Panathinaikos - Ergotelis

[NikosVazelas]

horrible second half from the point Eki was taken out. No mattos, No kara, No eki gave us no creativity in the midfield.

tziolis had his worst game likewise for dimoutsos. this whole wing play is useless when u have only two players in the box.

if ur gonna put in postiga against Ergotelis, keep Ndoye in and take out one of ur midfielders. its crap watching the same attacking style that never works.

Ur playing ergotelis. not oly.

either way, galino had an easy night as no shots went on goal.

postiga and salpi need support from the midfield.

vyntra was shaky. i cant wait til moris comes back.

ninis needs to start playing now and with Toumba next it would surprise me to see him. unless we run up the score.

[GreenTitus]

Bad second half with some unacceptable time-wasting towards the end. BUT, good reaction to the cup game in the first half and, as I said, with the fans behaving like that, there can be no real enthusiasm on the pitch. This civil war-like situation is a disgrace for PAO and PAO fans swearing at other PAO fans just because they don't like this or the other paragonta is sickening. I wonder whether this attitude is what makes PAO smaller rather than not winning trophies. I 'm kind of frustrated to be honest.

[MadBoy13]

horrible second half from the point Eki was taken out. No mattos, No kara, No eki gave us no creativity in the midfield.

tziolis had his worst game likewise for dimoutsos. this whole wing play is useless when u have only two players in the box.

if ur gonna put in postiga against Ergotelis, keep Ndoye in and take out one of ur midfielders. its crap watching the same attacking style that never works.

Ur playing ergotelis. not oly.

either way, galino had an easy night as no shots went on goal.

postiga and salpi need support from the midfield.

vyntra was shaky. i cant wait til moris comes back.

ninis needs to start playing now and with Toumba next it would surprise me to see him. unless we run up the score.

mazi sou vazela mou.... kai ton ronaldo na paroume an den tou dinoun tin mpala oi mesoi den ginete tipota... isos o eki eprepe na paiksei pio mprosta ligo

[athinaios]

Sorry, I stayed up unti 4 am last night (this morning), and I had to snooze :la: Did I miss anything good? :blink:

I'm putting my shades on and going out in the sun. (still sunny in NY)

Speaking of shades, have you heard the song, "the future is so bright I've got to wear shades"?!!! :LOL:

Don't worry gents, better days will come. Zeus is always right! Every time I ask him, his answers are always right!

1. Yes

2. No

3. Wait

:nw: :LOL:

[MadBoy13]

Sorry, I stayed up unti 4 am last night (this morning), and I had to snooze :la:  Did I miss anything good?  :blink:

I'm putting my shades on and going out in the sun. (still sunny in NY)

Speaking of shades, have you heard the song, "the future is so bright I've got to wear shades"?!!! :LOL:

Don't worry gents, better days will come. Zeus is always right! Every time I ask him, his answers are always right!

1. Yes

2. No

3. Wait

:nw:  :LOL:

emeis sto CT exoume few clouds... why??? damn 24 degrees.. :P

[athinaios]

emeis sto CT exoume few clouds... why??? damn 24 degrees..  :P

Oh, yeah, it's freezing out there (in NYC too), but it's sunny and I need to get out to go for a drive.

New York looks much prettier on a crisp, clear day. :tup:

[MadBoy13]

Oh, yeah, it's freezing out there (in NYC too), but it's sunny and I need to get out to go for a drive.

New York looks much prettier on a crisp, clear day. :tup:

man, NY panta einai hot!!!! eisai astoria konta?

[cyberfish]

In upstate NY we got our bimonthly sun quota. Next appearance will probably be a couple of months from now. Shades on, I am glad I stayed in school and I don't have to work weekends. Nikovazela, I feel for you man.

About the game, I look at it in context. I am glad we are putting the Oly loss behind us, and I liked the urgency I saw in the first half. I wish we played better in the second, but honestly with such gloomy events in the past week, not to mention the emotional capital the players invested in the last two games against Olympiakos, I am happy to take the win and to move on.

Ergotelis managed only one out-of-balance header all game long, so I think focusing on the positives is a more constructive. I agree about the fans to a certain extend. Being a long time fan I know these who heckle at the stadium are not the only kind. Unfortunately, they have managed to push the rest out of the stands, so we have to endure them.

This game was a success story for Pao. Ergotelis did absolutely nothing, the team looked aggressive in the first half, and it's hard to think they were not affected by the fan hostility.

Ivanschitz was fantastic once again. Gonzales played a very good game next to Mantzios, Goumas dominated, and Salpigidis was excellent. Dimoutsos, Vintra, Seric had a mediocre game, Tziolis had good and bad moments, and N'doye must learn to simplify his game when he has the ball in the box. The things he does and work outside the box, are counterproductive and give defenders the advantage when he is in the box. He is still young though, and I think this is the first time he plays as a striker so I see a lot of room for improvement.

I can't help thinking that Postiga would have nailed a couple of these chances that N'doye was served in the first half. Postiga looked good and fancy, but he got no service whatsoever.

And those who missed the game, I give you, Gonzales!

[MadBoy13]

o petropoulos itan stin leoforo!!! malista evale kai goal me to aigalaio kai amesos meta pige kai eide tin panatha.. :D

[MadBoy13]

i Kaneli eipe kati korifaio: "na 'ne kala o Agios Salpiggidis pou exei mia kardia.. TOSI" :tup:

[drakos13]

mozart is playing great...we better dish the money out this summer to keep him...he has looked on form recently...

