ukworm

It's actually astonishing how your thinking is so simplistic and incomplete!! Jesus Christ, what happened to common sense????? All countries will want a separate trading agreement with the UK of course! It's not going to happen overnight, but let's assume it will. Who has a bigger footprint to negotiate a better trade agreement with anybody? EU incl. UK (512 million) or UK on its own (60 million)? Why is Tesco cheaper than your local grocery shop? Because Tesco buys in huge volumes meaning it has more negotiating power!! With regards to agreement between EU countries and UK in particular, now goods travel freely. If UK leaves without a deal, they won't. Imported goods will be more expensive. Exported goods also. The definition of lose-lose.

But you are off topic again here... Who cares what happens in the Commons and what their agenda is... We are talking about the future of this country! What I am saying to you is that Brexit is a gamble. Why? Because there are 10 versions different versions of it so no-one actually understands the impact of those, and the ONE and ONLY clean version of it (Leave without a deal) CAN POSSIBLY BE A TOTAL DISASTER (I am NOT saying it WILL BE). Can ANYBODY BET THEIR HOUSE IT WONT BE A DISASTER?? So here comes my simple question: Who in their right mind who have invested their future in this country would leave everything to chance? Only the not haves, the nationalists, or the gullible ones... Or those who have nothing to lose! Which one are you? Excerpts from your previous post. I mean seriously, are those logical arguments of a responsible citizen??? 1) "I too have no idea what is round the corner" (and yet you still move forward with Brexit!!!!! Let's jump off the cliff without knowing if there's a safety net - yeah, hooray!!!!) 2) "I would rather battle than succumb. You know, die standing instead of living kneeling". This is peace time, WW2 ended in 1945 you know. And if you want to fight, you stay in, you fight them from within: gravitas, diplomacy, negotiation skills, knowledge of EU laws inside out (which clearly UK dont have a clue, that's why EU are now taking them for a ride...) PS - No visionary great big project is haven!! You have to try hard to make it work! Nothing happens automagically, that's the reality.

Και για να εξηγούμαι... Ούτε θέλω να δω τη σημαία του Άρη στο Δημαρχείο! Δεν έχει να κάνει με ΠΑΟΚ το σχόλιο Προλαβαίνω τα μπαοκια πριν έρθουν εδώ και μας γεμίσουν με μαλακίες πόστς ....

Και ξαναλέω για να μη πρηζομαστε με details μεγάλε ... Remain=Bau Leave with a deal: a bastardised solution which nobody wants. No deal Leave= a gamble, not a calculated risk... Could be better could be worse, could be a total disaster, I am not the Delphi Oracle. Go on, gamble with the country's future. Ιve made my choice and won't leave the country's future to chance. Άμα διαφωνείς πες.

Well, stick to that then and don't make assumptions.... Because you will be wrong. ? To your points... 1. EU isn't stopping anybody. But before leaving the bill and lots of other things need to be settled (the "deal"). What do you mean why on Earth pay!?!? Because it's an obligation. Think of it like a divorce. Or you just F*** off and leave with no deal and then be ready to face the consequences. And that's why only extremists and nationalists want this option (Mogg and his puppets). 2. And your point is? We are talking about UK here. 3. Oh yeah. Referendum was based on lies, false information, populism, buses, boats in the Thames, NHS millions etc. Not experts opinions, not think tanks, not subject matter experts.... What is my point indeed..... 4. Battle against who? Σε ποιον virtual πόλεμο πολεμάς ρε φίλε;;;; The fact that the north is F***ed wasn't EUs wrongdoing, it was the UK Gov, you are barking at the wrong tree!!!! 5. May begged for an extension with tail btw her legs! EU said ok have your extension, tell us what you want and come back in 6 months. Why are they a bully? 6. Nobody denies London is a bubble but thats nothing to do with EU, AGAIN you are barking at the wrong tree. And why are you ashamed? I am simply stating the facts. Αυτό είναι το κόμπλεξ των leavers. "Εγώ δεν έχω και τίποτα να χασω. Ας φύγουμε". What I am saying to you and you aren't getting it (not many leavers do as they are blinded by populism): This is NOT SCAREMONGERING. THIS IS COMMON SENSE. READ ON: Remain is a no risk option, is BAU. Leave is a gamble. If it works out, fine. If it doesn't we will all be F***ed, and more so, the low incomes who overwhelmingly voted Leave. Yes those ones who their own country hasn't been nice to them and yet they fly the flag of that country (the nationalism oxymoron). But then the damage will be irreversible. There will be No way back then. PS I agree about integration. In Rome do as Romans do or go home. But again the people who typically don't integrate are non-EU people. Again you are barking at the wrong tree... PS2: I am not a tree and I haven't got my eggs in one basket rest assured. Αλλά όταν γίνει αυτο και εγώ φυγω, να δω τι θα κάνουν όλοι αυτοί που ψήφισαν leave και γαμησανε τη χώρα τους με τα χεράκια τους... Εγώ δε θα χαθώ φιλαράκι. Αυτοί θα γαμηθουν 1000 φορές πιο πολύ από μένα. PS3: Doesn't Belgium have issues with space...? Or Holland? Or Austria? Only UK? Again that's the improvement you can drive FROM WITHIN if space is your problem. Come on, is this a serious argument now?

