cyberfish Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 62' Roukavina in for Ninis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Karagounis gave away the ball and caused Simao a booking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I know they're already thinking of the next game, but I don't want this one to turn into a heart attack... Com'on, they're 1 player down, we're playing in our house with great fan support, and we're a better team. They should score at least 2 more. This is too close for comfort. And, Tzorvas saved a couple already.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 We simply have to increase our work rate. 20 more minutes. We seem to be picking it up now... but we haven't had any real chances besides the two goals. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Nice little trick on the foul good shot by Gabriel out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Po po I can't believe we have defenders like Darlas on our roster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 5 yellows to PAO players. Bjarsmyr the latest. We can't win the midfield battles darn it. How much are we missing Gilberto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Well, TKate said our defense was complete back in the pre-season... Yurkas seems rusty. Ruka is awful so far. Cisse has done a couple selfish things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Ok, I can't believe Panionios with ten men is pushing us around. The win all the lose balls :angry: :angry: Panionios players look like they believe and our players can't get their act together. This is horrible we can and we must be steamrolling all over this Panionios team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 FT what a joke of a game. 10 minutes of good football and then just a pathetic showing by everyone involved. A win is a win so I'll forget all about this game in a couple of days but if we keep these performances up we'll be dropping points when we don't need to. Panionios believed in the miracle, but we gave them the opportunity to stand up and fight when we had them down. The whole team was disjointed with huge spaces between the lines and no plan to attack or defend. Our defense with the exception of Sariegi was horrible. Katsouranis/Karagounis were bad and so we had no midfield. I didn't think the substitutes helped much. Ninis maybe was tired but in retrospect Karagounis could have come out instead. Roukavina was a good addition as a thought but he didn't do any better than what Leto would have done on the left line. Seitaridis' debut was a flash back to the days five years ago: his crosses fell in no man's land and got burned a couple of times when he gifted the ball. Darlas was and still is a horrible defender. He is careless and overcommits himself with second division tackles. His technique is so bad that there is no hope of improving in this lifetime. His forward moves were just as bad. Cisse did well to put this game away in 11 minutes but the rest of his performance was erratic. He shot when he should have passed and he passed when he should be shooting. I guess being unpredictable makes him dangerous. Two goals, a penalty won, and one ejection is nothing to sneeze at. He did his job. Gabriel wasn't bad as a back and I thought Ten Cate outsmarted himself with his first substitution when he pulled Katsourani and put Seitaridi in, pushing Gabriel up to play as a DM. I understand he needed a better defender in midfield to stop Panionios who were having fun holding on to the ball, and at the same time he wanted a ball handler to hold on to the ball. The truth is, we didn't have another DM on the bench so it's easy to second guess this one. I thought a simple command to Katsourani to never cross midfield would have been a better option. Katsouranis kept running to press the defenders when they had the ball and he constantly left a huge hole in midfield because he never really won the ball when he did so. I don't want to see such a game from our team again and I don't want to see Darlas take the pitch ever again (sorry Darlas fans). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I want to see the pao of the first 15 minutes all game long. After the 2-0 lead... took the foot off the gas. Both teams had a post. and Panionio had another good chance after the 1-1.. Also Pao were denied a third goal after a wrong call on an offside. Take teh 3 points and off to Austria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAO_OR_DEATH Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 CIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISE hey at least we took all 3, i mean last year we would have conceeded a 2nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Cisse was good, but its obvious that scoring is something more for himself...... Way too selfish yesterday, I can understand it when your 2-0 up and walking on them but when its 2-1 and uncertain, you've got to look for the best opportunities. Can't be happy with the second half. We should have blasted it at least 3-0....Instead we came almost 2-2, and Panionios had 10. Good job to them, but...Thats should have never happened. Perhaps we scored too quickly and assumed we were finished... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukchris Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 I made it along to the game, and have to say that Panionios were incredibly unlucky not to come away with a point. For a team who were 2-0 up against 10 men after 11 minutes in their own stadium to actually look relieved when the final whistle goes is pretty amazing - and says a lot for how well Panionios played (and how badly Panathinaikos did). My wife actually said we might as well go home after 11 minutes - but it was really the other way around, Panathinaikos barely offered anything from that point. The penalty also looked quite dubious. Our man was silly to move his hand towards the ball, but it didn't seem to actually hit it. Would've been good to have seen this game with 11 vs 11. That said, I thought the referee was excellent - he made some brave decisions against Panathinaikos, which can't be easy in front of the Gate 13 fans. I've heard fellow Panionios fans say