HOLLYWOOD Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 oh right.... remember his last season in Greece was a total exageration - Olympiakos relied on PAO to screw up 3 times before they could get a championship, OSFP were plain TERRIBLE the 2nd half I'm sorry but I really dont understand this mentality. PAO gave them the league??? How? By losing? Isnt that the point of a league? Both Oly and PAO play the same teams twice over the course of a year. If PAO are 2 points ahead with one game to go and PAO lose that game to a team they should have beaten that doesnt mean you gave them the league. You lost, they won, simple. PAO, AEK and Oly SHOULD be winning every game in the league, if you dont manage it tough s%$#!, thats the point of a league. You say they "relied" on you to lose, well go and win the ###### games then! You weren't good enough to get as many points, that makes them champs. Bajevic is the most successful club manager in Greek history simple as that! He is a disciplinarian and for the vendettes at your club he'd be perfect. Also, Bajevic has a stipulation in his contract that says no one else can get involved in team affairs so Vardino will be powerless in some respects too. Trust me, he'd be perfect for you. i think im the only pao fan to agree with dude....espeically in reguards to Bajevic and Oly being better in the past then Pao... If people were to use the excuses that Drakos has used ("remember his last season in Greece was a total exageration - Olympiakos relied on PAO to screw up 3 times before they could get a championship, OSFP were plain TERRIBLE the 2nd half") then everyone else in the world in any team sport (not only football) could just about state the same case as above (ohhh your team didnt win the league coz they were better they won it because we managed to F*** up when it counted so really u didnt win it :blink: and now i can continue to feel better about the miserable team i support by making excuses such as thoes :wub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUDE Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 oh right.... remember his last season in Greece was a total exageration - Olympiakos relied on PAO to screw up 3 times before they could get a championship, OSFP were plain TERRIBLE the 2nd half I'm sorry but I really dont understand this mentality. PAO gave them the league??? How? By losing? Isnt that the point of a league? Both Oly and PAO play the same teams twice over the course of a year. If PAO are 2 points ahead with one game to go and PAO lose that game to a team they should have beaten that doesnt mean you gave them the league. You lost, they won, simple. PAO, AEK and Oly SHOULD be winning every game in the league, if you dont manage it tough s%$#!, thats the point of a league. You say they "relied" on you to lose, well go and win the ###### games then! You weren't good enough to get as many points, that makes them champs. Bajevic is the most successful club manager in Greek history simple as that! He is a disciplinarian and for the vendettes at your club he'd be perfect. Also, Bajevic has a stipulation in his contract that says no one else can get involved in team affairs so Vardino will be powerless in some respects too. Trust me, he'd be perfect for you. i think im the only pao fan to agree with dude....espeically in reguards to Bajevic and Oly being better in the past then Pao... If people were to use the excuses that Drakos has used ("remember his last season in Greece was a total exageration - Olympiakos relied on PAO to screw up 3 times before they could get a championship, OSFP were plain TERRIBLE the 2nd half") then everyone else in the world in any team sport (not only football) could just about state the same case as above (ohhh your team didnt win the league coz they were better they won it because we managed to F*** up when it counted so really u didnt win it :blink: and now i can continue to feel better about the miserable team i support by making excuses such as thoes :wub: Exactly! And the sad thing is re file that a club like PAO should be successful in every competition but this type of attitude doesnt help the club. The fan base is huge, the fans are passionate, the club has a great history in other sports as well as football, the youth system has developed from its own youth system some wonderful talents over the years, etc. The point is every attribute is there for PAO to be a huge club and team in Europe. As big as Lyon, Benfica, or PSV... or even bigger! Yet many fans seem to be content with mediocrity (see this Uefa Cup campaign as an example). For a team like PAO this is not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 oh right.... remember his last season in Greece was a total exageration - Olympiakos relied on PAO to screw up 3 times before they could get a championship, OSFP were plain TERRIBLE the 2nd half I'm sorry but I really dont understand this mentality. PAO gave them the league??? How? By losing? Isnt that the point of a league? Both Oly and PAO play the same teams twice over the course of a year. If PAO are 2 points ahead with one game to go and PAO lose that game to a team they should have beaten that doesnt mean you gave them the league. You lost, they won, simple. PAO, AEK and Oly SHOULD be winning every game in the league, if you dont manage it tough s%$#!, thats the point of a league. You say they "relied" on you to lose, well go and win the ###### games then! You weren't good enough to get as many points, that makes them champs. Bajevic is the most successful club manager in Greek history simple as that! He is a disciplinarian and for the vendettes at your club he'd be perfect. Also, Bajevic has a stipulation in his contract that says no one else can get involved in team affairs so