Argy

We better hope we can hold a top 50 spot after these results because we are in threat of dropping to Pot 4 in the EURO2020 qualifying which could see us drawing 3 formidable opponents with higher rankings than us. Draw is on January 24th.

You are absolutely right, but we were in the same situation before groups were set for WCQ and we ended up with Bosnia as our POT 2 opponent. Could have just as well been Switzerland, France or Italy though so we were fortunate. It's very much the luck of the draw. Poland was in POT 3 same as us but got Wales and Austria from POT 1 and 2 and ended up winning the group handily.

Mantalos is really bad with the NT. I want him to be good too but he was given so much opportunity and has done nothing. You feel so strongly about Gianniotas out when he was the only one who showed flare yesterday and guts. Not Fortounis who roams the pitch praying no one will pass to him because he will panic.

He takes it from impotent Mantalos who should not be starting.

There are lots of average players, but Gianniotas gives it a go every time he gets a shot, gives us a rare glimpse of flare and creativity, and he even scored as a sub a couple of games ago. Deserves a spot on the roster.

Gioannitoas was dynamite yesterday in the short time he was on he deserves to be on there. Torosidis' service was atrocious. It may be time for him to go and give Sokratis the permanent captaincy like he deserves.

Like Santos subbed off Ninis for Patsazoglou when we were trailing to S.Korea in the world cup.

Look at how Sweden played today. They just beat Italy 1-0. Their team on paper is not better than ours, but they start the right players, play a great system and with confidence. You can see they truly believe they belong on the pitch with Italy, unlike Greece who fielded an XI full of defenders slotted in every position. We came into the match with belief, but only if we completely park the bus. This is why we are are so fragile and nervous, because our whole mindset revolves around being the little engine that could. The moment we get over this, is the moment we will take a big step forward.

Maniatis, Tziolis, etc don't need a farewell game, they got their farewell game yesterday along with Greece saying farewell to the World Cup. They did enough; now it is time to play our best/most in-form players and get a result from this match.

1) If Toro was to retire he'll wait for 7 caps to hit the centennial 2) Is anyone pushing him to retire? Yes, Retsos can replace him, but he is very young and a natural CB. We have no legitimate RB replacement in the pipeline unless you consider Lykogiannis or 26 yr old Bakakis, but despite Toro's age, they are still a big drop-off.

Fortounis sucks man he was so bad and even at his best with the NT he is just OK.

Exactly this. He is the best player Greece has ever produce and, after failing to qualify to WC18, realistically has one potential tournament left in him, as he will be turning 32 on June 9 around the time Euro 2020 begins. At Euro 2020 this will be the age of our current core (note I have omitted certain players that should not be on the team for the qualifying campaign): Karnezis (34), Kapino (26) Sokratis (32), Manolas (29), K Papadopoulos (28), Torosidis (35), Retsos (21), Stafylidis (25) Zeca (31), Samaris (31), tachtsidis (29) Donis (23), Mitroglou (32)

Yesterday only 2 of starting 11 were natural offensive players. We really can't see a more defensive lineup on Sunday than that garbage we saw in the first leg. Things like his last minute panic switch of Maniatis replacing Retsos are reminiscent of Rehhagel's last minute Vyntra over Kyrgiakos in WC10, which led to embarassment. We will never get anywhere is this loser mindset.

Our midfield is atrotious and it is time to broaden our view and open our mind to what else we had out there. You cannot tell me that Fetfatzidis would be have been more useless than Fortounis or have been a worse sub than Bakasetas. We are so lacking on attacking midfield and on the wings how can we systematically ignore players that can offer some skill and creativity?

This game is out of reach, but like Sokratis said postgame, we must show that we are not a team that loses 4-1 and leave this tie off with a win and our head held high.

You will get lots of backlash for this. I think this all depends on the culture in which you grew up, both societal and domestic. Lots of people inherited love for their club from a parent or grandparent and grew up watching matches on Sundays. Truth is, there is a lot more action in club football as they play often, and gives a lot more for people to discuss. This was also rooted in the old days when most players in the league were Greek. Pre-2004 our NT didn't give Greeks much to cheer about and before the internet it was pretty hard to keep tabs on international football. Even thought this point in my life, I feel a lot more connection with the Greek NT than any club, loyalty to a club is a personal sentiment and it is more than legitimate.

You are right but when we have talent out of the academy like Retros and keep him on the bench because Skibbe is chicken s%$#! and started Maniatis because he is safer, then it comes down to not playing your talent that is there.

Listen, I don't think it can even be argued how atrocious Fortounis was. So weak and impotent. Credit to Skibbe for starting defensive players all the way up the pitch to right wing. Poor baby Skibbe was afraid.

Ah yes you are right Euro 2012.

KPap was good too I think and Mitrgolou tried to create by himself with nothing to work with, so credit to him.

Sokratis is better than any CB you ever produced.

Look, loser, we won the group in 2010 over you. You finished 2nd to Iceland and you got lucky today with corrupt Fifa and injuries and shamefully lucky goals.

Manolas is great but papadopoulos did the job. The problem is our wings.

He's so bad. How can you not talk about players like Fetfa and even dare I say Ninis!! Are you telling me they would have been less sharp, less creative?

Yes, that is our coach's garbage. We were missing 3 of our stars and one because of corrupt Fifa.