that referees sometimes favour Panathinaikos, but it certainly wasn't like that last night. Anyway, it was my first Panionios game in a year or so, and I was really pleased with how we played. Babalan looked lively, and our big number 15 was bossing the midfield. Disappointing not to get a point (amazing free-kick which hit the crossbar, and far more chances than Panathinaikos), but Panionios could certainly walk away from OAKA last night with their heads held high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakos13 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Ukchris, that was a pure penalty as they can get... The guy reached out his hand and made contact with the ball, its right on the camera, it showed that the shot's course was altered, it was as clear a PK and a red card as you can get in this scenario. Cisse shot, Omo blocked it extending his arm, its a clear infirgment and made a disadvantage for PAO and was play-altering. It was a dumb move by Omo, it really cost his team. I think PAO would have done even better with 11 on 11 to be honest and still won, PAO really took their foot off the gas once they were comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I 2nd most of what Cyberfish has said, although I'm not as forgiving. This is the sort of "Greek mentality" that i and others here have spoken about before. "E kala, 2-0 meta apo 11 lepta. Pame na pioume kanena kafedaki". Byarsmyr is still far from convincing and although Tzorvas pulled off a couple of smart stops (when the shot was low) the aerial balls still caused him problems. He was lucky that free kick didn't go in and it should have never hit the bar! He's not good enough. Darlas isn't good enough either, but i respect him because at least he tries. One thing i do disagree with Cyber about is Katsouranis' work rate. He's performed excellently since arriving but I can't stand the fact that he strolls around so often during games. In big games he gets exposed (see Europe and for Greece), his mentality has to change. Seitaridis is just as bad and mark my words, he may become the "cancer" of this team. He has an attitude, is lazy and doesn't have that winners mentality anymore. Cisse is a selfish prick and he's been spoon-fed his goals. His decision-making is probably the worst i've ever seen and his attitude sickens me. If we're going to win the league there needs to be a serious shake-up in the attitude of players. Katsouranis, Cisse and Seitaridis need to be humbled by the powers that be and the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikosVazelas Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Seitaridis played 35 mins.. Already needs an adjustment? You sound more and more like DUDE everyday... You uk boys are all alike :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Where is DUDE anyway? :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athinaios Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 This game is behind us. I hope that they saved their energy for Sturm this Thu and again for Sunday's away game, because it was not a good performance after the first quarter. It was a penalty but, personally speaking, I prefer not to automatically eject players (for handballs or last-man fouls) unless they butcher their opponent. The refs don't have a choice given certain rules. I had the sense that PAO would have scored more if they needed to do so. However, they gamble too much and I don't like it. Late goals can be very costly. Panionios goal and missed opportunities were not a fluke. They threatened PAO, despite being 1 man down. Our defense is still shaky. Darlas should be released, but TKate is stubborn. I watched Darlas' movements up & down the pitch.... often didn't make sense where he was positioning himself. Football isn't only when you have the ball but how you move and where. Anyway, 3 points, on to the next game. If this continues, maybe the 2 derbies against gavroi will decide the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Seitaridis played 35 mins.. Already needs an adjustment? You sound more and more like DUDE everyday... You uk boys are all alike :P Well I don't know about DUDE's view on Katsouranis and Seitaridis or indeed anyone else else on the PAO roster but it's funny that you mention the UK becuase perhaps it's a cultural thing. The mentality in Britain regarding football is very much focussed on athleticism, high work rate and passion. I'm not too sure about the finer points about what DUDE believes regarding football but I know he didn't like Samaras for being weak and lazy. That goes in stark contrast to those football values we uphold in Britain so maybe that's why we criticise similar things. Other examples to highlight a cultural dimension to my views would be my dislike of Tzorvas' inability to handle aerial balls. In the UK any keeper that flaps is considered s%$#!. Tottenham's keeper Gomez is a prime example. He's arguably the best shot-stopper in world football and PSV fans regard him as the world's best keeper, but he flaps at so many crosses it makes him a liability. Indeed one of the reasons I'm tearing into Katsouranis is because of his low work rate. Being a Brit I believe in playing at a high tempo when you're an attacking team. You never see Man Utd take their foot of the pedal when winning 2-0, or Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, etc. But in Italy 2-0 is a sign for "let's slow the game down, remain solid and not give up any chances". I hate that style, probably because of my cultural background. As for Seitaridis he's class but his poor attitude has ruined him. He was at Porto and decided to move to Dinamo Moscow for money, nothing else could justify that move. Then he moved to Atletico and became so lazy that he lost his place in a team that can't defend. Then when he was told his contract would be broken he went out celebrating with Maniche. How disrespectful and unprofessional can you get. He then spent the whole summer trying to secure a move to anywhere but Greece. We were his last choice so automatically I want him to prove himself because it goes against those football values that i've learned to uphold in the uk: passion/determination and work rate. To add to all this the