would be that the people in Greece are living behind an insular curtain and are basically ignorant (I believe the word in Greek is anoiti).

Bravo megale, great post

[Tsalgik]

Well I want to discredit the statement that some have made and that I have heard before, the one about that Greeks of the diaspora are more nationalistic or hold on to hatreds for Turks more than Greeks in Greece.

Adelfe Akriti,

Opoios eipe tetoio pragma kanei megalo lathos.Sto sholeio i istoria mas einai mia terastia propaganda kata ton tourkon.Episis ta perissotera atoma pou xero misoun tous tourkous horis na xeroun to giati.(vgazo apo exo ta 400 hronia).Otan omos feugoun metanastes sti Germania allazoun gnomi.

A! i lexi ignorant simainei adais.To dehomai oti oi Ellines stin Ellada einai adais alla se kanmia periptosi anoitoi

[REDmagic]

Boys...It's going to be a tense match...not just a friendly. Australia will go all out for a win to gain confidence into the WC to say "we beat the euro champions" Also Gus and Otto will have their own little battle going on. Most importantly new players coming into the NT now so im sure current and older palyers are feeling the pressure of being benched or out.  :(

They have estimated 65,000 fans will be the aussies...the are not just Anglo's but Cros, Skops, Turks and other losers that want to see us go down.... anyone wants to go the the MCG with their Aussie jersey and hold the Greek flag can sit in the "gay section"  :o

The Hellas boys in section M1 to M7 will show how its done."Trelokomio sytle"  :gr:

I can't wait for the game :o

I will be sitting in the "HELLAS" trelokomeio section M4....

At the 2000 Olympics I was there to see Pyros Dimas and Kahi Kahasvili win gold and that was big BUT this game will be bigger :1eye:

[Tsalgik]

Re as tous afisoune na mpoune.Na doun kai aytoi to Eurw.Na doun kai tis times oi alloi eyropaioi kai na gyrisoun xana gia tourismo se mas.Giati logo tou asthenous nomismatos mas efagan persi kamposous touristes.Akou ekei tourismo stin tourkia.

[Athens4]

TOURKIA GAMISOY,

EDW EINAI ELLAS,

EMEIS THA SAS GAMAME,

KAI ESU THA PROSKINAS!

:gr:

[turkcell]

You my friend have to learn that there are Turkish-Greeks in Greece and Greek-Turks in Turkey..... I know guys like you cant understand this but it is reality....

I wrote this cause you wrote something about Saloniki....

If you believe in a blood theory than you havent learned the lesson that the whole world has learned.... if oyu believe that ,,greek blood'' is more valuable than ,,other'' blood in the world you are really a old fashioned little boy ..... maybe youre eduaction is not high enough to understand that we live in wolrd that belongs all people who share the same values...

Did you see me write that Greek blood is more valuable than anyone else's???

...This is also the idea of the European Union which Greece is a part of... Greece is European cuase its shares the values of Europe and not cause it people has ,,greek blood''......

I hope god will give you a little bit illumination.....PEACE.#

The European Union is an illusion. It is merely a business venture. Britain doesn't share the same values as Greece, France doesn't share the same values as Poland, etc. If the European Union was based on shared values a country like Turkey, who illegally occupies half an EU country, continually flies war planes over Greek airspace (another EU nation), has an appalling human rights record, persecutes Kurds and religious minorities, harbours a terrorist in Kemal Akin who is wanted by Interpole, refuses to acknowledge the Armenian genocide and has attempted to introduce new Islamic laws such as making adultery a capital punishment, would be sanctioned let alone considered for entry!

To suggest that the EU is a philosophically-based institution where shared values count is ridiculous. The only reason Turkey is getting a look in is to continue the advancement of control in the pursuit of world domination! The only true unification people have is among their own people, and even that appears to be crumbling in Greece.

As fo my education, and illumination, don't patronise me, I'll quote from Philosophers that you don't even know exist because when we were enlightened you were swinging from trees.

you can be sure that turkish people was never on the trees....

I respect your negative opinion about the EU but you talk about Kurds and so and as a wise thinkin man you should be very carefully what you say about the Kurdish Issue.

Turkey lost in the last 15 years 40.000 citizen cause of Kurdish Terrorism. It is a right of every country to fight terrorism.

As for Cyprus :_ You have to learn to that they are TWO people who have a right to live in a own Republic! Like in Israel the Arabs should have a own State also the Turkish Cypriots should have a own state.

