Panos13 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Ok, now that a couple of day have passed and we have had time to hear everything and think over everything, I have a few things to say and I ask everyone would contribute to this topic in a civilised way. I say a few things then I have a few questions. Feel free to answer them Q1: If what happened at OAKA with Kotsios had happened at Karaiskaki with a player from Oly, would the referee have given a red card to the Oly player? Q2: If the game was at Karaiskaki and two Oly players were sent off and the ref refused to give two handballs and other decisions to Oly, would the fans allow the game to finish? How would have the gavro media reacted? Q3: Over the year, how many Oly players have gotten red cards for doing similar fouls to Kotsios? How many times have Georgatos and Anatolakis been sent off for worse fouls? Didn’t Georgatos try to break Kyriakos’ legs two years ago? What did he get? Morris was sent off correctly and he should be punished for throwing his shirt at the referee. Q4: How many games was Nikopolides punished for after he threw his gloves at the ipopti gramon last year at xanthi? I accept that the law of the game should be applied always but why is it never applied equally? Which brings me to the gavromafia issue. For me after the Oly vs Xanthi game last year when Oly players behaved like spoilt brats and threw their toys out of the pram, something serious changed. The referee Blathras was forced to stop refereeing because some organised gang of Oly fans threatened to kill his family and destroyed his brother’s business. If you know the meaning of mafia and how they work you will know exactly what I mean. Who knifed the journalist Phillipos Syrigos because he criticised Kokalis and the way he got Karaiskaki? After the threats the referees have received, how many of them would dare give Oly players a red card or a penalty against them, specially in the big games? So who is responsible for all this? For me it’s the work of organised gangs which I call Gavromafia. Anyway, I like a civilised discussion and answer to my questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montreal_Thrillos Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 As much as I want to discuss this.. im just goign to say 1 thing! Stop it man you lost. how can u completely ingore what happens on the field withyour players as a major reason y u lost the game and insist the refs cost it for you goes beyond comprehension ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos13 Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 Thanks for not answering the question I asked about Karaiskaki and what your fans would have done if the red cards happened to Oly players at Karaiskaki, or about Blathras and the death threats and the melos throwing his gloves at the referee etc.... I have no problem with losing as long as I know the rules are applied to everybody equally. But clearly they are not. Yu can avoid them as you like too, it won;t change the fact that a gavromafia exists which threatens referees and referees are afraid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montreal_Thrillos Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Thanks for not answering the question I asked about Karaiskaki and what your fans would have done if the red cards happened to Oly players at Karaiskaki, or about Blathras and the death threats and the melos throwing his gloves at the referee etc.... I have no problem with losing as long as I know the rules are applied to everybody equally. But clearly they are not. Yu can avoid them as you like too, it won;t change the fact that a gavromafia exists which threatens referees and referees are afraid of. Im welcome to receive the same punishment had these incedents happened at karaiskaskiand if u think our situation with the refs is bad,,, go see in italy and how fair the refs are there ! PS: were not the only ones that gets refs help...... so do you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOLLYWOOD Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 it wasnt Kyriakos's leg it was paps.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montreal_Thrillos Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Ok, now that a couple of day have passed and we have had time to hear everything and think over everything, I have a few things to say and I ask everyone would contribute to this topic in a civilised way. I say a few things then I have a few questions. Feel free to answer them Q1: If what happened at OAKA with Kotsios had happened at Karaiskaki with a player from Oly, would the referee have given a red card to the Oly player? Q2: If the game was at Karaiskaki and two Oly players were sent off and the ref refused to give two handballs and other decisions to Oly, would the fans allow the game to finish? How would have the gavro media reacted? Q3: Over the year, how many Oly players have gotten red cards for doing similar fouls to Kotsios? How many times have Georgatos and Anatolakis been sent off for worse fouls? Didn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CH-Thrylos Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Q1: maybe, maybe not. i read a nice article about the whole story in ta nea, where kofinas wrote, that if this would have happened in leoforos he might have given kotsios just a yellow card. i dont remember it correctly but there was written, that kostios had tried to do the same thing some moments earlier. but since the the linesman told briakos what happened, and to me it looked also like kotsios wanted to hit okkas, a red card can be given in this situation. but if they would give this in karaiskaki? i dont know. since the fans are closer to the field too i could imagine that a ref would just give a yellow card. Q2: first of all, the one with kostoulas wasnt a handball imo. the one of georgatos should have been a yellow card. but if the ref would have sent two players off i dont think that the derby would have finished calmly. unfortunately there are lots of fans of our club who might love osfp more than anything else. but as big as their love to the club is, as small is their brain. most probably the stadium would have turned into hell. and the media would have written more or less the same stuff like the green papers wrote after the match. and additionally, oaka is not leoforos, where the people forget to lock the doors so that the fans cant enter the stadium. ;) Q3: i dont really remember many players being sent off. sometimes georgatos, anatolakis get the yellow card. i havent seen the match with georgatos attack on papadopoulos, so i cant judge that. but to be honest, anatolakis might have been a ksilokopos in the past, but he has become better and doesnt make this kind of fouls that often anymore. about georgatos you might have read another post of mine, where i wrote that i would like to see him being sent off a few times, so that he learns that his dirty play wont be accepted anymore. the same goes for castillo. he should have been sent off a lot of times, but i dont know why the refs didnt do it. Q4: wasnt it three matches in the beginning and then they cut the punishment down? i dont remember it. morris' punishment should be the same. about your gavromafia stuff. unfortunately i have to admit that some groups of our fanbase have just become too powerfull and are lead by the wrong people. i would love it to see tsoukalas and co. being sent into the desert by kokkalis. but unfortunately this wont happen. kokkalis depends too much on these fans and he seems to be first a fan of osfp and then president. he loves it too much being celebrated by the fans. i am happy that we have him and that he brings money to the team, that he brings us good players. but this doesnt mean that i agree with everything he does. he is always talking about banning the violence out of the stadium. a first step would be to really separate the official side of osfp from the hooligans and troublemakers who have cost us a lot of money and respect in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CH-Thrylos Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 another thing i'd say would be a good start to handle these problems you write about would be, that the fans start thinking in what their club and fans have done before they compare it to others. all this "we did what?"-"didnt your fans..."-"didnt other fans..."-stuff will just keep things on todays level. all these comparisons (stadiums, violence, attacks, european and local success,...) just keep the rivalry alive and wont let the situation calm down. the fans should concentrate on their own team first, instead of being anti-pao, anti-osfp, anti-whatever. if people would realise that and think about how to support their team instead of how to hurt others (clubs, fans) things would be way better. instead of letting out the anger, disappointment or frustration on others they should look how to support their team after a loss or a bad run, so that the team knows that the fans stand beside them and support them no matter what. i mean, just look at the atmosphere in the stadium. as long as the team plays well, is leading or is pushing to make a goal the fans are singing. but as soon as the team doesnt play well or is losing it is quiet like in a church. and these are exactly the moments the team needs the fans, not when they are playing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almamatter Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Panos13, I just feel the need to add this: At the game Panionios VS Osfp in Nea Smirni, when the law says you are only allowed to bring 5% of your fans in the away games, how did Osfp manage to have the complete coverage of 3.000 Osfp fans with the acceptance of the chief of police ? Then Beos/Panionios fans went mad and the game didn't even started. Osfp and Panionios were punished about 6 points in total. Now what happen to that whole thing ??????? Not to mention that Panionios shouldn't be to blame because if a larger than 5% visitor fan portion of any team visiting Karaiskaki we would have a war in Pirea... P.S. I remeber 2 years ago in Touba when we lost Paok 4- Pao 1, the police of Thesaloniki said no to Pao fans to travel to Touba. Later the same season at the Paok 1- Osfp 1 the same police said yes to Osfp fans to go to Touba... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CH-Thrylos Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Panos13, I just feel the need to add this: At the game Panionios VS Osfp in Nea Smirni, when the law says you are only allowed to bring 5% of your fans in the away games, how did Osfp manage to have the complete coverage of 3.000 Osfp fans with the acceptance of the chief of police ? Then Beos/Panionios fans went mad and the game didn't even started. Osfp and Panionios were punished about 6 points in total. Now what happen to that whole thing ??????? Not to mention that Panionios shouldn't be to blame because if a larger than 5% visitor fan portion of any team visiting Karaiskaki we would have a war in Pirea... P.S. I remeber 2 years ago in Touba when we lost Paok 4- Pao 1, the police of Thesaloniki said no to Pao fans to travel to Touba. Later the same season at the Paok 1- Osfp 1 the same police said yes to Osfp fans to go to Touba... the fans werent there with the acceptance of the police. since there were tickets on sale and even fans of panionios sold the to osfp fans its their own fault and they have to risk it that these fans cause trouble. if you refer to this at least get the facts straight. osfp was handed out the amount of tickets they were allowed to have, i think it was something around 300. which isnt really the 5% of the stadiums capacity (about 12'000), because beos or panionios didnt want to sell more that half the tickets possible. so some fans, or idiots, morons, call them what you want, decided to get tickets on their own and not through the club and went to the stadium to get tickets. and when they tried to enter the stadium and unfortunately managed to do so things came out as we saw it. and this whole story has been discussed a hundred times and things are finished. at least be happy about it that osfp intirectly still suffers from these happenings. because of that our last punishment was doubled and we have to play our first three matches of the season without fans. and just because paok didnt let you bring your fans to thessaloniki and we were allowed to bring ours it is not our fault. sometimes, even if it is hard to believe and accept, you should look first at what your team and management are doing, before you start comparing things to osfp and complain. btw, didnt pao and paok agree on not moving any fans to the opponents stadium right before their first match? if i remember correctly it was like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choc13 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 panos exis polla dikio mafta pou grafis,,,but hey we will go round and round in circles on these issues. I remeber the derby with osfp when we finished the game with 8 players. I remember the penalty goal papoutselis awarded the mafia. Kalitzakis taxkled him 2 metres outside the box. Mate anyone that remembers stuff, thats beyond a joke please remind us please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choc13 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 do we need to remind of the game in 2001-2002 when we were winning 1-0 in loeforos and mr efthimiadis had us pinned for 35 mins letting every foul on us pass by and giving all calls to the gay. Do referees get belted for no reason guys????????????? I mean sure the game ended 1-1 but why did the ref get belted?????there has to be some logical reason we dont know about. Afterall we dont condone violence but markarian and fillipidis were trading blows instead of doing their role theywere paid for. There must be a reason for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos13 Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 Q1: maybe, maybe not. i read a nice article about the whole story in ta nea, where kofinas wrote, that if this would have happened in leoforos he might have given kotsios just a yellow card. i dont remember it correctly but there was written, that kostios had tried to do the same thing some moments earlier. but since the the linesman told briakos what happened, and to me it looked also like kotsios wanted to hit okkas, a red card can be given in this situation. but if they would give this in karaiskaki? i dont know. since the fans are closer to the field too i could imagine that a ref would just give a yellow card. Q2: first of all, the one with kostoulas wasnt a handball imo. the one of georgatos should have been a yellow card. but if the ref would have sent two players off i dont think that the derby would have finished calmly. unfortunately there are lots of fans of our club who might love osfp more than anything else. but as big as their love to the club is, as small is their brain. most probably the stadium would have turned into hell. and the media would have written more or less the same stuff like the green papers wrote after the match. and additionally, oaka is not leoforos, where the people forget to lock the doors so that the fans cant enter the stadium. ;) Q3: i dont really remember many players being sent off. sometimes georgatos, anatolakis get the yellow card. i havent seen the match with georgatos attack on papadopoulos, so i cant judge that. but to be honest, anatolakis might have been a