Switzerland - Greece

[Genome]

Haven't watched it yet (just got home) going to watch the game now and I'm hoping the comments above are good ones (difficult not to read them yet but pulled it off anyway :D)...

Disappointment ... :(

[OFI-mtl]

I am picking up my dvd tonite to watch the game...we lack quality in the midfield to create...Otto keeps going back to Charisteas when Samaras is the true point man up front.

If they do not beat Moldova convincingly on Wednesday....Otto should get canned.

[Clover22]

This doesn't surprise me at all; it was more of the same old crap. It seems like miscommunication is Ottos tactic. There isn't a proper midfield in place to feed the strikers so you had all these guys playing out of their natural positions, like defenders moving up too far and players like Haristeas way off, like he was playing in a #10 position or something. He needs to stay up front down the middle, where he can use his height to his advantage but you need the right guys to feed him. Thats the only way you can use him but I wouldn't always start him, I would start Gekas/Samaras up front or Mantzios, I would have Ninis on the right and Kara in the middle. I wonder if Amanatidis could be used as a left winger, but he was not cutting it today. The thing is they can't beat the Swiss; they're not a great team by any means but they were better organized than Greece. This is a joke until Otto leaves; he won't make any necessary changes and they'll keep him for another 50 years if they could. Best to forget the WC.

[as5664]

Sorry, but I disagree with every point lol

I really doubt we will make first in the group with this team (assuming the Swiss stumble, which they may). After EURO 2008 Otto should have made serious changes.

With our lineup, we should not be playing 4-3-3. It seems like common sense, if something is consistently not working, try something else! (No, not 5-4-1 Otto)

Charisteas should not be starting, he is terrible; slow, no ball control, no striking ability. I don't know why this player starts every match--he is useless; he should have left after EURO 2004 and remained a legend, now he is a joke.

We should keep only good strikers and add more midfielders to the team (I don't think we need Lymperopoulos, Amanatidis, Salpingidis).

Finally (and i know everyone has made this point countless times), why is Torosidis not playing RB????

I would really like to see Otto go; but EPO is probably bound by contractual obligation now. I have a feeling we are going to lose at home again (probably to Latvia) and end up in 3rd place like in the last WC. It's almost laughable

[aekmafia21]

Simply pathetic how is not greece dominating this weak ass group is beyond me how can u f up this silver platter of a group and not be rolling threw the swiss who are not a powerhouse by any stretch of the imagination.

Its a blessing in disquise i say if we some how make it threw the back door we will get in the back door in 3 games and go home an aging year after year euro 2004 squad.

Time for a new age of greeksters like pavlis ninis tavlaridis mitroglou mendrinos

SIMPLY TRAGIC and the ref is frecking bum aswell

Better we not pass we will get humiliated like the last euro

And latvia is any thing but a easy match anymore

[Euro2004]

Gents let's not get ridiculous. Greece were very good tonight, much better than Switzerland despite being down to 10 men for the majority of the game. I'm not the sort of person that blames the referee for every poor result, but tonight he was THE major factor. I'm annoyed that the president of EPO said he won't be taking the matter further. He should complain to UEFA til the cows come home because the Belgian referee Frank De Bleeckere is simply a disgrace to football.

The Vintra sending off wasn't a mistake, i.e. a dive that he saw as a penalty, it was simply a made up decision. Some referees clearly want the limelight and he achieved that tonight with his horrendous decisions.

We can harbour faint hopes of Switzerland losing a game but the reality is, we're going to the play-offs.

Based on current standings and the remaining fixtures I assume the teams that will make the playoffs will be:

Portugal/Sweden/Hungary

Greece

Poland

Russia

Bosnia

Croatia/Ukraine

France

Ireland

Scotland

With the exception of Ireland, Poland, Bosnia and Hungary I wouldn't fancy our chances against any of them. <_<

[Clover22]

As5664 and aekmafia I have to agree. I think its better we don't advance to the WC so they can finally give a big kiss goodbye to Otto and get on with rebuilding the team the right way. Because obviously they can't compete against teams like Germany, England, Spain, etc. with the way they've been playing. If something isn't working, you don't keep doing the same thing over and over year after year and expect a different result. But thats what you get from Otto and EPO. NO LOGIC

[mangas21]

wake up eeryone....we are not that good of a team.....enough with all teh excuses....its the players.....otto has some deficienies but a better striker than amanatidis scores in teh first minute...the otehr near goal towards the end (forgot who that was) puts that in....how many other openings we had and did not capatilize when it was even....

we have some talent but we just dont have the individual skillset to create offensively to teh extent that it becomes our defense....meaning until teams fear our offense they will never hang back so as to throttle back their own offense...meaning, sometimes the best defense is a good offense....

we dont hav eit...so we rely on the counter and that is just not good enough..

its funy because i thought we moved the ball a little better today -back to front....but all it takes is one mental lapse....who got beat on the first goal amyone know?

again, botto line we just aint that good.

