Villarreal - Panathinaikos

[XXX-18T]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnZj7PqsDkI

Can we appeal or complain should of been 2-1!

[NYPAO13]

1-1 great result. Karas goal was world class.. The ball did cross the line, regardless of what the blind commentator said, He jumped the gun on saying the ball didnt cross the line & stupidly stuck to his guns. On the penalty.. you have a ref allowing play to go on, & he was consistant with that, which created this penalty & i agreed with it. Jakub is clearly trying to trip up the player..

My bigger problem.. What the hell kind of starting line up was that.Spyropoulos was total crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You mean to tell me this was the best player available to play that spot.... Although we got this nice result, we got totally outplayed. If this happens in Athens we will lose 2-0. Lets not kid ourselves. Lets not be like the gavrous, this is reality!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cyberfish]

I kind of agree that Spyropoulos-Nilsson might have not been the best choices to play in midfield. On the other hand, while they were not spirited offensively, they did mark more tenaciously than you would expect Gabriel or Ivanschic. Having seen the game it's hard to second guess the coach. Villarreal was coming from all angles and it is conceivable that one or two more offensive players in midfield could have allowed the home team to score one or two. I think Ten Cate took the players inexperience into account. Once the game was underway and they looked more comfortable, he pushed them forward, changed the formation and added Gabriel instead of Goumas.

On the technology question. I agree too that in certain cases it could make a huge difference. UEFA has been entertaining thoughts and has tried several things over the past few years. They did experiment with adding two more assistants that loiter in the penalty area only, and they have tried some technology that can signal when the ball crosses the line. This latter thought was years ago but I have not heard about since then. Just recently I read about an experiment in South America where the refs use a special spray can to paint a line where the wall needs to form in freekicks. The line disapears after a few minutes.

Regarding instant replay, I am a huge fan of it. It has been used in another major sport (NFL) and if implemented correctly it could work miracles. The key is to allow the referee to make the decision. For those not familiar with it, in American Football (the one played with the hands from all body parts) each coach can throw a little flag to signal that they want a play to be reviewed. Then the referee runs to the sideline and takes a look at various replays on a little monitor. Within a minute or two he comes back and announces on the microphone he wears his decision to let play stand or to overturn the original decision. Each coach has only two challenges per game and if the ref decides that the on-field decision stands the team loses a timeout.

Sure soccer is a bit different, but I can see how instant replay can fit nicely in certain cases. I can't thin of a way that could help with offside plays because the play would be interrupted and implementing an overturning rule would radically alter the game.

But in penalty cases and ball crossing the goal line it would fit perfectly. In penalties especially, the argument that we don't want to interrupt the flow of the game is bogus because ALWAYS the game is interrrupted for at least two minutes for everyone to set up and for defenders to complain. The ref running to the "peep booth" to review the play would no be more disruptive and it would stop all the complaining that delays the game in an unruly way.

I think besides a conservative FIFA and UEFA, the biggest obstacle to using replays and extra refs is economics. Extra officials would double the officiating overhead for each game, but it could be offset by getting rid of the fourth official (the games were just fine before they instituted them).

When it comes to technology additions like replays, a very complex infrastructure of cameras and technicians must be guaranteed to ensure that every game has equal technology coverage. I don't see it as viable across the board. Imagine games like Thrasyvoulos-Levadiakos where they have 50 paying spectators and another 200 freebies. Who would pay to ensure five to 10 cameras present?

But in competitions like the Champions League where revenues are insane and billions of dollars are at stake (in betting and revenues for everyone involved) it is almost criminal that they have not implemented instant replay.

[cyberfish]

Ha ha, I just heard on ERA sport that the same referee, Plautz was the ref in the legendary Juve-Olympiakos 7-0

I guess we should count our blessings. I could have been much worst :LOL:

[pao123]

yes i believe we were wronged in this game on numerous occasions...mantzio should have buried the game as well...that would have given us such an increidlbe advantage, but regardless of these things we still got a very positive result...we scored away which is incredible and only conceeded one to a very quick attacking team...the game at oaka will be just as tough as this one, i hope ten cate has a good plan for that game bc i think villareal will come out flying..yesterday i believe we were both lucky and very unlucky but that is football...bravo karagouni...i think his blood is green!

