Clover22 Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 He was absolutely great up to a point; beyond 2004, he kept insisting on the same tactics/players. The 2004 team was well organized and great but what was our weakness? Creative attack, which he didn't address during the 2006 qualifiers. I would have kept him for that qualifying tournament, I can't argue with that after 2004! But beyond that, no. He's just not a progressive coach. His comments about this "miracle" at the last Euro is absurd. We didn't win based on a miracle or luck; it was hard work like anything else, and the players were focused and in top form. This is a TEAM SPORT, its not about a bunch of egos on the field or Beckhams house in Beverly Hills. "Nobody expected us to win again bla bla bla" if you don't believe in your players, then you shouldn't be coaching the team! The very first thing a coach needs to do is organize the team so they have communication on field (almost a "sixth sense") but he failed to do that. Do you guys want to see this team go to the WC and embarass everyone? Its time to say thank you for your time and move on. I care about the NT enough to influence what happens before september. What can we do and who can we get? Your thoughts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 but who can replace him, that wont make the team worse and bring it back to its old days of struggling to qualify? I don think we should fire the guy. He got us to 2 Euros and a Cup, clearly the formula overall is good. If we can get to the WC it will be another success for him and us. Its a very easy group but even as it is easy, it is difficult. For teams like Israel, Latvia this will be one of the greatest chances theyve ever had for a WC and will fight quite hard for it. And if were no finishing chances, then theyre right in these games. Israel especially, has some very good performances and good players recently. What happened in the Euro was not great, and his resiliance to drop obvious underperformers and older players has been a problem. Its partly Rehagel's fault, but Im also extremley disapointed in Dellas, Giannakopoulos, Lybe, Gkoumas and all the older players who should know their time on the team is finished, for not stepping down. Theres no reason to ever see these players on the team, even as backups, our backups should at least be young prospects. The retirement of Nikopolidis and Antzas are a very good start. Hes going to have to move on in 2 years, but then seriously, we should not resign him unless he showed dramatic changes in qualifying and built a brand new team that thrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangas21 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 i hope thus euro is simply a case of one step back ward, two steps forward.... greece and in particular, its fans, got a cold hard dose of reality this time around.....when in its history was greece ever expected to do anythng in any tournament, let alone enter as defending champs.... the irony is otto has 50 years of soccer expereince and, yet we come away from this tournament saying "i hope otto learned something"......he was totally outcoached in the sweden game.....having said all that, the players respect him...and a new coach will have to form his trust and rapport all over again....we dont have time for that.....we need continuity given the close proximity of the WC qualifiers andm the first four or five games a gimmies, so sacking him would be counter productive....but he needs to figure out a way to open up the offense a little more..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mercury Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Otto has to go.Put Zagorakis as coach.Anyone is better then Otto.Since 2005 he has been a shmuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAO_OR_DEATH Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 i fully agree zagorakis should have a MAJOR role in the coaching staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_g Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Gagatsis, has created a position for a new player manager within the team. He was told Zagorakis would take it, but Otto said he would only accept Fyssas for that role. This is according to ekathimerini. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Zagorakis??? Theres no way I would want Zagorakis as a coach. Hes already got a job as President of PAOK More importatntly putting Zagorakis as coach wont solve or do anything, hed be fired mid qualifying. Good player does not at all translate into good coach. He has had no coaching education, experience.......being a great player dont mean your a coach and thats that, otherwise why isnt Saravakos coaching? IMO Greece's top "coaching talent" are Giorgos Donis (taken AEL back into top flight, did pretty well with them getting a cup, decent UEFA run, all from a team that was at rock bottom in G ethniki a few years ago. Nikos Nioplias who has worked with youth and gone to big coaching schools aslo a good prospect IMO. But wed be best off with another foreigner, Id prefer a Dutchman or a German. Hiddink would be worth a shot, but would be so difficult to get...but who knows maybe hell be available in 2 years. Hiddink is probably the top of everybody's wishlist