The Real Problem with the ethniki

[IRAKLIS]

Well guy's looks like it is down to the wire yet again, as usual Greece prepares to stare elemination in the face and try to prevail. I feel that the true problem with our ethniki scince our gory days of 2004 and in the past is our inability to step it up when it count's. Unfortunately if you are a champion in any sport you will always find a way to put games away. Now some of you may get a stiff back from that comment however let's look at the facts which can be found in big games which we have blown,

1) Albania vs Greece ( if you watched the game you will remember when our ethniki was shitting its pants during the naitonal anthem and then played like s%$#! )

2)Turkey vs Greece, Greece vs Turkey ( two crucial games which we failed to get 3 points out of, including a disgraceful first half in istanbul)

3) Ukraine vs Greece ( in kiev we were almost finished for good if were not for the brilliance of Vassilis Tsiartas..GOD I MISS HIM)

4) Greece vs Ukraine ( although we played a very good match, we did not win... all the big teams in europe real, man u , chelsea, and even brazil who are South American find a way to win and score even if they are playing like ass)

5) off topic but Russia vs Greece ( the only game in euro 2004 we planned on winning Dellas even stated it in his himerologio, plus it was must win to go to the next round... we s%$#! the bed that time too)

Now don't get me wrong im not saying we are a bad team, but we are not clutch one that is for sure. Basically the real problem as I reiterated earlier in the post is our inability to win in crucial games. However this is not to say Denmark may not choke either!!! Denmark is playing at home, and I feel there is more pressure on Denmark than us, this is becuase Denmark is a regular on the world stage. If this happens then we have everything to play for and judging by the over confidence in thier statements this maybe a mask to hide thier true feelings ( a confident team will never doubt the abilities of their opponent).

The best thing about this game though is that Dellas is back and although he may not play, just being their is a major psychological boost which the players need. AND FINALLY THAT PIECE OF s%$#! AXRISTEAS will not play, he single handedly has thrown our offense into shambles, Im sick of hearing all these un-educated soccer analysts in here talk about how bad Vryzas. So I thought I would do a litlle Vryzas vs Charisteas comparison

Charisteas Pros

-Amazing Heading

-Fast

-Long legs to tap in dirty scrums in the box

-decent finish

Chariteas Cons

-bench warmer on every team but Aris

-is lazy

-does not move off the ball

-terible lateral movement

-does not make diagonal runs

- terrible shot

-horrid first touch

-bad passer

-passes to late

- cannot play with his back to the net to hold up the ball and keep the form of the midfield and give the pass to the window man( person making run up the field who is open on the wing to recive the ball from the striker, a stragtegy started by the dutch)

-does not come to the ball

-HE IS A HERO... and he feels he is a hero there fore he dosent need to try cause we were all to busy kissing his ass cuase after his flukey goals in euro cup ( vs Spain he was lucky to get the shot off scored on crap angle and ball was not placed at all, he shot at cassilias and it bounced through his legs. 2 vs France very nice strong header however he was not marked both defenders who were in front of him 3. vs Portugal mix up with Ricardo and his 2 CD allowed him to head the ball down the middle which any s%$#! goalie could catch if the 2 defenders did not mix up ricardo he would have saved that weak header)

Vryzas

Pros

- in his day he played in far more competitve leagues Greek, Italy, Spain

-played regularly

-scored more goals than charisteas even if vryzas rode pine

-good first touch

-good heading

-solid finisher

- can create good plays

- does one touch passing

-can run at defenders

- can cross

- play with his back to the net

-runs his balls off both on and off the ball even at the age of 32!!!!! charisteas should be runnign 10x more than vryzas

-is not a vendeta and even on a bad day does everything he can

cons

-is old

-cannot play for a whole game

-right now is riding pine BUT SO IS ANGELO (vryzas rides pine and he is 32 charisteas is 24)

- gets frustrated

- does not stay on his feet very well

I know im sounding very anti-Hellas I have been in this forum for a very long time i do not post much, I hope i didnt offend anyone, I LOVE GREECE AND I WILL ALWAYS STAND BY THERE SIDE I AM JUST A REALIST

WE NEED TO PLAY LIKE CHAMPIONS TO TAKE DENMARK AND WE MUST FEEL LIKE CHAMPIONS we need to score and we need Denmark to get nervouse

thankyou for your time Comments are welcome! and remeber im not saying Greece is a bad team im saying Greece is not a clutch team

Good luck ellathara

[evalagoal]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAXXXXXXXXX

Where can someone begin... As I was reading your post there's several things that I agree and some that I don't.