Vardino will be powerless in some respects too. Trust me, he'd be perfect for you. i think im the only pao fan to agree with dude....espeically in reguards to Bajevic and Oly being better in the past then Pao... If people were to use the excuses that Drakos has used ("remember his last season in Greece was a total exageration - Olympiakos relied on PAO to screw up 3 times before they could get a championship, OSFP were plain TERRIBLE the 2nd half") then everyone else in the world in any team sport (not only football) could just about state the same case as above (ohhh your team didnt win the league coz they were better they won it because we managed to F*** up when it counted so really u didnt win it :blink: and now i can continue to feel better about the miserable team i support by making excuses such as thoes :wub: Exactly! And the sad thing is re file that a club like PAO should be successful in every competition but this type of attitude doesnt help the club. The fan base is huge, the fans are passionate, the club has a great history in other sports as well as football, the youth system has developed from its own youth system some wonderful talents over the years, etc. The point is every attribute is there for PAO to be a huge club and team in Europe. As big as Lyon, Benfica, or PSV... or even bigger! Yet many fans seem to be content with mediocrity (see this Uefa Cup campaign as an example). For a team like PAO this is not good enough. we know this is not good enough..but with our greedy and stupid malak*s as our management what are we suppose to do..hey, the first thing im gunna do when i make my billions is buy the club and make it what it deserves to be :D but really, all the major decisions and investments made by the club are made by the management and it is sad what potential the team has and how it just stays at 'potential' instead of developing into something great..i would really love to do something about it because i think we as fans, know whats better for the club then the people running it..im am sorry to say it but it is true..despite what the fans wants and/or what is good for the team, the ppl in charge make the final decisions, and the people in charge right now are not the right ppl for the job.. i am by no means happy with the team..but i DO understand the current state of the team...and all i can be is patient...i am not happy with our performances this year...i dont even care that we are in the cup final..its a tainted trophy with little merit..it is something though..but regardless, i dont think any pao fan is happy with the mediocrity of the team..there are a few things to be happy about and afew positive signs but i try not to get too excited because chances are, somehow the club will find a way to f*ck it all up...im not happy but hey, this is sport and despite our bickering and bitching it is still just sport..im not happy to see my team losing and playing crappy ball but clubs go through ups and downs, sometimes each may last lengthy periods, and mb we are headed down, mb we are headed up, but i still am devoted to the team..but mb that just cause i love football :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXX-18T Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Does anyone know what Vardinop***** wants for the club? If there is a reasonable amount I think they should put Pao on the stock exchange. Each fan buys a share and we vote in a board of directors etc. Our team has cancer and we need to cut it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athens4 Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Stop moaning and look at my team before you talk of cancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoglani Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Question: why we had 20 coaches in 10 years?!! Who decides and evaluates them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 Very good article. But, I ask again: What's changed that will make me be hopeful for the future? Tzigger is still trying to find the right formula. If I understood correctly, he's now thinking of having Velic as general manager and a coach to share responsibilities. Btw. Tzigger will not sell or leave PAO, nor will he pull back. After the worst 10-11 years in PAO's history, he wants to prove he can do something good. He can't leave as a loser. His ego won't allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoglani Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Very good article. But, I ask again: What's changed that will make me be hopeful for the future? Tzigger is still trying to find the right formula. If I understood correctly, he's now thinking of having Velic as general manager and a coach to share responsibilities. Btw. Tzigger will not sell or leave PAO, nor will he pull back. After the worst 10-11 years in PAO's history, he wants to prove he can do something good. He can't leave as a loser. His ego won't allow it. First what will change: According to balla.gr Tsiger will take the seat of the president which first of all points to me that Mitsou is going to be in charge of our Medical team again.With him i doubt that we will face another disastrous in medical aspects year like this one.