[Clover22]

Man that was something! Good result for us but not a great result, because I think we could have beaten these clowns. If TC had more proper attacking mids and 2 strikers as opposed to 1, we would have kept more posession of the ball and would have created more scoring opportunities. There were some moments where Villa were just passing around all these defensive guys and often finding the space. The point is, TC thought they would be less dangerous w/ all these defenders, but they were still dangerous! So I think keeping possesion is the key. At any rate we certainly played well and strung together good passes. I think they should concentrate on scoring a couple of early goals in Athens, to finish them off. I could see Tziolis being good in this game; I hope he comes back. Boy did these guys turn out to be a bunch of bastards, real championship divers. And that sonofabitch who pushed TC should have been taken out of the game! That ref better not come to Athens; this was favoritism at its best. TC and the management should complain to uefa about this crap, NO QUESTION. And YES, they showed the replay of our first goal and there's no argument, he went over the line - it was a goal. Should have been 2 - 1. I favor playback monitors.

[Genome]

Uefa.com articles relating to this game:

Mixed emotions for conflicted Senna

The prevailing mood among the Villarreal CF players was frustrated but not despondent after Giuseppe Rossi's penalty midway through the second half had earned a 1-1 draw against Panathinaikos FC in the first leg of the UEFA Champions League first knockout round.

Source + full article.

Pellegrini puzzled by Panathinaikos escape

Villarreal CF coach Manuel Pellegrini was frustrated that his side spurned a litany of chances as Panathinaikos FC escaped with a 'very unfair draw' in their first leg of their UEFA Champions League knockout tie at El Madrigal. His opposite number Henk Ten Cate admitted his charges rode their luck but is upbeat about their chances despite watching Giorgos Karagounis's fine second-half strike cancelled out by Giuseppe Rossi's penalty.

Source + full article.

Rossi to the rescue for Villarreal

Villarreal CF preserved their proud unbeaten record at El Madrigal in the UEFA Champions League but surrendered a crucial away goal in drawing with Panathinaikos FC.

Source + full article.

Gilberto pinpoints Panathinaikos progress

It is unusual that a team avoids an away defeat against Spanish opposition in UEFA club competition for the first time yet travels home pondering what might have been, but such was the paradox facing Panathinaikos FC after the first leg of their first knockout round tie at Villarreal CF.

Source + full article.

[cyberfish]

I love how us, panathinaikos fans take our team's success in Europe for granted; even putting forth our coaching prowless as to how we could have won so easily if this or that player was in the lineup instead of this other one.

In the mean time, Bremen eliminated Milan from the UEFA cup today. Think about it, we went to Bremen and scored three. We went to Inter and scored one. We went to Spain and pulled a tie. And we've done it with virtually the same players as last year (+Gilberto).

I am a happy camper. No matter what happens from now on, this team has given me serious reasons to be happy, but a little dream that we'll thrash Villarreal in OAKA is creeping in my mind. I wish I could be there.

[NikosVazelas]

I agree and disagree....

First off.. We are PANATHINAIKOS. which means what exactly...

Well, it means this simply...

No matter how corrupt and unfair our league is, we always manage a way to show our worth in the ranks of europes top clubs and its famous tournament.

We EXPECT this from our team. Its kinda their fault by gettin us used to these types of performances..

For the past two years, we have heard hogwash from our lovely enemies saying that Pao is gettin points in because they are playing in Uefa.. yet, here we stand and oly is eliminated from that same competition with 2 wins and 4 losses against teams like Galatasaray, St-Etienne and Metalis Something. 4 losses in 6 games... We played in the Uefa the past 2 seasons, and lost 3 total. in 12 games.

Therefore it shouldnt come by any surprise that we as an organization have much more prestige in europe then teams like Oly. Who only get there by winning our corrupt league by any means neccasary.

As for our team this year... well cyber... it isnt the same team that played in europe last season. You were close but you also forgot a major part of it, although many of you dont see it that way.

Our Defensive line is completely different.

Ill explain. First off... Vyntra as a CB, i hate to say it, is seriously and not jokingly, VERY good. He is almost the best CB we have had in recent years. Fast, Agile and a GREAT taclker. Need i remind you of Vyntradihno against Barcelona 3 years ago. Truth is, i have said it before, VYNTRA without the ball is class.. Thats why CB suits him just fine. Last year he was playing on the left. Which is where we copped our last minute goal from Rangers.

So remove Morris and add Vyntra, (definate upgrade) and let us not forget, some of you may not liek this... but.. OUR left back...

Spyropoulos.. who has been gettin lots of slack in here by almost everyone. we got him last january and wasnt eligible for europe as he had already played wth panionio. def upgrade over fyssas and much better than Vyntra at LB.

In fact, as much as some of you hate him, his defensive work has been fantastic this season so far. Look it up.. 0 goals against from his side in europe.

the first two games, nilsson and simao at CB had difficulties. Spyropoulos was sensational.

Since then however, Nilsson in europe has been sensational, in spite of what DUDE says and simao at DM is pure class.

