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Manolara last won the day on October 22 2015

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  1. WW3 incoming? U.S have done nothing about their rabid dog. What's going to happen to their military bases and nukes aimed at Russia? Putin making moves to make himself and his oligarch buddies wealthier. #Putinistheleaderofpeace #Orthodoxbrotherhood+IslamofascistErdogan
  2. Calling out Red Sheriff and other "Greeks should pay", "it's all Greece's fault" supporters. I'm surprised this hasn't been posted in here yet... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/28/imf-admits-disastrous-love-affair-with-euro-apologises-for-the-i/
  3. You do realize that being in the Eurozone, Greece can't print any of it's own money, correct? So how did Greece get more money without increasing productivity or revenue? How did Spain, Ireland, Italy, Portugal? How did all these countries, at the same time, all see increases in their property market and stockmarket and all crash at the same time? Then your rationalization as to why a bankrupt, nepotistic, corrupt, dysfunctional state should receive loans to the tune of 100% of GDP to pay off debt of 160% of GDP, is what exactly? The political and wealthy class have no incentive to change the country and have information before anyone else, giving them time to position themselves, and their wealth, to be clear from the austerity measures. And the IMF+ECB are giving Greece loans out of the goodness of their hearts? Either way your conclusion is that the EU, IMF, ECB are all naive. Greece is too rigid in it's socio-economic ideology that it will never change to a modern, westernized, capitalistic utopia. Yet it was allowed in the EU, and plenty of loans are given to Greece to change/pay off debt. So all of you that criticise Greece knew better than the EU when it allowed Greece in the EU and again when they voted to force Greece to take on loans. Yet none of you can accept that they all knew exactly what they where doing, and they didn't care. Most of the debt Greece owed was to private institutions, which lent out willy nilly, much like what happened in the American financial crisis in 2007, to countries all over Europe. Greece was in the worst position due to it's political corruption, inefficiency and poor governance over the years that emptied state coffers. The private debt was then offloaded into public institutions around Europe but Greece got the blame to cover up for Deutsche Bank and the rest. The Irish government had enough room to take on the bad debts, same with Spain, Italy and the rest. Yet was the banks reckless spending ever questioned and blamed? Were the policies of the European Union blamed for allowing such poorly run nations into the Union? Were political parties blamed? Was anyone put in jail? No. It's ALL Greece's fault. The majority of Greeks who did the right thing have to pay for the corruption of the political and wealthy classes and you're all here saying "they deserve it". They protested all the time! Every political party is no different from the other! Xrysi Avgi is different from the norm yet there's still criticism for Greeks choosing them when they have no other options? Then you make jokes when I mention revolution? We've had Syriza, N.D, PASOK in power and they've done F*** all. Yet Greeks are still blamed for voting them in... :S It's easy to criticise and "know better" living abroad watching ERT and MEGA, thinking you're better than the Greeks in Greece because you live in Australia, USA, U.K, and that somehow makes you better. But you all come of as narcissistic, arrogant pricks.
  4. This is the Greek League. Speculation/reality are pretty much the same. I don't see Meli putting any of his own hard earned cash into the team. Fixing the Levadiakos game to make money to invest for next year is no big deal really. We lose 1 game, and don't have a chance to make CL groups so... The Greek League is a house of cards and needs to take the weight of another fat ass selfish drug mule/heroin pig. Why would anyone invest their own money in this shithole? At least Vaggelara can watch his team in the CL and be content with seeing success on the stingy investment he makes.