(e.g. Gonzales, Darlas, Kotsios, Victor e.t.c) Second change seems to be that Tzigger goes back to the system we had with Zaets and a coach which was the system which braught us our last titles. Third change will be that PAO is going back to the routes in players issues. We want go for big names whith many injuries but for players who fit in the sort of Münch and Warzycha for example. So no big names but good players with hunger for titles. I see also many changes in the stuff (not only the coach and trainers but also in the management.) Well in a summary there are going to be moves on mostly all the issues we cry for a long time now. Surely Tsiger want leave. He has invested way to much money to leave. But he starts thinking in another way which makes me personaly be optimistic about the future. I always can happen that i am wrong but at this time with this s%$#! i saw in the past i cant imagine things getting worser than they already are. I believe aswell that Vyntra has gone to far with the last action against Goumas and he will probably get his suitcase and send to hell for this and other issues like his perfomance.(IMO about time this little jirk leaves.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 oh right.... remember his last season in Greece was a total exageration - Olympiakos relied on PAO to screw up 3 times before they could get a championship, OSFP were plain TERRIBLE the 2nd half I'm sorry but I really dont understand this mentality. PAO gave them the league??? How? By losing? Isnt that the point of a league? Both Oly and PAO play the same teams twice over the course of a year. If PAO are 2 points ahead with one game to go and PAO lose that game to a team they should have beaten that doesnt mean you gave them the league. You lost, they won, simple. PAO, AEK and Oly SHOULD be winning every game in the league, if you dont manage it tough s%$#!, thats the point of a league. You say they "relied" on you to lose, well go and win the ###### games then! You weren't good enough to get as many points, that makes them champs. Bajevic is the most successful club manager in Greek history simple as that! He is a disciplinarian and for the vendettes at your club he'd be perfect. Also, Bajevic has a stipulation in his contract that says no one else can get involved in team affairs so Vardino will be powerless in some respects too. Trust me, he'd be perfect for you. i think im the only pao fan to agree with dude....espeically in reguards to Bajevic and Oly being better in the past then Pao... If people were to use the excuses that Drakos has used ("remember his last season in Greece was a total exageration - Olympiakos relied on PAO to screw up 3 times before they could get a championship, OSFP were plain TERRIBLE the 2nd half") then everyone else in the world in any team sport (not only football) could just about state the same case as above (ohhh your team didnt win the league coz they were better they won it because we managed to F*** up when it counted so really u didnt win it :blink: and now i can continue to feel better about the miserable team i support by making excuses such as thoes :wub: did you even watch the games that year?OSFP had a +9 lead at winter break and everyone was raving about they were sure champions. OSFP went totally downhill, dropping points and points and PAO was not exactly dominating and OSFP in the last month found themself several points behind PAO, blowing a 9 point lead at the break and now being - 4 or something....OSFP was playing like crap, they couldnt win games, and even when they went to Leoforos they were completly dominated by PAO. OSFP was crap, dropping points left and right and managed to pull it up only with the 3 straight ties of PAO at the very end of the season and PAO lost it by a point or two at the end of the season, with 2 games dropping points at home 1 away for PAO, Id say PAO was in control of that season towards the end, and PAO lost it - all they needed was to not screw up in their last home games and it would have been a comfortable win in the league. OSFP was crap, and had just 1 of those late season games been a few centimeteres more favorable for PAO, everyone would have actually remembered how sucky the OSFP team was playing and Bajevic would have been on the cross by the OSFP fans. Thats the truth- we had that one with an easy finish but couldnt beat Ira or Aris at home in the very last matchdays, and lost by a point - that was clearly our mistake, not Bajevic's major claim to fame, as his team was sprialling down. Its not an excuse like th BS you call it. Its a real fact - if we finished off just one of those last 2 games, we would have been the title winners. That was up to us. OSFP lost control of the league because of Bajevic, PAO took it and threw it away on the last day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Does anyone know what Vardinop***** wants for the club? If there is a reasonable amount I think they should put Pao on the stock exchange. Each fan buys a share and we vote in a board of directors etc. Our team has cancer and we need to cut it out! right like youd know a board of directors to put in, and Panathinaikos/ Greek football looks like a promising opportunity for investors right now. Den eisai me ta kala sou re Were stuck for good or for worse, unless somebody is willing to buy the team, but thats not very likely to happen anytime soon as the stadium plans are done and hasnt it started to be built? yeah it would have to be a couple years before somebody would buy that, let the depreciation settle in a bit. Hopefully staff under him will change, Mitsou has been wortheless I feel, and everybody cites lack of spending money is the problem. Problem is we spend too much money, and we spend it wrong. Thats a big difference. 