Batigol Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 And I say to you =================> Santos can not develop this team. Santos can not bring us where we want to be. But the team's organisation and development is a matter of the coach.... and this coach Santos can't develop a strong, dominant team. Really? What resources has he had to work with? Plus, did any coach this year in the Greek league do all of the things you mentioned a coach needs to do? Play with a certain organization? A certain culture? etc.... I would say to you a big emphatic: No. No one coach stood out this year. If anything, they were all massive disappointments. From the domestic to the foreign coaches. This entire season blew chunks in terms of quality football - both in the A' Ethniki to CL and UEFA. Now is this all due to a coach? Not entirely. I think player habits/mentality has a great deal to do with it as well. I'm not trying to absolve Santos of any blame here. Clearly, the guy has some issues with the current club and player roster. But to discredit him as being a bad coach who has totally lost the plot wouldn't be fair. Above all, Demi cannot be absolved of all blame. After all, he brought him here didn't he? You want a strong, dominant team Nightsurfer? I think you're looking in the wrong league. I would think that with your 'eye', you would have been able to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsurfer Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 1. How many games did you see of AEK this year. I mean entire games. 2. Which ones 3. PAO has a good organisation on the constructive level. This in 2006. They did not loose the points in 2006 but in 2005. Malezani has done a great job with young players... and he left a young team (greek players) , good worked, well organised for the future. If PAO keeps that roster and put 2-3 reinforcements they would be very good again. But they should have kept Malezani. He would have brought PAO to higher levels. Is that what I believe according what I saw seeing PAO playing in 2006.... I repeat in 2006 Olympiakos had a very good offensive organisation as well. 5. Now come back which games you saw (entirely) of AEK this year... and I will tell you what kind of resources he had.... Till then, hasta luego muchacho............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsurfer Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 You want a strong, dominant team Nightsurfer? I think you're looking in the wrong league. I would think that with your 'eye', you would have been able to see that. What are you talking about bude ? Have you thought about it or are you telling us jokes (not to use other primitive words) a 4th division, a 3th divison, a 6th division team in Thailand in Scotland in Ouagadougou or in Spain... can play dominant within his division. A 4th division team can be dominant within that division.... if the same team plays 3 division higher..(in his country) so in 99 % ... they won't dominate but will dominated A dominant play is not a matter of country or league buddy......... This is footbal not a music orchestra... You play as dominant as your opponents lets you play.... Is not a queston of League buddy.... So don't tell me pinocolades.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batigol Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 I see. So in order to properly evaluate the state of a team, the league and their coaches you need to know how many AEK games I have seen...in their entirety of course. Well given my location in the world and availabilty of games over the satellite dish I can't say that I have seen the vast majority of matches that AEK have played this year. I can only watch what is presented to me. That doesn't however, take away from the fact that I have viewpoints/opinions and questions concerning the overall state of football in Greece. To say not having seen full matches in their entirety precludes me from making any opinions on a club or the state of a game basically invalidates the opinions of the vast majority of members that are on this forum from North America and Australia. Hmmm...I'm not sure how many people are going to agree with you on that one. After all, if ERT doesn't show the match, it doesn't mean I can't make conclusions on a match based on news reports from the internet, TV or newspapers. Ultimately, what difference does the number of matches and which ones I have seen make to this debate? I simply refuted your point and asked some questions. Questions you still haven't answered because you want to know how many games I've seen. I don't get it. Insofar as PAO is concerned, if they lost all of their points (as you put it) in 2005 and not 2006, who was their coach in 2005? Wasn't it Malezani? Did a new year all of a sudden bring with it a sense of organization? Where was that organization when they were playing the CL or in the big matches against Oly? So Olympiakos has good offensive organization eh? 3-1 loss to Rosenborg (Superpower Norwegian team with a budget similar to my salary...which BTW is brutally low) 2-1 loss to Real (let's not get into the state of Real) 4-1 loss to Lyon 3-2 loss to Levadeiakos this past weekend Such a well organized offensive club and yet the defensive capabilities of swiss cheese. Look in the end I'm not necessarily disagreeing with Santos being turfed. I just think that his situation...and by extension AEK's...is a reflection of the health of the league as a whole. Comprende amigo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsurfer Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Polla logia ine Ftoxia file... Se rotixa posa paixnidia ides.. giati ean ides 1 - 2 h kanena den mboris na milisis gia kati.... oute thelo na diatheso ton kairo mou gia na miliso me enan ... pou den 3eri ... giati den ide... simply and easy Gia ton Malezani... Otan vasis mesa neous kai sou efige h misi omada xriasese xrono... gia afto 2005 / 2006 Kai to dentro gia na vgali mila xriasete xrono Den mboris na pis oth o Olympiakos den exi kali anaptixi... min kitasis to ti epexe sthn Livadia... Kai sto megalitero kommati pou se erotisa... gia to "Domination" apofiges na milises Entaxi den exo kairo gia pinocolades........... Gia sou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damianos Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Ok, i think people are getting a bit side tracked here. We must remember (crossing fingers for this weekend) that: AEK is 2nd in the league (= CL Qualification) AEK is in the Greek Cup Ok, AEK has not played the best football this season, goals mainly from set pieces, last minute winners, no orginisation to our game. However, credit where credit is due. If i was told AEK would make the Greek Cup final and be 2nd in the league at the start of the season, i would have taken it, no worries. So, credit to Santos for acheiving these two things. However, i to do not agree with his policies on who he plays and who they have signed. Emerson, however good he is, is 34, non Greek, and must be described as a bandaid. Why buy Kapentanos and not play him?? Kone?? Anyways, although we dont play the most attractive football and play older players, which will not cut it in Europe, beggers cant be choosers!! A few seasons ago we were headed for Division 4. Now we are headed for CL Ql. A big turn around in 2 seasons. So Santos is probably not the right man for the job, and he possibly will go in the summer, but, i think we should not be so hard on him. He has got us to 2nd, which could potentially mean CL and money to buy some new young players, that really have to be played!!! Anyway, as an AEK supporter, i am very satisfied with the FINAL RESULT, im not saying i agree how we got there, but at this point in time i dont think it really matters. Next season, with some more $$, possibly a new coach and some new young players we can start playing with some creative freedom, with youngsters and start a new trend in Greek Football. :tup: LONG LIVE AEK :tup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsurfer Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Damianos, you have valid points...... From beginning I would like to draw the attention to my previous posts, that they meant as an Outlook for the future: In any case, we should not get blind to some facts: Santos is earning over ? 