  5. The Euro's would send billions of... euros to Greece and every other country that requested them. What a magical organisation the EU is. You want money? You want money? You got it. WHO ELSE WANTS MONEY?!?!?! Of course German and French banks wanting a higher rate of return on idle capital didn't add fuel to the fire by buying bonds in Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain which fuelled asset bubbles in real estate and the stockmarket right? They can never be accused of wrongdoing. As our other friend tells us: It's Greece's own fault! I love this line. Investment bankers gamble on gambles and insure those gambled gambles to make big money but when they lost, the blame fell on the home owners who where approved multiple loans with no means testing, fraudulent loan application approvals, and NINJA loans. At the end of the day it's their own fault for being approved homes they couldn't afford and putting themselves in that position to begin with! And at the end of the day who are we referring to when we say "it's Greece's own fault"? Do the yiayiades and papoudes in the xoria understand Credit Default Swaps? Do they know who JP Morgan is? Maybe he's Taso and Maria's son from Vouliagmeni. Do they understand how a national economy works? Maybe we're referring to the youth, 1 in 2 of which is unemployed and probably 1 in 3 of those employed are owed months of backpay. Is that the Greece who is at fault? The moral righteousness reigns supreme when poor people can be used as an excuse because Greece is free, and people have the freedom to make choices. Make a bad choice and it's your own fault. The complexities of suburban and urban life don't matter. GDP per capita don't matter. Education don't matter. Health don't matter. Nor do political influences. When the wealthy, powerful, make a mistake we turn a blind eye and passively aggressively shove that bit of reality so far down our mind that we barely notice the difference. When world leaders do nothing about the offshore tax havens and the trillions in untaxed wealth, we just pretend like it isn't happening and all is well, just like when one of our friends yells or physically assaults their spouse at a bbq. It's best not to get involved and the problem will be solved somehow. But how dare those poor, powerless people be poor an destroy national and world economies! They're the world movers and shakers that we should go after! While one hand is scolding Greece's poor, the other hand funnels money out of the country into said tax havens, further worsening the crisis for those who have nothing else left to give but the blood their ancestors fought for against the Italo-fascists, Nazi's, Communists, Junta, and Turks. Bravo.
  6. Would anyone care if this guy set up the 3-0 against Levadiakos and made 20mil euro and invested it in the club? I wouldn't.
  7. If the stations are in financial trouble then this makes sense. Whether he does or doesn't give them a licence it will look suspicious.
  8. I'm still not buying it because of what I mentioned above. Turkey might be growing but "per capita" Greece supposedly has twice the living standards than both Russia and Turkey. The same red tape bureaucracy, tight media control, basically, the same problems that we have, Turkey and Russia have. Their bourgeois might be smarter in protecting themselves, their assets and, in essence, their country, but the regular citizens are the same. The Turks have a pseudo-dictator running the state, just like Russians have a oligopoly/dictatorship. Both nations have tight media control, censorship, assassinations, control of dissent, the eradication of opponents, and a burgeoning corporatocracy made with their friends in the government. Greece isn't that extreme. Regular Greek, Russian, Turkish citizens have no say in what happens in government. Much labour is undertaken to cover up what is actually happening but some people are trying to stand up and make a difference in all countries. Mind you it is much harder in Russia than Turkey or Greece but this "Ottoman" mentality, I don't think exists. I had similar theories of my own but I was wrong. @Red Sheriff There's a consistent pattern in GSL teams where random "presidents" and investors come in, the club goes bankrupt "from within" and only Olympiakos is financially sound. As the organisers and those responsible for the Greek Soccer League, why haven't EPO or the Footballing body done anything about weeding out corruption, shifty owners, etc? They are in charge of the league aren't they? You keep saying that 'cute' this and 'cute' that yet in a cesspool of corruption, bribery and scandal only one club is ever clean. Surely you're not that naive. Here the top WORLD footballing body was corrupt and everyone knew for ages yet Olympiakos has a stadium built for them in record time, no debt, constant league title wins which get the CL group stages, and you see no problems here? Beos and Marinakis being voted into political positions of power? Makaros, Melissanidis being allowed to own a club? The guy owns OPAP! How is there no conflict of interest here? The Turkish league is no different, although all that money at least makes competition better with all the "superstars" they bring in. Yet both national teams are garbage, one (Greece 0-1 Faroe Islands) worse than the other. Still no problem? That's cute. Greece has had ND/PASOK all these years and the country was no different. Pseudo socialist/communist where voted in and nothing changed. Even if Theodore Roosevelt came back from the dead, he still wouldn't change anything. Ideologically? Realistically, the economy is hanging by a thread. What is anyone going to do? Force more austerity onto people when youth unemployment "officially" sits at 50%, unemployment "officially" sits at 25%, the economy is still shrinking from the 25% it already has, pensions are feeding extended families and we are part of a monetary union that doesn't give a F*** about Greece? Are we going to inflate our way out of it? We can't. We can't even get ourselves out of it with austerity either because eventually, there will be nothing left. Cut government spending on pensions, welfare, etc and you will see a reduction in aggregate demand, increase in bankruptcies, meaning less income from tax and more strain on welfare. Privatise and you cut your nose to spite your face. What's going to happen when the government fires employees? More unemployed. Privatises public assets and it can continue paying it's debts in the short term while screwing itself over in the long term. Syriza at least gave the people a democratic choice with the referendum. They weren't allowed to uphold it by Europe. Blame Syriza all you want but y'all can't see the forest for the trees.