I hate to talk about politics but I just tried to explain you the OTHER SIDE!!!!

THERE IS ALWAYS A OTHER SIDE !!! PLEASE LEARN THIS FIRST BEFORE YOU COME TO A PREJUDICE

[DUDE]

I respect your negative opinion about the EU but you talk about Kurds and so and as a wise thinkin man  you should be very carefully what you say about the Kurdish Issue.

Turkey lost in the last 15 years 40.000 citizen cause of Kurdish Terrorism. It is a right of every country to fight terrorism.

And how many Kurds have been lost??? The Kurds are not terrorists they are freedom fighters. You have stolen their land and commited genocide against them. To this day their human rights are non-existent. You honestly make me sick with your claims that they are terrorists. You deny your atrocities against them the way you deny the Armenian genocide. (Are you going to say that didn't happen either)??? You disgust me. What has Turkey ever contributed to humanity except for death, pain and destruction? And I am not merely speaking as a Greek but as a human. The whole world hates you! Greeks, Armenians, Kurds, Russians, Serbs, etc. You have persecuted them all. Even Syria (a fellow Muslim country) doesn't like you, not to mention the average citizens of EU countries. Where ever you go the crime rate and drug abuse increases, I wonder why that is??? You are the scum of the earth, I commend the Kurds for their courage.

As for Cyprus :_ You have to learn to that they are TWO people who have a right to live in a own Republic! Like in Israel the Arabs should have a own State also the Turkish Cypriots should have a own state.

Does the Asian community in Britain have a right to create their own state in the UK? Do the Algerians have a right to create a break away state in France? Please don't talk s%$#!.

[TheCity1924]

I've been reading these posts and would like to add a few thoughts.

First, i don't think that being Greek-American or a Greek-German is a paradox. Being Greek or something else does not have to do with the place your were born or where your parents left. My father was born in Constantinoupoli, and he was discriminated against until he left when he was 28. He doesn't feel at all turkish, not because his greatgrandparents were from Greece and that being another else would be a paradox, but because he never took anything from Turkey. He was told to speak Turkish, he was beat up on the streets, his family lived in fear and those that still live there live in the same way.

If you ask my father, he is proud to be Greek and proud to be American. Both of those countries have given him different but equally important values and advantages. Being Greek he feels the pride of its history, its culture, its language, and its ideals. And living in American for almost 30 years he has been given many things other countries couldn't give him. Its funny that during the Euro he cried everytime the national anthem played, everytime greece scored a goal and everytime he chanted the great songs that the fans sang to cheer on their team. He told me that it was the first time in his life that he was free to be proud to be Greek. That he could walk the streets with his flag and yell at the top of his voice and feel as if he was truely Greek.

America gave him the freedom to feel this way. Being a Greek-American or any other hyphenated Greek is not a paradox. Actually it is keeping with the Greek tradition of being open to different cultures, of adapting to different societys. We were the worlds trading post. You cannot honestly say that other countries ideas and influences did not seep into Greece through the Mediterranean.

As for the the other Greek issues, Cyprus, Macedonia, i would like to say that we shouldn't forget history and what has happened. But if you get caught up in the past you forget to look forward into the future. The rest of the world is progressing and its seems as if Greece is stuck in 1st gear. Greece is content on focusing on issues that won't help it progress. Instead of spending billions of dollars in a defense budget that is usless they should spend money to help create industry and jobs for the younger generations.

Also i would like to say that maybe the BBC is racist but we give others an excuse to criticize us and judge us. The Olympics were months away and we were working like true Greeks, scrambling at the last minute to finish a job that could have been done 6 months earlier. But like Greeks we finished and thats the important thing. My point is that if we want to change other peoples perseption of Greece we have to take some action to change it for them.

[DUDE]

He doesn't feel at all turkish, not because his greatgrandparents were from Greece and that being another else would be a paradox, but because he never took anything from Turkey. 

I'd like to begin by commending your father on his courage, his story is very touching. However, to suggest that he doesn't feel Turkish because they didn't give him anything is perplexing! So lets say that he opened a successful business in Turkey and became rich, hence, Turkey provided him with the opportunity for wealth. Would he consider himself Turkish then???

Both of those countries have given him different but equally important values and advantages.  Being Greek he feels the pride of its history, its culture, its language, and its ideals.  And living in American for almost 30 years he has been given many things other countries couldn't give him.