9 million value deal on Salpiggidis total bullshit, and now we let go of the Bundesligas leading scorer. Its time to get scouts, team analysts with some intelligence, instincts and balls to tell the manager that the players value is worth the amount they ask for, or that a name player is a loss waiting to happen. And as for non player capital expenditures - PAO has got it pretty good come on....were getting a ###### atheltic complex that will be an envy of most major european teams....I feel people take that for granted, think about it, thats a lot of money, work and all for a team fading off the map..think about it, not many people would go out and do this...so "Vardinop*****s" and "Cancer" is not appropriate. Thats a huge investment to take the club forward he hasnt been succesful handling team affairs lately, but we can hope the next changes made in middle management are the right ones. We do have great things out of our youth program, a major stadium - the footballing part has to come eventually, and it will. Unfortunatley its like Alitalia, green and constantly delayed. Ultimately chain of command is Vardinogiannis - but I want to know - if PAO spends money and wastes time on major players like Conceicao and other losers that dont produce --- why arent we hearing of any firings going on? If you assured me and it was YOUR JOB to know these things, and youre wrong several times costing the company - -- youve got to get fired! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOLLYWOOD Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 i cant be botherd quoting u drakos, but the thing is the end result is the end result... Oly won more games then Pao that season hence they won the league... it doesnt matter on how they won the league (pao chocking in the last two games of the season to hand the title to oly) doesnt count as an excuse because in the end of the day lets say if pao didnt chock and won that year then all the gavri fans could say "ohhh we dominated that year, we were 9 points ahead of pao through the half way mark but we chocked on 4 key matches that year to hand the title to Pao" i dont know about you but that excuse is just lame to me?? the whole point of having a league and compitition is to win and lose matches and the team that wins the most matches r the champions... it doesnt matter weather a team happen to win more matches at the beggining of the season or at the end of the season, all that counts is the end result which oly did enough that year to win the title.... now to adress ur view on dustan, he did have a crappy year towards the end of that season due to player unrest and poor result however to judge him on soley on that isnt cool... this guy is the most sucessful manager in Greece!!! he came from serbia and dominated Greece with three different clubs (oly, Aek & Paok) winning titles with all of them... you know how hard it is to find a manager/coach in any football competition or even any sport competition with that kind of record? weather u like him or not (in ur case) he is the best manager in Greece and the right choice for this brothel of a team we call Pao... his recogonised for his dicipline which pao clearly lack, he gets the best out of all the players weather or not there superstars or bence warmers (which pao lacks, i mean look at the season Pap is having), he has a great understanding/knowledge of how things work in greece (which helps him coz he knows what his dealing with unlike foreighn coaches) finnally he has a keen eye for Greek prospect players... enough said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 i cant be botherd quoting u drakos, but the thing is the end result is the end result... Oly won more games then Pao that season hence they won the league... it doesnt matter on how they won the league (pao chocking in the last two games of the season to hand the title to oly) doesnt count as an excuse because in the end of the day lets say if pao didnt chock and won that year then all the gavri fans could say "ohhh we dominated that year, we were 9 points ahead of pao through the half way mark but we chocked on 4 key matches that year to hand the title to Pao" i dont know about you but that excuse is just lame to me?? the whole point of having a league and compitition is to win and lose matches and the team that wins the most matches r the champions... it doesnt matter weather a team happen to win more matches at the beggining of the season or at the end of the season, all that counts is the end result which oly did enough that year to win the title.... now to adress ur view on dustan, he did have a crappy year towards the end of that season due to player unrest and poor result however to judge him on soley on that isnt cool... this guy is the most sucessful manager in Greece!!! he came from serbia and dominated Greece with three different clubs (oly, Aek & Paok) winning titles with all of them... you know how hard it is to find a manager/coach in any football competition or even any sport competition with that kind of record? weather u like him or not (in ur case) he is the best manager in Greece and the right choice for this brothel of a team we call Pao... his recogonised for his dicipline which pao clearly lack, he gets the best out of all the players weather or not there superstars or bence warmers (which pao lacks, i mean look at the season Pap is having), he has a great understanding/knowledge of how things work in greece (which helps him coz he knows what his dealing with unlike foreighn coaches) finnally he has a keen eye for Greek prospect players... enough said the fact that PAO blew the protathlima is not the main issue the point im trying to make is, if PAO had done what was expected and very simple, Bajevic would not have the same standing and remembrance that he has now - he left on a "good note" but lets be honest, one different result of PAO (1 goal) and he would have been ripped to shreds by the media and people would acknowledge his bad results. I dont care if he comes or not - experience in the league I do appreciate, but its also Dusan Bajevic - think of WHO he is. Pressure will begin from DAY 1. It might not be fair, justified, but its going to be there. One or two screwups early year and all fans, media are going to crucify him. That is a reason why Bajevic is a