Argy

Lazaro is no more than 5'10

Yea I meant to say Siovas.

I've seen every game while they were in their prime and our midfield did often get outplayed. This is going nowhere I really don't want to argue against 2 of the best ever Greek players here. Our best years were with Kara and Katsou, but, man, were some of those games hard to watch.

I would take KPap over him atm as well, but Retsos makes the squad every time, not only because he is good enough, but he is our brightest young player, a future leader on the NT, and he can play RB pretty well too. Besides, he's already better than Siopis at CB, and a case can be made over Lyko and Bakakis at RB (Skibbe seems to think so at least). Bottom line, Retsos is on this team every time.

I fully understand that this is an imperfcet science and the current objective formula that FIFA uses for their rankings. There are so many factors in play here that any formula would have holes in it. All I am saying is that quite obviously, despite the rankings, there are many teams in front of us that we are superior than.

You forgot Retsos as a sub.

Greece are better than many teams above them. They are still carrying the burden of the Euro 2016 campaign with them in the rankings. Their current level, despite the 4-1 loss to Croatia, is easily top 30. Note: There are some decent teams that are even worse-represented in the rankings. Japan (55), Korea (59), Russia (65), Slovenia (69) to name a few.

Also because we faced a very good team, we made two mind numbing mistakes around the box that led to goals, our midfield is below average, we had untimely injuries to Torosidis and Donis while our opponents were healthy, and Manolas was suspiciously suspended.

Skibbe's call-ups are atrocious, I truly hope he can take this opportunity to re-evaluate his roster. Although a part of me would like to see a changing of the guard, the other is reminded of the steps back we took when Santos left and we cannot afford to take that chance again at this point.

Greece is in the third division of the 2018-2019 edition. Matches will be played between 6 September 2018 and 20 November 2018, followed by a subsequent League C playoff between group winners that will award one ticket to EURO 2020. Greece are in the second of 4 pots for the group draw that will take place on 24 January, 2018. Pot 1: Hungary, Romania, Scotland, Slovenia Pot 2: Greece, Serbia, Albania, Norway Pot 3: Montenegro, Israel, Bulgaria, Finland Pot 4: Cyprus, Estonia, Lithuania

Karagounis and Katsouranis did often look average and have been outplayed. We have always had problems in the midfield, but we had decent wingplay from the fullbacks and wingers, which covered up our deficiencies. Karagounis was NT material, he played some great games, but memory is selective and we tend to only remember the good times. Bottom line, we need to see much more from our midfield. We have no presence, no confidence and no ability to possess the ball fluently. Did you see with what ease Croatia's midfield was controlling the game, winning balls, keeping possession? Fortounis is on the pitch and it seems like most of the time he's praying not to get a pass.

I am rooting for him, but he looks below average with Greece

They are worthy and I want to see them excel. They are probably talented enough, but they are consistently outclassed by opposing midfields, and look even worse because they have no presence around the box and seem to have no creative cell in their bodies.

Not easier at all, we will face competitive teams in some closely matched games with only 1 team qualifying out of 15. Unless we draw a group of death, then finishing top 2 in the qualifying group seems a much more probable feat.

Greece finished second in the group in spite of their attacking midfield, not because of it. Fortounis and Mantalos are nothing for the Greek NT.

I would still give him another shot with the NT if he plays for his club. Our attacking midfield with Fortounis and Mantalos is nonexistant. How much worse can it actually get? Edit: He only played once this year for his Israeli club...

They are realizing that international football is a good business but friendlies are not. At least now more profit can be made from ticket sales and TV rights. For fans more NT football (6 official matches next fall), competitive, meaningful games, televised matches; it's really a great thing. Now not only will teams have another path to the Euro Cup, but the joint format of the qualifiers and NL will make for some interesting scenarios in the final stretch.

Mods, Nations League needs its own thread.

We want to avoid sleepers like Bulgaria and Montenegro in Pot 3. We are lucky that we will avoid Serbia and even Albania. Besides the fact have been a competitive side lately, the rivalry atmosphere surrounding the matches will deflate any advantage we may have coming in.

I have a feeling that Retsos will overtake Papadopoulos in the CB pecking order by the time the NL comes around next year. I don't know how I feel about that, but I really like both players. I think we should play to our strength though and try out 3 CBs in the upcoming friendlies.

Yes I just read up on that.

It's too late now for Holebas. We needed him this campaign. He's gonna be 34 when the NL and ECQ start in 2018/2019 and will turn 36 in June 2020 when Euro will take place. That ship has sailed. Important thing now is to make sure to call-up/play the right players and not have any more issues like Holebas in the future.

Skibbe simply did not believe we could keep up with our opponent. Just like Greek managers have done before, panic before a big game and felt like our best shot was to go all out defence and hope for a counter attack or set piece. Loser mentality if there ever was one. I am watching Sweden now, like I've mentioned before, at best, our equal on paper, yet they come to play. Other big factors to why we looked so poor were lucky bounces and uncharacteristic mistakes, injury to Donis, horrible suspension to Manolas.

I agree with you 100% about loser mentality. We cannot go in hoping to park the bus and not lose, playing 8-9 defensive players in all positions. Look at Sweden, at best equal to us on paper, and they stand strong against Italy, not because they defended all game, but because they came to play with a winner's mentality. The only thing I don't fully agree with you on, bbaw, is the fact that we shouldn`t be hoping to avoid other big clubs. Greece is not a superpower, so they are allowed to care who they land. We will never be at the level of Germany and Spain, but that doesn't mean we cannot do damage in a tournament. I don't think, realistically, it is a loser's mentality to be happy being part of a tournament. Doesn't mean that you don't want to advance as far as you can, but, for most teams, it is an honor just to be there. It is very difficult to make it nowadays, and, barring a handful of teams, it is very difficult to qualify from Europe. Just look at Italy who are on the verge of missing out.

It'll very difficult, we better hope that we don't drop more in the rankings and fall to Pot 4 and have 3 formidable opponents to worry about. Good thing is top 2 teams make it automatically and there is also the Nations league route, which in all fairness will be extremely difficult to a) top the group b) win the nations league playoffs.