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Omonoia9

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anti-enosis

This is quite off-topic here, but I've never understood this stance. It's against the unity of Cyprus with Greece correct?

I quite litteraly mean that I don't understand it ... not to be sarcastic or anything. Is it because these Cypriots believe they are better off away from Greece?

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enosis=union with Greece

Basically, after 1821, when Greece was freed, they forgot about Cyprus. Cyprus would stay Turkish another 55 years. Cyprus was sold to the UK until 1960. The Turks in Cyprus at this chance to join Greece, and the deal with the UN wouldn't allow for immediate re-aligning with Greece. So Cyprus became a country. Here's where my opinion takes over. Makarios, did a hell of a job running Cyprus. The economy of the new nation was booming and many Kypraioi, loved having their own country. For some people, the final straw of not wanting to revert back to greek control was 1974. Cyprus did rebecome Greek for 6 days. then the Turks came, and the ellines ran away.

I myself am half-Greek, as my dad's parents are born and raised in Arkadia, both from just outside Tripoli. But I love Cyprus too. That's why I've done what I have in this Cyprus section. That's why I went from being "OlympiakosUSA5" to my name now. I wanted to advance coverage of Cypriot football on here, and I'm happy with what I've done.

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enosis=union with Greece

Basically, after 1821, when Greece was freed, they forgot about Cyprus. Cyprus would stay Turkish another 55 years. Cyprus was sold to the UK until 1960. The Turks in Cyprus at this chance to join Greece, and the deal with the UN wouldn't allow for immediate re-aligning with Greece. So Cyprus became a country. Here's where my opinion takes over. Makarios, did a hell of a job running Cyprus. The economy of the new nation was booming and many Kypraioi, loved having their own country. For some people, the final straw of not wanting to revert back to greek control was 1974. Cyprus did rebecome Greek for 6 days. then the Turks came, and the ellines ran away.

ok dont mean to be a history whiner but...

1- 1821 was the start of the revolution. Greece did not achieve independence till later

2 - We were not 'freed' most of Greece was still under Ottoman or European occupation - north of Attiki and most islands was still not part of the Greek state. And I dont like the term freed, because nobody freed us.

We freed ourselves, fought and died for every inch of ground, never forget! Thats what Independence is all about only when you do it yourself can you really acheive it!

3- Cyprus was an island across the mediteranean. Did the Cypriots ever rise up? Greece forgot about them? Why should Greece go do Cypriots dirty work if theyre not willing to do it themsleves? not to mention we barely freed Morias, while Epirus, Macedonia, Thrace, Kyklades, Crete, Aegean, Smyrni, Constantinople were all still under Ottoman Rule when we first were freed.

And these were Greek lands on our doorstep, not at the other end of the sea. I mean you gotta stay realisitic. Of what I know, Cypriots never did anything to rise up during this period, even though the Ottoman Empire was distracted, falling apart and vulnerable. And for some reason you guys sing our anthem, which IMO Cypriots wouldnt know the first thing about because they never took matters in their own hands and took their freedom. Not meaning to hate, but its true isnt it. Why sing about the glories of acheiving liberty, when nobody has done anything to make that true? Maybe you guys should sing Ta Rialia instead! :P

Although, in todays sense, absolultey enosis is a ridiculous idea. Its not practical, the idea is more of a nostlagia. Why on earth an island as big and distant as Cyprus (with its own history) would want to subimt itself to the Greek Central government, is kind of retarted. Cyprus will be better off governing itself, they will be happier, and not have to put up with the crap that happens in Athens. And now that part of Cyprus and Greece are in the EU, theres no real benefit, only drawbacks to being united with Greece for Cyprus. And IMO, as a Greek, I dont see why we would need Cypriots all the way out there voting on issues that affect Greeks in Athens or Morias and affecting that - and also Greece would have to expand/foot its defense costs according to new Cyprus addition, and that just blows for Greek taxpayers. Its best that Cyprus stays autonomous, and keeps close ties with Greeks, politically and culturally. but of course they have to get their land back, and their country back, and give swimming lessons tp all those who settled illegally! :P

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enosis=union with Greece

Basically, after 1821, when Greece was freed, they forgot about Cyprus. Cyprus would stay Turkish another 55 years. Cyprus was sold to the UK until 1960. The Turks in Cyprus at this chance to join Greece, and the deal with the UN wouldn't allow for immediate re-aligning with Greece. So Cyprus became a country. Here's where my opinion takes over. Makarios, did a hell of a job running Cyprus. The economy of the new nation was booming and many Kypraioi, loved having their own country. For some people, the final straw of not wanting to revert back to greek control was 1974. Cyprus did rebecome Greek for 6 days. then the Turks came, and the ellines ran away.

ok dont mean to be a history whiner but...

1- 1821 was the start of the revolution. Greece did not achieve independence till later

2 - We were not 'freed' most of Greece was still under Ottoman or European occupation - north of Attiki and most islands was still not part of the Greek state. And I dont like the term freed, because nobody freed us.

We freed ourselves, fought and died for every inch of ground, never forget! Thats what Independence is all about only when you do it yourself can you really acheive it!

3- Cyprus was an island across the mediteranean. Did the Cypriots ever rise up? Greece forgot about them? Why should Greece go do Cypriots dirty work if theyre not willing to do it themsleves? not to mention we barely freed Morias, while Epirus, Macedonia, Thrace, Kyklades, Crete, Aegean, Smyrni, Constantinople were all still under Ottoman Rule when we first were freed.