Again you are speaking as if any country that gives you something, in this case freedom of speech, should be loved by you. America is a Liberal Democracy (like EU nations). The Liberal Democratic ideals are based on the philosophy of John Locke, and things like freedom of expression and freedom from perscution are known as 'natural rights'. America didn't give your father these rights, they are his but the Turks took them away.

Its funny that during the Euro he cried everytime the national anthem played, everytime greece scored a goal and everytime he chanted the great songs that the fans sang to cheer on their team.  He told me that it was the first time in his life that he was free to be proud to be Greek.

This is so touching file. But he could have done this in India, England, France, or Japan. Doesn't mean that those countries are a part of him too.

Being a Greek-American or any other hyphenated Greek is not a paradox.  Actually it is keeping with the Greek tradition of being open to different cultures, of adapting to different societys.  We were the worlds trading post.  You cannot honestly say that other countries ideas and influences did not seep into Greece through the Mediterranean. 

Yes Greece had other influences and they respected other cultures and races, but they never pledged allegiance with any other race. They'd never say I'm a Greek-Persian for example.

As for the the other Greek issues, Cyprus, Macedonia, i would like to say that we shouldn't forget history and what has happened.  But if you get caught up in the past you forget to look forward into the future.

The past shapes the future and politics is no exception. Cyprus was illegaly invaded, thus any future peace plan must take this into account! Turkey has no right in Cyprus, by granting them permanent stay then it makes invasion good business doesn't it? For example, if France invaded Britain and took 38% of their country, course they'll say 'forget the past' because they'll get to keep what they came for! History and politics is synonamous.

The rest of the world is progressing and its seems as if Greece is stuck in 1st gear.

The many progressions aren't actually progressions, they stunt humanity. Take the biometrics on ID Cards and Passports as an example. Books like 1984 and films like Equilibrium and Minority Report warn people of dangers of adopting fascist schemes like this, yet ignorant citizens want this 'development'. Some developments are not advancements file. Values, respect, patriotism have gone out the window with all these recent 'developments'. And I'm 22 years old, I'm not some 65 year old reminiscing about how life used to be. Some times its good to hold on to your values at the expense of the world. To use the old adage, it is possible to be the only sane person in the world.

Greece is content on focusing on issues that won't help it progress.  Instead of spending billions of dollars in a defense budget that is usless they should spend money to help create industry and jobs for the younger generations.

In an ideal world this would be great, but there are priorities. Only 2 weeks ago the Turks threatened war against Greece again remember?

As for it not being a paradox to be a Greek-American, I'll pose the question I posed to another poster, what happens when the U.S. (and this has been happening for years) politically persecutes Greece and Cyprus? The U.S. (Henry Kissinger) manipulated the Turkish invasion (this is a fact) for their interests, since then they have attacked Cyprus and to an extent Greece in every possible political approach. From the Annan Plan to the free market, etc. When there are two colliding forces it is impossible to support both, that is a paradox file mou.

[TheCity1924]

File, I can't in good conscience declare that I am only Greek when I was born and raised in America. This is true for other Greeks around the world. To assimilate into the culture of the country you are living in is not a paradox to your feeling Greek. I shop at Greek stores, eat Greek food, listen to Greek music, I went to Greek school and continue to live a Greek centered life. But I can't say that I have no allegence to America, it just isn't so. I live here, study here, work here and will probably die here. Living in a country where you are free to live your life and not accepting that you have become part of the society is living a lie.

As for my father not taking anything from Turkey, I did not imply economic success. That success can come anywhere. What I meant was freedom, culture, life. The Greeks that left constantinoupoli after '55 didn't leave because they didn't have money. The left because of their persecutions. My family were extremely wealthy in Turkey, but they were forced to leave because of who they were. They don't feel the least bit turkish. If my father was living in another country which allowed him to exercise his freedoms and live life how he wanted it would be difficult to say that he isn't a part of that country. But being a part of another country doesn't diminish who you are and where you came from. In reality it makes you work harder to hold onto your origins. It would have been easy for my parents to not send me to greek school and let me forget where i came from.

The Cyprus issue is not something we should forget, but something that Greece has to get resolved at least on its end. Yes there was betrayal, but it happens in all the corners of the world. But the Cyprus problem has become a thorn which Greece cannot remove. It is time to involve other powers to solve this issue. And i agree with you that with progress we being to lose some of our fundamental rights and values. But when the rest of the world is moving forward you inevitably end up behind. Greece is considered a second class country not because the rest of the world hates us but because we have left ourselves behind.

