athinaios Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 Well what can I say...we were robbed but OLY have the better side this season. The point is it obviously wasn't a fair game, but the entire league is f*cked and run by a bunch of crooks so it doesn't surprise me. I don't want calls in our favor either; I want to win legitimately. It would have been a decent flowing game (except for Toro) if it wasn't for the officiating. I'm so sick of this nonsense. Now, that's what I'm saying about this sport's future. Many people will (or already have) turn away and find something else to spend their time & money on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Well what can I say...we were robbed but OLY have the better side this season. The point is it obviously wasn't a fair game, but the entire league is f*cked and run by a bunch of crooks so it doesn't surprise me. I don't want calls in our favor either; I want to win legitimately. It would have been a decent flowing game (except for Toro) if it wasn't for the officiating. I'm so sick of this nonsense. I agree. We should do what they did in Cyprus, hire foreign referees. There will be no shouts of conspiracy then. A refereeing mistake will simply be put down to a refereeing mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clover22 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I agree. We should do what they did in Cyprus, hire foreign referees. There will be no shouts of conspiracy then. A refereeing mistake will simply be put down to a refereeing mistake. Really I didn't know they did that in Cyprus. They should bring it back to Greece! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evalagoal Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I agree. We should do what they did in Cyprus, hire foreign referees. There will be no shouts of conspiracy then. A refereeing mistake will simply be put down to a refereeing mistake.Referee mistakes are going to happen no matter what.. Believe it or not all these "mistakes" happen because of the game itself, the players and the referees... It's how (in this case) EPO trains and promotes the game...Look how the FA (in the UK) promotes everything and anything that has to do w/ the game. EPO just needs to step in the "clean house" and become just like it is in the UK.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Referee mistakes are going to happen no matter what.. Believe it or not all these "mistakes" happen because of the game itself, the players and the referees... It's how (in this case) EPO trains and promotes the game... Look how the FA (in the UK) promotes everything and anything that has to do w/ the game. EPO just needs to step in the "clean house" and become just like it is in the UK.. I have been saying that for 5-6 years now but nobody else in Greece sees things the same way that we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 I agree with Crazy{man, you've got to change your name because you make sense!} Many people in Greece don't care or don't see the long term interest of the sport. They should hire professionals all around to be in charge of the various dpts. Independent sports courts, EPO, and Superleague. And they should have transparency and accountability. It's not necessary to have a conspiracy to screw things up. If the system is corrupt, you play according to those rules. The refs don't have to be told to be "good" to a team, they just know it. Who was the AEK player who said that the refs in Karaiskaki play "xesmenoi"? Why is it so? Bigger teams always have had preferential treatment compared to the lesser teams. IF you think the system is corrupt, then you don't accept decisions, and you don't care about anything else but your team. IF I was in charge I'd take 10 points from Oly for what happened during and after the game in Karaiskaki. {same for any other team that didn't control their fans} BUt, it has to be fair. Getting foreign refs may be a solution, but, guys, this is falling very low. Since the revo of 1821, Greeks needed foreigners to adjudicate their disputes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I firmly believe that the way to go is to employ foreign referees. I saw how well this worked in Cyprus and it would work for us too. Ideally, the 2nd thing that needs to happen is consistency in punishing teams for crowd trouble. We'll need a written sporting law on what specific crimes constitute punishments. For instance, lighting flares cannot and should not warrant the same level of punishment as fans running onto the pitch and attacking players. So we'll need relevant laws. The problem is Greece is so poorly run at the moment with the threat of pretty much everything being privatized that football is the least of the nation's concerns so getting an entire "movement" going to re-shape football is going to be practically impossible right now. The easiest and swiftest thing to do to control all this is the following: - Get foreign referees - long jail sentences for those arrested for violence at games - hand out very large fines to football clubs that fail to control their fans and long term fan-bans. If Olympiakos had to play 10 homes games behind closed doors it would affect their income and their points tally, so Marinakis would take action - continue to prevent away fans from travelling These are viable short term solutions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irlandos Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 How about banning ticket sales at the door? Tickets should only be sold on the internet, using a credit card, after full details are given and limited to 3-4 per customer. That way everyone knows who's seated where. That's how it's done here in NI. They also do body searches prior to entering the turnstiles and even bottle caps are confiscated. And make throwing objects or entering the pitch by a fan a crime punishable with a stiff jail sentence and a lifetime ban from even seeing Thyella Skafidakiou play Proitos