WCq: Turkey - GREECE

[Akritis_1944]

I'll stay away from the political and race issues and give my opinion on the football.

Some have criticised the Turks for being an overrated side. I agree, but some of the same people have also mentioned how great Switzerland are.

I have to disagree with anyone who rates the Swiss side. They went through on away goals after leading 2 - 0 and even scoring another in Turkey. This was 3 nil on aggregate and yet they snuck through 4-4 on away goals!

If Greece was 3 nil up against anyone with 70 minutes to go I am sure they wouldn't capitulate like Switzerland did.

Switzerland will struggle in next years WC finals. They are not better than Denmark. Not even close.

Let's look at the facts:

Group 4

Teams Pld W D L GF GA Pts

France 10 5 5 0 14 2 20

Switzerland 10 4 6 0 18 7 18

Israel 10 4 6 0 15 10 18

Republic of Ireland 10 4 5 1 12 5 17

Cyprus 10 1 1 8 8 20 4

Faroe Islands 10 0 1 9 4 27 1

They had a comparatively weak group compared to Group 2 (Greece/Tur/Den/Ukr).

They finished on the same points as Israel and 1 ahead of Ireland. They also were lucky to have an out of sorts and inconsistent France who never fired.

They had 6 draws in such a weak group! They could only beat Cyprus 1 nil at home.

The Swiss will finish last in their group in Germany. I hope that we get them for Euro 08 qualifying. We need some weaker teams to build our confidence against.

[plato-ny]

Its not the first time that Turks have misbehaved and it has to stop...

Exhibit A: Turkey-FYR Macedonia

UEFA to probe crowd trouble in Turkey

Posted: Thursday June 12, 2003 3:31 PM

NYON, Switzerland (AP) -- Turkey could be fined or ordered to play its next game in an empty stadium after fans threw objects onto the field during the Euro 2004 qualifier against FYR Macedonia in Istanbul, UEFA said Thursday.

FYR Macedonia midfielder Sasko Lazarevski was struck on the head by an object after teammates unfurled an FYR Macedonia flag following a goal by Artim Sakiri which put the visitors ahead 2-1.

Turkey won Wednesday night's game 3-2.

Turkish riot police held up shields to protect FYR Macedonia players taking corner kicks.

UEFA spokesman Mike Lee said the European governing body had opened an investigation into the crowd trouble.

"From what we've seen so far we think there's a basis for disciplinary proceedings," he said. "There were missiles thrown. That is absolutely a breach of regulations."

Lee said UEFA's disciplinary body would consider any sanctions at a meeting next month. He said Turkey could face sanctions ranging from a fine to playing a game without fans allowed to attend.

UEFA's main concern is the Euro 2004 qualifier against England on Oct. 11 in Turkey. The match is likely to decide the winner of the qualifying group. Turkey leads by one point, but England has played one fewer game.

Fearing trouble, English soccer officials have already decided not to take their ticket allocation for the game.

"That is a very important game," Lee said. "Everyone is working extra hard -- from the English FA to the Turkish FA -- to make sure that game takes place in a safe and secure environment."

Meanwhile a Turkish team official condemned the English media for exaggerating the incident and he called on the English FA to send its fans to the game in Istanbul.

"I don't know why the English are making such a big deal of this," said team administrator Can Cobanoglu.

"They're exaggerating. Only four bottles of water were thrown onto the field," he said adding that Turkish fans had been "provoked" by FYR Macedonian players.

"I went and saw [Lazarevski]. Nothing happened to him.

"The English should come here. They should play soccer on the field and stop playing politics," Cobanoglu said.

"If Turkey ends up gets punished for this, England should be thrown out of the entire tournament."

Result: A slap on the wrist

Exhibit B: Turkey vs. England tunnel brawl October 30, 2003.

Uefa fines FA over bust-up

The Football Association has been fined

[turkcell]

Listen my greek friends

What happened in Istanbul would happen everyhwehre in Europe....

it was a game for the WC 2006 !!!!

Yes it is true turkish football federation made mistakes and I hope they will learn from this....