ksilokopos in the past, but he has become better and doesnt make this kind of fouls that often anymore. about georgatos you might have read another post of mine, where i wrote that i would like to see him being sent off a few times, so that he learns that his dirty play wont be accepted anymore. the same goes for castillo. he should have been sent off a lot of times, but i dont know why the refs didnt do it. Q4: wasnt it three matches in the beginning and then they cut the punishment down? i dont remember it. morris' punishment should be the same. about your gavromafia stuff. unfortunately i have to admit that some groups of our fanbase have just become too powerfull and are lead by the wrong people. i would love it to see tsoukalas and co. being sent into the desert by kokkalis. but unfortunately this wont happen. kokkalis depends too much on these fans and he seems to be first a fan of osfp and then president. he loves it too much being celebrated by the fans. i am happy that we have him and that he brings money to the team, that he brings us good players. but this doesnt mean that i agree with everything he does. he is always talking about banning the violence out of the stadium. a first step would be to really separate the official side of osfp from the hooligans and troublemakers who have cost us a lot of money and respect in the past. Thanks man. This is a most sensible response I have had from a gavro all my time on these boards. :tup: If all the fans see things objectively then maybe the presidents of clubs will start making changes too. But that's not likely to ever happen very soon in Greece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos13 Posted August 31, 2005 Author Share Posted August 31, 2005 do we need to remind of the game in 2001-2002 when we were winning 1-0 in loeforos and mr efthimiadis had us pinned for 35 mins letting every foul on us pass by and giving all calls to the gay. Do referees get belted for no reason guys????????????? I mean sure the game ended 1-1 but why did the ref get belted?????there has to be some logical reason we dont know about. Afterall we dont condone violence but markarian and fillipidis were trading blows instead of doing their role theywere paid for. There must be a reason for that That is a symptom of the injustice that Kokalis has created. He knows that by doing what he does he gets the enemy involved and they get banned. That's exactly what he wants Unfortunately it's very difficult to control yourself when you feel the injustice. That's why there is violence at the matches. What Efthimiades did 3 years ago was unbelievable. The alitis came to make money. I still can't believe how he gave every decision to Oly, everytime we went up the field and there was a foul he ignored it and then whistled for the slightest touch on a Olymbriakos player. It was incredible stuff. I think he got what he desreved and he should have gotten more. In fact he got away quite lightly at the end. But unfortunately the outcome was that PAO paid the price at the end and Kokalis was even happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aekrossoponti Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 i think panos13 has many points. last years protathlima wasn t won by the gavromafia though but because both pao and aek were too stupid. about the kotsisos red card, i have seen much worse from giovani in about every game he played in greece with no booking. but on the other hand i have seen red cards been given for that... i want to bring up another point. we all know about the refereeing at olympaikos homegames. a good example was the cup game with iraklis were olympiakos got a doro freekick-goal in the 90 th minute. the point you bring with the two red cards and the game finishing in an orderly fashion to me is the key to solve the big problem of greek football. if you remember the olympikos-newcastle game, were olympiakos received two red cards, how did the fans react? right, they did nothing, absolutely nothing.... why? because they know the uefa tha gamisei ton thrylo real good if they do anything. remember the monaco-olympiakos game, were monaco won 2-1 and olympiakos had a regular goal disallowed. what did the 8 000 olympiakos die-hard fans do? nothing again. it seems they are not as stupid as you may believe.in crete against ergotelis they ran rampage... they just know that the epo won t do anything against them, so they can do whatever they want in greece. kokkalis is working with the thugs and not against them. the only proedros who does that is nikolaidis of aek. respect for that. so the problem is the epo and the presidents. we could stop most violence in greek football tomorrow if they would react accordingly the biased referee is another matter but shoud decrease if the fear of hooligans was diminished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theodotz Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Well said guys as for the gavros that asks for proof and tries to be a smartass when everyone knows the situation i will say one thing. Triantafilopoulos a journalist here in Greece in one of his shows had played some tapes where you could hear a major ref that was also in