Tirynthos. Btw, those foreign refs in Cyprus were actually Elladites! :gr: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evalagoal Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 How about banning ticket sales at the door? Tickets should only be sold on the internet, using a credit card, after full details are given and limited to 3-4 per customer. That way everyone knows who's seated where. That's how it's done here in NI. They also do body searches prior to entering the turnstiles and even bottle caps are confiscated. And make throwing objects or entering the pitch by a fan a crime punishable with a stiff jail sentence and a lifetime ban from even seeing Thyella Skafidakiou play Proitos Tirynthos. Btw, those foreign refs in Cyprus were actually Elladites! :gr: Banning tickets at the door won't solve the issue here, there's more ways that people can by tickets.. Cameras inside the main Greek stadiums, Bring in Riot police everytime the top 4 clubs play against each other and have the home team presidentpay them to secure the players and the field. If this doesn't happen HUGE point deduction will be given out by EPO. This is how all these issues we're talking about will be solved. It's as simple as black & white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Banning tickets at the door will only ruin the atmosphere, nothing else. It will also give rise to a black market. In England for instance the tickets are issued to individuals, rather to just anyone. I'm an Arsenal fan and haven't had the opportunity to get a season ticket (way to expensive and i work on Saturdays anyway) but when i have been able to go I tend to buy the tickets from a guy i know who owns 3 season tickets (one on his name, one on his girlfriends and one on his dad's). They can't always go to the games so rather than lose the money he sells them. Now I don't start crowd trouble obviously but it's an example of how easy it is to get around these issues. The only way to stop it is to have riot police at every game like evalagoal says, when hooligans are arrested they should be given life time bans are criminal records and in cases of violence, jail sentences. Clubs should also be fined much more and handed fan bans when they are unable to control their own fans. So the clubs will also have to chip in financially to provide the appropriate level of security at their games. Some of the refs in Cyprus were Greek but not all. Either way, they were refs that couldn't be accused of having a club affiliation. Let's hire Swedish, English, French, refs. Refs from all over Europe and eradicate the conspiracy theories that surround our game, and hopefully the dodgy decisions too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 If the integrity of the sport is important, then the referring has to be the best possible. I can't accept that there aren't good refs in Greece. The trick is to make sure they are impartial. It looks very bad to call in foreign refs. Greeks have been doing this since Independence... calling foreigners to be in charge of important functions (state and non). I'd deduct 10 points from Oly for what happened at the derby. More than than for second offense! Unless the fans team loses points the "fans" will continue to misbehave. {it's ridiculous to see 1 game without fans as punishment; fines and such punishments aren't going to stop anyone from being a jerk} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifilli Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Let's not kid ourselves, there is one team that has consistently been lurking in the background of Greek football... The references are innumerable, form paraga, to winning the league on paper vs AEK, on and on. The politics of football are about money, and power, like every other aspect of politics. That is even more pronounced in Greece, for various cultural and "temperamental" reasons. To single out the refs in this game, the behavior of the "fans" or the inability of "EPO" would be silly and unfair. This has been the standard in Greek football for years. PAO is NOT the only victim in this. So are AEK , PAOK, ARIS and most of the little teams. In all fairness PAO is probably less victimized than all other Greek teams except of course the team from Pireas... Like many of their arrogant fans and owner have said: "there are two kinds of fans in Greece, the oly fans and the anti-oly fans!... Go figure. If Marinakis is not embarrassing enough for them it is a direct reflection of the whole mentality of that organization. In the end it is just a game, and without wanting to sound elitist I dare say: "kalhtera deyteros kai kyrios para protos kai aliths" Silly me I thought they could not find worse than Kakalis... Greetings to all fans, not fanatics, of Greek football. Big congratulations to the Salonika teams for making Greece proud in Europe this year. PEACE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Good to see you back Trifilli. You're right, but my question is how come Oly has had the lion share of preferential treatment? PAO is treated better than the lesser teams too, and in honesty I don't like that. I want a league with integrity. But, who's going to remember what happened this year a generation from now. Who remembers when AEK lost the title on paper??!! Can you tell me how many (accurately) championships gavroi won that they shouldn't have? Besides, all these years that only 1 Greek team went to the CL, it meant $$$$ for Oly! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Can you tell me how many (accurately) championships gavroi won that they shouldn't have? That's almost impossible to say because you'd have to analyse every single decision over the course of the season, every season. :) As much as i agree that the athens derby was a disgrace, we have to put things into perspective here. Even if we'd have drawn we'd have been -7. Yes we'd be in the title race but the fact is we shouldn't allow that game to mask our weaknesses. After the Atromitos game the players did a lap of honour and the fans were chanting: na toi, na toi, oi protathlites. The players dont deserve that sort of praise. We've been mediocre in the league all season and in the CL we were humiliated in the weakest league in the competition. We need reinforcements and we shouldn't hide that by claiming we're the deserving champions. We were cheated out of the opportunity to compete for the league with a poor Olympiakos team, but that doesn't make us a good side. If Cisse leaves, as he says he will, it will be the weakest PAO team in years. That's not acceptable after the positive strides we'd made last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pao123 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 weakest pao in years? even without cisse that would not be true..or even close to true..i remember not too long ago the teams with player like dumitru mitu, biscan, conceicao, silvio maric, carlos chainho...please, dont make me laugh with some of the players and teams weve had in the past years...even our team in 2004 was not great..i would take leto, ninis and simao over sanmartean, biscan and sapanis...there are some very talented players on the team, with the money from a big cisse transfer, if the money is re invested right, we can make some good transfers, get some good reinformances and fix up a solid team... euro, i like you, but you are too negative man..maybe its in your green blood but all i ever hear from you is negativity...its beyong being a realist! :D you put down the team even when we won the double last year... im happy the fans are FINALLY behind the team after it seemed all year long the team was practically booed off the pitch at oaka...sure over the course of the year we were not good, but since the winter we have seen some good improvement in our play...we were starting to play very well, the team started showing championship pathos and play...if ferreira was the coach from the beginning, with this team, we would have taken the title..there were problems throughout the year that were starting to get fixed before the clash last week(yes it was late, but it was happening), which in my opinion was a season changer...if we would have won that match, we could have very well caught oly, dont forget they have a VERY tough schedule in the last matchdays...if we won a -4 is 2 matchdays...the season is a marathon, i used to run races in my prime and would often be close to last in the first half of the race, but finish in the top 3 by the end... anyway, its over now, lets get the CL spot and hope the team rebuilds this summer with ferreira from the beginning..i am starting to see where he wants to take the team and i like his vision... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irlandos Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 It looks very bad to call in foreign refs. Greeks have been doing this since Independence... calling foreigners to be in charge of important functions (state and non). In the early-mid 1960s - prior to the junta rule - foreign refs routinely officiated at Greek matches and we're not just talking AEK, PAO and OSFP! Iraklis would play Pierikos and the ref would be from Portugal. That ended and any conversation about foreign refs since then has been nipped in the bud by EPO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifilli Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 One of the reasons I have always liked this forum, although I had not always posted, is that most posters here, are not radical. It is refreshing to be able to have a debate with intelligent opinions, coming from opposing sides. At heart, I am not that bothered that PAO lost to Oly, or that we are not going to win the title. It is painful to see something you love being treated with disrespect, by classless humanoids who happened to be there because they inherited a fortune, and solely for their egocentric self promoting reasons. Marinakis and all the others like him , the list is depressingly long... How did Koskotas avoid Greek prison for years while he was incarcerated in Massachusetts and was then deported back? Why did Kokalis escape Greek "justice" for years after being involved in numerous anti-competitive monopolies? Anyone remember "Intracom", they owned and still do all public card phones? Now he owns HOL vodaphone etc. Was directly involved in the Siemens scandal. Anyone remembers that oly sponsor?... How about Beos and the other guy "the tiger" ... All these above characters have no place in any football activity. Yet they are the ones controlling the strings... What saddens me is that there is no accountability for anything any more. Not the fans who enter the pitch knowing no arrests will be made, NOT the policemen that are more concerned about their job stability, not EPO who is incapable of enforcing any laws, not the sports rags who write populist libel propaganda that "charges" the fanatics in order to sell, not the owners, not the state. THEN who? 2010 was a tough year for Greece. It has been down spiraling since 2009. I spent a lengthy term In Athens and was very much "indoctrinated" into reality. May I put it in these famous last words: "Houston we have a problem..." It is not only the financial aspect that I am concerned with, that may actually end up being beneficial. It is the decay of values in Greek society. That is not an import that we should be buying... In a bright note, PAO played a great game vs the akatonomastous and it was fun to see them squirm and apparently be so relieved they managed to escape in their usual ways. We not only bring foreign refs, but foreign politicians too... :LOL: Maybe Greece should become a "protectorate" Hey it works. Look at Guam , Puerto Rico, Israel, Hong Kong ... :blink: PEACE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Panathinaikos puts out a video with refereeing mistakes - watch here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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