Couldn't agree more. Brexit is barking at the wrong tree.... There was NO need for Brexit. The Polish builder isn't the problem! Future is impossible to know but signs aren't good, I have friends in various companies, they are already making plans to relocate, and companies hate uncertainty. Brexit was an excuse for lower income people, extremists etc to voice their disgust to main Government for decades of UNACCEPTABLE neglect (e.g. ghost towns of the Midlands and the North, i.e. southbound direction of money). The problem is what these people don't understand is that if the services sectors (finance, London) gets poorer everyone will be affected. If 20000 jobs are lost in the City, things in Middlesbrough will get even worse.

You must be the turkey that voted for Christmas surely! You are not serious.... Your post is full of unsubstantiated claims. It's so shockingly bad that I don't even know where to start. Even worse than your PAOK posts.... 1. "The EU is a gang". Oh yeah? Really? Because you say so? Because Farage says so? 2. "The first crime is the currency". Really? This is just BS. Greece WANTED to join. They weren't forced. Britain wanted to stay out, they were allowed to stay out. What are you on about? 3. Yes people were lied by politicians! Which makes this referendum a total farce! 4. What Brexit did you vote for do you know? Are you ready for no deal? Are you ready to possibly become poorer? You don't have answers for that, do you? What the hell do you think this is? The Darkest Hour movie? This is real life and stupid choices matter! 5. The EU is really handing us a lifeline right now and being kind to us while we have been absolute idiots." Again unsubstantiated bullshit. You have done your analysis and you are confirming that this isn't the case, right? At least I voted remain, knowing that remain is clear, we carry on as is. I am happy with my life in Britain, extremely happy with quality of life and my income, so we remain and we fight from WITHIN the EU TO MAKE THINGS BETTER for the UK (clearly things can be improved but UK has the GRAVITAS to push for changes). When you voted leave, which leave did you vote for? . Did you vote for Leave with a deal or no deal? WTO terms? Customs union? Border in IE? Admit that you had NO clue my friend. And don't just say "LEAVE is LEAVE" like those chavs or QT, because clearly we have seen that there are at least 10 versions of LEAVE, and if you go for NO DEAL LEAVE, be prepared for the worst. I am not saying it will happen, but I have NO proof that it won't happen either. Do you know that most companies in the UK and particularly in the City are making plans to F*** off from the UK? Do you know what that will mean? And I am not going to say I know! But I do know that the little no risk position is to REMAIN. LEAVE is ANYONE'S GUESS, and that's the problem with it. Nobody has done an analysis, and nobody can guarantee anything.

https://www.allaboutaris.com/newsroom/136951/katevasan-tis-simaies-pou-aythaireta-anevikan-sto-dimarxeio Και καλά ξηγήθηκαν.... Αει σιχτίρ επιτέλους με το μπεκρή το Μπουτάρη που κατεβάζει (!!) την ελληνική σημαία από το Δημαρχείο για να βάλει τη σημαία της γυφτο-μπάοκ! Τη σημαία μίας ΜΑΜΗΜΕΝΗΣ ανώνυμης εταιρίας στην τελική. Στο δικό μου δημαρχείο!! Ουστ από δω Κοπρόσκυλα, τα έχετε ξεφτελίσει όλα πια σ'αυτή τη χώρα για λίγη δημοσιότητα! Μπάσταρδοι λαικιστές, πληρωμένα τομάρια.

Well said.

Farage (Brexit party), Rudd (Con, supports May's deal), Soubry (Change UK, pro 2nd Referendum) on the same panel on BBC QT last night in Northhampton (NB deep Brexit-land in the Midlands). Boos, cheers, jeers, shouts, chants, insults, scaremongering, false information all over (or lack of), populism...... Bloody hell...... OMG 35 years on I am re-living the Andreas - Mitsotakis era!!!! Panathinaikos v Olympiakos, Paok-Aris, Paok-Aek looks like childrens' playground in comparison.... ?