[PAO_OR_DEATH]

yea we suck mangas21....but so do 97% of all the other teams that will compete at the WC. If it was for the best teams it would be a 4 team tournament. I mean who knows who ISNT going to win the WC....swizz, australia, mm who else netherlands...so many

btw i am dissapointed with yannis amanatidis, i feel i have given him a fair go but he is just not fit to score internationally....1 goal from how many??? 30 odd....he did f*** up big time. and spyropoulos was the cross bar hitter and samaras was just a tad too far away but i think if he had a bonner it would have bounced of his penis into the goal....i remember angelo scored a goal like that against bosnia where he humped it into the goal it was quite comical but it counted..

i agree with drakos on vitra being a cursed player, it always happens to him. Maybe he should retire and play for the phoenix.....he'd be a superstar hahahah and itd give me one person to speak greek to in this god forsaken city!!!!!

[dark_horse]

I have yet to read what all have to say but that was something this morning...

You would have thought we were taking on Spain with the line up! 5 defenders, 2 midfielders (one been the as always invincible Katsouranis) and three forwards, one been Charisteas as the centre man who can't hold the ball up or make a decent dribble if his life depended on it...

We started off ok getting a few ricochets going our way in some dangerous places but as the game went on we clearly had no composure on the ball, know can you blame the players? It was like 7 defenders looking to break down the Swiss and 3 forwards who needed to click and maybe produce something... anyway, while we were strong defensively and how couldn't we be, in attack we virtually had nothing especially in the first half. Then our pal Vyntra gets red carded!! Ok, yes it was very harsh but both yellows didn't need to happen... and again its Vyntra... was anyone that surprised he got himself in the trouble he was in? I wasn't and I can think of another player who probably wouldn't also but hey if you're not in Otto's club you got no chance.

Thank God Samaras came on in the 2nd half and he was able to hold the ball up while Charisteas continued to give the ball away time after time... Patsazoglou did try his heart out ill give him that but it seemed he was the ONLY player looking to link defence and forwards... Spyropoulos was our MVP nearly got a great goal but was a machine all night in defence and attack.

Then come the 80th min we decide we will defend even deeper??? The Swiss were walking the ball up not far from our penalty box for Christ sake! We would give away one stupid free kick after another... Their goal was always a matter of time 2nd part of the 2nd half, it was another god painful game to watch from our team...

For me it was like we did ok the first half in the scence that the Swiss couldn't do anything, in saying that we couldn't do anything else either, we defended and would look to clear... no lead up play unless Spyropoulos got a nice ball on his wing. Katsouranis is virtually a nothing player now so it was like 6 defenders, Patsazoglou trying to play midfield by himself and three forwards, one of which in Charisteas was basically useless today, Salpi didn't see the ball and Amanatidis did ok and also played Left back!!!!!!!!! Same story in the 2nd half, instead Samaras came on and actually held the ball and passed it around, A Papadopoulos then replaces Chari so we were like 8 defenders and 2 forwards then we defend so F***en deep it was ridiculous and eat the two Swiss goals....

I'm so over Otto Rehhagles disgusting tactics and what face he has given our Ethniki!!!!!!!!!! The potion of 2004 has vaporised for over 4 years now and the approach we have now adopted especially against any form of ok team is so bloody pain full to watch... I like how he came out and said were going for the win and a draw would be great, yeah F***en right we were going for a win. What the hell was that, 7 defensive players 3 forwards and in that 7 and 3 you got guys that just should not be there!!! It was do ridiculous I really pull my hair out with the Germano, what cracks me even more is I?ve been saying it for so many years and people still prob think he can do no wrong!!!! Just look how we approach these games now... it's F***ed up!!!! No play maker today simply put the cherry on the cherry!! I believe were now playing about the same as the Vasilis Daniel days and that says it all.

And here's my last 2 cents...

Mr. Rehhagle please step down, please resign as head coach!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!

[dark_horse]

This may hurt, so watch our abysmial performance

[BlueStriker]

^^^ I like the music, "All you need is a helping hand". Very appropriate indeed.

[The2ndMouse]

I cannot understand why we are so late in taking advantage of our ability to reach the opponents area and score ...

we allowed the worst referee ever to make us lose against the worst team ever!

<_<

[Hellene]

The Greek newspapers today have exposed Belgian referee Frank De Bleeckere as a disgrace. Apparently he did the same for the Swiss to qualify for 2006 WC when he gave a penalty that wasn't there against Turkey..

what can one say....I saw the game this morning and do not believe for a moment people that Greece did not play well.....prior to the send off I was actually thinking "this referee has got it in for us"...he was dishing out cards and getting upset at our players...

the same happened to Greece v Norway, foul on Kyrgiakos when Carew scored.... ridiculous.......

