Peseiro

[adonis]

i would like to know ppl's opinion of him so far and how he has faired, given our performance in the derby, our qualification from the UEFA Cup and the upcoming draw against Rangers,

do we think we have someone where we can finally establish stability?

i think thus far i have noticed that no one has brough the sack the coach comment yet so that can be a good thing i guess

:whistle:

[cyberfish]

i would like to know ppl's opinion of him so far and how he has faired, given our performance in the derby, our qualification from the UEFA Cup and the upcoming draw against Rangers,

do we think we have someone where we can finally establish stability?

i think thus far i have noticed that no one has brough the sack the coach comment yet so that can be a good thing i guess

:whistle:

Adoni,

I think we are numb from the last 10 years of coaching changes. We all loved Munoz last year and towards the end we felt a bit betrayed.

It's unfair to Peseiro to be so reserved in our expression of affection even though he has done a fantastic job putting some order in a team that had no direction.

I read criticism that he does not give a chance to talented payers but it's not true. Dimoutsos is 20. He started the year as a starter until he began looking like a "baby Karagounis" holding the ball until I scream at the television. Simao is 20 and got his chance. I really don't care who plays unless we play well and win.

A coach must be judged on several levels. I am not going to analyze each point, but think how Peseiro has done in these levels compared with past years:

How is the team prepared for the season

How is the team prepared for each game

How does the coach adjust his tactics during the game

Someone said in another threat that he managed to create better defense while the team plays more offensively. The team looks like they work in practice and I see combination plays on the pitch that don't happen by accident. Take a look at this goal against Aris. http://panathinaikosfan.blogspot.com/2007/...s-0-1-game.html Wath several times and look at the way the players move (watch Romero's movement). This is defiently a combination that has been practiced over and over they don't just make it up on the pitch.

Also, I am thinking about the performance of individual players we all thought were not good. Romero, Vintra, Nilsson, (to name a few) seem to be re-born this year. No matter who starts, the team does not get affected.

Personally I liked every coach we've had (with the exception of Markarian - I did not like the kind of football we were playing) in the last 10 years and I really like what Peseiro has managed this year. Will it last? Time will tell. I like what I see, and I am seeing this year as a transition period. If we manage to win a title, so much the better. Unless we go through a meltdown at the end like we did last year (and I am certain that was bad offseason work - not Munoz doing) Peseiro should get the opportunity to work the team for a couple of seasons.

I finally enjoy watching our team play.

[NYPAO13]

well at the moment hes not getting fired

[adonis]

cyber for a large part i agree with you, i thought it was rather unfortunate we did not stick with munoz at the end of the season but it seemed to me that he lost confidence within the squad esp after the olympiako win in karaiskaki...the terrible run of defeats we suffered after that was pretty hard to explain and certain players who werent getting enough playing time were actually happy the team wasnt doing well

but this is all speculation

i think peseiro has done a great job thus far...my only problem is why ninis is not given a chance yet - perhaps in due course we will see ninis contribute alot in this half of the season - and considering hes hardly played we could consider him like a new signing :)

the only problem i have ... however i have this with all the pao sqauds and coaches of each year... is we seem to be very poor in our set piece tactics...i think we have always lacked imagination and creativity in this area...

this season we are one game into the second round of home and away games for the superleague... and we are two points off the top and we have the best defensive record thus far

can someone confirm if previous seasons (and which ones with who in charge) we were usually still this close to the top of table at around this point of the season

[Tsoglani]

Peseiro is indeed doing a great JOB for PAO.

There are surely though some parts where he can improve himself.

Such an action like at the Derby last Sunday isnt rational. Your teams plays great footbal>>> Fine with that.

you decide to do almost no changes for some reasons>>>>>>>>>>fine with that too.

when you make a change just to do at least one without any reason (PAP in for Salpi)>>>>>>>>>>Mann this was real s%$#!.

Salpi played a Hell of a game and PAP not only for the penalty wasnt even in the game.

Had he let Salpi in we definitely had scored one more. Besides from the system Peseiro used Salpi couldnt have been able till that moment of his change to score since he was more on the wings than playing as a forward. He more gave assists than got any.

As for Ninis i somewhere read that Ninis not playing could be cause (Rumouralert) he doesnt acaipt a new contract which he is beeing offered.

