trifilli Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 thats just stupid to say .... Soum was flawless domestically ... Soum had philosophy and psychology, way more than Skazni does. Soum was a great coach for us. :o As far as these comments... I regret engaging myself is a discussion with someone that has NO respect for others. :tdown: I quote you: thats just stupid to say.... :tdown: Soum was flawless domestically :D Soum was a great coach for us. :o Yes indeed the above claims fit your first quote... B) thats just stupid to say.... PS: I remember trying to help you find tickets to PAO games.... :nono: PEACE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 i dont know what youre trying to say because you arent clear at all. I can tell you find it strange, that i dont hate Shoum for being a good coach, and bringing us the double after 7 years also scoring a hell of a lot more goals than his previous coaches. He had a simple attacking mentality, and it worked. He was cautious in europe with PSV, and you jump on him. The year before he was a new coach in a new team. PAO didnt have players at the level of Manchester United or Stuttgart. Players like Basinas, Seitaridis, Papadopoulos learned from soum to attack better. Sapanis got to prove his worth too which he showed and learned from soum, he is a great player.. ...... as for resutls with rosenborg... really ? the PLAYERS WON THE GAME!??? Not Soum? Obviously. The players are the ones WHO PLAY. You give to much credit to the coaches, there impact on the game isnt as big as you make it out to be. When a player breaks down, the result is blamed on the coach, and thats not something a coach can control. you say the title was from Manoli, after the whole season soum worked to get the team where they are. After watching them play last year in the begining and the end and this year, they improved A LOT.... and and you are telling me now that Skazni's great tactics win games? Arsenal? Do you really think we would have done so good with Arseanal if that goalkeeper wasnt so terrrible? Skaznis great tactics we dont even make a chance with kerkira? Man be realistic, be grateful. Soum did good for this club, getting crap for transfer money and controlled by Zaec, and getting the double on first try, while Skazni was a pussy with OSFP, waited till the '87 to throw manolis at rosenborg, the team played garbage first half with Ergoteli.......and in not even a full half season has a worse domestic record than soum all last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elastonpappou 13 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Tactically Skazni is much worse than Schum!!! Now if he is getting along with the players and building up the psychology then that's another thing.... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adonis Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I dont think either coach Skanzi or Shoum have tactical qualities...and I dont want to be in a position to say who was tactically more aware. However Skanzi has shown more faith in the team and the teams attacking capability. However my main belief is that Shoum has no clue about European soccer. He is afraid of the bigger clubs and that showed many times. Including this season against PSV. as for resutls with rosenborg... really ? the PLAYERS WON THE GAME!??? Not Soum? Obviously. The players are the ones WHO PLAY. You give to much credit to the coaches, there impact on the game isnt as big as you make it out to be. When a player breaks down, the result is blamed on the coach, and thats not something a coach can control. you say the title was from Manoli, after the whole season soum worked to get the team where they are. After watching them play last year in the begining and the end and this year, they improved A LOT.... The players did get the result in that game...more so Gonzales did. And coaches deserve the credit they get. As we have seen we have lost and won games due to coaches tactics - the Norway game could have been 3 points if it wasnt for Skanzi and the PSV game in Holland also could have been the otehr way around if it wasnt for Shoum. Anyways...this is the wrong topic to get this specific argument under way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 what faith in attack does he ahve playing with one striker the majority of a game vs a weakend olympiakos? what about waiting till the 87' to put on another striker in a must win game when we lost the lead in the 75' These cant be good decsisions. Soum attacked home and away, with the exception of the PSV and Auxerre away games. I think after pulling the team together last year deserves more than 2 games for a fair chance in europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifilli Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 It comes down to the subjective opinion of each fan, to choose European or domestic success. Scum's tactics are good enough not to lose to gauro in three games, but NOT sophisticated enough to avoid the worst European year in recent memory :tdown: After Auxaire :tdown: I do not care it we beat gauro 3-1 or 10-1!!! I DO NOT CARE about beating the rats, but I DO about keeping PAO competitive abroad :tup: So far, Scasni's CL record in 4 games is far superior to Scum's 10 in games... If Bassinas had not missed the PK at Highbury, Scasni's name would have been tied to one of the biggest PAO and GREEK :gr: wins on record :nw: As most of us know, a great team shows in Europe, not vs Ergotelis. Let's see what the UEFA holds :D Have you forgotten how PAO played last year? It was NOT pretty... i dont know what youre trying to say because you arent clear at all.Is this clear?thats just stupid to say.... PEACE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 i didnt forget. But you forgot, it was pretty