The bottom line my friend is that we (The Greek National Team) needs to start looking at the future...... PERIOD

All the major national teams go through this stage. When France won the WC in 94 they didn't do anything after that and look at them now..... They are struggling to get to the 2006 WC. It's something that Otto and EPO need to work on as a whole.

Not to change the subject, but did anyone watch the U-17 World Cup???? Was anyone surprised to see Mexico win it? Was anyone surprised to see Holland, Brazil, the US or even Turkey make it past the group stages?? I'm not surprised becasue they focus merly on the YOUTH! That's the soccer of the future the YOUTH...

:tup: :gr: :tup: :gr:

[loup]

I try to be supportive - but please - not a clutch team - not a clutch team - not a clutch team ???????????

What???????

What???????

vs. Ukraine in EURO qualifier in the final minutes

vs. NIre in EURO qualifying - final minute

every knockout game in the EURO tourney

and

vs. KAZ in th final final final final seconds

not clutch??????

maybe not too imaginative

maybe not too dangerous

maybe not too talented

but definately clutch

not a doubt

[IRAKLIS]

For those of you who are not familiar the term "clutch team", it deals with the characteristic a team poses to get the wins they need when it is absolutely necessary no matter what the circumstance. For example let's say a team has half of their starting 11 injured and are in a must win situtation in a play off match and they still manage to win. That team would be categorized as a Clutch team, even though they had the all the cards stacked against them they still rose to the occasion.

That is just a basic defenition of what it would mean to be a clutch team for those who are not familiar with the term.

ps- any comments on my post now in case ppl did not understand what i meant

cheers

[IRAKLIS]

Loup you do raise a good argument when you refered to the victories in those games. The one which did stand out most was with the Ukraine. However, not being able to score against Northern Ireland and put them away 3-0 at home, too me is not a indicator of a team which can win when they have too. And I am sorry my freind but Norhter Ireland is a horrible team and beating them 1-0 on a penalty which the goalie almost saved is not much to be proud of. In addition, taking pride in a 2-1 win over Kazakstan where we looked like the joke of the universe and almost tied one of the worst possible teams in the world is not very representative of a clutch team nor should that peformance be praised.

In a topic of discussion like this I feel it is best we stick to games where the opponnents were actually good or mediocre. Teams that are ranked so low in fifa that you have scroll down 10 pages just to find them on the list should not be regarded as big wins, even though they were under stressful circumstances. These are teams which Greece should be ripping appart and nor should they be even be up for discussion. I am pretty sure Brazilian, English, or Dutch fans would not be very impressed if they struggled and almost tied or lost to teams such as Norther Ireland or Kazakistan.

In reagards to your comment on the Euro 2004 wins we had in the final stages, although they were excellent and very well played. The pressure was not on Greece and correct me if I am wrong but an italian friend of mine was watching the final on TLN and he said that before the match Karagounis even stated him self that it was "portugals tournament, in portugal, on their home turf, we have nothing to lose we are already heros back home, it is their trophy to win "

Any remarks? Do you feel ( the general public) that Greece is team which can win under difficult terms against good teams? I believe are not a team capable of such and it is a major problem which has pushed us back many years now. What do you think?

cheers

[IRAKLIS]

Here are more crucial games we have blown in the past

wcq 2002 Greece vs Germany

Albania vs Greece

Greece vs England

Euro 2000 qualifying

Greece vs Latvia

Slovenia vs Greece

Wcq 1998

Greece vs Denmark

Greece vs Croatia

Although we have progressed greatly as a team, this is a reccuring trend where we do blow games when the pressure is really on us not when we are underdogs

[JohnnyTheGreek]

I agree with Iraklis nearly 100%. I've really got it in for Charisteas because the guy is just a cherry picker.

The header against France in the Euro was basically a practice tap-in; there was nobody on him to screw him up. Against Portugal, that was just ugly. I can't believe somebody called him FAST. To be a good striker you need to put the ball in the net when the chance is there, and you need to do it basically every time. But a good striker also allows for the bad pass, and hustles to greet it, even if he's suddenly put out of good striking position.

I've never seen Charisteas hustle for ANYTHING. If it ain't aimed at a part of his body, you think he's gonna run for a goal? For Christ's sake, he's only 24 years old. What's he gonna be like in 6 years?

Vryzas is just too old. Both him and Tsiartas shouldn't be left on the field for more than 15 minutes at a time, both near the end. I do agree that Tsiartas is an overrated @$$hole, but he's an arse with a magical left foot, and that's the only reason he ever made the national team. But Zagorakis can take a pretty decent free kick as well, so we're not hurting in that department.