  9. Greece has a "bloated" public sector: Figure 21.1 Employment in general government as a percentage of the labour force (2000 and 2008) Figure 21.2 Employment in general government and public corporations as a percentage of the labour force (2000 and 2008) In other words, Greece has public assets, that are making a profit, which would sell cheap during a financial crisis to "pay off external debts" which can't be forgiven. Yet selling a revenue making asset for short term gains, which is what Varoufakis and other notable economists bring up, is cutting our nose to spite our face. It makes no sense. Source. http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/gov_glance-2011-en/05/01/index.html?itemId=/content/chapter/gov_glance-2011-27-en Was the U.S happy with the system they created leading up to the 2008 Global Financial Crisis? Was Portugal? Was Ireland? Was Iceland? Was Spain? Was Italy? Did they all know best too? World debt has doubled since 2008. It is currently twice the value of the world's total economic output. Is the World naively in it's happy days or will that crash will be Greece's fault as well? Is Japan? Only Greece has tax cheats. Only Greece has a "bloated public sector". Only Greek has red tape. Only Greece this that and the other. Meanwhile, JP Morgan's asset sheet is bigger than France's GDP (6th biggest economy in the world) and the shareholder's equity is as big as Greece's GDP.
  10. I'm not only anti-osfp I'm also anti-GSL. Every year I follow it less and less. I don't see how my analogy is "cute". All the clubs in the Greek League, in order to be successful in the past 20 years, depended upon ONE sole sugar daddy. If you think United, you think Ferguson. If you think Arsenal, you think Wenger. If you think Bundesliga, you think fan ownership. If you think Barca, you think tiki-taqua/Messi. You think Real, you think wealth/Royal's club/bla bla bla. What's happened in the League all these years? Clubs have received less and less revenue. Aris, Paok, Pao, everyone. A lot have gone bankrupt. A lot are full of corruption. Yet the fans still kept going. You bring up that AEK+Paok are financially healthier because they have a backing of a sugar daddy. Demi wanted to set up Aek to be financially sound. He was the only president, that I can think of, who was ousted from the club for doing so. Beos was a crook yet he was still at the club. No problems until Koriopolis. Marinakis is implicated in a 2 tonne heroin smuggling operation in Piraeus, also involving an ex-olympiakos board member. Nothing. Makaros at Aek? Left on his own accord. Yet only Nikolaidis was forced out. Which other president has gone forth offering progressive reforms and passed them? Every other Aek president we had between Demi and Melisanidi I had no idea who the F*** these people where and why the media kept hyping them up. Clearly, things where happening behind the scenes. Nikolaidis was ostracized out of the country while Marinakis was voted a Piraeus city council member and Beos was voted as a mayor. How is my analogy flawed, I still don't understand? Greek League is producing nothing. Most clubs are deep in debt. Only one is fine and supported by the League. The rest are left to rot which is clearly, and i repeat CLEARLY, Greece 0-1 Faroe Islands, affecting the National Team. If this was France I would already be suffering an "Arab Backlash" and the exodus of the Jewish community because of it.