referee comitee say "o Olympiakos kai to Aigaleo na kerdizoun kai oloi oi alloi na pane na g*****oun". A lot of people saw that show. Ask around. :angry: :tdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar7 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 they get the Greek league gift wrapped, then they wonder why they cant advance in the CL :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almamatter Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Panos13, I just feel the need to add this: At the game Panionios VS Osfp in Nea Smirni, when the law says you are only allowed to bring 5% of your fans in the away games, how did Osfp manage to have the complete coverage of 3.000 Osfp fans with the acceptance of the chief of police ? Then Beos/Panionios fans went mad and the game didn't even started. Osfp and Panionios were punished about 6 points in total. Now what happen to that whole thing ??????? Not to mention that Panionios shouldn't be to blame because if a larger than 5% visitor fan portion of any team visiting Karaiskaki we would have a war in Pirea... P.S. I remeber 2 years ago in Touba when we lost Paok 4- Pao 1, the police of Thesaloniki said no to Pao fans to travel to Touba. Later the same season at the Paok 1- Osfp 1 the same police said yes to Osfp fans to go to Touba... the fans werent there with the acceptance of the police. since there were tickets on sale and even fans of panionios sold the to osfp fans its their own fault and they have to risk it that these fans cause trouble. if you refer to this at least get the facts straight. osfp was handed out the amount of tickets they were allowed to have, i think it was something around 300. which isnt really the 5% of the stadiums capacity (about 12'000), because beos or panionios didnt want to sell more that half the tickets possible. so some fans, or idiots, morons, call them what you want, decided to get tickets on their own and not through the club and went to the stadium to get tickets. and when they tried to enter the stadium and unfortunately managed to do so things came out as we saw it. and this whole story has been discussed a hundred times and things are finished. at least be happy about it that osfp intirectly still suffers from these happenings. because of that our last punishment was doubled and we have to play our first three matches of the season without fans. and just because paok didnt let you bring your fans to thessaloniki and we were allowed to bring ours it is not our fault. sometimes, even if it is hard to believe and accept, you should look first at what your team and management are doing, before you start comparing things to osfp and complain. btw, didnt pao and paok agree on not moving any fans to the opponents stadium right before their first match? if i remember correctly it was like that. No you are wrong !!!I saw it with my eyes. The chief of Police gave permission of their safety and police escorted them. It was on TV all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billydagreek Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Wow, what a great topic.....debates and point of views from both sides, civilized for the most part, and about the bigger picture , the state and health of greek football...i am impressed........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Protathlitis Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 The referee Blathras was forced to stop refereeing because some organised gang of Oly fans threatened to kill his family and destroyed his brother’s business. ok big guy...do you seriously think pao fans dont send death threads constantly?its done everywhere. it happens in Australia's second division...does it mean it changed anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CH-Thrylos Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 almamatter, i just wrote what i know about the whole situation. the fans you mention, who were escorted by the police came to nea smyrni by themselves. most probably the police escorted them to prevent any trouble. they werent the "official" osfp fans in the stadium. maybe the police gave them the permission because they were affraid of what would happen if they would denie them access to the stadium. on the same day there was also the match between pao and aek and most of the police had been at that match. i mean it would be ridiculous to just let them walk into the stadium without police when there had just been the trouble between the fans in a recent water polo match. but as i said, if the people of panionios were so stupid to sell them tickets a big part of the responsebility lies in their hands. there was also the rumour about a set trap for the osfp fans so that osfp gets punished. i am sure beos is able to do something like that, since he is one of the most dubious persons in greek football. even uefa is trying to ban him from the greek football. anyway, even if nothing of my stuff is correct, except the fact that panionios people sold the tickets to osfp fans, it isnt our fault that the police gave them permission to get into the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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