Worry not young trifilia... This team is great... always room for improvement but even messi wouldnt help in our league if the officiating is against you....

as for the return leg... i say 0-0 or 1-0 for pao. write it down... Pao is in the quarters... AGAIN... man that must really burn Oly fans...

Enjoy your corrupt titles....

[levendi2000]

haha enjoy your corrupt titles??

couldn't of said ti any better!! i like :tup:

[Euro2004]

VYNTRA without the ball is class..

:LOL: Although I agree with you this is just such a hilarious thing to say about a footballer!

Spyropoulos.. who has been gettin lots of slack in here by almost everyone. we got him last january and wasnt eligible for europe as he had already played wth panionio. def upgrade over fyssas and much better than Vyntra at LB.

Well he's better than Fyssas during Fyssas' last spell at PAO but Fyssas at his best was a different class to Spyro re Niko.

the first two games, nilsson and simao at CB had difficulties. Spyropoulos was sensational.

Since then however, Nilsson in europe has been sensational, in spite of what DUDE says and simao at DM is pure class.

Not strictly true. The Swede was terrible yesterday.

as for the return leg... i say 0-0 or 1-0 for pao. write it down... Pao is in the quarters... AGAIN... man that must really burn Oly fans...

I wish I could share your optimism but I'm scared we'll lose. Our home form has been pretty poor in Europe this year. The pitch is wide and that won't allow us to play a narrow and compact formation. Villareal have the players to stretch us and that really worries me. To be honest if I was a betting man and was neutral I'd actually bet on Villareal to qualify. (That would leave me distraught because although my mind says Villareal, my heart has already decided that we've qualified) :whistle:

[NikosVazelas]

euro2004.. i was comparing spyro to last years fyssas.. as i said in my post.

the swede yesterday had a bad first half.. but was good in the 2nd

Vyntra is a very good cb... fact

he is a horrible rb

[NYPAO13]

sorry i must of been watching a different game, i thought apart from Kara & Mantzios, we totally sucked & are extremly lucky to have gotten this result. If we play like this again vs. this team... WE LOSE.

Must be better at OAKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cyberfish]

Hey Niko, I love Spyropoulos. I just don't give him as many breaks as he seems to get from everyone. I want to see more attack generated from him. I've been waiting all season to see him penetrate and even reach the box. I expect at least 3-5 successful runs down the left per game, and I demand at least 3 quality crosses per game. Is this too much? Nilsson on the right comes close to this even at the expense of getting exposed defensively a couple of times per game.

As for the rest, you made my point. Same roster re-shuffled to create a better team. Even if our defense is new like you say, it is our offense that has been vastly improved from last season. We score more and we are not predictable. The big difference this year is we have a better coach.

[PAO_OR_DEATH]

but in all seriousness can pao make a fuss about the goal???

i remember a chelsea liverpool semi had a dodgey line call and one of the teams bitched about it but nothing happend and i think thats when liverpool won the title...has anything changed??? can we complain??

i think we can do better in oaka, we are a good side and on ocasions we are a brilliant side , i think this will come down to us the fans, pao will need a 12th player in the return and that player better be ready and armed with pride and a voice to be heard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ZITO PAO MOY

[cyberfish]

Comparing all the stats from this match day Panathinaikos did the most running. This is indicative of the excellent conditioning of the team.

Gilberto, the older man on our roster was first in distance covered (12 km) and second in accurate passes (74%)

Here is the distance covered by team:

Chelsea: 109.7 km

Juventus 114.6

Villarreal 114.1

Panathinaikos 117.8

Sporting 107.5

Bayern 103.3

Real 105.3

Liverpool 108.1

Atletico 110.4

Porto 106.5

Lyon 107.1

Barcelona 107.9

Arsenal 117.3

Roma 113.9

Inter 104.5

ManU 104.9

I love looking at stats.

Most accurate passer of the game was Simao with 89%

Most pass attempts: Nilsson 48

Passes completed: Vintra 32 - Simao 31

Highest pass distribution: Nilsson to Vintra (9 passes - Mostly moving the ball out from defense I guess)

Then what you would expect. The three AMs triange - very disciplined numbers:

Karagounis to Spyropoulos: 8 passes

Karagounis to Nilsson: 8 passes

Spyropoulos to Karagounis: 8

Spyropoulos to Mantzios 7

Nilsson to Gilberto 6

Gilberto to Mantzios 5

Interesting that Simao did not have a favorite target for his passes. He distributed the ball all around. Similar to Gilberto distributing all around. 6 passes to Simao, 5 to Mantzios.

By comparison, Villarreal seem to favor the triangle Lopez-Sena-Carzola

Lopez to Carzola 27 passes

Lopez to Senna 17 passes

Carzola to Lopez 17

Senna to Lopez 17

If you enjoy tactics as much as I do, take a look at the tactical lineups

It's instructive as to what happens on the pitch to the formations we write down with the little -- lines.