[athinaios]

There are many factors that contribute to a coach's success in a particular team. That's why you see the same coach doing great with one team and blow with the next. They don't suddenly forget everything they know, right?

It has to do with the internal culture of the club, the players available (and healthy) and a bit of luck. Often success with dismal failure are separated by a thin line. Case in point the derby agains gavroi... (We could have won 1-5 or lost by 2). And often events have a momentum of their own that makes it very hard to turn around.

For example, had we beaten gavroi 1-5, I think that would have been the end of their season. I'm serious. The forces such a defeat would have unleashed....

Pesseiro should be given an extension to his contract NOW. He's shown he can handle it and build a great team.

My regrets to Munoz, whom I liked as a coach and as a person. He should have come to PAO before Scum and Scazni!

PS. Even at times I rise and give a "high five" [mmm,

[NikosVazelas]

PESEIRO HAS TAKEN A TEAM FROM THE SHITS LAST YEAR AND WITH MATOS AND KARAGOUNIS AND THE SAME OTHER 15 PLAYERS HAS MADE THEM PLAY GOOD FOOTBALL AND ACTUALLY DOMINATE OLY IN THEIR OWN BACKYARD. UNLIKE LAST YEAR WHERE WE WON BUT COULD OF LOST BY 3. THE SAME PLAYERS WHICH WERE CONSIDERED BUMS LAST YEAR, BY YOURSELF AS WELL ATHINAIOS, HAVE BEEN TRANBSFORMED INTO THE BEST DEFENCE IN THE LEAGUE AND GREAT PLAY IN EUROPE. IT TAKES TIME BUT IN PORTIGAL FROM WHAT I READ PESEIRO PLAYED THE SAME COUNTER ATTACKING GAME AND IT BROUGHT HIM TO THE FINALS OF THE UEFA CUP.

HOWEVER IN PORTUGAL, TEAMS DONT SIT BACK WITH 11 ON D AGAINST TEAMS LIEK SPORTING AS OFTEN AS THEY DO AGAINST PAO.

I BELIEVE HE HAS SEEN THIS AND ASKED FOR A PLAYER LIKE POSTIGA SO HE CAN PLAY A 4-3-3 AGAINST THESE LITTLE TEAMS.

ITS NOT EVEN ENOUGH TO MENTION THAT WITH THE PENALTY AGAINST XANTHI AND TRIPOLI THAT WERENT CALLED, WE WOULD HAVE 3 POINTS MORE AND IN FIRST PLACE AND NO ONE WOULD BE TALKIN ABOUT PAO PLAYS BAD AGAINST LITTLE TEAMS.

HOW BAD DO WE PLAY AGAINST LITTLE TEAMS.

VERIA-PAO 0-2

LEVADIA-PAO 0-4

PAO- ATROMITOS 2-0

ERGOTELIS-PAO 0-3

ETHNIKOS AST-PAO 1-3 WITH 10 PLAYERS FROM 45TH MINUTE.

PAO-OFI 3-1

LARISA-PANIONIO ARE NOT LITTLE TEAMS

XANTHI ARE LUCKY TO NOT HAVE DRAWN A PENALTY IN THE 6TH MINUTE WHICH WOULD OF PROBABLY ENDED UP BEING A 3 OR 4 -0 GAME.

BUT WHAT I DONT UNDERSTAND IS THAT OLY BEAT XANTHI 2-1 WITH AN OFFSIDE GOAL. THEY ALSO BEAT KALAMARIA 1-0 AND THEY BEAT VERIA 1-0 IN KARAISKAKI IN WHAT SHOULD OF BEEN A 1-2 OR 1-3 GAME. BUT OLY IS DEEMED AS THIS GREAT TEAM BECAUSE THEY BEAT A HORRIBLE ITALIAN TEAM AND WERE LUCKY NOT TO CONCEED AGAISNT REAL IN KARAISKAKI. NOT TO MENTION THAT IF NOT FOR THE BRILLIANCE OF NIKOPOLIDIS,IT COULD OF BEEN TOTALLY DIFFERENT AGAINST WERDER BREMEN.