500.000, a year (You can find many good coaches with that money) 1. If we can get the 2nd place, so Santos reached the main goal 2. The organisation on the field, the players chosen to play, .... and the weird transfer policy does not promise something good for future. Under the condition that the image is true, that he is giving the final ok.. for the transfers 3. What when Iraklis would not have beaten PAO ? What then ? How would some of you argumentate. Na min stolisoume ton dentro me xena kosmimata.... Is it Santos' merits that Iraklis beat PAO ? 4. The Cup . We have beaten Giannena away 3 : 0 . Our best game in the Cup. A third division team. Then again an other 3rd Division Team. We draw at home 1 : 1 and away 1:1 (ok 2 clear handpenalties have not been given, but that's not the point. The point is that against a 3rd Division Club like Ethnikos... you could not see a difference on the field in vue of organisation and dominance on the field.... at the end, we passed by Penalty shoots. Against another 3rd Division team Argotikos Asteras.... of 4 half times we could dominate and take the advantage only in one half time. We lost the 2nd game without showing any superioty of class on the field. So we should NOT bulge our chest with the Greek Cup....... 5. When you show lack of offensive organisation and capability. When you show no sign of imagination... and you let play game for game the same players, who underperform massively and show us the same crap Sunday for Sunday offensively ..... but you have in your roster... the best young player of his generation ..and Greece's biggest talent (offensively and constructively with a fine technic) : Kone (These are the words of his National Coach - Nioplas) But you don't give him...not even one minute of play - So you take a very extreme position.... 6. When you let play only for 6-7 games the whole saison .... you best striker Venglisky....although you have massive problems in the offense the whole saison.... but you change nothing... so again you take an extreme position... 7. When you have problems on the backs..... And you have Bourbos in your roster...another young national player, who performed well last Saison.... but you don't give him ...not even one minute of play...... only because he told to the journalist in the beginning of the saison what Santos told during training ...." Simera den kimithika kala kai exo ta nevra mou ".......... So again you take an extreme position to the expenses of team performance for personal reasons........ An uncomprehensible position.... 8. With over ? 500.000, / year , you can expect an other promise for the future.... PS: In previous posts somebody who wanted to talk about pinocolades...asked me about resources..... he has now above a part of the answer - Reffering to Resources.... What Resources he got.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damianos Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 I would have to agree with that nightsurfer, that is pretty much how it is. About playing young players like kone and bourbas, its all the same throughout Greece. Supporters dont put up with mediocrity, so coaches dont play young players to get results. Look what happened at PAO, he started to play some young Greek players and got kicked out because they are not winning every game. Oh well, AEK arent there yet anyway, i hope they beat Xanthi and can make CL. Football is football, you never know. Look at Artmedia Bratislava, they put up a good fight in all games and almost qualified for the 2nd stage. As for the Greek Cup games, we did all we had to do, maybe lack of motivation, or Santos made tooo many chances so it disrupted the team. Put one or two new faces in so they can all gel. Oh well, as far as results go im not complaining, how we got there is another story. :tup: LONG LIVE AEK :tup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aekrossoponti Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 @nightsurfer: you have some good points. but: -we are not going to get a coach better than santos, because they won t come to greece. he does make many mistakes. the bourbos thing is something i don t understand as well. same goes for kiriakidis. -kone is 17!!! he is still very young and probably not ready physically for a ethniki. no matter what people say he is not messi!! or else he wouldn t be with aek :-) - venglinsky has many "issues": he is constantly sick or injured- mentally and physically..doesnt speak any language except russian. so...yes great player but never seemed to fit the team..dystixos..its not all santos... - maybe next year some youngsters can mak their mark.. don t forget, tziolis, mantzios were regulars in the uefa cup side panionios, darlas played regular b ethniki...our young players are 2 years younger and have never played pro football... - we need serious metagraphes to stand a chance at cl qualification!! you are right the cup was dorean.. we didn t play a single a ethniki team!!! and mostly gamma teams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsurfer Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Concerning Kone: It would not harm him to play every 2nd game 15 minutes... , so you prepare him for the future and give him the feeling of reality....and time to adapt to the physical game... Many young talents are playing in European Leagues, which have much higher rythm and intensity...than "our" League Concerning Venglisky: He was only put in 2 games in to his position against PAO and Olympiakos.... With PAO Lakis as twin (not the best one at that position). Nevertheless Venglisky showed his big class against a strong team.... even though he had lack of playing time (mostly because Santos is not using him ....not because he is sick) Also against Olympiakos he has shown his class...and was running up and down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsurfer Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Okay Batigoal Did you see today AEK of Ferrer - Benfica of Santos 3 : 1 AEK with quite the same team like last year but different football Benfica was playing like AEK last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsurfer Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 And I say to you =================> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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