[Apollo]

I've been reading these posts and would like to add a few thoughts.

First, i don't think that being Greek-American or a Greek-German is a paradox. Being Greek or something else does not have to do with the place your were born or where your parents left. My father was born in Constantinoupoli, and he was discriminated against until he left when he was 28. He doesn't feel at all turkish, not because his greatgrandparents were from Greece and that being another else would be a paradox, but because he never took anything from Turkey. He was told to speak Turkish, he was beat up on the streets, his family lived in fear and those that still live there live in the same way.

If you ask my father, he is proud to be Greek and proud to be American. Both of those countries have given him different but equally important values and advantages. Being Greek he feels the pride of its history, its culture, its language, and its ideals. And living in American for almost 30 years he has been given many things other countries couldn't give him. Its funny that during the Euro he cried everytime the national anthem played, everytime greece scored a goal and everytime he chanted the great songs that the fans sang to cheer on their team. He told me that it was the first time in his life that he was free to be proud to be Greek. That he could walk the streets with his flag and yell at the top of his voice and feel as if he was truely Greek.

America gave him the freedom to feel this way. Being a Greek-American or any other hyphenated Greek is not a paradox. Actually it is keeping with the Greek tradition of being open to different cultures, of adapting to different societys. We were the worlds trading post. You cannot honestly say that other countries ideas and influences did not seep into Greece through the Mediterranean.

As for the the other Greek issues, Cyprus, Macedonia, i would like to say that we shouldn't forget history and what has happened. But if you get caught up in the past you forget to look forward into the future. The rest of the world is progressing and its seems as if Greece is stuck in 1st gear. Greece is content on focusing on issues that won't help it progress. Instead of spending billions of dollars in a defense budget that is usless they should spend money to help create industry and jobs for the younger generations.

Also i would like to say that maybe the BBC is racist but we give others an excuse to criticize us and judge us. The Olympics were months away and we were working like true Greeks, scrambling at the last minute to finish a job that could have been done 6 months earlier. But like Greeks we finished and thats the important thing. My point is that if we want to change other peoples perseption of Greece we have to take some action to change it for them.

I would like to comment you guys, on the last few posts.Greek- American, Russian-Greek,British-Greek. What does it matter, Greeks are Greeks, no mater where they live. They always contrubited positevely to local economy and culture. And not knowing the past will most likely bring uncertain future. Yes guys, most of the older generation cried with happy tears in the lucky year of 2004 for Greeks! Greeks contrubited way too much to the world than anybody. We can`t forget that.Greece is not left behind as some of you say, when did you last visit Greece?I was there in 2004 and was suprised to see all the changes that are taking place,it is breathtaking no less! Yes Greece spends more per-capita than any NATO country. We can`t depend on our so called friends,again remember the past,and not so long past.Why the ocupying turkish army is still on Cyprus? One must ask does it serve the American intrests? Remember Irag, America did not think twice to remove Sadam, but Tuks no, why, what a double standard! By the way Kurds were there, long before Tuks showed up,and they have the very right , have their own state.Greece is the beacon of the Balkans, all our neigbours know that in

cluding the Turks, so lets put that to rest!

Regards,

Apollo

[turkcell]

I respect your negative opinion about the EU but you talk about Kurds and so and as a wise thinkin man  you should be very carefully what you say about the Kurdish Issue.

Turkey lost in the last 15 years 40.000 citizen cause of Kurdish Terrorism. It is a right of every country to fight terrorism.

And how many Kurds have been lost??? The Kurds are not terrorists they are freedom fighters. You have stolen their land and commited genocide against them. To this day their human rights are non-existent. You honestly make me sick with your claims that they are terrorists. You deny your atrocities against them the way you deny the Armenian genocide. (Are you going to say that didn't happen either)??? You disgust me. What has Turkey ever contributed to humanity except for death, pain and destruction? And I am not merely speaking as a Greek but as a human. The whole world hates you! Greeks, Armenians, Kurds, Russians, Serbs, etc. You have persecuted them all. Even Syria (a fellow Muslim country) doesn't like you, not to mention the average citizens of EU countries. Where ever you go the crime rate and drug abuse increases, I wonder why that is??? You are the scum of the earth, I commend the Kurds for their courage.