PROPAGANDA

[athinaios]

calm down gent. no need to scream [and all CAPS is screaming]

we hear you :rolleyes:

[NikosVazelas]

SCREAMING? IM TYPING. BESIDES MY CAPS BUTTON IS STUCK SINCE YESTERDAY AND I HAVE TO HOLD SHIFT FOR EVERY LETTER IF ITS TO NOT BE IN CAPS. AND I WOULD ONLY DO THAT IN A PRIVATE MESSAGE. NOT IN A 400 WORD RANT. IM NOT PISSED. I JUST HATE OLY AND THEIR PROPAGANDA

[cyberfish]

I agree that Peseiro is not as good with tactical changes (ie, substitutions) as I would have liked, but overall he does a better job than many, although the fans seem to focus on the ONE bad move among many good ones.

Let's take the game against Olympiakos that's recent.

Peseiro by all admisions:

- fielded the right team

- had the team ready to play mentally and physically

- fielded the right formation

- had the team look "fresh"

- overcame the absence of our two best players to date

- with his overall planning he put the team in a position to win

- made the necessary adjustments during the game to improve performance (not many noticed the switch between Kara and Ivan that was a great move. Greeks only see the negative)

- send the opposing coach to extensive tape study to find out what happened (:LOL: priceless)

- made one substitution to (IMO) keep the forward line fresh (Salpi had done a lot of running)

It's not Peseiro's fault that his team's co-captain missed the penalty. It's not his fault that Malartz did not clear the ball in the Olympiakos goal. It's not his fault that N'doye missed two shots he should have made with one leg tied behind his back.

If you ask me, a fresh forward was an excellent idea around the time he made the change. Having a slight advantage over the battered defenders is a move many coaches make around the world. Papadopoulos is the easy target, but I have respect for what he has done for Pao in many-many games. I am not ready to write him off. He does seem to be in bad form lately and that's why he lost his starting position. Peseiro will do our team a favor by not chastizing but by supporting his players when they need it most. He seems to be doing just that.

Making substitutions during a game is such as small part of a coache's job. Sure it can make or break a game, but against Olympiakos nothing says that N'doye whould have been released all alone agaisnt Nikopolidis if Salpigidis was in the game (Papadopoulos had an excellent run diagonally that pulled three Olympiakos defenders...)

About Munoz. We never talked about it, but I think he lost the locker room late in the season. A coach with an uncertain future is a lame duck. Players with an axe to grind don't have reason to respect a coach if they suspect that upper management might not support him.

Renewing Peseiro's contract now would send a message to anyone in the team that their chances of undermining him are slim. It's true in every job.

[athinaios]

I agree with Cyber (as usually) but with 2 exceptions:

1. subs are very important, and the ability to know when and whom to sub can turn a game around.

2. of course, it's Pesseiro's fault Pap missed the penalty. :LOL: Pap . I'm saying this because I assume (don't know) that the coach decides who takes the shot, or has 2-3 players that have really practiced and are really good. Ivan might've been a better choice

PS>

MY CAPS BUTTON IS STUCK...

Man, stick a toothpick there, or better yet, DUCT TAPE--the solution to many fixins :LOL:

[cyberfish]

Peseiro admitted that there is an order to who takes the penalty kicks. Pap is first if he plays, second is Salpi and he did not say who the rest are.

I agree with what Adonis (I think it was him) said about the team needs to work more on the set pieces, and that should include penalty kicks.

[cyberfish]

SCREAMING? IM TYPING. BESIDES MY CAPS BUTTON IS STUCK SINCE YESTERDAY AND I HAVE TO HOLD SHIFT FOR EVERY LETTER IF ITS TO NOT BE IN CAPS. AND I WOULD ONLY DO THAT IN A PRIVATE MESSAGE. NOT IN A 400 WORD RANT. IM NOT PISSED. I JUST HATE OLY AND THEIR PROPAGANDA

Man, buy yourself a new keyboard. They are cheap now days. MAS XEKOUFANES :LOL:

[Genome]

So what do you guys think after the 4-0 defeat to OSFP, what's going to happen to him?

[drakos13]

the scoreline wasnt fair to Peseiro.

Some questions:

I tended to prefer Galinovic, but now I realise I was horridly wrong - why after last match did Peseiro decide on Galinovic? I notice the defense played a lot worse with Galinovic in goal too, could this be Mario's inability to communicate and keep them organized?

Papadopoulos was never going to help the team. Didnt play so bad today, but theres no point playing him.

Peseiro is going to have to suck it up, and let Sotiris Ninis get time on the field to eventually move him to a regular. With Ivan on the left and Sotiraki on the right, well be the best attacking wings in Greece. Peseiro needs to wake the F*** up on this, Ninis should be ready for these matches and its HIS responsibilty to get him to that level of readiness.

We should have come out and played the same lineup as last time. It was stupid, very stupid to change it. IF ITS NOT BROKE, DONT FIX IT.

I dont see him being sacked, I dont think he deserves it, but I would like to thank our great management for the BEST CENTENNIAL EVER!!!!!!!!!!

4-0 to @@@@??? and OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH a young washedup Portuguese player who scored a goal vs England once! On Loan!!!

[NYPAO13]

well at the moment hes not getting fired

oooooooops maybe i spoke too soon???

[Tsoglani]

Surely we had yesterday a great loss against the "akatanomastous" and surely the most weight of fault falls on Peseiro's decisions. But i dont think that he will get fired first of all. Peseiro is doing mostly a good job with the material he got. But i think he wont be able to Help PAO get the championship at least this year.

Bring back Markarian. Every time he was our coach we played good football and had mostly good results.

[slick13]

well at the moment hes not getting fired

what about this moment?

[cyberfish]

nope :)

[MadBoy13]

Surely we had yesterday a great loss against the "akatanomastous" and surely the most weight of fault falls on Peseiro's decisions. But i dont think that he will get fired first of all. Peseiro is doing mostly a good job with the material he got. But i think he wont be able to Help PAO get the championship at least this year.

Bring back Markarian. Every time he was our coach we played good football and had mostly good results.

tsoglani file mou, m ton markarian sarese tin mpala pou epeze o panathinaikos???

emena prosopika maresei o peseiro.. deixnei oti kanei kali douleia stin omada alla kai lathoi.. pou oloi kanoun.. apla isos na ta ekane se lathos agona kai se lathos stigmi pou mas stoixise mia oraia ksegirismeni 4ara. Apla an eixa ton peseiro apenanti mou ena tha ton rotousa... pou einai o ninis kai giati den paizei.. auto me troei kai den katalaveno!

pantos gia mena proponitara itan o Schum kai o Kirastas!!!! tote epeze mpala i panatha.. eidika me ton kirasta!!!!!!!!!

[Tsoglani]

Surely we had yesterday a great loss against the "akatanomastous" and surely the most weight of fault falls on Peseiro's decisions. But i dont think that he will get fired first of all. Peseiro is doing mostly a good job with the material he got. But i think he wont be able to Help PAO get the championship at least this year.

Bring back Markarian. Every time he was our coach we played good football and had mostly good results.

tsoglani file mou, m ton markarian sarese tin mpala pou epeze o panathinaikos???

emena prosopika maresei o peseiro.. deixnei oti kanei kali douleia stin omada alla kai lathoi.. pou oloi kanoun.. apla isos na ta ekane se lathos agona kai se lathos stigmi pou mas stoixise mia oraia ksegirismeni 4ara. Apla an eixa ton peseiro apenanti mou ena tha ton rotousa... pou einai o ninis kai giati den paizei.. auto me troei kai den katalaveno!

pantos gia mena proponitara itan o Schum kai o Kirastas!!!! tote epeze mpala i panatha.. eidika me ton kirasta!!!!!!!!!

Den eipa oti den maresi se genikes grames o Peseiro. Alla anapolo tis palies kales stigmes pou analamvane en meso tis sezon o Markarian kai ksafnika i omada eferne apotelesmata. Kai na sou po kati Kalitera 10 xronia tsoukou tsoukou ball kai 10 Titlous para gamati balla (pou fetos eida isos apo ton PAO sinolo kai meta vias 6 Games na paizei gamata) kai enan Titlo se deka xronia.

Simfono mazi sou gia Kyrasta diafono gia Schum. O Schum eixe analavei mia poli kali omada tin opoia estise me polli douleia o Kyrastas. Otan ksepoulithike afti i omada oute me Schum den tha kaname tipota to akseiosimioto. Paradigma oti epi Schum oi paiktarades mas den traviksan katholou sta International games.

[MadBoy13]

Surely we had yesterday a great loss against the "akatanomastous" and surely the most weight of fault falls on Peseiro's decisions. But i dont think that he will get fired first of all. Peseiro is doing mostly a good job with the material he got. But i think he wont be able to Help PAO get the championship at least this year.

Bring back Markarian. Every time he was our coach we played good football and had mostly good results.

tsoglani file mou, m ton markarian sarese tin mpala pou epeze o panathinaikos???

emena prosopika maresei o peseiro.. deixnei oti kanei kali douleia stin omada alla kai lathoi.. pou oloi kanoun.. apla isos na ta ekane se lathos agona kai se lathos stigmi pou mas stoixise mia oraia ksegirismeni 4ara. Apla an eixa ton peseiro apenanti mou ena tha ton rotousa... pou einai o ninis kai giati den paizei.. auto me troei kai den katalaveno!

pantos gia mena proponitara itan o Schum kai o Kirastas!!!! tote epeze mpala i panatha.. eidika me ton kirasta!!!!!!!!!

Den eipa oti den maresi se genikes grames o Peseiro. Alla anapolo tis palies kales stigmes pou analamvane en meso tis sezon o Markarian kai ksafnika i omada eferne apotelesmata. Kai na sou po kati Kalitera 10 xronia tsoukou tsoukou ball kai 10 Titlous para gamati balla (pou fetos eida isos apo ton PAO sinolo kai meta vias 6 Games na paizei gamata) kai enan Titlo se deka xronia.

Simfono mazi sou gia Kyrasta diafono gia Schum. O Schum eixe analavei mia poli kali omada tin opoia estise me polli douleia o Kyrastas. Otan ksepoulithike afti i omada oute me Schum den tha kaname tipota to akseiosimioto. Paradigma oti epi Schum oi paiktarades mas den traviksan katholou sta International games.

nai stin europi eixe provlima o Schum alla pisteuo oti den eixe KAI tous paixtes alla parola auta peirame double.. riksame kai 3ara ston gauro!

[cyberfish]

I think there is an entire generation of fans that have seen moderate success only with Markarian (only I don't remember if he ever won anything for us). For some of us who remember all the waaaaaaaayyyyyy back (can you say Kasmir Gorsky :whistle: ) In the last 10 years only with the first Kyrastas team we could be proud. And please allow me to remind you that when he was hired everyone (I really mean everyone) beached why we had not hired some big shot from Europe, and that the Vs were trying to save money.

The picture and expectations I have from Panathinaikos are way beyond what we have seen in the last fifteen years. Many of my friends don't ever look at Greek football any more. That's how bad it has been. Life-time supporters got disgusted to the point of abandonment. Sometimes pain makes love grow. That's what I think during this extensive drout. I have seen these long cycles come and go. Not many today remember the Olympiakos "petrina xronia" I lived through them and it was fun :) but it's not fun any more.

This is the first year I have seen the team play decent football, and play without fear. Yesterday I take (besides the number 4) the fact that the team kept pushing forward all the way till the end (mind you not very effectively). I can take the "kazo" for a "tessara", but I don't like the irony of the "tsoukou-tsoukou" ball.

If anyone deserves to stay two years with the team, this is Peseiro. We'll see how he reacts to failur, and we'll see if he learns from his mistakes. I don't want to go back to the 5 defenders, three DM's and let's lob the ball to the tall guy up front to create a fracas so we can win 1-0 in the last minutes.

No sir, I want to see football. The coach is one part of it and what I've seen so far Peseiro has what it takes. It's not unusual for newly formed teams (with new style that is) with young players to have wild performance swings. Sunday we rule, Wednesday we slump. It takes a couple of years to stabilize, but you can't do it by changing coaches and players all the time. Three to four players per year is normal to change. Any more than that and it becomes a problem for continuity. The coach should be constant. Buy his philosophy and let him work, but get the right players too.

Schemes can take you only so far. You can't make chicken soup with chickent s*^t (pardon my frensh). We lost on wednesday because some Olympiakos players are just that much better than ours. Plain and simple.

[pao123]

I think there is an entire generation of fans that have seen moderate success only with Markarian (only I don't remember if he ever won anything for us). For some of us who remember all the waaaaaaaayyyyyy back (can you say Kasmir Gorsky

[MadBoy13]

diavasa se mia efimerida oti o peseiro eipe ston Nini oti den ton ypologizei gia tora.

an einai alitheia tote tha ton paro apo kako mati ton peseiro ekei pou ton psilosimpathousa... MESA TON NINI TORA!