Greece - Germany

[Guest geok]

[Omonoia9]

Over all, not a bad Euro 2012: we qualified as 1st in our group over Croatia. We qualified out of our group, in Poland, for the quarterfinals.

On to World Cup 2014! :gr:

Couldn't have said it any better myself

[jarvis1981]

First of all, great work by Salpi to get the ball to Samaras to tie up the game, for a moment the Greek team had hope.

The Germans came back with two quick goals and that was it. Good for Salpi to get the last goal, he deseved one for all his work in the tournament.

Greek is lacking youth, speed and depth. The real coaching for Samaras starts today. The team can now take on his identity. More of the youth needs to play in the World Cup qualifiers. The current team still has coach Otto written on it.

Congrats to the team for a top 8 Euro finish, now it's time to move on.

[mangas21]

thats what happens when you sit back like a lame duck....

i hope you listen to the commentators......."too easy", "too much space" "no pressure on the ball"....

yeah just sit back and let them play palamakia while they inch closer and KLOSER to the goal...

if u think those guys were not vulnerable in the back you are crazy...but it did not matter......once they saw our "strategy" of sitting back they brought the whole army forward.....

nonsense.......absolute nonsense.....

B game today----you cant beat germany playing a b game

[Omonoia9]

thats what happens when you sit back like a lame duck....

i hope you listen to the commentators......."too easy", "too much space" "no pressure on the ball"....

yeah just sit back and let them play palamakia while they inch closer and KLOSER to the goal...

if u think those guys were not vulnerable in the back you are crazy...but it did not matter......once they saw our "strategy" of sitting back they brought the whole army forward.....

nonsense.......absolute nonsense.....

B game today----you cant beat germany playing a b game

We were afraid of them, and it showed, but I still think we had a good tournament

[mangas21]

thats right omo.....im glad someone else saw it...it was plain as the nose on your face....i was afraid of that, and i was kicking and screaming about that very fact before the game...you CANT play with fear....and, honestly though it is based on fear, i just dont think any greek team i have seen is CONFIDENT playing forward....they have always played a tight, "defend and counter" style.....

this is an otto type team that is not as good defensively, and lacks the skill players to counter as effectively....that my opinion.

i think getting to the final 8 is good, obviously....

we missed kara today BIG TIME....we needed a LEADER to give the boys THAROS....you know? nobody stepped up to assume that role, NOBODY....

[Genome]

Over all, not a bad Euro 2012: we qualified as 1st in our group over Croatia. We qualified out of our group, in Poland, for the quarterfinals.

On to World Cup 2014!

[js1000]

the problem is the midfield, we can't keep possession, the personnel in midfield lack quality makos fotakis are average at best, ninis had promise but has regressed he seems nervous at this level, fetfatzidis isn't getting minutes at olympiakos, fortounis isn't ready yet which is why katsouranis and karagounis still get playing time.

Sifakis makes me really miss Nikopolidis

:ph34r:

he looked shaky but he's hardly played this season which showed tonight but he is by far the best keeper greece has, and had 2 solid games prior to this one.

how ANYONE can miss having clown cloony in goal is beyond me

[gcp]

Mpravo sta paidia? Good tournament you say? Were you watching a different game than me today? The Germs completely undressed us in front of the world for god's sake!! They were supposed to be playing for all the Greeks or so they said...The Germans were 5 levels above us, even though their defense is full of holes and will be raped in the next game or two.

That's why we Greeks never strive to do better because we are satisfied with mediocrity and dare call it success. Today I am ashamed for all of us! And one more thing, up until now I took up for Santos but I guess I was wrong as he showed unequivocally he had no strategic answers, and a handful of players who are willing to work with diligence and heart 90+ mins. In 4 games as a team they played maybe 125 mins worth? So, as far as I’m concerned this was a pitiful showing and a pitiful performance!

Ante kala onira giati mono eki ta pame kala!

[Omonoia9]

the problem is the midfield, we can't keep possession, the personnel in midfield lack quality makos fotakis are average at best, ninis had promise but has regressed he seems nervous at this level, fetfatzidis isn't getting minutes at olympiakos, fortounis isn't ready yet which is why katsouranis and karagounis still get playing time.