EPO should lodge official complain/review to UEFA....but as well know, UEFA is swiss based!!!

Yes they scored.....and yes they received assistance...

Do not lie down paidia...lets get maximum points from last 3 games...

Go Latvia v Switzerland mid week!!

[plato-ny]

After Greece's loss to the Swiss, it looks like Greece wont qualify. First place seem a little out of reach and even if they get second place, they will play a playoff against a team that will be more difficult than the Swiss, a team Greece lost to twice.

[PAO_OR_DEATH]

yea well prob get russia or croatia....but maybe bosnia who knows.....

my bets are well take first the swizz have bad karma now

[mangas21]

we aint that good.......

but to get a bit more technical, haristea is the symbolic inclusion that tells me "same old otto".... i love the guy's effort and heart...no doubt the hardest working guy on the field but a defensive forward.....if we are to play more offensive you cant expect him to be part of anything offensive...samaras gekas up front...haristea should come in later to preseerve a tie/wn.....

amanatidi has done nothing....even when he is fed the ball he cant get it right...

kastourani is probably the most puzzling guy on the field...i have seen him dominate a game and also some games i never hear his name mentioned...

keep spiropoulo on the left, with toro/karagouni snd a deeper kastourani, with geka/samara i think we can put a little more pressure on other teams....

look you dont get that many clear chances in games...we had two good chances and several build up develpments that fizzled even though we had lots of space...it why i can understand those tht say we outplayed the swiis....but there is a big difference between outplayed and outscored.....

[mangas21]

there wont be any significant improvements in the national team until:

1. rules that limit the number of foreign players that can be on the field at one time in any dometic game;

2. rules that permit revenue sharing so ALL the 1st division teams can at least compete rather than the big 4

3. rules that prevent big teams from poaching smaller teams young talent and stunting their developemnt by leaving them to rot on the bench

4. rules that prevent small teams from using that revenue sharing for purposes other than "soccer improvement"

overseas play may be the best way for greek player to improve, but leaving them to rot on the bench in the greek leauge is the worst thing that can happen and i believe alot of them miss opoportunities to be seen becuase they dont paly enogh in greece.....i am not naive enough to ignore the "political" nonsesne which is at the heart of alot of these problems.....but, at some point either the powers that be recognize and do something aobut it, or it will be business as usual...

[as5664]

wake up eeryone....we are not that good of a team.....enough with all teh excuses....its the players.....otto has some deficienies but a better striker than amanatidis scores in teh first minute...the otehr near goal towards the end (forgot who that was) puts that in....how many other openings we had and did not capatilize when it was even....

we have some talent but we just dont have the individual skillset to create offensively to teh extent that it becomes our defense....meaning until teams fear our offense they will never hang back so as to throttle back their own offense...meaning, sometimes the best defense is a good offense....

we dont hav eit...so we rely on the counter and that is just not good enough..

its funy because i thought we moved the ball a little better today -back to front....but all it takes is one mental lapse....who got beat on the first goal amyone know?

again, botto line we just aint that good.

we are not that good of a team b/c of Otto. We have some talent. But Otto seems to select his favorites and to use them in tactical formations that they are not suited for. I agree with Dark Horse's post above entirely. Did we really need to play with 5 defenders 2 mids and three forwards. Why is Charisteas starting in every single match? He is a huge liability. The men up front should have been Samaras, Gekas, Amanatidis/Salpingidis. What about bringing some new players. Ninis, Dimoutsos, Mitroglou... Our team is not the problem. It's Otto.

One thing I have to disagree about Vasili Daniil; Otto found his team and just shook things up a little. He didn't make any drastic changes. In fact he is worse. Does anyone here realize that we are the only team with no left foot (other then Spyropoulos, who rarely starts). He is the only left footed player on the team. Otto needs to be pushed to make changes before it's too late.

I have a feeling the Swiss may stumble against Israel, and we can take the top. But there is the danger that we lose or tie until then.

[Euro2004]

I don't understand the negativity here? It was a game that the Swiss had to win and we were clearly on top for 80 mins despite being down to 10 men from early on. The boys AND OTTO deserve credit for the performance.

