Bananas

No idea on this one. What I expect is for us to have a poor first half of the season and what I hope is that in the 2nd half of the season (along with solid transfers in the winter break - a man can dream) we kick into gear and be serious title contenders the following season. My only prediction is we are between -8 and -12 points behind Olympiacos but the winter break.

AEK supposedly signed quality players last season also and didn't make Europe so I'll wait to see on that one. Aris too early to call. In fact, everything is too early to call. The only thing we can say with certainty is once again we were not prepared properly for our UEFA qualifiers. One day (and it could even be this year) all of the Greek teams will fail to qualify for the group stages and then EPO might wake up to themselves. As for our transfers, none of them excite me but it is what it is. I don't think anyone on this forum is impressed by them. You keep flogging a dead horse. But your solution ... for Savvidis to leave is just plain bizarre. That's what I would want if I wanted to ruin PAOK. Give me a list of billionaires ready to part with their money that are willing to buy and fund PAOK and I am happy to contact them.

PAOK Talk, nice video. I agree with the general depressing mood. After all who can be optimistic given the result in Europe. Next time a few more drinks and some more slurring please. Also not enough profanity for my liking.

Oof we do like to make it hard for ourselves each year. What I don't understand is why we go in unprepared each year into these qualification games and just hope for the best. Would it kill EPO to use some common sense and bring forward the start of the league a month or so to give our teams a better chance. From a sporting perspective I'm not really fussed if we don't play in Europe each and every year. If we don't play once in every 5 years, "kai ti egine". But the financial hit ... that's where the real problem is. Anyway, time to hold our breath for one week and see what next week brings.

I miss the days of Mak on the right and Rodrigues on the left. Mak in some european games where teams don't just sit back scored some rippers. Thinking of Dortmand and Brondbe. I'd be happy if Narey is as good.

His stats were quite good last season. It's "only" the 2nd division in Germany but that is probably better than 80% of the Greek league.

Here's a tip - how about you do the work. Go and find out the truth whatever that is. Until told otherwise with credible evidence - not just kafeneio experts and guesses I'll stick with what's been reported.

He's definitely losing money. Every so often you'll see articles about a "shareholder capital increase" which is a fancy way of saying the club doesn't have enough money to break even and Savvidis has to top it up. Anyway, I count myself lucky a crazy Pontio did well for himself financially and happened to want to buy our team. If Savvidis was to leave the team we would see joy from the ultras and then a fast decline back to the bad old days. What you want ... just isn't realistic.

Not good - that is why it's so important the club becomes sustainable on its own. By sustainable I mean they have enough money to break even season and actually compete for the title. Can't expect for an owner to forever be forking out his own money indefinitely. It is just plain dangerous. Look what happened to Panathinaikos once the old guard of the Vardinogiannis clan retired and the new guard took over.

It is what it is. If that is what the club can spend due to FFP rules what can you do ? I think it's fair to say Savvidis wants to spend more but is restricted. He tried once and we got into trouble with the FFP rules. In principle I agree with the FFP concept but in practise it's a bit of a joke. Your best bet would be to look through the squad list and see what you can find on this forum, articles on the internet and even Football Manager player profiles to give you a rough idea. You'll probably be within +/- 10%. The tricky part is to decipher whether the figures quoted are including or excluding tax. The key thing for the club moving forward is to find a way to increase revenues that don't rely solely on UEFA prize money. I guess this is where the new stadium could come into it. It's due to be built sometime this century.

@PAOKSYDyou would think this information would be available to the public but it doesn't appear to be. I think the best you can do is guesstimate by patching together what you know of player contracts at the time. I remember doing this the year we won the title and I think the figure was around 20 million (not including tax but who pays tax in Greece anyway). So in summary, a painful process and at best a ball park figure.