:ph34r:

he looked shaky but he's hardly played this season which showed tonight but he is by far the best keeper greece has, and had 2 solid games prior to this one.

how ANYONE can miss having clown cloony in goal is beyond me

Nikopolidis in his prime(especially '04) far surpasses Sifakis.

[Omonoia9]

Mpravo sta paidia? Good tournament you say? Were you watching a different game than me today? The Germs completely undressed us in front of the world for god's sake!! They were supposed to be playing for all the Greeks or so they said...The Germans were 5 levels above us, even though their defense is full of holes and will be raped in the next game or two.

That's why we Greeks never strive to do better because we are satisfied with mediocrity and dare call it success. Today I am ashamed for all of us! And one more thing, up until now I took up for Santos but I guess I was wrong as he showed unequivocally he had no strategic answers, and a handful of players who are willing to work with diligence and heart 90+ mins. In 4 games as a team they played maybe 125 mins worth? So, as far as I

[Genome]

Mpravo sta paidia? Good tournament you say? Were you watching a different game than me today? The Germs completely undressed us in front of the world for god's sake!! They were supposed to be playing for all the Greeks or so they said...The Germans were 5 levels above us, even though their defense is full of holes and will be raped in the next game or two.

That's why we Greeks never strive to do better because we are satisfied with mediocrity and dare call it success. Today I am ashamed for all of us! And one more thing, up until now I took up for Santos but I guess I was wrong as he showed unequivocally he had no strategic answers, and a handful of players who are willing to work with diligence and heart 90+ mins. In 4 games as a team they played maybe 125 mins worth? So, as far as I’m concerned this was a pitiful showing and a pitiful performance!

Ante kala onira giati mono eki ta pame kala!

No Greeks never strive to do better because when they do good like getting to the quarter finals, there will inevitably still be people calling it a failure.

Undefeated in the run up to the tournament, granted, a shaky start in the group but got to the quarter final and then defeated by the team that's favorite to play the final (together with Spain), so YES, A BIG BRAVO STA PAIDIA! :gr: :gr: :gr:

That doesn't mean there is no room for improvement (obviously)...

[Lazarus]

It was not the fact that they lost that was disappointing (that too). It was the fact that they couldn't play ball. Couldn't string two balls together, couldn't make any kind of organized effort. It was not because the Germans were so good. It was because (for whatever reason) we were TERRIBLE. Afraid. I can't cheer for a team like this.

Yes, I'm Greek in my heart and it tears me apart to sit through this kind of humiliation. Humiliation not because of defeat, but because of the ugliness of performance. And while winning games is good, it is not all about winning. It's about how you play the game, the entertainment factor, the spectacle. Anybody with a little self-respect would call the version of soccer that we play by it's real name:

[andrew_g]

I didn't see the game, I was too nervous so I won't comment. I can say a few things. Greece had what should have been a goal against the Poles, one was disallowed against the Czechs, and in addition to that 5 other goals in four games. That's 8 goals in 4 games not bad for only creating very few chances. If you look at our strike rate and compare it to the Germans we have a far better chance of scoring if we move forward.

Had we not played with fear we would have won.

A telling stat:

When Greece played with a back four just made up of defenders, not midfielders subbing for defenders we had a very stingy defence. When we put Katsou in place of Sokratis, and then Fotakis in place of Tzevellas, we gave up 5 goals in 140 minutes.

A few things:

I think Chiotis needs to be our keeper, he isn't a cry baby and is brave and dynamic.

We were missing our leader Karagounis, he would have tackled and won fouls and would not have surendered like Ninis.

I think Ninis doesn't want to get hurt before he goes to Italy. The two failures in our team have been that German-Uruguayan Holebas and the Albania Ninis. You need players who are going to bleed for that shirt, both of those guys acted like they were on vacation.

And not having Fetzfatzidis playing, that was insane. He could weave past defenders, instead they brought Lyberoupoulos whose days are over.