though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodoj Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 I've gone back and forth on this. I like the discipline that he had instilled in the team but I think that the formula no longer works. Today's game is built on speed and power and we have neither. He's also too stubborn to accept change that he did not think of first and it may end up that he will be pushed out the door if we get off on the wrong foot. As for a player-coach link, it would be great if it was a 'teacher' type rather than a player's best friend. With so much youth ready to explode onto the scene (if Otto would yield on this) we need someone who will coach the youngsters rather than let them develop bad habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aekrossoponti Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 with antzas gone, an aging dellas far from imposing and may not be a key ingredient in w.c. 2010 and goumas (as predicted) not even considered for 1 lousy minute - papastathopoulos should be an automatic. wait a second, file!apparently there are moves being made to get antzas out of his ethniki retirement. http://www.sport-fm.gr/article/135972 whether this will actually happen is doubtful, but the mere though is horrifying and may say alot about the ethniki. 1 step forward, 23000 backwards. it may be media garbage though. lets hope it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEK-MTL Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 I also disagree with Otto leaving at this point. The fact that he has given caps to guys like Makos, Ninis, and Papastathopoulos indicates that they are at the very least on his radar. That being said, I still think we'll be seeing Basinas and Katsouranis come September. At the end of the day, unless EPO has a good replacement lined up, we need to keep Otto. I firmly believe that he will guide the team to WC2010, if for nothing else than the fact that our group is so easy. Who knows what can happen in 2 years? Somehow, I seriously doubt we'll still be seeing the same 3-man midfield at the WC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheLegend Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Rehagel does not belive in his players. If a coach does not believe his players can win he should not be coaching them. A miracle only happens every 30 years. If that wasn't the case then there wouldn't be any miracles. Rehhagel after the holders bowed out early Rehhagel I have news for you... IMPOSSIBLE IS JUST A BIG WORD THROWN AROUND BY SMALL MEN WHO FIND IT EASIER TO LIVE IN THE WORLD THEY’VE BEEN GIVEN THAN TO EXPLORE THE POWER THEY HAVE TO CHANGE IT. IMPOSSIBLE IS NOT A FACT. IT’S AN OPINION. IMPOSSIBLE IS NOT A DECLERATION. IT’S A DARE. IMPOSSIBLE IS POTENTIAL. IMPOSSIBLE IS TEMPORARY IMPOSSIBLE IS NOTHING It was not impossible and it would not have been a miracle to defend the title. But when he went into the tournament believing it was impossible it was over. We need a coach who believes in his players. If Zagorakis , a Leicester player, was able to take home MVP of Euro 2004 what stops a team from DEFENDING its title. We could have beaten every team in this tournament if we played right and had the belief but unfortunately there was no belief starting with the coach. If he can turn around rebuild a team rebuild its tactics and play attractive go ahead and keep him but if we go through qualifying in the WC playing 5-3-2 against mediocre teams its time to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Rehhagel I have news for you... IMPOSSIBLE IS JUST A BIG WORD THROWN AROUND BY SMALL MEN WHO FIND IT EASIER TO LIVE IN THE WORLD THEY’VE BEEN GIVEN THAN TO EXPLORE THE POWER THEY HAVE TO CHANGE IT. Very wise words :) ! Wasn't that from an Adidas ad? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 but who can replace him, that wont make the team worse and bring it back to its old days of struggling to qualify? I don think we should fire the guy. He got us to 2 Euros and a Cup, clearly the formula overall is good. If we can get to the WC it will be another success for him and us. Its a very easy group but even as it is easy, it is difficult. For teams like Israel, Latvia this will be one of the greatest chances theyve ever had for a WC and will fight quite hard for it. And if were no finishing chances, then theyre right in these games. Israel especially, has some very good performances and good players recently. What happened in the Euro was not great, and his resiliance to drop obvious underperformers and older players has been a problem. Its partly Rehagel's fault, but Im also extremley disapointed in Dellas, Giannakopoulos, Lybe, Gkoumas and all the older players who should know their time on the team is finished, for not stepping down. Theres no reason to ever see these players on the team, even as backups, our backups should at least be young prospects. The retirement of Nikopolidis and Antzas are a very good start. Hes going to have to move on in 2 years, but then seriously, we should not resign him unless he showed dramatic changes in qualifying and built a brand new team that thrived. I dont agree with you at many subjects but this time i have to. :P Everybody is blaming Otto and not with no reason but the older experient players did not perform and were unable to even get close to what they did 4 years ago.Greece