Panathinaikos played a definite 3-5-2 all game long. Both Nilsson and Spyropoulos played on the center line. In the second half our attack seemed to stack on the left with Gilberto-Karagounis-Mantzios sliding left compared to the first half.

Intersting also that Nilsson held his own on the right. Villarreal kept three attackers on the inside-left in the first half picking mostly on Nilsson-Vintra-Goumas. Two of the three were subbed in the second half. So, Nilsson looking a bit overwhelmed might have been by design (something us fans miss as we watch the game. We just see the guy left behind and we assume he could have done better).

When they kept two forwards and tried to spread the game toward the wings with Cani on the right and Pirez playing on as LM while Cazorla moved even wider.

[athinaios]

This is excelent, Cyber. I hope our coach's team sees this. Many teams fall into a very predictable pattern. That's why when 1-2 players are "isolated" (well marked) their whole game falls apart.

I'm happily shocked to see Vyntra connecting his passes. This kid just a short time ago, couldn't only run and kick the ball uncontrollably! I'm impressed with his improvement. Maybe it was psychological. He could do very well in the practices, the coaches would see that and use him for the games (where he mostly sucked).

As for the complaining part.... Depends how you do it. No bitching is necessary, but we have to make sure UEFA (and all others in Euro) know that we're watching and not pleased. Protect ourselves for future games.

[GS1905]

.. Terrible first half, outplayed by Villarreal in every department, still a goal that may be given .. :unsure:

.. Hopeful start to the second half, levelling the game with the Spanish .. :rolleyes:

.. Hopes becoming a reality with the goal from Kara .. :tup:

.. Mr Joke taking things over and awarding a terrible penalty that wouldn't even be awarded to olympiacos in greece or fenerbahce in turkey! :angry:

.. coming away with a good result in the end, though Gilberto misses next match .. :whistle:

That's my summary! And who the hell is that Wazynryak or whatever?! Really impressed me! :o

[cyberfish]

Hey GS1905 you are going to give me a heart attack :)

Gilberto was booked but he didn't have a previous booking.

Goumas will miss the second leg after his booking.

[Clover22]

Good post Nikos Vazelas. I'm tired of reading about the luck factor; we have a good team and very talented players, GET USED TO IT ALREADY.

[cyberfish]

I was wondering how much money the team would make if they advanced to the 8. Sportdog has the answer: At least 6 million Euro!

[trifilli]

Another fantastic away result.

Ten Kate can get this team ready, he deserves credit.

Kara has already achieved legendary status at PAO.

Do not be fooled by the OAKA crowd advantage.

PAO has been better away, than home in CL so far.

Must score first, and stay composed.

I am truly enjoying the Euro PAO again.

PEACE

[cyberfish]

Does anyone have a photo of that Lopez back step with the ball?

[cyberfish]

I found a decent shot of Lopez backing into the goal with the ball and I did a few measurements in photoshop. There is no way for anyone to tell if the ball crossed in its entirety. Firstly, the pictures of the play are either too far or too foreshortened to gain a close-up. There is no way to gauge proper perspective on such distorted photos. Second, I am not even sure the most published photo depicts the last frame of the goalkeepers backward movement.

In any case from what I saw, the ball at the most crossed by 3/4 but not entirely. If it had counted, it would be an extremely controversial call.

One thing we can tell for sure, is that when it comes to close calls, PAO is getting the short end of the stick time and again. This call could had gone either way, the officials decided not to call it in our favor. If you watch the game again watch also how every dive by Villa players is called immediately. Every fall by PAO players invokes the ref's annoying "get up" signal with tons of attittude. Pires' two dives alone yeielded a penalty and a booking for Gilberto.

I loved how Gilberto ran away and ignored the ref's theatrical calls to go to him to see the yellow, and instead waived "you come here" to the ref when he was booked.

[GS1905]

In any case from what I saw, the ball at the most crossed by 3/4 but not entirely. If it had counted, it would be an extremely controversial call.

when I jogged back my memory, I remember a similar case scenario in the UEFA Cup Second Round game in 2002-03 season when Panathinaikos played Fenerbahce in Istanbul. It was something like 89 minutes as then-right-back of Fener, Akyel sent a high ball into the PAO box. The ball was deemed to be a long cross but he definitely overhit it and in the end Mr. Clooney the Fake held the ball. But there was a problem. His both feet were in the goal and Fenerbahce appealed that it was a goal. The game ended 1-1 and Fener supporters thought it could be a critical decision in deciding the tie. The game in Athens ended 4-1 and shut "Feneroise" mouths! :LOL: