Basketball - Beijing

[paxiotis7]

Vs whom?

Genome, i think Kolokotronis is right, I dont think they do the 5th place games anymore

[PurelyAcademic]

Since you seem to be in need of validation, Kolokotroni, the current powers are the USA, Spain, Argentina, Lithuania and Greece.

[loup]

celtics

or olympiakos

[DUDE]

And according to all the published reports I've read about the game, Greece has finished in the 5th spot (which I posted about several posts earlier).  I know something like 8th place would have been more to your liking, however, so you could really lay on your vitriol and criticism.

Seriously, give it up.

Which published reports?

Give me ONE.

Either you can't read, you're blind, or both, and none of the aforementioned would surprise me.

btw, are you still going to avoid the question as to who the best basketball TEAM on the planet is at the moment?

Just out of interest, why do you have to be so confrontational? I too agree that the US look by far and away the best team in the world at the moment, but why are you so aggressive with your posts? I've noticed you do that with football as well... chill out re. Have a cup of tea, go jogging, or put on some porn and masturbate... whatever chills you out, do it. Life's too short to get so stressed about how good the US basketball team is. Sta a*****a mas. Just wait til the US win it and then make your point calmly and in a relaxed fashion.

[Paoktsis]

Guys the US this time consentrated on talent and character vs talent only in the past, this why I feel they have the best shot at wining gold this time around. Also, playing against Argentina will be no cakewalk. I do however feel that if they go on and blowout Argentina and whoever they play in the final (if they get there), they should go with a combination of college kids and pros in the future (something like they did in soccer this year).

As a fan of USA and Greece (Greece ofcourse being first) it is no fun watching blowouts in Olympic Basketball, and putting in pros that dominate takes away from the spirit of the games and interest in the game as well.

[Kolokotronis]

Guys the US this time consentrated on talent and character vs talent only in the past, this why I feel they have the best shot at wining gold this time around. Also, playing against Argentina will be no cakewalk. I do however feel that if they go on and blowout Argentina and whoever they play in the final (if they get there), they should go with a combination of college kids and pros in the future (something like they did in soccer this year).

As a fan of USA and Greece (Greece ofcourse being first) it is no fun watching blowouts in Olympic Basketball, and putting in pros that dominate takes away from the spirit of the games and interest in the game as well.

The difference this year is that the US PREPARED. They're still not at 100%, but a hell of a lot more prepared than in years past. You can't put together ANY team in the world in 2-3 weeks, much the less one to compete at the Olympic level.

While the rest of the world has made great strides, theer's still quite a significant difference between the top tier Americans and what we see in FIBA. The results speak for themselves.

Soccer is the U-23 teams with four over age exceptions. It has nothing to do with college.

[loup]

my opinion

all sports should be open to all players

the soccer is a mess i'd say -- why 4 overage players? why not 2, or 7?

look at the us team a bunch of kids and McBride? That is weird.

Hockey and basketball are much more interesting with all the players involved. so what if the us is domiating this tournament. We have gone over how they have not done so in the last 6 years.

what are the other options? an age limit -- no thanks, I'd barely be interested

best vs best

the us used to keep 1 college grad on the team at the beginning of the Dream Team age, I didn't like and didn't understand the point of having Christian Laetner at the very end of the bench not doing anything.

[BlueStriker]

Oh, the member we love to hate.

Seriously, who cares what he says. It's the rest of the members that are becoming irritated with his attitude, while he's having a field day on this thread. He's loving it. :1eye:

I agree with what everyone else is saying, but do you guys really think you're going to "make" him play nice by telling him to calm down, be respectfull, etc.?

In the USA you know how many people say the stuff he says about the Dream Team. I've heard it for years now.

Imo, the USA can't go forever without winning a championship, and it seems like this is their year.

Some people love jogging, some baklava, some porn, and others love attention.

This guy is obviously addicted to the attention he gets from pissing people off. This is painfully obvious. If you ignore commenting on the aggressive part of his posts in your replies, the man will go through withdrawl. Don't let it bother you, and it will bother him (I don't care what he says, it will bother him). Just read what he says, and laugh at how immature a man can be. That's what I do. :P

Btw, I just commented on it, but it was necessary to get my point across. :D

[DUDE]

And according to all the published reports I've read about the game, Greece has finished in the 5th spot (which I posted about several posts earlier).

[DUDE]

Some people love jogging, some baklava, some porn, and others love attention.

And I can't believe you actually replied to "porn" quote :P

But I've got to say... Baklava with porn is quite a combo! :P

[PurelyAcademic]

Thank you, Genome. Couldn't have said it any better myself.

As for articles stating that we finished in 5th place, here's one of many I read:

http://www.sport.gr/default.asp?pid=4&aid=19776

[Kolokotronis]

Thank you, Genome. Couldn't have said it any better myself.

As for articles stating that we finished in 5th place, here's one of many I read:

http://www.sport.gr/default.asp?pid=4&aid=19776

Then all FOUR losing quarterfinalists finished in FIFTH place, since there is no fifth place game.

I believe there was a fifth place game in Athens, though.

[BlueStriker]

But I've got to say... Baklava with porn is quite a combo!  :P [/b][/color]

:LOL:

Yes, the siropi comes in quite handy. :whistle:

[PurelyAcademic]

You know something, Kolokotronis? You have NO RIGHT to imply that I am a racist or that I am an Anti-American, just because I disagree with your views on Team USA. You have no right to do that at all, no matter how you try to sugar-coat it or excuse it. I won't let you say those things about me, and I won't let you put words into my mouth. It is IMMENSELY IMMATURE of you to brand anyone that disagrees with you a racist or anti-American, instead of accepting their opinion at face value, even if you disagree. I don't care if "analyzing arguments" is what you do for a living...this is a discussion about sports, and your words and your actions all contribute towards creating discord in these forums.

You really need to grow up, stop acting like a big crybaby, and learn how to have an adult conversation without resorting to insults and name-calling.

As for the world powers of basketball, again, they are the USA, Argentina, Spain, Greece and Lithuania at the moment. 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 in whatever order they finish in this year. You can go on with your petty, stupid nonsense oohing and aahing over every aspect of Team USA, how it's Team USA and then a bunch of "5th place teams"...that all shows what an immature, childish outlook you have on sports as well. Honestly, I haven't seen this sort of arrogance and unadulterated hype even from the most ardent American fans or journalists.

You are entitled to your opinions, but you are not entitled to force your opinions upon anyone else, nor are you entitled to insult me, call me a racist, call me an Anti-American or any other insult that your mind can conjure up. And I am not going to take your BS or your insults. This is not a provocation, these are not insults, but I am sick and tired of your attitude. Perhaps it works out for you in your "day job" but not in what is supposed to be a civilized discussion about sports. You have a lot to learn in that regard.

Finally, Genone, yes, you are correct. There are no classification games of any kind...no 5th place game, no 7th place game, no 9th place game, etc. There were classification games in Athens and earlier Olympics (Greece won such games in 1996 and 2004, taking 5th place each time). I am not sure why they were removed in this year's Olympiad (for instance, Water Polo still has qualification games, the Greek men are currently playing for 7th-10th place), but that is the case.

However, in the official standings, Greece takes 5th place yet again for this Olympiad (as much as Kolokotronis refuses to believe it).

[drakos13]

kolokotroni - greece did take 5th officially....its a new system.

heres how according to wikipedia

5th-8th:

* Win-loss record in the preliminary round group

* Standings in the preliminary round group (i.e. Group A's #3 is ranked higher than Group B's #4.)

* Goal average in the preliminary round group

5th Greece 6 3 3 493 455 +38 B-3rd 1.117

6th Croatia 6 3 3 458 452 +6 A-3rd 1.050

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_at...Final_standings

[Nick99]

Kolokotroni, calm down. Don't take things so seriously, man. You said you'd play by Genome's rules and here you are doing your rants again. And you're wrong anyway.

Instead of discrediting PurelyAcademic, the items you're highlighting only prove his points. If the USA is doing well in this tournament it's because a) they learned to play fundamentally sound basketball at the international level and b ) they are no longer relying on talent alone. Hell, I bet you Purely is moonlighting as the USA coach. Purely is probably coach K and is playing us all for fools. lol

Also, Kobe: non-factor. The only guy on this team of NBA stars that's chucking right now is Kobe (I have to say the little I saw of the USA-Argentina game today: impressive; these guys are really passing the ball around). Lebron chucks too I guess, but at least he's draining everything he touches in this tournament, not just slams but mid-range shots and threes left and right.

Kobe has played one role well (and it's the easiest one to play, a defensive role at that): the third defender on a double-team who goes for the steal when the desperate cornered ball-carrier has to throw a floating pass to the nearest teammate over two pairs of long arms. But then every USA player has finally grasped this strategy of generating turnovers, instead of sitting idly back. Spain's key to success in the final will be to double-team the small US players like Kidd and Paul to create some turnovers like this.

Anyway, don't sit there and tell me the USA Olympic squad is playing the way a typical NBA team plays (besides the Spurs who I think move the ball around best in the NBA, and rely on very few one-on-one battles or straight drives to the net).

If USA wins gold, it will be by having executed the international game best in this tournament. And this, out of NECESSITY.

P.S. Signomi se olous tous Ellino-Amerikanous sto forum pou prosebala me ti lexi pou den tha epanalavw twra. Promise to do my part to keep things more civil.

[Kolokotronis]

Kobe is playing with ligament damage in his shooting hand.

To call one of the top two or three basketball players on the planet one of the most overrated of all time is a stretch, to say the least.

Secondly, the ONLY difference between this team and past teams, in terms of TEAM play, is that they have had TWO YEARS to PREPARE. Not 2-3 weeks like with ALL other teams in the past, including the '06 side. The US is the ONLY National Team I'm aware of that makes wholesale changes to their roster AND coaching staff EVERY tournament.

That changed ONLY the last two years with the advent of the Olympic basketball program and with Coach K returning from the WC team. And you all see the results.

How can 12 guys be expected to play as a TEAM, especially at this level, with only 3 weeks preparation? Some of these other Olympic teams have been together 6-7 years. How can you teach team defense, half court sets, man to man offense, full court press, three quarter court press, half court press, etc., etc., all in three weeks time? And then expect them to play as well as a unit as teams that have been together 6-7 years?

Also, they didn't just learn to play fundamental basketball. They knew how to all along. You don't magically acquire fundamentals at the pro level. They have to be there to begin with. You're confusing fundamentals with cohesion as a team. And you can't ahve that type of cohesion with only 3 weeks prep time, no matter how talented you are. That's more the fault of US Basketball than it is the players themselves.

Lastly, why would you expect THIS USNT to play like an NBA team in a FIBA tournament? And what's wrong with playing an NBA style game? If they were playing NBA rules, it would make all the sense in the world. They're playing a FIBA game. They can't use two and three man isolation plays like they do in the NBA, especially against the zones they see. And they can kick up the defenisve intenstity in a FIBA game because they're playing eight less minutes.

Not sure what the last "out of necessity" comment is about, but why don't you tell me how you think some of these FIBA teams would fare in an NBA style tourney? I get the funny feeling that some people here believe that FIBA style is the only way to play basketball, or at least the correct way.

[Genome]

***

Kolokotronis for someone who "dissects sentences for a living" I had hoped you would've understood the last few of my posts and that the following would have meant something:

That's fine. I'll respect your wishes and opinion. I have no problem with that. Your forum, your rules.

However, I can only ask so many times... now playing time is over. You defied an expressed wish from a mod twice (both Crazy's and me) and your posts remain unnecessarily confrontational/inflammatory.

Kolokotronis I've suspended you for a week.

I suggest we all take it easy from here on. I don't want any responses to the inflammatory posts anymore either, from anyone. The material (and tone) we wish to keep out of these forums has been split from this topic into a new one already anyway.

***

[loup]

re basketball

It is obvious that Big Sofo NEEDS to drop 30-100 lbs

If he did drop 100 and got in at about 250 he would be a starter in the NBA

No overhaul needed -- the team is still fairly young, some younger players must make a move

I dont watch Greek League that often are there any others we should expect to contribute in the future -- of course Koufos would be a huge asset, his game is made for the international game and he is HUGE

Koufos and a slimmed down Sofo, with Fotsis, Barouzis and Tsartsaris would make our front court as good as our backcourt

---

I hope and expect to see Spain get beaten up in the final, and Lithuania will win the bronze IMO

[drakos13]

re basketball

It is obvious that Big Sofo NEEDS to drop 30-100 lbs

If he did drop 100 and got in at about 250 he would be a starter in the NBA

absolutely not man....Sofo without his massive power and size, is more or less useless on the baskebtall court. Hed still be big, but hes short, has absolutley no vertical, poor shooting. The guy never developed, thats just how it was. Hes past his prime, theres no going back to his old fitness (which also wasnt great) in a single year.

He cannot shoot (lay ups and dunks are all he gets, and he misses enough as it is)

He is the worst free throw shooter in the Olympic Games - his power and size are there to win fouls too - if you cant finish the throws, whats the point? he cant rebound either.

hes just our least skilled player, period. people made a big deal of him but they need to understand its over. the guys completley replacable, hes not at all crucial to this ethniki.