Εγώ για τη ΜΕΤΡΟ-ΜΠΑΟΓΚ μίλησα αγόρι μου. Αμφισβητείς κάτι από αυτά που λέω; Σιγά μη πάω στο Βυζάντιο χαχαχ! Νομίζεις ότι είμαι κανένας μπατίρης φοιτητάκος ή κανένας κακομοίρης κακομούτσουνος Έλληνας homesick που βρίζει την ώρα και τη στιγμή που βρέθηκε στο Λονδίνο, για να πάω να την πέσω στο Bυζάντιο και να δω αυτή τη μαλακία μαζί με άλλους κακόμοιρους; Πλάκα μου κάνεις μου φαίνεται.... Δεν έχεις ιδέα φιλαράκι, δεν έχεις ιδέα....

Είναι δε γνωστό πως παοκτσής προωτοκλασσάτος δημοσιογράφος (καλός) διαφωνούσε με την πολιτική να παίζουν όλο και πιο πολύ ΠΑΟΚ και τελικά σηκώθηκε και έφυγε. Και από τότε είναι ΤΟ σίχαμα αυτή η ρυπαροφυλλάδα.

Ματίγια νομίζω είναι πίσω στις προπονήσεις. Διάβασα στο ΜΕΤΡΟ-ΜΠΑΟΓΚ ότι ο Παντελίδης σκέφτεται να βάλει αναπληρωματικούς. Που για μένα είναι βλακεία. Τους βλέπεις στις προπονήσεις κάθε μέρα. Από το τελευταίο αδιάφορο ματς θα δεις αν σου κάνουν ή οχι; Βάλε μέσα τους καλύτερους να πάρουμε μια μεγάλη νίκη να γουστάρει ο κόσμος. ΥΓ - αλλά βέβαια ΜΕΤΡΟ-ΜΠΑΟΚ είναι αυτή. Και ως γνωστό πρόκειται για μια σιχαμερή κωλοφυλλάδα βρωμόγυφτων και τουρκόσπορων, με μανδύα δήθεν φιλικά προσκείμενο στον Άρη, που το μοναδικό της κίνητρο είναι να κάνει κακό στον Άρη με οποιονδήποτε ύπουλο τρόπο μπορεί. Είναι αυτή που πρώτη βγάζει είδηση για τους απλήρωτους του Άρη, που κάνει γαργάρα τους απλήρωτους του ΠΑΟΚ, που ποτέ δεν αναφέρεται στα αλμυρά εισητήρια του Μπαοκ, ενώ έσπευσε να μας προστατέψει λέγοντας ότι τα εισητήρια με Ξάνθη είναι ακριβά.... Και πόσα άλλα....

The other thing I wanted to say is I can't understand how one of the oldest democracies in the world allowed this referendum to be meaningful with such a slim majority. There should have been a limit so there are no doubts about what people want (e.g. anything under e.g. 60-40, 55-45 whatever is agreed). So where are we today? If there was a 2nd referendum tomorrow, Remain would win by 52-48. If there was a 3rd one the day after tomorrow, Leave would win by 51-49. And so on.... It's just ridiculous!!! The "people have spoken", only they are telling us a different thing every single day! (and why is that? I covered this in the previous post, because it's an emotional vote and really they haven't got a clue). Contrast this with what happened in Greece in 1974 when Presidential democracy won by a huge margin 70-30 and there was a limit then (cant remember what it was). Yes, that is decisive. Leaves no doubt what people want. Not much to discuss, bye bye royals. But this mess now...? Oh my god....

That's why the referendum was such a bad idea. Because the public don't have a clue and are totally gullible. So they fell for the politicians' lies and populism (on both sides of the argument). Moral of the story: you DON'T leave those SERIOUS matters for the people to decide. It's criminal (or rather, suicidal). Who do I blame for this mess? Cameron. It was the main part of his manifesto. For his own political ambitions (ie to get re-elected) he's turned this great country into a laughing stock and divided the people. People are not willing to listen, they have become like football fans religiously supporting Leave or Remain playing back the stupid populist lies that they hear left right and centre. It's just shite, nothing is based on facts, no technical/financial assessments, no SMEs talking but rather stupid useless politicians, just BS, chants, flags, accusations left right and centre, heated arguments on QT etc.

Basha τον έβαλα βασικό μόνο αν ο Ματίγια δεν μπει λόγω ασθένειας. Διαφορετικά Ματίγια είναι πιο κατάλληλος, συμφωνώ.