greek media reported that Seitaridis had a bust up with Karagounis at half time of the Latvia game when we were losing 1-2. Karagounis was shouting at the players for their lethargic approach and Seitaridis answered "why are you shouting at us?". Kyrgiakos then said "he's right to be shouting!", etc. In other words wherever he's been he's always been a disruptive influence. So I'm not criticising his performances for PAO, like you said he's barely featured. However because i'm already unsure about him i expect him to work extra hard, not just turn up and think he's the man. I'd be interested to see what other brits' views on this are? UKChris what do you think mate? Genome: it's not just DUDE that's disappeared. Where's Loup, Paxiotis and Aek66? People just move on i guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Genome: it's not just DUDE that's disappeared. Where's Loup, Paxiotis and Aek66? People just move on i guess Paxiotis is still alive I know, because I have him on my facebook :D. Loup and Aek66 I have no clue about. I think Aek66 was in here a while ago commenting on an NT game ... ah well :( ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukchris Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Ukchris, that was a pure penalty as they can get... The guy reached out his hand and made contact with the ball, its right on the camera, it showed that the shot's course was altered, it was as clear a PK and a red card as you can get in this scenario. I really though the ball hit his leg rather than his hand - don't think the camera proves either way though, to be honest. Obviously he was silly to put his hand towards it and it *could* have hit his hand, but I personally didn't think it did. http://www.goal4replay.net/VideoWatchF.asp...?ID=33650&Ln=En The way it bounces back in that last slowmotion replay makes it look like it hit his knee. The fact the player protested for so long implies he thought so too. Of course, there's also the point of Cisse possibly being offside too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberfish Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Paxiotis is still alive I know, because I have him on my facebook :D. Loup and Aek66 I have no clue about. I think Aek66 was in here a while ago commenting on an NT game ... ah well :( ...And Green Titus? And all the others? I am glad Paxiotis is alive and kicking. I hope the same for everyone else. Maybe they all got married :PEuro, I agree with your assessment in general (even though I take a milder road). I am Greek living in the US but I share your value of high work rate and intensity. Ten Cate said a few weeks ago that you can have all the talent in the world but if the other team can work harder on the pitch they can equalize your advantage unless you are willing to outrun them (something like that). I think teams and people can make up for less talent with more work. Our players tend to slump for large periods of time. It's endemic in Greece and that's why our league is so poor. That's why Olympiakos has done so poorly in Europe. Having been used to winning at half-speed play they get caught flat-footed when opponents don't let up the pressure. We saw a prime example of that against Panionios. The players really thought they could cruise through the game and when they realized Panionios was determined to work hard to take something from the game they got all stressed out and didn't know what to do. The obvious think would have been to increase their own tenacity and intensity but aside from a couple of Salpigidis extra efforts (defensively) everyone else waited for divine intervention or something. I too think Tzorvas is a huge risk in a year where we hope to get the championship. You point out nicely his extra talent in shot-blocking (even with unorthodox technique) and his deficit in defending high balls. Panionios won just about every header in our box and he was out of position in most of those. With short CBs it's going to hurt us in a few games. He has been lucky though and that's an attribute that doesn't come easy. I've been asking for a major upgrade at goal for a few years now but Antoniou does not listen to me. I remember how Seitaridis was booed for his lackluster effort on the pitch, his blaze attitude, and his horrid crosses, so I've been amused at how much fans wanted him back. I do think he brings a lot of experience and defensive talent to the team but I can see how his attitude might be a liability. He will have to work extra hard to win a starting spot though so this might do him good if he has a little pride and ambition left in the tank. I feel better seeing that Gabriel is not as bad as I thought at RB (so far) and that we have Marinos to groom. To point out some positives too, Ninis' form to date has been high beyond my wildest expectations. He is a joy to watch and I hope he keeps improving. With a little luck (no injuries and a few timely goals in big games) he will be the focal point of Greek football for at least a decade. I know you don't like Cisse and his attitude as well as his constant whining to his teammates get kind of old and annoying very quickly, but he has scored six goals, served three assists, and has won penalties and ejections. I can't ask for much more from our striker. He is erratic with his passing and movement, but I prefer his direct style of "I get the ball, I shoot the ball" to any other striker style, especially if it racks up goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro2004 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I agree with everything you've said Cyber, however Cisse will always worry me because getting goals is great. But if a forward is detrimental to the general build up he can have a negative effect, particularly against stronger opposition. I want to see him against tough opposition (away at Galatasary, vs Olympiakos, etc) before making a final judgement. But so far i'm not at all keen on the guy. The one decent team we've seen him against is Atletico and he was poor, (and they're not exactly great, I said that back then and we've seen in the league and the CL). Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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