I am wondering why everybody is making the turks so down while anywhere else in Europe happens the same s%$#!....

...sometimes it is political motivated from people who dont want to see turkiye in europe or in success.... BUT Turkiye is in Europe and it is a EUROPEAN COUNTRY --THIS IS REALITY... so much for that.

NEXT POINT : AS GREECE BECAME EURO CHAMPION ALL TURKS I KNOW supported the greek team !! In EC 2004 me and my turkish friends watched all games where greek national team played ......

:gr:

[SoussouGreek]

Turkey should be BANNED from WC 2010. Did you see what the Turkish fans did to the Swiss as they were exiting the stadium.. PATHETIC.

[Olympiakara10]

"HELLAS + TURKIYE = FRIENDS FOREVER"

Never.

[loup]

I don't think what happened was at all normal

The Turks - or whoever pulls this sort of stuff - should first start off by taking things seriously and admit acting like they did was completely wrong

I would love to see FIFA start laying the hammer on countries and the national leagues also

[plato-ny]

Listen my greek friends

What happened in Istanbul would happen everyhwehre in Europe....

it was a game for the WC 2006 !!!!

Yes it is true turkish football federation made mistakes and I hope they will learn from this....

I am wondering why everybody is making the turks so down while anywhere else in Europe happens the same s%$#!....

...sometimes it is political motivated from people who dont want to see turkiye in europe or in success.... BUT Turkiye is in Europe and it is a EUROPEAN COUNTRY --THIS IS REALITY... so much for that.

NEXT POINT : AS GREECE BECAME EURO CHAMPION ALL TURKS I KNOW supported the greek team !! In EC 2004 me and my turkish friends watched all games where greek national team played ......

:gr:

What happens with fans is normal in Europe. True.

BUT, with trainers and players starting fights. Different story...

[Clover22]

turksmell you've been breathing in too much gasoline and it's affecting you're brain (which is already small). It is not the same thing in other civilized countries; there always seems to be some problematic incident in Turkey and they absolutely DO NOT deserve to play in 2010 or 2012. Also do you know where you are? Its called ASIA.

[HOLLYWOOD]

This game finish ages ago....

Close the thread mouse plz...

[Korisos]

i don't see why.

another wise man will just open another thread and continue the argument and besides the thread went off topic a very long time ago

and now as we all wait fifa's ruling, turkey being banned from 2010 i don't think is absolutely certain but i think there exists a very strong chance since they have a previous history. actually my turkish friend was very upset at that possibility but unless they admit they are doing something wrong instead of always arguing that "the other guys started it" then nothing will get done to begin with.

[turkcell]

i don't see why.

another wise man will just open another thread and continue the argument and besides the thread went off topic a very long time ago

and now as we all wait fifa's ruling, turkey being banned from 2010 i don't think is absolutely certain but i think there exists a very strong chance since they have a previous history. actually my turkish friend was very upset at that possibility but unless they admit they are doing something wrong instead of always arguing that "the other guys started it" then nothing will get done to begin with.

...I watched the replay of the end of the match Turkey-Switzerland

and it was a shame for my country...

...our (turkish ) side has 100 % made mistake....

....ok --but whats now?? I think turkish FA can learn from this and has the power and the right organisation to make it better in future...

...But I just want to say : FIFA President is from switzerland...this makes this case much more interesting for the FIFA...

if Turkey had play against any other nation ....this all wouldnt be talked now by the FIFA i believe .....and hope fo better times.

I believe Turkey will play in Euro 2008 in Switzerland and will get the cup.

I can say this cause I know the strength of young turkish football players...

how I said : nobody can stop the Turks......just remeber Turkey is European Champion with the U-17 2005 !! And played semi fianls in WC 2005 Peru of U-17!

Also there are many young turkish players who will play until now....in the A-team.

Turkey has much more future and talented players than Greece...believe me... I just TALK ABOUT facts ...I dont want to call names now ..the list is too long.

NOW that we dont go to Germany is the beginning of a new age for our national team....now young players will play without having pressure.....they will play with a spirit of new beginning....