Andreas really is a great player, definitly the top left winger in the league IMO. It takes us so f***** long and sorting through transfers to find players that make the difference, we HAVE to sign him!

as for game.......we dominated, but Im concerned we cant finish. Sadly I dont think Postiga is a solution to this either, I think were best off with Ndoye and Salpi up top, despite Ndoye not finishing he makes space and we are getting chances with him up there... we need a finisher...

[athinaios]

... so, see? things work out in the end.

I agree with your other points, and I see that you agree with me that Zeus is always right [remember? 1. Yes, 2. No, 3. WAIT]...

except that sometimes the wait wastes a lot of time..

PS>NYC is a special place, but it's gritty and at times rough around the edges. The thing is that's very diverse and you can find anything you want to your liking. It's funny when I hear people from Greece who go to Fifth Avenue shopping and to Greek Astoria for coffee saying they've seen NY! :LOL:

[cyberfish]

I guess we must be the "party" team. Another opponent came to the show high:

"

[MadBoy13]

damn... cocaine???? :nono:

[cyberfish]

For the record: Anyfandakis was banned for two years. Today's reports: http://www.sport.gr/default.asp?pid=4&aid=9261

BTW, from everything I have read, cocaine and marihuana have no effect on sports performance (especially in team sports), yet most associations seem to test and find mostly infractions for these two substances. What's the deal with that?

[drakos13]

For the record: Anyfandakis was banned for two years. Today's reports: http://www.sport.gr/default.asp?pid=4&aid=9261

BTW, from everything I have read, cocaine and marihuana have no effect on sports performance (especially in team sports), yet most associations seem to test and find mostly infractions for these two substances. What's the deal with that?

I agree with banning players who test positive for cocaine...

It gives the league a bad reputation, and is also dangerous for the players health. Greek league would like to avoid people collapsing on the pitch.....Banning coke will only help that.

[cyberfish]

For the record: Anyfandakis was banned for two years. Today's reports: http://www.sport.gr/default.asp?pid=4&aid=9261

BTW, from everything I have read, cocaine and marihuana have no effect on sports performance (especially in team sports), yet most associations seem to test and find mostly infractions for these two substances. What's the deal with that?

I agree with banning players who test positive for cocaine...

It gives the league a bad reputation, and is also dangerous for the players health. Greek league would like to avoid people collapsing on the pitch.....Banning coke will only help that.

Ok, thanks drako. I had not thought of players collapsing. I thought the testing had to do with "enhancing performance".

[GreenTitus]

BTW, from everything I have read, cocaine and marihuana have no effect on sports performance (especially in team sports), yet most associations seem to test and find mostly infractions for these two substances. What's the deal with that?

Well, in the case of marijuana, which is not particularly harmful, it's called 'legal moralism' - banning a certain type of conduct not because it is harmful or self-harmful but because it is considered immoral. In the case of cocaine, which is quite dangerous, it's called legal paternalism - banning an act because it is self-harmful. In sports, they just copy-pasted these rules without any further thinking on whether these drugs actually give an unfair advantage to the user. As far as the law is concerned, there are arguments on both sides. But when it comes to anti-doping rules, I agree with Cyber's skepticism: they should stick to punishing unfair advantage and not immorality or self-harm. Restrictions of individual liberty of this sort are too delicate to be trusted in the hands of EPO or similar organizations.

I am not sure, but I think it was Julian Savulescu who said in an interview that, if unfair competition is our problem with doping, we should just not regulate it and -voila!- no one could cheat if everyone was allowed to use whatever. I think his point was that it's not just fit people who compete at the highest level but athletes who have used substances (those that are legal at least) to enhance their performance so any sense of people counting only on their natural abilities is already lost. The funniest bit is that no other than the great Michalis Leanis wasted two small paragraphs in "sportday" to discredit the man with a simple 'de tha maste kala, o Theos na mas fulaei apo tous kathigitades". Quite an argument huh?

[cyberfish]

Well, in the case of marijuana, which is not particularly harmful, it's called 'legal moralism' - banning a certain type of conduct not because it is harmful or self-harmful but because it is considered immoral. In the case of cocaine, which is quite dangerous, it's called legal paternalism - banning an act because it is self-harmful. In sports, they just copy-pasted these rules without any further thinking on whether these drugs actually give an unfair advantage to the user. As far as the law is concerned, there are arguments on both sides. But when it comes to anti-doping rules, I agree with Cyber's skepticism: they should stick to punishing unfair advantage and not immorality or self-harm. Restrictions of individual liberty of this sort are too delicate to be trusted in the hands of EPO or similar organizations.

I am not sure, but I think it was Julian Savulescu who said in an interview that, if unfair competition is our problem with doping, we should just not regulate it and -voila!- no one could cheat if everyone was allowed to use whatever. I think his point was that it's not just fit people who compete at the highest level but athletes who have used substances (those that are legal at least) to enhance their performance so any sense of people counting only on their natural abilities is already lost. The funniest bit is that no other than the great Michalis Leanis wasted two small paragraphs in "sportday" to discredit the man with a simple 'de tha maste kala, o Theos na mas fulaei apo tous kathigitades". Quite an argument huh?

Thank you GreenTitus, these are some really good thoughts. I have not given much thought to the ethics of athletes using substances, but I know where I am standing on individual liberties.

I had heard the argument that we should not ban any ability enhancing substances, and initially I thought it was silly, but the more I thought about it, the more sense it makes. But your last quote is just hilarious! Invoking "god" to save "us" from "kathigitades" is something I should cut out and pin on my door!

Editorializing from a point of complete ignorance can be really charming, but personally, I think it's quite dangerous for society when the recipients (usually young) don't have the opportunity to learn what a "real" argument could be like.