Let's face facts, pedia... we rode the crest of luck as far as we could, management took it a little further, and we had a monster of a tournament last year. If Greece can't make it to the World Cup, I would rather have Turkey go with the Ukraine rather than Denmark. So let's hope either of us make it.

[miko]

I agrre with all that has been stated. I would like to add that Greece is in serious need of a striker who is capable of creating his own chances. Aside form Nikolaidis, we have yet to produce a striker who is capable of taking on defenders and making something from nothing. If this type of player was available, it would certainly complement the work of Vryzas

[zorbas]

I agree with some of what you are saying but I disagree with the following. You are correct Greece has lost many games that we should have won or tied examples are against Albania and versus Ukraine in Greece. These are two games that would most certainly have at the very least guaranteed us a second place position. But what we must also remember that Greece also plays their best against teams that are considered better then them. In our group there have been only two teams that Greece has feared Turkey and Denmark. Against Denmark in Greece we probably played one of our best games of the qualifiers. The team came together stepped up and played a great game. I missed the the first game against Turkey in Athens but in Constantinople we certainly came together and played hard however luck was not on our side and frankly hasn't been on our side (Ukraine in Greece). Greece will never play well in games that don't count (confederations cup, friendlies) or against opponents that we consider inferior (Kazakastan, Albania, Russia). But place a team considered to be stronger in front of us ( Spain, Portugal, France, Chech Republic, or Denmark) then Greece comes out to play and plays as a team. Greece never has been considered to have the most talented players but what we do have is big hearts. If Greece comes into this game ready to play, playing as a team, and most of all having their hearts in the game then Vikings, Persians and Turks alike, start trembling because the fight has begun and Greece will not stop until the last man has left the battlefield. So Greeks it is time to unite and have hope. We need to start talking about how we can beat Denmark and send positive vibes to the team. When we went to Portugal winning the cup was only a dream but as Greeks we believed in the dream and cheered our team on. We know what our team is capable of but we must believe in the them and God willing we will win. The pirates are now on their way to Denmark. Zito Hellas! :box:

[AEKGATE21]

One person stated in his post that Greece losses the games which matter the most, crunch games, Dont you think we are due for a win now, we cant lose them all ;)

[loup]

I think when we talk about the Ethniki we must talk about pre and post Otto.

The omatha was not clutch prior to Otto's reign - no doubt about that - goal posts last minute goals against etc. But since Otto has come in I think we have a team of character which is created by feeding off the character of the big players Dellas, Zagorakis (and I would have to say even Vryzas) This is a tough and I think clutch team.

Teams lose games - that is that - Englans losing to NIre - Portugal drawing Leichenstien and don't forget Turkey drew Georgia at home

re. luck in EURO - there is no luck boys - there is preperation and hustle and talent - luck is reserved for the lottery and weather. And there was definately no luck in EURO - no posts saving our arses no fluky goals - we outplayed every team we matched up aginst - except Russia for 20 minutes -

As far as the forwards go - I think Charisteas has been out of form for a while - but has looked good as of late - and I wish he was going to play - Vryzas is Vryzas I always think of his as a total rat. I say that in a positive way he jumps on opportunities when they emerge - that is how he has always played - unfortunately I'm not sure he remebers how to score

So who is up front fo the game vs Denmark? If we go with 4 backs - I think our best team has both Katsouranis and Basinas on it with Zagrakis and Karagounis - so I would push Stelios further up with Lybe - or Gekas - or Mantsios or Paps - whoever Otto has a feeling will produce on Satruday

Sikose to :gr:

[NYC_Olympiakos]

look i agree with all of u that the Ethinki has a lot of problems

but this not the time to point it out

fact is we control our own destiny i don't know how many times i can say that over and over

we are alive and well

i mean will look to the future when we are mathematically eliminated

if we look past this game then forget about soccer till European qualification

fact is lets all stand together and will our team to win and pray for everything to go right for us

maybe the ball will bounce just right for us

Ellas#1

[Apollo]

Guys, its crunch time again...just as it was in the fields of Portugal. We are the underdogs once more...and that is just fine with me! Under Otto, we played soccer with German efficiency. In the upcoming game, I hope and pray that we will rediscover it. Otherwise, this game will be lost.

Several players must absolutely improve their performance by at least 50%, namely, Seitaridi, Karagounis, Kapsis and especially Basinas. I dont think Otto will risk putting Dellas in, who is not game fit. I'd like to see Kiriakos in, but he seems at times careless and we cannot afford to make silly mistakes. But how will we close down Gravensen and Rommendahl??? That is the question. I hope that Otto finds the right answer.