Does the Asian community in Britain have a right to create their own state in the UK? Do the Algerians have a right to create a break away state in France? Please don't talk s%$#!.

Yes and Taliban are also Freedom Fighters....??

And I want to remember you : The Kurds want not a own country they have almost a own region in Turkey! Diyarbakir is also called as the kurdish capitol in Turkey. And the people are NOT in war with the turkish people. ALso Kurds suffer from bombs in buses and terrorism . They want more rights like having a parlament like scotland has in the UK. Do you live in Turkey ?? NO ..so where have you got your information ?? Sure teh Armenians hate us OK but what shall I do know ?? Have 75 million Turks now say sorry... :D

To the fact : terrorism is clearly declared...you cant also say that ETA in Spain is a freedom fighters club...ok?

Are the attacks of 9/11 organized by freedom fighters??? :nono:

Hej I respect your opinion and now respect me please.

You have really no idea what happens in Turkey (especially of the Kurdish Issue). Please dont talk s%$#! about my home country ;)

You also say that turkish people are ,,scum'' ....you think you are eduacted...:rolleyes: But you talk like a redneck or very primative man if you have a reason to say bad things.... If you have not better arguments than you shouldnt talk about politics with people from countires who come from countries you didnt mention in your last post...

I will not talk with you further in the whole forum. You can say what ever you want now I believe that many Greeks also agree with me.You are a shame for many Greeks here believe me.

The whole world is Serbia and Russia.???.. :LOL: :LOL:

OK lets talk about SOCCER !!!

[aekrossoponti]

Yes and Taliban are also Freedom Fighters....??

They want more rights like having a parlament like scotland has in the UK. Do you live in Turkey ?? NO ..so where have you got your information ?? Sure teh Armenians hate us OK but what shall I do know ?? Have 75 million Turks now say sorry... :D

To the fact : terrorism is clearly declared...you cant also say that ETA in Spain is a freedom fighters club...ok?

Are the attacks of 9/11 organized by freedom fighters??? :nono:

Hej I respect your opinion and now respect me please.

The whole world is Serbia and Russia.???.. :LOL: :LOL:

baksana turkcell,

well up until some while ago the taliban actually were considered freedom fighters. at least from the major western powers...

i don t care about the kurdish issue. the kurds in the ottoman empire commited many atrocities against the greek populations.

i don t live in turkey, i dont have the whole picture. but efendim turcell you know that the turkish military has had a great interest inthe kurdish conflict as also in conflicts with greece, cyprus etc. you may know that turkey is one of the biggest military forces in the world (!) and spending on defense are immense. the military needs reason to justify these spendings. some weeks ago, turkish secret service/military intelligence "staged" bombings in the "kurdish" areas, to put the blame on the pkk. this was uncovered by the wild mob in the streets who found military id on the bombers. i am not saying that the kurds are lambs. the pkk is for its main part a terroristic organisation funded by drug and prostitution money. but turkey not only denies kurds their own state but also their own language, they don t have an own party, have real say in turkish politics, etc. but you speak that we have to acknowledge there are two people living in cyprus, which i do. but until some years ago, before the pkk, in turkey officially there were no kurds.

are you telling me the mighty turkish military couldn t stop the pkk in no time,? if not why not?? maybe because the kurds do have real issues that keep them going, because they suffer or do they want to cause trouble for no reason?

i think we dont know enough to speak about the eta. but the klo in kosova that was very similar in finance to the pkk was officially reckognized as a partner for the western forces. the serbes see klo as terrorists, as the turks see the pkk.

as for ethnikistis going overboard a couple times..yes, a bit...but if he states that turkey has few friends in the world he is not wrong. this is one reason for the immense military spending, an the massive military apparatus turkey has established. dont tell me you need all the military because fear the aggressive greek state with its ten million citizens? your allies are usa, israel (no one needs more that these two), as of late uk and all the turkstates surrounding you. the arabs don tlike turks due to the history, the whole balkans historically dislikes turks, the russians...its not nothing. if there would be a referendum in every eu state, abot turkey entering the eu. it would be a landslide against it.

to be honest, it wouldn t be different with greece.we are not much more popular. we don t have any allies, but we dont have as many declared enemies as have the turks.

[Irlandos]

Folks! Just a very brief reminder that this thread concerns Australia v. Greece...