As for calls to call up players like Dimoutsos and Mendrinos, that's nuts. Dimoutsos plays in Greece's 2nd division for goodness sake

[mangas21]

as5664, agree ith alot of your points....but i think its more the players...the coach is responsible for putting the payers in a position to suceed..in this game did we not have 2 excellent chances and about 4 or 5 other good attacking build ups that fizzled because either a bad pass or poor off the ball tactics? dont look at teh formation in the abstract....i noticed amanatidis/haristea deep in our zone playing defense so eventhough it may start as a defensive formation but i think the guys are given some freedom to move IF THEY SEE FIT.....they just cant do it or play that style....

otto thinks the best chance of winnining is defend defend defend nd counter ....maybe u agree maybe you dont...but lets not be blind....we had seral chances and failed ot capatalize....u cant ask for more 100 chances agame,,,,if u get three or four good chance you should be able to convert at least one if not two.....

as afar as EURO20004, its not negativeity...its being realistic...are you suggesting then that WE ARE A GOOD TEAM? i say we are mediocre....at best....why? uh lets see take alook at the standings and you have your answer.

I am not trying to be a wiseguy, not at all....but to say we shoudl be happy with this result well, i disagree 100%. this is not about being disloyal or turning on the team, but you have to be objective and realistic if you expect to make any meaningful progress.....

results count....period....no place for moral vitories....i will watch every game, regardless but i dont expect anything from this team.....only that they give their best when they go out there, and if they do then its all we can hope for.....if their best is good enough then thye shoudl win, if it isnt then they lose.......that really all we can expect.......

[Guest geok]

I don't understand the negativity here? It was a game that the Swiss had to win and we were clearly on top for 80 mins despite being down to 10 men from early on. The boys AND OTTO deserve credit for the performance.

As for calls to call up players like Dimoutsos and Mendrinos, that's nuts. Dimoutsos plays in Greece's 2nd division for goodness sake

[Akritis_1944]

I'm truly dissapointed.

I'm not surprised with the result, but seriously let down. I didn't watch the match, but I needn't have bothered as I know exactly what to have expected.

Otto continues to employ retrogade defensive tactics with players who are playing out of position. He is solely responsible. yes the players are out on the pitch, but he is master of this sinking ship!

He inherited a very promising squad from his predecessor and aside from getting rid of a few bad eggs (Georgatos etc) he makes me think that he just lucked out with the Euro.

For the 1 or 2 of the people who can't see that Herr Otto is responsible for our demise, then you're delusional. He took us to the top of the mountain in 2004 and when we had our 10 minutes of glory he has allowed us to slowly slide down the hill with our /\sses exposed.

We were doomed from the beginning of this WC qualification. We got the easiest group anyone will ever imagine, and we got rolled twice by a below than average Swiss team and could barely get passed a rubbish Israel.

We don't deserve to qualify for the WC. We need to finish humbly in 3rd place and Otto can either resign or if EPO had any bollox they'd fire him and employ someone willing to nurture promising players we have.

:gr:

[Euro2004]

Mangas21 and everyone else, whether or not we are mediocre is irrelevant. If we'd won yesterday we wouldn't have a message board full of criticisms towards Rehaggel.

During his career Rehaggel has shown some tactical genius and and some inept decisions. Yesterday he selected a team from a depleted squad that was the much better than the opposition, even with 10 men. Don't forget the Swiss had to win and if the referee didn't slaughter us we'd have got the result we wanted. Even with 10 men we could have won the game, if Spyro had scored rather than hit the bar.

I agree that Rehaggel has made some poor decisions and they worry me too but in terms of yesterday's game he wasn't at fault. I'd disgaree with his decision to take Amantidis off for Gekas when we're trying to hold on for the draw because it's too much of an attacking move, he should have introduced a midfield instead. Nonetheless it's inaccurate to criticise the manager, the referee won the match for them yesterday, not Rehaggel's decisions.

[Hellene]

Mangas21 and everyone else, whether or not we are mediocre is irrelevant. If we'd won yesterday we wouldn't have a message board full of criticisms towards Rehaggel.

During his career Rehaggel has shown some tactical genius and and some inept decisions. Yesterday he selected a team from a depleted squad that was the much better than the opposition, even with 10 men. Don't forget the Swiss had to win and if the referee didn't slaughter us we'd have got the result we wanted. Even with 10 men we could have won the game, if Spyro had scored rather than hit the bar.

I agree that Rehaggel has made some poor decisions and they worry me too but in terms of yesterday's game he wasn't at fault. I'd disgaree with his decision to take Amantidis off for Gekas when we're trying to hold on for the draw because it's too much of an attacking move, he should have introduced a midfield instead. Nonetheless it's inaccurate to criticise the manager, the referee won the match for them yesterday, not Rehaggel's decisions.

have to agree with Euro 2004 here people..this game was not lost by the players nor Otto...yes, there is an element of picking the same players, but this particular result was inflicted by ssome disgraceful referee decisions...

the negative comments are un-warranted by anyone who saw this game...

Otto did not have karagounis, seitaridis nor torosidis at his disposal...

anway, we move on as the EPO president stated...

Greece can still qualify and I believe they will....lets focus on 3x3 starting with moldova this wednesday.....

lets hope latvia inflicts pain on the swiss...