Let us be happy we made it to the quarters, the refs were against us; maybe Platini will never forgive Gagatsis for doing that little dance of glory in front of him when Charisteas scored against Portugal.

Let's put something in perspective, a quarter final spot is great. Michael Ballack, Maldini, Nistelroy, and Beckham have never won a Euro medal. It's no easy task and we did it. And we have qualified for four out of five tournaments and now we have shown we are not the whipping boys, but we can go into the second week of a finals and with some luck and fair calls by the refs we had a shot at the semi-final. Two goals against the Germans is impressive and nothing to be ashamed about. I would have rather lost 4-2 rather than 2-0 or 3-0.

Go Greece!

[mangas21]

no consistent effort....one day A- game, the next C+....dont know if its coaching, strategy etc.

when u dont bring guys down into the other teams zone, you cant play creative, offensive soccer...when u park the bus in front of the goal, the battering ram is eventually gonna break the door down...

we dont impose our will on games...thats done by threatening the other side offensively, pushing their guys back, and preventing them from bringing their entire team forward as they must respect the offense.

Germany was DARING us to counter - they kept two guys back really, why? no fear...and, we compoind it by putting 12 guys behind the ball...what message do we send when we do that?

1. we are not confident going forward

2. bring all your guys down..do ahead...here is all the room you need to make us look like the keystone cops.

[gcp]

"No Greeks never strive to do better because when they do good like getting to the quarter finals, there will inevitably still be people calling it a failure."

Genome, it is a failure. The only one that can claim they didn't fail is the one that wins! One winner and a bunch of losers. And that where we are today, at the bottom of the heap of the remaining loosers.

Excuses don't make you better they make you complacent and god knows we are that if nothing else as a society. A song comes to mind, "oi gloses mas megales alla ta tsoutsounia mas mikra."

I've said it SOOOOOO many times before, the midfield and control of the ball, to include heart and desire, as mangas screams out, wins games with consistency. And of course my favorite attitude, professionalism. We posses non of the above and it's evident, no matter who dresses it as success. We were undone from the root yesterday, utterly naked and incapable in front of the whole world. I remain ashamed!

[Omonoia9]

"No Greeks never strive to do better because when they do good like getting to the quarter finals, there will inevitably still be people calling it a failure."

Genome, it is a failure. The only one that can claim they didn't fail is the one that wins! One winner and a bunch of losers. And that where we are today, at the bottom of the heap of the remaining loosers.

Excuses don't make you better they make you complacent and god knows we are that if nothing else as a society. A song comes to mind, "oi gloses mas megales alla ta tsoutsounia mas mikra."

I've said it SOOOOOO many times before, the midfield and control of the ball, to include heart and desire, as mangas screams out, wins games with consistency. And of course my favorite attitude, professionalism. We posses non of the above and it's evident, no matter who dresses it as success. We were undone from the root yesterday, utterly naked and incapable in front of the whole world. I remain ashamed!

Then you had unrealistic expectations.

[gcp]

"No Greeks never strive to do better because when they do good like getting to the quarter finals, there will inevitably still be people calling it a failure."

Genome, it is a failure. The only one that can claim they didn't fail is the one that wins! One winner and a bunch of losers. And that where we are today, at the bottom of the heap of the remaining loosers.

Excuses don't make you better they make you complacent and god knows we are that if nothing else as a society. A song comes to mind, "oi gloses mas megales alla ta tsoutsounia mas mikra."

I've said it SOOOOOO many times before, the midfield and control of the ball, to include heart and desire, as mangas screams out, wins games with consistency. And of course my favorite attitude, professionalism. We posses non of the above and it's evident, no matter who dresses it as success. We were undone from the root yesterday, utterly naked and incapable in front of the whole world. I remain ashamed!

Then you had unrealistic expectations.

If striving to do the best one can do is an unrealistic expectation on your part, and you are a true representation of today's Greek, no wonder the country is in the shape it's in! Be happy to be the karpazoispraktoras of the world then, and the laughing boy of the Germans but afford me the distinction to not like it a damn bit, and to differ because your mediocre attitude has a direct effect on my reputation as well.