  11. I'm not quite convinced because if you look at Turkey and Russia, they're similar in their autocratic style of rule under Putin and Erdogan. Both heads of their nations, (Erdogan for 11 years, Putin for 17 years), both have subdued and silenced their opponents, both have censored their media, both have used the state to make themselves and their friends rich, both have subverted the law, both limit the internet, both control state media, etc, etc. Some similar muddled s%$#! has occurred in Greece too. See the thing with the sanctions on Russia, imposed by the EU-US, only affected your average Russian citizen. The oligarchs with their multi-million dollar Manhattan apartments, English football clubs and other foreign assets in "allied" nations, was untouched. Yet the EU/US wanted to send a message? Putin could just blame the EU/US, ridding himself of the blame while being a bit annoyed. His wealthy friends were mostly fine. Erdogan is doing similar s%$#!. Using public funds to give favorable contracts to his mates. Saying that, they have similar problems to Greece: Source: The economist Politics vs Turkey? s%$#!. Spending on military? Both high. Economy? In some aspects similar. We have double their gdp per capita, they have a larger gdp. We have more debt, their debt's are rated as junk by Moody's. Bureaucracy? Similar. The only thing I can say that Turkey is a winner in, compared to us, is diplomacy. That said, both countries have people who stand up for what is right, for justice, for freedom, etc. The problem is Turkish and Greek "revolutionaries" coming together for peace and prosperity is dangerous and damages the status quo. Even independently, they're still dangerous. Point I'm making is that the "big guys" are always untouched and the socio-political environment is the one where it is easiest to control the proles. Greeks are slightly smarter so more political parties and media outlets confuse them. Turks rally around Islam. Russians can't tell the difference between a dictator and socialism. Then again, either can yanks!
  12. Sad... hasn't had a club for a few months. Practically finished at 30.
  13. If the acronyms mean nothing that who is behind these political groups? The ideology is all the same. You give the idea of true representative democracy too much credit. What Syriza said before they gained power was completely different to what Syriza are doing. Yet the people voted in Syriza before they promised one thing and did another. Twice. You think Europe wasn't sweating under Varoufakis' speeches and intentions? As soon as they pushed favourable changes for themselves in Greece, Varoufakis was left with nothing, and quit. There's nothing wrong with agitation, especially when you're not making outrageous demands. The EU made the same mistakes as they did post ww1, except the difference was that PIGS where no military powerhouses. The extremists and fascist groups have popped up though. All those who wanted to change the system, from one side of the spectrum to the other, have been shut down to preserve the status quo. Look at Greek soccer for example. A competitor of Aek could easily infiltrate the fan clubs, the presidency and shareholder decisions. The benefit in crippling your opponent outweighs the cost because the benefits occur with easier access to the CL group stages. Fans run riot, cause violence, club gets fined. Repeat ad nauseum. Shareholders make poor decision after poor decision. Spending money on players all the time. Everyone makes a cut at the clubs expense. Nikolaidis wanted to change all that. He wanted to get rid of the violence, handle the board and build a stadium. What happened? His own fans turned on him and kicked him out. How was this even possible? Behind the scenes dealings and media propaganda. Have these positive measures been implemented? No. Why? They made sense didn't they? Why has no one else stood in and said "we need to improve the game"? 12 years later the club either have to get through too much red tape or media propaganda is going on about the stadium is "going to be built". In those 12 years what has happened? The league as a whole has gotten weaker and those in charge have been asleep at the wheel. Or have they? Volos, Aris, Aek, Hraklis, etc, etc have all had financial problems. Corruption has been rife. Competition has gotten weak. The game is a joke. Yet only one club is squeaky clean with a new stadium. That makes no sense. Either Olympiakos can somehow overcome all these obstacles within the club, and in the league OR, they are the status quo, and the league caters to them. The SL+EPO have sat back and done nothing. Just like the government caters to the wealthy while the media covers everything up. The big pay off is the CL groups/government contracts. Those who want complete destruction of the system or vast improvements are ostracized. The fans/people have no clue what's going on. The media keeps everyone confused and distracted. The wheels keep spinning. What happened to the Lagarde list? Average Greeks don't pay taxes. I'm not saying it's not a problem but it's not THE problem. Yet it's the main one being focused on. Even here in Australia. Gina Rinehart is protected from showing her taxes because she might be "kidnapped" but we'll demonize welfare recipients for a few million to show we're doing something. The few multinationals that "legally" pay zero net tax could raise billions yet welfare cheats are the problem they focus on.
  14. *Insert example of a private lawyer poorly representing their client* One example does not represent the whole.
  15. That is a weird definition. You could say that modern Greece was founded by terrorism since the Ottomans never authorized the upheaval. Then again if you argue that revolutions aren't terrorism then what's to say that any actions of a terrorist aren't revolutionary?
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