Btw, where are you all when we try to discuss political matters in the political forums? :huh:

[DUDE]

And I want to remember you : The Kurds want not a own country they have almost a own region in Turkey! Diyarbakir is also called as the kurdish capitol in Turkey. And the people are NOT in war with the turkish people. ALso Kurds suffer from bombs in buses and terrorism . They want more rights like having a parlament like scotland has in the UK.

Do you blame them? They want safeguards against barbarians that have sytamatically persecuted them! They are a group of people who, historically, had a region which was their land, that has now been taken away from them, The Atlantic Charter (1941) and the Human Rights Convention states that all people have the right to self-government, a right which you have taken away!

Sure teh Armenians hate us OK but what shall I do know ?? Have 75 million  Turks now say sorry...  :D

Yes! Come to terms with your hideous past and pay compensation. Provide ethnic and religious minorities within your country with safeguards.

To the fact : terrorism is clearly declared...you cant also say that ETA in Spain is a freedom fighters club...ok?

Are the attacks of 9/11 organized by freedom fighters???  :nono:

I know that any concepts which require some thought are difficult for you to fathom but please try. The stigma 'terrorist' is always applied by the ruling elite. For Spain ETA are terrorists, for you Kurds are, for the U.S. Al Qaeda are, for Britain EOKA were, Russia says Chechens are, etc. The way a neutral can determine whether a group should be categorised as 'terrorists' or 'freedom fighters' is by weighing up the moral argument of the ruling elite and the fighting group.

Firstly the ARGUMENT of the fighting group is using should be considered. Do they have a moral victory in their argument? For example, is land theirs historically, have they been persecuted, etc.

Secondly consider the APPROACH being taken, to do this you have to understand the arguments of Gandi and Fannon. Gandi argued that the overthrow of an oppressive elite can only be acheived through peace and passivity, Fannon argues the opposite, that only through armed revolt can a people overthrow an oppressive force. In practical terms I'd say that Fannon is right but morally Gandi is. Therefore, first passivity should be tried, if that doesn't work then armed revolt.

So, when looking at the Kurdish example, one can understand the argument. Also, when considering that they have been ethnically cleansed and the international community has been deaf to their pain so Fannon's approach is their only choice. The opposite example could be the Russian, historically Chechnya is Russian land so the Chechens don't win the moral argument, also, their actions (such as taking a school hostage) do not win the approach argument either. Hence, Kurds are freedom fighters, Chechens are terrorists. Now I know your Turkish brain has a limited capacity but please try to understand the post.

You also say that turkish people are ,,scum'' ....you think you are eduacted...:rolleyes:  But you talk like a redneck or very primative man if you have a reason to say bad things

Why because I speak the truth???? I asked you to tell me what Turkey has contributed to humanity. If the answer is pain, death and destruction it makes me a redneck to point that out???

The whole world is Serbia and Russia.???.. :LOL:  :LOL:

Serbia, Russia, Bulgaria, Greece, Cyprus, Kurds, Syria, and Lebanon is everone around you. PLUS all the indigenous people from EU countries that that you taint with your presence. Yes the whole world!

OK lets talk about  SOCCER !!!

Ok, great result against Azerbaijan, congrats!

[DUDE]

i think we dont know enough to speak about the eta. but the klo in kosova that was very similar in finance to the pkk was officially reckognized as a partner for the western forces. the serbes see klo as terrorists, as the turks see the pkk.

The diff is that ALL Yugoslav territory is Serbian, the rest are there from the days of the Ottoman empire, just like the Cyprus situation! The KLO cannot be compared to PKK, the KLO are genuine terrorists who began the problems.

to be honest, it wouldn t be different with greece.we are not much more popular. we don t have any allies, but we dont have as many declared enemies as have the turks.

Greece has a number of Allies: Russia, China, obviously Cyprus, Palestine, Argentina, Lebanon, etc. The only allies Turkey has is Israel, U.S.A, Britain (who, for the record, have been allies with Turkey since the Crimean War), and Albania and Azerbaijan (who are Turks anyway!). The point is Greece's allies are for genuine business and moral reasons, Turkey gets used, she is merely the Wests whore!

[DUDE]

Folks! Just a very brief reminder that this thread concerns Australia v. Greece...

Btw, where are you all when we try to discuss political matters in the political forums? :huh:

Sorry dude. I'll stop now.

[Irlandos]

Everyone stops now as I am closing this thread.

Everything from Kurdistan to the Chechens have been discussed here except Greece v. Australia which was the original topic.