[Clover22]

Mpravo sta paidia? Good tournament you say? Were you watching a different game than me today? The Germs completely undressed us in front of the world for god's sake!! They were supposed to be playing for all the Greeks or so they said...The Germans were 5 levels above us, even though their defense is full of holes and will be raped in the next game or two.

That's why we Greeks never strive to do better because we are satisfied with mediocrity and dare call it success. Today I am ashamed for all of us! And one more thing, up until now I took up for Santos but I guess I was wrong as he showed unequivocally he had no strategic answers, and a handful of players who are willing to work with diligence and heart 90+ mins.  In 4 games as a team they played maybe 125 mins worth? So, as far as I

[Clover22]

I can't believe anyone could be satisfied with this tournament; its like mediocrity is okay! The point is we could have done much better had we a strong midfield in place. But they f ucked up, didn't they. For god's sake its not that complicated: Fotakis, Fortounis, Ninis, Fetfa. Find the right chemistry and put it together. I thought Santos was going for a more attacking style during the qualifiers, but we get to the Euro and he goes defensive. BIG mistake especially against Germany. If you have a bunch of defensive guys to block and kick the ball away and not keep posession then look what happens. Offensively they were excellent but defensively they are not the greatest the world has seen and we could have exploited that with the right combination of creative mids: that means NO Karagounis. Santos had time to prepare for this.

This could have been much different for us and its a shame because I think a lot of people wanted us to beat Germany.

[Genome]

"No Greeks never strive to do better because when they do good like getting to the quarter finals, there will inevitably still be people calling it a failure."

Genome, it is a failure. The only one that can claim they didn't fail is the one that wins! One winner and a bunch of losers. And that where we are today, at the bottom of the heap of the remaining loosers.

Excuses don't make you better they make you complacent and god knows we are that if nothing else as a society. A song comes to mind, "oi gloses mas megales alla ta tsoutsounia mas mikra."

I've said it SOOOOOO many times before, the midfield and control of the ball, to include heart and desire, as mangas screams out, wins games with consistency. And of course my favorite attitude, professionalism. We posses non of the above and it's evident, no matter who dresses it as success. We were undone from the root yesterday, utterly naked and incapable in front of the whole world. I remain ashamed!

I think our opinions are not that far apart, only I see reaching the quarter final as improvement (as to being stuck in the group phase after Euro 2004).

As I said there is obviously room for improvement but I can't call this run a failure just because we didn't go home with the cup. Take the positives (don't tell me you think there aren't any) and work with that to improve.

Don't get me wrong I'm just as frustrated as you that we didn't go further in the tournament, frustrated because I think we could have, but again I think calling this run a failure is harsh...

[PAO-1908]

Well done Ellada!! considering your limitations you all did a fine job. As for individual players : Ninis should be off the team till his fitness inproves. Sifakis needs to play on high caliber team either in Greece or outside of Greece in order for him to see high caliber shots. The goalie from Apoel should be the back up or given a chance to challenge for starting position. If Karagounis plays like he did at these EURO's then he still has 2 good years left in him. Samaras showed inprovement in the last two games. We need midfielders as the quality has weekend the last few years. The youngsters need a chance to play, Fourtounis ,Fetfadidis, Mitroglou, they need more min, But Santos BIG KATSOURANIS at defence that showed he has no faith in Tsavellas who played well when given a chance.Lastly , EPO needs more balls to appeal stupid calls like Karagounis call and Papastothopoulos. If that was a bigger nation they would have challenged and not accepted the calls. In the past Karagounis did have a bad tendancy of rolling around but for the first time in his life he was a man out there and he showed his passion as it shows. I can go on and on but as we were put on paper our value as a team showed there net worth. See you in Brazil 2014 as our division to qualify is one of the easiest it has been since I can remember.

[gcp]

"No Greeks never strive to do better because when they do good like getting to the quarter finals, there will inevitably still be people calling it a failure."

Genome, it is a failure. The only one that can claim they didn't fail is the one that wins! One winner and a bunch of losers. And that where we are today, at the bottom of the heap of the remaining loosers.