[plato-ny]

i don't see why.

another wise man will just open another thread and continue the argument and besides the thread went off topic a very long time ago

and now as we all wait fifa's ruling, turkey being banned from 2010 i don't think is absolutely certain but i think there exists a very strong chance since they have a previous history. actually my turkish friend was very upset at that possibility but unless they admit they are doing something wrong instead of always arguing that "the other guys started it" then nothing will get done to begin with.

...I watched the replay of the end of the match Turkey-Switzerland

and it was a shame for my country...

...our (turkish ) side has 100 % made mistake....

....ok --but whats now?? I think turkish FA can learn from this and has the power and the right organisation to make it better in future...

...But I just want to say : FIFA President is from switzerland...this makes this case much more interesting for the FIFA...

if Turkey had play against any other nation ....this all wouldnt be talked now by the FIFA i believe .....and hope fo better times.

I believe Turkey will play in Euro 2008 in Switzerland and will get the cup.

I can say this cause I know the strength of young turkish football players...

how I said : nobody can stop the Turks......just remeber Turkey is European Champion with the U-17 2005 !! And played semi fianls in WC 2005 Peru of U-17!

Also there are many young turkish players who will play until now....in the A-team.

Turkey has much more future and talented players than Greece...believe me... I just TALK ABOUT facts ...I dont want to call names now ..the list is too long.

NOW that we dont go to Germany is the beginning of a new age for our national team....now young players will play without having pressure.....they will play with a spirit of new beginning....

The only reason you are saying that Turkey will win Euro 2008 is because of a complex of Greece being the current Euro champ.

Now, regarding your theory that Turkey will win Euro 2008 on the premise that Turkey won ec-17 and made the semis of wc-17. Do you know how many times a u-17 team in Europe who won the title went on to win a Eurocup? Since the competition's existence in 1982, only ONCE has a ec-17 title winner went on to win a Eurocup or a World Cup:

Germany 1992. They went on to win the EuroCup in 1996.

So, dont try to convince us that Turkey will win Euro 2008 because that is only your opinion...

[plato-ny]

i don't see why.

another wise man will just open another thread and continue the argument and besides the thread went off topic a very long time ago

and now as we all wait fifa's ruling, turkey being banned from 2010 i don't think is absolutely certain but i think there exists a very strong chance since they have a previous history. actually my turkish friend was very upset at that possibility but unless they admit they are doing something wrong instead of always arguing that "the other guys started it" then nothing will get done to begin with.

...I watched the replay of the end of the match Turkey-Switzerland

and it was a shame for my country...

...our (turkish ) side has 100 % made mistake....

....ok --but whats now?? I think turkish FA can learn from this and has the power and the right organisation to make it better in future...

...But I just want to say : FIFA President is from switzerland...this makes this case much more interesting for the FIFA...

if Turkey had play against any other nation ....this all wouldnt be talked now by the FIFA i believe .....and hope fo better times.

I believe Turkey will play in Euro 2008 in Switzerland and will get the cup.

I can say this cause I know the strength of young turkish football players...

how I said : nobody can stop the Turks......just remeber Turkey is European Champion with the U-17 2005 !! And played semi fianls in WC 2005 Peru of U-17!

Also there are many young turkish players who will play until now....in the A-team.

Turkey has much more future and talented players than Greece...believe me... I just TALK ABOUT facts ...I dont want to call names now ..the list is too long.

NOW that we dont go to Germany is the beginning of a new age for our national team....now young players will play without having pressure.....they will play with a spirit of new beginning....

The only reason you are saying that Turkey will win Euro 2008 is because of a complex of Greece being the current Euro champ.

Now, regarding your theory that Turkey will win Euro 2008 on the premise that Turkey won ec-17 and made the semis of wc-17, do you know how many times a u-17 team in Europe that won the title went on to win a Eurocup? Since the competition's existence in 1982, only ONCE has a ec-17 title winner went on to win a Eurocup:

Germany 1992. They went on to win the EuroCup in 1996.

Only one team has also gone on to win the WC:

Germany of 1984. So, ONE team did both.

