Complaint Letter

[Phantis]

[drakos13]

youre not offended by "gamietai o paok kai h thessaloniki" but you are offended by voulgaroi... everybody knows theyre not bulgarians.......yell something back clever, be MEN, not little bitches crying to the EPO. if youre proud of being Macedonian and are Macedonian why/how could you be offended by this unless you arent sure yourself are you unsure of what you are?

AEK are called Turks all the time and they dont cry about it.......they know their heritage, are proud of it, and know they arent turks, and will just yell something back.

if anyone should be punished it should be PAOK for disrespecting the dead, a far more serious thing than a taunt from a bunch of teenage hooligans that.

[Batigol]

As I seem to recall, AEK's fans were lambasted over their chants during a moment of silence for the victims of the 9/11 incident a few years back in the UEFA match against Celtic. I remember the Celtic players shaking their heads and saying afterwards that the corwd were acting like a bunch of barbarians or something like that.

And to say that AEK fans love being called Turks because it's their heritage is taking it to an extreme. They don't love being called Turks. It just so happens that AEK originates from Constantinople, which HAPPENS to lie in present day Turkey. Thessaloniki never was, is, or will ever be Bulgarian.

That is where the differences lie I think.

[The2ndMouse]

I think that on a personal level whoever calls somone else or a group of people names just to make them feel bad is simply lacking the menatl capacity to have a civilized argument.

Add to that the anonymity of the crowd behind which those masterminds who say those things hide, and you have the worst kind of people who cannot think before they act.

And sorry but I cannot include those kind of insults in any framework of team teasing. Whether those are racial remarks or use of tragic events they are a very bad choice of material to serve a much lower purpose in importance.

[Original Melbourne 21]

I think people need to lighten up.

[drakos13]

its just trash talk....its what fans/hooligans do. PAOK fans should be a lot stronger than this. but i guess there not. and beleive me the more PAOK fans take it seriously the louder that chant will be every year in Leoforos. its a taunt, stop being women and ignore it or think of something more clever to respond with.

[Guest Protathlitis]

What did the Aek fans chant during the minute silence exactly?

We had another topic on the same thing. Im suprised paok complained since the chants will just be louder next year. Like i said before the danger is that for many young athenians; the only time they will see makedonoi is when they're in the opposite teer of an athenian stadium.

The problem i have with it is that we all know how easy it is for prejudices (even if they have no base to them) to get a foothold in society especially when the real makedonoi are out of sight in makedonia for most of their youth.

Its almost gotten to the point where, especially in greek communities overseas, there is some baseless idea among greek kids that if your from northern greece your less greek. We all know its obvious that makedonia is greek, still i think it undermines efforts by many greeks.

what fans/hooligans do

it might be, but fans/hooligans do a lot of things; they stab fellow greeks. something should be done and if nothing can be done then it should be discussed like what we're doing now. I know gavroi who are so fanatic it makes them almost beleive these anti-greekisms. im sure its the same for vaseloi etc.

[drakos13]

look, there is a difference in types of fans. Not everyone who is in g13 is a hooligan. there are some crazy in all gate4,21,7, etc etc that is willing to do this. but its a RARE thing. chanting in a staidum cannont compared because it is totally harmless.

as for athenians, thas not true, there are many many people whose families come from Makedonia just like from all over greece. they know about makedonia on the news, they know its a part of greece, i dont see how athenian kids will view macedonia as bulgarian or less greek is overdoing it. everyone KNOWS its not true, its kind of absurd to say they dont. theres channels from Makedonia here in athens that people watch news events etc...even the most retarted cannot get them confused.

the fact that its disputed or even can be taken as offensive instead of just plain stupid to be called bulgarian is very irritating.

example, if you are in america/australia/whatever country and somebody calls you a dirty italian or a slur for italian, are you really going to be offended or are u going to see how pathetic and stupid the insult was because its obvious youre not italian (maybe not great example but its happened). Intelligent people do the second, and just shake their head at how pathetic the insult was... this really shouldnt be a big deal at all.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Look at England for example, i mean their League 4-5 years back was jst as bad as ours with the hooligans however their government did something about it by installing cameras singleing out the individual leaders of these hooligan gangs and baning them for life with huge fines and yes even jail time, now u look at their League and its preety damn clean concerning hooligans.. However our League is still F***ed, u know why? because the Greek government and the presedent of each team i.e Pao, oly, Aek n Paok love it n wnt do nothing about it....

[drakos13]

but i would like to say - english teams have the worst atmosphere next to the MLS, and that we arent talking of hooliganism we are talking of chants at a game....holiganism i consider to be destructive of stadiums and violence with fans and police.........

the incidents in greece dont really compare with englands problems, they had all out wars and drunken brawls and arranged meetings to fight. retards.......

in greece the big problems are with away fans, who find a way to piss of the cops or other fans, have gas launched and people running back and forth getting beaten and shoved closer together....with some exeptions such as with PAO - OSFP trying to get into the stadium by force....

[XXX-18T]

I think people need to lighten up.

i agree people are whinging over nothing

and Hollywood why did u ###### swear for :LOL:

[Guest Protathlitis]

Alright. Ill just say one more thing:

There is a real danger that comes with these chants; and that is the kind of sentiments and ideas they can develope in greek youth. Ive chanted things when I've gone to games but never these things which i think are anti-greek.

XXX-18T, you shut the %$#& up.

(just kidding) in case someone thought otherwise

[Elastonpappou 13]

I think PAE PAOK should look at their own fans first before they make complaints. Because if EPO, EPAE acts like they should (as PAOK suggests) then PAOK should be banned for life from A division!!!! ;)

YPOKRISIA SE OLO THS TO MEGALEIO!!!! OYST!!!! :box: :ph34r:

P.S. I also liked the "filathloi ton omadon toy kentrou"... Pos fenete to complex akoma kai meso mias epistolhs!!! 2 fores OYST!!!! :box: :box:

[drakos13]

Alright. Ill just say one more thing:

There is a real danger that comes with these chants; and that is the kind of sentiments and ideas they can develope in greek youth. Ive chanted things when I've gone to games but never these things which i think are anti-greek.

XXX-18T, you shut the %$#& up.

(just kidding) in case someone thought otherwise

if you disagree with it, thats fine and understandable, i am not macedonian but i get very upset when people say they are slavic in a serious context. this couldnt be further, and yes some kids could be influenced but theres a whole world outside of the stadium that influences them way more. the one derby with PAOK in leforos every year isnt going to have Athens youth thinking Thessaloniki is bulgarian....... its just not enough to seriously affect them with schools, news, people, tv from macedonia,...

[Ziaka]

YPOKRISIA SE OLO THS TO MEGALEIO!!!! OYST!!!! :box: :ph34r:

Hypocrites calling someone else a hypocrit. :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

[Ziaka]

Anyway, the complaint must have worked. Athletic Judge has made his decision:

PAOK: 10,000 Euro fine. Also a 3-month ban to goaltender coach Michopoulos.

Panathinaikos: One game behind closed doors and 30,000 Euro fine.

[Guest Protathlitis]

ziaka, was the chanting the only reason for the penalties? if so im pretty suprised.

@drakos, football has a pretty strong effect on people; besides what it does is add to the ridiculous feeling harboured by some even before these chants started them up. The idea of it wasnt started by vazeloi or gavroi or any football fan.

[drakos13]

i just dont think it can have such a serious effect. I hope im right.

also this is sort of irrelevant but i think it could help a lot if they played the national anthem before all games. it would serve as a good reminder and it is something both fans will sing proudly, and can reinforce that its football and Greece is to be respected above all.

[Ziaka]

Protathlitis, the chanting was not the main reason for the penalties. The reason was that right before the game started, PAOK fans were attacked when they entered the stadium by PAO fans. PAO fans threw seats and rocks at PAOK fans. In return PAOK fans threw the objects back at PAO fans. As for the chants, the ref of the game did not even right that down in the match report, even though according to the new athletic law the refs are supposed to interrupt the game if such chants are heard in the stands.

The ban on Michopoulos was because after the game ended he told the ref of the game "that he won't come out alive if he steps his foot in Toumba" or something to that effect.

[HOLLYWOOD]

i agree people are whinging over nothing

and Hollywood why did u ###### swear for :LOL:

i dnt get it ;)