Excuses don't make you better they make you complacent and god knows we are that if nothing else as a society. A song comes to mind, "oi gloses mas megales alla ta tsoutsounia mas mikra."

I've said it SOOOOOO many times before, the midfield and control of the ball, to include heart and desire, as mangas screams out, wins games with consistency. And of course my favorite attitude, professionalism. We posses non of the above and it's evident, no matter who dresses it as success. We were undone from the root yesterday, utterly naked and incapable in front of the whole world. I remain ashamed!

I think our opinions are not that far apart, only I see reaching the quarter final as improvement (as to being stuck in the group phase after Euro 2004).

As I said there is obviously room for improvement but I can't call this run a failure just because we didn't go home with the cup. Take the positives (don't tell me you think there aren't any) and work with that to improve.

Don't get me wrong I'm just as frustrated as you that we didn't go further in the tournament, frustrated because I think we could have, but again I think calling this run a failure is harsh...

Genome you are right, we are not that far apart. I am simply suggesting that to call this run a success waters down our full capabilities as a race. Our NT is a true representation of our society and that of the Germans. Do you see the difference in professionalism, quality of approach, execution, and desire to win and prove to be the best? That's belief in one's self!! It all comes down to work ethic and that's what we lack most of all. I CAN say bravo to Salpigidis for giving it all he has, each and every time, as well as Papa! Katsou and Kara on the other hand continue to set a bad example. And one more thing, what's the deal with the perpetual Kara 6 o’clock shadow, is this unclean cut absolutely necessary? Does anyone in today's age think it a cool look?

[plato-ny]

Greece did the best they could've done against a world-class German team. Alllowing 4 goals against a German team that, in WC 2010, scored 4 goals, respectively, against Australia, and world-class teams England and Argentina, is nothing to be ashamed of. Those teams combined managed to score 1 goal which leads to the next point below.

Greece managed to be efficient on there very few scoring chances and scored 2 goals, which is the best that any team has done against Germany in Euro 2012 so far. It became interesting, for all of 6 minutes, when Samaras tied it at 1-1 early in the second half before the German machine scored 3 goals in 13 minutes.

There was obvious tactical errors on Greece's defensive scheme but Germany scored 4 well-deserved goals and are the only team that can challenge the defending champions, Spain. Greece did well in Euro 2012, their best performance outside of Euro 2004, which consisted of a historic victory against Russia and, what could have been, a victory against co-host Poland if not for a missed penalty. Unlike the Euro 2008 and WC 2010 group stages, Greece managed to score in all their matches at the group stage of Euro 2012, including the quarterfinal, and that, in itself, is an accomplishment considering their defensive style of play and lack of offensive ability. Heck, after the penalty scored against Germany, Salpi became the only player to have scored in a Euro and WC for Greece.

Congrats to ze Germans on a well-deserved victory. For Greece, now, it is on to WC 2014 qualification and, before that, a friendly against the Norwegians in August.

[andrew_g]

I know how certain things hurt, but it was a success which we should celebrate.

there are regrets, why not play Fetzfatzidis, why not put Chiotis in rather than Chalkias, why have the refs against us when we could have if we qualified first beaten Portugal.

Soccer is about luck and let's just say that in 2004 how about if one of those Czech shots went into the back of our net we wouldn't have won the final. We got lucky at times and it has been 8 years of at times poor skill and horrible luck such as (the offside call against a legit Gekas goal against Russia in 2008).

Luck works for you and against you.

But at the same time, I like Santos because this team has fight back quality, which we never ever had. In Otto's time except for that game against Nigeria, after giving up a goal we would implode. With Santos we seem to try to fight back.

But he still did some crazy things tactically, and I think if he played his cards right and the referees were fair, we had a chance at making the final. Do I think we could have won again? No. But we had a good chance of reliving some of that 2004 glory.

Whatever the case, good job. We have Vellios, Karnezis, Fetzfatzidis, Torosidis, Sammaras, Papa, Sokratis, Fortounis, Tzavellas, and many more young players. These guys are going to improve, the future is bright.