risk - switching coaches midyear -AGAIN. And if you think its impossible for Bajevic to screw up, or its highly unlikely youre pretty naive, given the amount of coaches that have. Also the guy is not a long term coach....which really is something PAO needs, stability. I prefer to keep Munoz, maybe if we can give him the summer to figure things out, he can fix the consistency issue...rather than having some random coach come in and just prolong it or start it all over again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyzaf Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRIFILARA Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 I would like to say, that as an EXAMPLE OF BEING CAPTAIN, you should never talk to your coach in this way, NEVER!!!! This is the MAIN reason PAO as a team are s%$#!!!!!! Team spirit is at the lowest i can remember a PAO team having.... Why should the coach leave when your captain talks to him in this manner? For me... and this is my opinion... PAP should never have been given the captain's armband... HE IS NOT A LEADER!!!! We have too many EGO's in our side..... the biggest ..... PAP AND VYNDRA!!! Akous eki o vyndra na sikonie lexi ston gouma pou exeis xasi ema yia thn omada yia 10 xronia!! oust re... especially from the worst right back PAO has ever had in the last 20 years!!!! THAT IS PAO's biggest problem.... PAO managment rate their greek players above the coach..... and i say greek becoz they are the 1's who have the biggest ego.... How can players like Ivanschitz and Munch come to a club and after 1 season play with more passion than our so-called GREEK LEADERS of the team? IF this exact incident happened at most other big clubs in europe.... especially from a CAPTAIN of the side..... he would be sitting on the bench for a long long time... What does PAO managment do? They change coaches like condoms instead!!! This is a big mistake...... :tdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar7 Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Paps although i like him is not a leader by example.... dont give him the armband unless someone dies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoglani Posted May 2, 2007 Author Share Posted May 2, 2007 Paps although i like him is not a leader by example.... dont give him the armband unless someone dies I totaly agree with you bar on this issue. Pap is a great player but not made for teamleader. He has shown it many times that he doestn fit this possition. A teamleader should always keep a balance between management coach and team and not be the one that yells the most time. Sure he may his opionion but he must bring it forth in a civilized way so no bad incidents bring down the team.I would like to see Ivan next year as one of the captains in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 OK, since this topic is about a new coach.... As soon as the name of the new coach is announced, I'm going to start a poll with a prize for the winner as to how long this new guy will last! [don't you dare do this poll before me. OK?] Right now, I'm thinking Tzigger will give him until next xmas to show what he's got. This guy will see this stint as temporary, will learn about the 20 coaches (or more) the team had in the last 10 years, and before year's end, he won't care too much. And, the players will start complaining, and disrespecting him and each other.... Oh, yes, we are going to rebuild our team again, no?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyzaf Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoglani Posted May 7, 2007 Author Share Posted May 7, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 peseiro?? ..couldnt hack it as quieroz assistant as real madrid couldnt hack it for two seasons at sporting..made a mess of the team..i heard he is an awful diciplinarian too..i think this would be a poor move..i would rather have bajevic :tdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choc13 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 the only reason he made the final of uefa was because he had good players at sporting it's,,,another malesani if u ask me,,,when he was at parma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoglani Posted May 7, 2007 Author Share Posted May 7, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I believe the question was: whom you'd like to see as PAO coach? Upon further introspection, I decided: ME, myself, and I. :tup: Let me explain. What's the budget of PAO in the last 3 years? How much have all the coaches been paid? Seriously, give me a number. Well, I tell you. I'd accept whatever PAO paid the malezanis, scaznis, bakkes, etc. And, I'd cut the players budget by 50%! Save half the money right there! And, then I'd promise you to get you third place in the Greek league! Because I figure that a PAO team with half the budget (especially in that pathetic Greek league), and a coach in the US (like me.... OK, OK, I'll visit once a month) can't do worse than 3rd place! :nw: :nw: :nw: :nw: Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoglani Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 To hell with Velic!!! To hell with Peseiro!!! To hell with the ones who bring PAO in another disastrous Season!!! Everybody dont buy the long term tickets of Football PAO until the management makes the right desicions!!! We will get another nobody just because some Velic guy says he is good. I dont see anything good in his actions till now . Get a coach who will makes changes and give him the powers to do so. Giorgo thee Pare tin PAE afou den ti dinete stous Gianakopouleous toulaxisten anelabe esi anti to Tsigger to m#$%! pou mas exei katastrepsei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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