Iraklis v. PANATHINAIKOS

[drakos13]

if u dont want to see any of "these idiots" GO support THE EPL or the championship....seriously no one is forcing anyone here to watch the Greek league or support Greek teams, we all know its corrupt, lesser quality players and satdiums etc

one thing Greeks will never understand untill they see what stadiums here in "PC" countries are like with absolutly NO passion or atmosphere.....

trust me it doesnt harm the game, i mean who the bloody hell takes a girl on a date to watch a football game???

Its one thing to be passionate, its another entirely to be a total retard. There IS a difference, and Greek people, don't have any sense of a limit, and this isn't suprising, the entire country is a joke, with its hand out to the central government, to the European government, and kicks and screams thinking that concequences for actions should not apply to them, and that destruction is totally justified when they feel like it, for symbolical sakes.

As for PC countries, England I can say DOES have a good match atmosphere. Its not as intimidating/agressive, but the atmosphere is none the less good, enjoyable for all, and for the big games, it does get quiet noisy and loud. Just like in Greece, only in the big games do the fans "show up".

I don't know about A-League, tho I bet it does blow, but to be fair, its Australia, and thats not really there game. I think its more of an immigrants game in Australia, and the league blows/nobody will ever care about Australian football except for the national team on the world stage, much like a South Korea, Iran etc...

To be honest, some of the best atmosphere is obviously in PAO for me, but in Germany they have awesome atmospheres too. German league IMO, is not the best in elite-quality, but is the best overall league in the world, in terms of balanced, ownership laws, fans/atmosphere and is still fairly high quality.

I went to a match once, and not only was the atmosphere great and exciting, but no violence, even though away supporters were scattered throughout the stadium (I hate that though, there should always be designated section even if theres no threat of violence).

Violence, throwing things on to the pitch ok, in some minor cases who cares. When its the story of every game......WTF. Don't be suprised to find when you see it up close its not "passionate" fans, but its KIDS. 15 year old morons. Greece has the stupidest youth in the entire western world, probably along with Argentina, who Greece is so proud to have cultural similarities with one of the worlds biggest failures of a country.

Breaking apart the stadium, throwing things, is not really passion. Sometimes in the heat of the momnet, after some players are getting close (maybe a harsh tackle and shoving match) then I can interpret a flying object in the spur of the moment as passion.

When its every free throw, corner, then its a 'm@l@kia'. When its planned out to bring things into the stadium to throw, unless its confetti, flares etc for fans, its more BS--- NOT 'PASSION'.

People protesting and fighting with the police before the game - not passion. STUPID. Like what OSFP fans did in the derby, they went out and actively sought confrontation with the police.

Also, whenever I'm at PAO matches, I often see girls and even guys with girls. Girls can enjoy football and the exciting atmosphere too.

[cyberfish]

I was looking at the goal here and I have to say that all the criticism the team gets about organization, ball movement, forward passing, movement without the ball, and wing play gets erased. Mind you it's one play and we don't always play like this, but it's a glimpse that the team is (was) working in practice.

Watch how many players exchange the ball and watch how Ninis cuts the ball against the flow of play to Spyropoulos, and then see where Ninis ends up to receive the rebound for the score. Also note Gilberto's moves to link defense/midfield and then midfield/offense.

I'll count the passes just for the fun of it:

Tzovas to Gilberto (note how Kante is on the left, spyro is already where he should be and Vintra hustles to move forward)

Gilberto to Bjarsmyr who takes the ball to midfield and to the right.

Bjarsmyr to Kante who moves the ball to the left

Kante to Christodoulopoulos (nice forward pass) who ran back to himself make himslef available (Spyro is making a move down the line)

Christodoulopoulos takes a few meters and gives the ball to Spyro right on the line (after he pulls the defender to release Spyro).

Spyropoulos makes a move toward the interior and passes to Gilberto in the middle. Christodoulopoulos has moved to the LAM position and Katsouranis is already in the SS position behind Cisse who is pressing the defensive line. Ninis moves towards Gilbertoto take the ball pulling the LB).

Gilberto attacks the DM and cuts the ball further to the right to Ninis. (At this point the entire Iraklis team is looking and moving to their left - our right with what looks like a good defensive formation except Cisse is already alone on the edge of the box)

Ninis evades one opponent and immediately gets pressed by another who puts a body on him. Ninis quickly (and with the left foot!) cuts the ball against the flow of play to the forgotten Spyropoulos all the way to the other end near the leftedge of the box. (At this point Iraklis' players begin moving to the left)

Spyropoulos delivers an excellent cross all the way to the opposite edge of the six yard box where Cisse is lurking all alone still.

Cisse with excellent touch lays the ball in the center for the trailing Katsouranis (aren't you glad Cisse didn't shoot from there?)

Sarakatsanos gets the edge of his boot on the ball that sails behind Katsouranis.

Ninis finds the ball at the edge of the box where he was supposed to be and sends a rocket of a confident shot to score in the near post.

That's 12 players touching the ball. Ninis, Gilberto, and Spyropoulos touched it twice. Eveyrone else moved in space where they should be. We moved from our RB position to the LW and all the way to the far post with the cross.

All the exchanges were short, high percentage passes, with the exception of few special plays: Ninis long pass to Spyropoulos against the flow, Spyropoulos' cross to Cisse, and Cisse's nice touch to Katsouranis. The finish by Ninis was class too.

Nice goal. I am not sure if Nioblias had anythign to do with this kind of play but if he did, great! If he didn't, I hope he keeps it up.

[athinaios]

Thanks Cyber, this is how I watch games sometimes... observing how particular players move.

You can see Ninis' value as a creative player. He takes the ball way out ontop of the box and needles to the left side of the pitch for the eventual cross. Excellent change of play and long vision.

The other thing (and I know I've been very hard on Cisse) is that Cisse did not do what he usually does... take a shot from a difficult angle, but chose instead to give it to someone who had a better field of vision. OK, his touch was deflected and got to Ninis, but his thought was excellent. He's not as selfish, or that he's becoming better at playing with teammates and not wanting to be always the one to take the shot.

Oh, and by the way, Ninis finished it with a very reasonable shot! I can see how players like Gabriel or even attackers could have sent this one to the skies... :whistle:

[cyberfish]

Yea, one of the main things I like about football is how things flow quickly and how players can keep track of space around them.

I have read many things about Ninis and I agree with all. He has good bridling skills, and some decent speed this year, but his best quality is how he sees the field as if he is above everyone else. In that play, I could see how other players would have tried to stop and bring the ball to their best foot (Karagounis does this a lot), but Ninis knew the opportunity to find Spyropoulo alone was a short one and so he delivered with his left foot.

About Cisse, I am not sure what fans expect. He can't dribble and he can't be a creative player, but he too has excellent perception of space, he has speed, strength and good shot.

He is on his way to over 15 goals this season and I think he is pretty good at giving the ball when he things a teammate has a better shot. I know fans expect that he should be giving up the ball more often but for me I don't mind him racking up the shots. It drives me crazy seeing our striker spending more time dealing the ball around. I am a happy camper with Cisse and your last sentence illustrates why I'd rather have Cisse going the shooting.

And oh, yes, I have him for 4 assists this season (Ergotelis to Leto - which some might not thin of as an assist but I count it - Panthrakikos to Leto, and Panionios to Katsourani). And one to Salpi against Sparta). That's not a bad number for a striker. Leto also has 4, and Karagounis has 5 by my count.