now has a new chalenge and we are lucky enough to have some new talented players that can play and in some time lead or NT in more succes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 It is players that win games. It is coaches that loose them. Always. When a player performs under par, the good coach replaces him. And it is him (the coach) who decides on which players comprise a team. There is absolutely no excuse for sticking with players that do not bring with them their "A" game. Rehhagel should had left a long time ago -- I think it was two years ago, maybe three, I started calling for his head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheLegend Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Rehhagel I have news for you... IMPOSSIBLE IS JUST A BIG WORD THROWN AROUND BY SMALL MEN WHO FIND IT EASIER TO LIVE IN THE WORLD THEY’VE BEEN GIVEN THAN TO EXPLORE THE POWER THEY HAVE TO CHANGE IT. Very wise words :) ! Wasn't that from an Adidas ad? :D yea that ad was crazy hot im gona like buy a shirt with that on it lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 our secret combination- dedicated to the Euro 2008 :LOL: actuallly a well made song, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 :LOL: :LOL: Good one! Thanks for sharing... :LOL: :LOL: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Endopalamikoi Palindromistes ... :D (group name) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted July 1, 2008 Author Share Posted July 1, 2008 Good posts Lazarus and Legend. Thats why its crucial we get a new coach before the end of the summer. I mean, come on, I want to see a team advance to the WC with the potential to win, not some crappy side that would disgrace themselves (1994 anyone?). How much more time and how many more examples do you need from Otto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheLegend Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 even if u know u cant win (which any team can win any tournament).. you dont teach your team and put their confidence down and then s%$#! on them when they dont play good. Things need to change... FAST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheLegend Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Zagorakis??? Theres no way I would want Zagorakis as a coach. Hes already got a job as President of PAOK More importatntly putting Zagorakis as coach wont solve or do anything, hed be fired mid qualifying. Good player does not at all translate into good coach. He has had no coaching education, experience.......being a great player dont mean your a coach and thats that, otherwise why isnt Saravakos coaching? IMO Greece's top "coaching talent" are Giorgos Donis (taken AEL back into top flight, did pretty well with them getting a cup, decent UEFA run, all from a team that was at rock bottom in G ethniki a few years ago. Nikos Nioplias who has worked with youth and gone to big coaching schools aslo a good prospect IMO. But wed be best off with another foreigner, Id prefer a Dutchman or a German. Hiddink would be worth a shot, but would be so difficult to get...but who knows maybe hell be available in 2 years. Hiddink is probably the top of everybody's wishlist though. I dont think zagorakis is really necesary on the actualy coaching but more of a person who can build team chemistry. He more than any greek player knows what its like to play for the shirt. The fact that he elevated his game so much in 2004 just to make his country proud is something he needs to teach other players and rehagel. Another downside to having a foreign coach is that they dont give a crap about the country but just about winning and them lookin good. Rehagel gave up thinking that this team can win so now he just doesnt care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geok Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 geok, are these your comments or there is another source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geok Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 geok, are these your comments or there is another source?Lazarus, these are 100% my comments. Whenever I put some else's comments I always put the name of the author or a link or some indication. Never have I or will I plagiarize anyone's opinion. I always keep within the regulations of the furum.Now if you imply that the standard of my writing is similar to that of professional sports casters (whose writings I have cited in a few occasions in this forum, but I will not do so again because I was informed that this is not allowed) I thank you for this complement. Actually it took me some time to write in Greek...but I think they are more funny this way :) Also, I have written to a friend in the admin group stating that I would like to remove or change those postings where I cited full articles, but the system does not enable me to do so, i.e. to edit postings that were written in the past (this is only possible if I amend within a few minutes, using the edit button, which after some time is no longer available), so please, if you can, enable the users to do so. Thank you (and all the other admins and moderators) for your great work at phantis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geok Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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