much a new team in the begging of that year. We had Manolis, Michaelsen injured, no Eki yet, we just lost Kolkka, Lybe, Karagkounis, we were trying to build a whole new mentality, a fresh start at the club. Yeah in europe they were bad, but Soum took over a club in a serious crisis. Its a much different scenario. Skazni took over a team when they were already in good shape. Its not fair to judge because Soum wasnt given a full chance this year with what he had molded. He did manage to get on our first game a win with Rosenborg, and yes PSV was terrible, he had a breakdown there. But we should have waited and seen what else he could do. If you want to start with the "if" lets not forget what if Lehman wasnt retarted in leoforo, or if reyes could finish from 2 meters away....I wouldnt call it a great european season with him yet, lets wait for UEFA. We still didnt progress, and thats what was important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 also trifylli, i know you are rushing to take this as a personal insult for some reason :blink: , but please read the whole quote, i didnt say YOU were stupid, i said that which you have said is. "thats just stupid to say Manoli won the protathlima". Think about that. A guy that scores 2 late goals wins us the prota8lhma and has nothing to do with the coach? (the protathlima is also 30 games long) yes they were crucial goals and he score another one with Paniliakos, but that doesnt mean HE won it and no credit to the other players, coaches and trainers who worked all season long to acheive this. :nw: :nw: :nw: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kojak Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Im not saying i agree with any of the above statements but, i dont care whether shum won it, or olisadebe won it, the only problem was, we always leave it up to the last games to see whether we will actually win the title. If shum or scasny are good coaches, they should have and should for the latter win the title convincingly and early, to enable us to live a few extra years, rather than give us heart attacks in the last games when they all play 11 in the box just to get a draw and fuk us up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Im not saying i agree with any of the above statements but, i dont care whether shum won it, or olisadebe won it, the only problem was, we always leave it up to the last games to see whether we will actually win the title. If shum or scasny are good coaches, they should have and should for the latter win the title convincingly and early, to enable us to live a few extra years, rather than give us heart attacks in the last games when they all play 11 in the box just to get a draw and fuk us up. yeah but usually every team wins in the last couple matches... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kojak Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 yeah but usually every team wins in the last couple matches...Only in competitive leagues where there are 5-6 clubs all gunning for a top 3 finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 no. for the last couple years OSFP has been down to the last match, etc.... its not uncommon. I mean you cannot judge a coach on this by not winning it early, thats pointless. The coach cant control how OTHER teams perform, if you are undefeated most of the season, but one team has only lost once to you, its still going to be close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kojak Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 no. for the last couple years OSFP has been down to the last match, etc.... its not uncommon. I mean you cannot judge a coach on this by not winning it early, thats pointless. The coach cant control how OTHER teams perform, if you are undefeated most of the season, but one team has only lost once to you, its still going to be close. thats fine...you didnt understand my point..no time to explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 My 2 cents: Shum was a joke domestically and especially in euro play. He didn't win the titles for us..... PAO played 2 great games, one of which was at the cup final against gavroi. Shum was an idiot. Any coach could not have done worse...and it was bound to happen after 7 years.... also, the rest of the teams SUCKED!!!!!!! Scazni is not a great coach judging from what I've seen, but I'm willing to give him some more time. PAO needs not a good, but a GREAT coach with the right mentality, the balls, and the knowledge/experience. We need a builder with a VISION for the future. PS> I watched lots of games on tape over the summer.... what I saw was this: For most of the games our team didn't know what it was doing.... just 10 players running around. The very last game (watched it too) against Paniliakos.... what a crappola! That was embarrassing. Finally, Manoli came in and had 1 brilliant moment.... THIS IS WHAT won it for us..... A FEW BRILLIANT MOMENTS THE RIGHT TIMES! Don't get me wrong, the other teams sucked and we deserved it, but it wasn't out of some great plays and good planning. It just happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 PAO scored a way more goals last season than the last couple of years........call him a bad coach he taught a lot to the players...He had a simple attacking mentality that PAO wanted, and it worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifilli Posted December 15, 2004 Share Posted December 15, 2004 PAO 0 Auxerre 1 A shambolic PAO bowed out of Europe to a superior team Auxerre mainly because of the coaching incompetence of Yitzak Shum. PAO 's Europeam campaign this year can only be deemed as a FAIL. That was Scum!... :tdown: :ph34r: :angry: :nono: PEACE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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