@pash I guess time will tell. No I didn't think of them as upgrades before the season had started but it was fairly obvious early into the season. You make a valid point about the financial problems it created - not sure how we can seriously consider title challenges without raising the club's overall revenue. It's a conundrum. If you look at https://www.transfermarkt.com/paok-thessaloniki/alletransfers/verein/1091 and look at the Arrivals for each season starting from 21/22 and scroll down (22/23 we'll have to judge in a few months!) we have the following which I would consider "good" signings. 21/22: Oliveira (who is fast becoming the new El Khaddouri) and Kurtic. 20/21: Zivkovic, Schwab and I guess Tzolis. 19/20: Augusto. 18/19: Ingason. Swiderski was ok I guess. 17/18: El Khaddouri, Limnios, Vieirinha. And then we have the 16/17 season. 16/17: Prijovic, Varela, Djalma, Shakhov (agree he was probably the weakest of the lot), Matos, Biseswar, Crespo, Canas. Like wow, what a successful transfer season. I'm not arguing we should (or even can) do the same. Maybe it was just an anomoly. Maybe Michel actually has no idea and just got lucky. But there's a lot more average than good signings in recent years. Most of our transfers aren't "bad" in recent years, they're just meh. Sidenote: Canas was a huge upgrade and he solidified that oh so shaky midfield we had almost instantly. Crespo too who I always thought was better than Varela (except for the season we won the title when Varela was superb) was underappreciated. Onwards and upwards.

All of the signings seem a bit meh. The season Michel was TD nearly every player he brought in was a clear upgrade. This bunch ... I dunno. Smart move from the club selling Colak without having a replacement now that Oliveira is injured. Feeling positive ha ha.

Yes I'm worried about this position too. Too many players described as a "number 10" but they are anything but. This is why I am loathe to get rid of Biseswar (and Crespo for that matter). It's not that they shouldn't be replaced - yes they are too old and can't keep up anymore. It's can we replace them ? We're not exactly the most attractive club in the world. So until we do find adequate replacements, I'd like to hang on to them ... just in case.

They haven't discovered leather yet.

Paschalakis I was surprised he is leaving as his form has really improved and he is "good enough" right now unless we can't find better which is easier said than done. I didn't realise the club had made him an offer that offended his ego. Surely he wasn't asking 1 million ? Even on his current contract - I think it's 600K or so - he is very well paid. I would offer him half that. Varela not much to say. It's time to go. Schwab - I hope he stays. Crespo - I hope he stays. Crespo is much better than Mihaj. If Mihaj want to take the spot than my advice is play better. Vieirinha, Biseswar - I hope they stay. They still have much to offer if used correctly. Sidclay, Akpom - nothing special really. Very replaceable. Mitrita - when he's on he's on. But he's not always on and his wages are over 1 million in the US. I guess he won't be staying. Sastre - dunno. He seems like 1/4 of a Matos.

I didn't realise Limnios was used as a LW in Holland. With his time with us he was solely used on the RW and I just assumed he wasn't suitable for the left. All the more reason to sign him. 😀

It's a heartache, nothing but a heartache.

If you think Limnios is not good enough for PAOK you guys are crazy ha ha. What if Zivkovic is out of form or injured, are we going to rely on Jaba ? Limnios is a work horse who helps defend and wears down his opponent - that's his style (think Campos). He's the anti Rodrigues so to speak. He'd be a good signing. Not awesome, not a "bam" but definitely solid.

Why wouldn't we extend Schwab's contract ? He was very good for us in the first half of the season and is a really good player to have as a rotation option.

Thing is unless you're there watching these kids in training etc. it's too difficult for us to judge the next up and comer. I was certain Mystakidis would become a first team player and Giannoulis pfft he was *never* going to make it. So what do I know. Likewise with Lyraztsis. I thought he was just too physically weak for us and wondered why we hadn't gotten rid of him and all of a sudden this season he's bloomed. Hopefully he continues improving.

Hmmm, I'd take Limnios on loan in a heartbeat (assuming he's interested). He's played all season in Holland so he's match fit. He's got "run" which we're lacking and we also need a proper winger out on the right. He would definitely give us options in terms of rotation. If we can get better cool, but he wouldn't be a bad option me thinks.

Well, that's how it goes if you want to bring up players from the youth. My attitude is if Lucescu didn't see something in the kid then he wouldn't throw him in. And against Olympiakos in Athens no doubt. All the team can do is give them opportunities and then it's up to the player to seize it. Do you want to train hard or go to the barakia and post pics on facebook.

Sounds about right. I guess the papers have to create drama if none exists. Either way, nothing to see here.

Yep Lucescu out (I heard it from a reliable source at the kafeneio) and we'll be getting Ancelotti to replace him.