As for Haristeas, I think if he doesnt play it might be better for us. He scores with his head, and now that he injured his head, he will less likely use it to score with.

And with the tall Dannes, that option is not available to us in this game.

With Vikings, we should play down low where they are more vulnerable.

I think we have a good midfield and also have decent strikers in Lymberopoulos, Salpiggidis and the young Mantzios. Now, how to pair them is the difficult task of the coach!

At the latest press conference, Otto said that a tie will also suit us, but I would like to know just how so?? Does he really think that Albania will not give away the game to Turkey??? After what has happened with Ukraine, that is a little puzzling to me. Any thoughts.....Thanks

ELLADA PANTA ELLADA

:gr:

Apollo

:box:

[Guest geok]

APOLLO, KALA TA LES.

NOMIZW OTI PREPEI NA PAI3OUME THN MPALA KATW KAI GRHGORA, OXI SENTRES. NOMIZW OTI SE AYTO TO STYL PAIXNIDIOY TAIRIAZEI PAPADOPOYLOS/SALPIGIDDIS GIATI EINAI GRHGOROI, AKOMH KAI O GEKAS KANEI. KAI O LYMPEROPOYLOS MPOREI NA PAI3EI ELEY8EROS PISW APO TON TELEYTAIO EPI8ETIKO. EXEI KAI TI MPALIA, EINAI KALOS ME THN MPALA KATW, KALOS STO SOYT-OLA TA EXEI.

NOMIZW OTI O BRYZAS EINAI POLY ARGOS PLEON GIA NA PAI3EI. 8ELOYME KALES MPALIES KAI GRHGOROYS MPROSTA, ARA O PAPADOPOYLOS PREPEI NA PAI3EI KATA TH GNWMH MOY, H TOYLAXISTON KAPOIOS GRHGOROS.

STO KENTRO, ZAGORAKIS, KARAGOYNIS, STELIOS KAI NOMIZW KATSOYRANHS :blink: GIATI PREPEI NA TOYS KRATHSOYME STO KENTRO (XREIAZOMASTE KALO AMYNTIKO HALF). MARAKI NA HTAN SE TOP FORMA KAI O BASINAS ALLA EINAI EKTOS DRASHS POLLOYS MHNES. KRIMA GIATI EINAI POLY MEGALOS PAIXTHS...

STHN AMYNA: BLEPW OTI O KAPSIS EXEI ANAKAMPSEI KAI AYTO EINAI KALO GIATI MPOREI NA PAEI ARISTERA KAI NA KALYPSEI TO KENO TOY FYSSA, TO OPOIO EINAI MEGALO KENO. DE3IA FYSIKA O SEITARIDIS.

STO KENTRO PREPEI NA EXOUME PSILO PAIXTH, ARA SIGOYRA O KYRIAKOS PREPEI NA EINAI STHN AMYNA. H TELEYTAIA 8ESH (MPROSTA APO TON ANTWNH) EINAI MYSTHRIO: DELLAS? DEN 3ERW, ISWS DEN 8A EPREPE, EINAI ARGOS KAI EXEI NA PAI3EI KAI POLY KAIRO. DEN MPORW NA 3ERW TI 8A APOFASISEI O OTTO. DYSKOLH H APOFASH.. :la:

OSO GIA TO PAIXNIDI: ME SYNTAGH PORTOGALIAS NA PAI3OUME: DHLADH GERA STHN AMYNA, XWRO STOYS DANOUS KAI ANTEPI8ESEIS FARMAKI. ETSI EXOYME ELPIDA. NA MHN BGOYME MPROSTA ALLA NA KRATHSOYME DYNAMEIS. ME APODWSH OMOIA ME PORTOGALIA TOYS PERNAME TOYS DANOYS. :gr:

NA MHN ME PARE3HGHSETE KAI DEN EIMAI TRELOS, ALLA TO PAIXNIDI ME TOYS DANOUS EINAI PIO "EYKOLO" GIA MAS APO OTI ME TO KAZAKSTAN! :blink:

O LOGOS EINAI OTI DEN EIMASTE KALOI STO NA PIEZOUME EPI8ETIKA, ENW EIMASTE ISWS OI KALYTEROI STON KOSMO STO AMYNTIKO PAIXNIDI. ANTE LOIPON 8ELW AISIODO3IA GIA AYRIO KAI NA DEITE OTI 8A PANE KALA TA PRAGMATA :tup:

ME 8ELHSH KAI PSYXH 8A TOYS PERASOYME :gr: :gr: !!!!!