Also, since the Wc-17 existence since 1985, only one European finalist has gone on to win the WC. Germany of 1985, the same team that was Germany of 1984.

Brazil won in 1999 and went on to win WC 2002. But thats it.

If you look at EC-17 history, Spain and Portugal won several times and how many EC/WC's have they won since the competition's existence in 1982?

If you look at WC-17 history, since the competition's existence in 1985, several Euro countries made the semis and NONE went on to win gold in EC/WC.

Denmark and Greece never won a EC-17 or WC-17, not even close. Result? Both are Euro winners.

Oh, since you think that Turkey has a future and Greece doesnt, consider this. Turkey won EC-17 in 1994. 11 years ago. How much gold did Turkey win in EC/WC's?

Greece's future is getting ready to defend its Euro title for 2008. Turkey's future is praying that they dont get banned in WC 2010 or get a multiple home-game ban for WC 2010 or getting knocked out in the playoffs for the third straight time by an "inferior" opponent.

So, dont make mountains out of molehills and dont try to convince us that Turkey will win Euro 2008 because history is against you...

[jarvis1981]

i don't see why.

another wise man will just open another thread and continue the argument and besides the thread went off topic a very long time ago

and now as we all wait fifa's ruling, turkey being banned from 2010 i don't think is absolutely certain but i think there exists a very strong chance since they have a previous history. actually my turkish friend was very upset at that possibility but unless they admit they are doing something wrong instead of always arguing that "the other guys started it" then nothing will get done to begin with.

...I watched the replay of the end of the match Turkey-Switzerland

and it was a shame for my country...

...our (turkish ) side has 100 % made mistake....

....ok --but whats now?? I think turkish FA can learn from this and has the power and the right organisation to make it better in future...

...But I just want to say : FIFA President is from switzerland...this makes this case much more interesting for the FIFA...

if Turkey had play against any other nation ....this all wouldnt be talked now by the FIFA i believe .....and hope fo better times.

I believe Turkey will play in Euro 2008 in Switzerland and will get the cup.

I can say this cause I know the strength of young turkish football players...

how I said : nobody can stop the Turks......just remeber Turkey is European Champion with the U-17 2005 !! And played semi fianls in WC 2005 Peru of U-17!

Also there are many young turkish players who will play until now....in the A-team.

Turkey has much more future and talented players than Greece...believe me... I just TALK ABOUT facts ...I dont want to call names now ..the list is too long.

NOW that we dont go to Germany is the beginning of a new age for our national team....now young players will play without having pressure.....they will play with a spirit of new beginning....

If what you are saying is true.........that Turkey not only has some players now who will play in the next Euro and WC qualifiers but has an abundance of good youth players for the next tourney.....then I will say that this will indeed be your downfall.

How will you keep all those players happy.....I envision a number of players pulling political strings to get playing time and making others (mostly young players) watch from the sideline in disgust.

This dissention in the ranks can lead to a team imploding. I sense this will happen to Turkey. The National team is a volatile group (see Swiss-Turkey game 2) and I don't expect their whole team to remain calm when some of them feel they should play.

Maybe it would be better for your team to be banned for a while to avoid the scenario above.

And make no mistake about it.....this scenario has happened many times in sport. You are far better off having a cohesive group then all the best players who can't get along.

[Guest Protathlitis7]

Turkcell, turkey has 50 million more people than Greece. I dont want to get into racial things but why is it that we dominate you in all sports? basketball, olympics, football? osfp 3 - 0 gala, pao 5 - 2 fener, Aigalew 1 - 0 gencerbiligi, anorthosis 3 - 1 trabzonspor

but the fact is we are european champions and are ahead on UEFA coefficients

Turkish club football is going worse than Greek (if thats possible)

and you NT got knocked out by latvia and swizterland after a decent rin in the world cup. but who did you beat in the world cup? china, costa rica, senegal, japan?

we knocked out portugal hosts twice, france holders and favourites, czechs second favourites and spain

its all well and good to say you have talented young players but what the hell does that mean in this argument. prove yourselves

and you are telling us to talk about FACTS???????????????????