[drakos13]

re basketball

It is obvious that Big Sofo NEEDS to drop 30-100 lbs

If he did drop 100 and got in at about 250 he would be a starter in the NBA

No overhaul needed -- the team is still fairly young, some younger players must make a move

I dont watch Greek League that often are there any others we should expect to contribute in the future -- of course Koufos would be a huge asset, his game is made for the international game and he is HUGE

Koufos and a slimmed down Sofo, with Fotsis, Barouzis and Tsartsaris would make our front court as good as our backcourt

---

I hope and expect to see Spain get beaten up in the final, and Lithuania will win the bronze IMO

(srry for double post)

yeah theres there is more talent coming up for Greece...

for one oour u18 won the European championships this summer, after going to the final last year...

some players that i expect to be on the team in future tournaments-

Stratos Perperoglou (PAO) - was dropped in favour of Pelekanos and i just cant agree with it. Hes like another Xatzivrettas, younger, quick, steals and a strong 3 point shooter. Been a fan of him since Panionios days, so yes i have a bit of bias, ;) but objectivley I know hes got potential to be on this team.

Nick Kalathis (Maroussi) - just moved to Greece from NCAA, hes young and supposed to be alright - i have no idea about him though watch for him ----- he has a younger brother Pat, who plays for Florida State and he's a prospect for us too.

Zisis Sarikopoulos (Ohio State) - 18 year old whos pretty big player, center, was a star in u18. years to come before he matures, but hell be there one day. played #2 to Koufos last years U18, and is following in his footsteps so far at Ohio State. He wont be able to play in the torunament till next season though for eligibility :tdown:

also younger "cuts" from the senior team were

Xanthopoulos & Kalambokis (Panionios)

Ian Vougioukas (OSFP?)

and printezis will feature more

[plato-ny]

I think the Greek NT's biggest problem, even during their Eurobasket 2005 gold and 2006 FIBA Wc Silver medals, is they dont have a go-to guy, a player that can make a difference in certain moments or in certain games altogether. That particular kind of player wont make a difference every time, but he will alot of the time, especially if his team's lead is slipping or if his team is behind.

Greece has not had that kind of player since Nikos Galis. Argentina have Ginobili and Spain have Gasol. Lithuania dont have that kind of player either and that is why they have been one step away from the final in the last 2 tournaments they've been in instead of being in the final or wiinning the gold.

Papaloukas and Diamantids have won individual awards in Europe and have been very good but neither player is a difference maker on a regular basis. This Greek team has a solid starting five and a more deeper team than, I feel, the Galis-era NT but this Greek team lacks the star power of not only a player like Galis, but players like Giannakis and Fasoulas, who were also difference makers from time to time and who complemeted Galis well. Players like Diamantids and Papaloukas can complemet a star player well but that kind of player is the biggest missing piece of the puzzle.

[loup]

Drakos thanks for the update

Kalithes from FLA is a very good prospect, I have not seen his brother player

re Sofo, i agree that his size his biggest asset, but he has gotten to be grossly out of shape, he has relatively quick feet, and decent hand and I think playing closer to 300 instead of 400lbs would allow him to contribute

[drakos13]

dude....giannakis was not a "difference maker"

the generation of these players now, is actually much better than Fassoulas and Giannakis. Just because theyre old and put in gold image dont really make them better. Giannakis was overrated...He made his own stupid mistakes, bricking shots, couldnt hit a free throw... And clearly, he doesnt care when his own players do the same <_<

Fassoulas was a good player, but its not like Greece have not been able to recover from his departure by any means. Galis is another story. Greece dont have the standout player on the NBA level, but they do have strong team chemistry which is more important than anything. That is what pulled us from behind and did get our successes afterall... Spanoulis is turning out to be that player, but he had a terrible game with Argentina- it happens. Saras didnt have a great one vs Spain and he was huge for Lithuania in their run this year....

Well get players in the NBA....Its got to happen eventually, I mean even Iran, Turkey, and small eastern european countries are getting players in. Greeks will have their player too eventually. We have one of the top leagues in Europe, IMO with Russia and Spain. I think even theres a great chance, both PAO and OSFP will go to the final 4 this year.

Papaloukas is done.....hes past his prime. People seem to forgetting that he was terrible in the Euro 07 too.

Diamantidis didnt have an amazing tournament. He didnt have a horrible one though. Diamantidis is still very much important in all the successes we have had and the team really needs him.

Anyways, watch out for Greek teams in Europe this season IMO.

OSFP, PAO are fully capable of making the Final 4 and even the Euroleague final. Panionios, have a tough draw, but they can make it out of the groups and who knows what next...We need to get a strong Aris again, and make this league more competitive......I will make a topic on Greek teams in europe B)

[drakos13]

Drakos thanks for the update

Kalithes from FLA is a very good prospect, I have not seen his brother player

time to check out the maroussi games in europe this year then :tup:

hopefuly, this forum and interest with the ethniki basket brings more interest down to the basketball end of the forums which was kind of barren before...