Αντε να αρχίσουμε να σκεφτόμαστε λίγο το ματσάκι!!!! Λοιπόν, τελευταίο ματς της χρονιάς. Ξεκινάμε με απουσίες Βαλεριάνου, Λάρσον, Βέλεζ και τους γνωστούς μόνιμους απόντες, Τόνσο πάλι αμφίβολος, αλλά και κάποια ίωση Ματίγια ακούω. Η ενδεκάδα που είχα δώσει δεν αλλάζει ιδιαίτερα, ίσως Μπάσα στη θέση Ματίγια. -----------------------K-------------------------- Tζ---------Δελη----Ρόουζ---Κορχουτ ----------Σιώπης----Ματίγια----------- Φετφα-----Μαρτίνεζ-----Γκαρσία -------------------Ντιγκινι----------------- Και από κει και πέρα Σόουζα για να καλύψει 2 θέσεις στην άμυνα, Γιουνές μπροστά, που γυρνάει το Ντιγκινί στα πλάγια αν χρειαστεί, και αναλόγως Φέτφα εξτρέμ ή δεκάρι.... Ψιλοαποδεκατισμένοι δηλαδή, αλλά με εσωτερικές αλλαγές, κουτσά στραβά, η ομάδα κάπως θα βολευτεί - εκτός από αριστερό μπακ που δεν υπάρχει αλλαγή και μόνο αλχημείες μπορούν να γίνουν.

Μην πετάς τη μπάλα στη εξέδρα. Δε μιλησα για Ολυμπιακό. Δες παραπάνω για ποιο λόγο απαντώ εδώ μέσα. Btw Και δηλ τι θες και προκαλείς μιλώντας για master και τέτοιες μ@λ@κιες; Εγώ γιατί να σεβαστώ το τοπικ σας όταν έρχεσαι εσύ και του ξεσκίζεις τη μάνα; Τεσπά, πολλά είπαμε. Απάντησα στον Bananas, και καλή συνέχεια.

You had a much bigger debt because your club was grossly mismanaged by Goumenos, Batatoudis etc... "And what strange things did happen?" I have two options, I can respect the topic, or refresh your memory. Pretty sure you are not suffering from memory loss, and you know full well what I am talking about. I choose the former. PS - PAO is historically 10 times bigger club than PAOK and still can't find a saviour. Your argument has no merit.

First of all: Their motto is "συνεχίζουμε να ονειρευόμαστε" or something. What are you referring to exactly? Where have you seen "we rule this country"? Can you post a link?

Not quite Ziaka..... We didn't exterminate ourselves, we just ran out money. If I recall you had much bigger financial problems and you were in much worse situation than us owing tens of millions, but then "strange things happened" that kept you afloat for a few years and then finally Savvidis paid off the original debt. Anyway enjoy your topic guys.

You can't take me seriously, eh? Try harder and give us a serious answer next time, otherwise don't bother trying to be funny. "But seriously...." what? Oh I am and I've explained why. A team wanting to be the dominating force in its city is different from μια πολη μια ομαδα. And of course it doesn't matter what fans want (or don't want). What does matter is what the club states publicly. Want proof? They were more than happy to kick Iraklis down the cliff, weren't they? And your point is....? I am not interested in Olympiakos here, pash. I was just responding to Bananas because he mentioned me, and I am simply explaining my position. Feel free to delete my posts if you don't like them, it's your celebration topic after all.

One city one team my friend... That's what I am talking about.... Basically PAOK as an Organisation is openly stating to the World that other teams in the city don't exist. They have been wiped out, or Paok wishes to see them wiped out. Take your pick. (that's your team's main slogan, therefore shouldn't be taken lightly, right? It's not a chant that fans sing. It's not tongue in cheek. This is PAOK slogan bang on the main website and therefore in a way mission statement and ultimate goal.) Therefore, AEK/Oly/PAO/other fans can congratulate you all they want, but if Aris/Iraklis fans did so, it would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. PS - I don't want to engage in heated conversations (with Yankos et al). If you have valid arguments on this very topic (and nothing else), let's hear them.

LOL - I see you haven't kept your promise... On a serious note: Go to PAOK website and post your reply here what it reads under "Match Center" and "PAOK Academy". That speaks volumes about the mentality of this club: basically "now that we got lots of money, let's crush and wipe out all the others". Until that's removed my friend, no Aris (and Iraklis) fans should be congratulating you, and certainly I - AS A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE - won't be.

Thanks mate. We hope so too, because Greece isn't doing very well in the rankings at the moment. Smaller clubs like Panionios, Tripoli, Atromitos etc. struggle to bring points to Greece (vs. Aris & and a healthy PAO)...