And these were Greek lands on our doorstep, not at the other end of the sea. I mean you gotta stay realisitic. Of what I know, Cypriots never did anything to rise up during this period, even though the Ottoman Empire was distracted, falling apart and vulnerable. And for some reason you guys sing our anthem, which IMO Cypriots wouldnt know the first thing about because they never took matters in their own hands and took their freedom. Not meaning to hate, but its true isnt it. Why sing about the glories of acheiving liberty, when nobody has done anything to make that true? Maybe you guys should sing Ta Rialia instead! :P

Although, in todays sense, absolultey enosis is a ridiculous idea. Its not practical, the idea is more of a nostlagia. Why on earth an island as big and distant as Cyprus (with its own history) would want to subimt itself to the Greek Central government, is kind of retarted. Cyprus will be better off governing itself, they will be happier, and not have to put up with the crap that happens in Athens. And now that part of Cyprus and Greece are in the EU, theres no real benefit, only drawbacks to being united with Greece for Cyprus. And IMO, as a Greek, I dont see why we would need Cypriots all the way out there voting on issues that affect Greeks in Athens or Morias and affecting that - and also Greece would have to expand/foot its defense costs according to new Cyprus addition, and that just blows for Greek taxpayers. Its best that Cyprus stays autonomous, and keeps close ties with Greeks, politically and culturally. but of course they have to get their land back, and their country back, and give swimming lessons tp all those who settled illegally! :P

1. Yes I know, 1821 was just the start, but it's kinda like 1776 here in America. The start is when it happens, the rest of the war is there to preserve it.

2. Ok, but Cyprus was still part of Greece before the Ottomans arrived, and no effort was made to get it back until the 1970s. Also in Cyprus, there's a Turkish minority of people. Our strength in numbers would be futile

3. Oh so Cyprus's geography means all those Kypraioi were on their own? Yes their countrymen in other parts of Greece at the time, let them down. Pre 1421 Cyprus was part of Greece. So Cyprus is not a part of Greece that needed to be freed? Rodos is more than halfway to Cyprus, and it didn't get neglected. Hey btw, did the people of Rodos have to free themselves? Rhetorical question.

Completely ignore the Turkish population for a second(as a hurdle). BUT, having a Cyprus would be something that sucks for Greek taxpayers? That's funny seeing as Cyprus's economy is so good, it's even slightly better than Greece's. It would tremendously benefit Greece to have Cyprus.

In the end, though it'll never happen. The amount of Cypriots who want enosis are shrinking. 1974 only temporarily derailed the Makarios train. Soon enough, Cyprus became an economic force again and Kypraioi have shown they can run their own country.

For some reason, you make it a Cyprus vs. Greece issue, but you won't get me to speak too badly about Greece. I am just as Greek as I am Cypriot.

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1. Yes I know, 1821 was just the start, but it's kinda like 1776 here in America. The start is when it happens, the rest of the war is there to preserve it.

2. Ok, but Cyprus was still part of Greece before the Ottomans arrived, and no effort was made to get it back until the 1970s. Also in Cyprus, there's a Turkish minority of people. Our strength in numbers would be futile

3. Oh so Cyprus's geography means all those Kypraioi were on their own? Yes their countrymen in other parts of Greece at the time, let them down. Pre 1421 Cyprus was part of Greece. So Cyprus is not a part of Greece that needed to be freed? Rodos is more than halfway to Cyprus, and it didn't get neglected. Hey btw, did the people of Rodos have to free themselves? Rhetorical question.

Completely ignore the Turkish population for a second(as a hurdle). BUT, having a Cyprus would be something that sucks for Greek taxpayers? That's funny seeing as Cyprus's economy is so good, it's even slightly better than Greece's. It would tremendously benefit Greece to have Cyprus.

In the end, though it'll never happen. The amount of Cypriots who want enosis are shrinking. 1974 only temporarily derailed the Makarios train. Soon enough, Cyprus became an economic force again and Kypraioi have shown they can run their own country.

For some reason, you make it a Cyprus vs. Greece issue, but you won't get me to speak too badly about Greece. I am just as Greek as I am Cypriot.

dude. the greek state has never existed before the 1800s. So no, Cyprus was never a part of Greece. It was part of the Byzantine Empire. Thats not the Greek Republic. A greek ethnos is not the same thing as a state.

The whole Greek peoples everywhere in Greece, Balkans, Anatolia, Islands were under the Ottoman or Venetian rule... What do you mean get it back ? Who is going to do this? Where is the armies, organizaiton going to come from theres no infrastrucure.....How can you go liberate, an island very far away in the middle of the sea when you are not yet able to liberate yourself?????? and when we did - with bareley enough resources - wed sail over (with what navy ) and sent troops to a large island in the Mediteranena, when the rest of the nation is occupied right on the doorstep there are major security issues - not only the threats of Turks, but the threats of Bulgarians etc?

And GREEK people let them down? Really? So because we didnt sail across the Mediteranean, and fight Cypriots battles for them we let them down. Pathetic! Fact is if Cypriots GAVE A DAMN they would have risen up and tried to acheive their independence (or remove the turks and try to unite with the other Greek state) - but they didnt, and correct me if I am wrong if they did, because the impression I get is that they never did anything, and trust me that reflects in current culture of Cyprus--- quite an awful lot. And if there was a serious movement happening on the island, only then would Greece be able to help. Greece was a TINY country back then. During the early 1900's we had Macedonia and Thrace to take care of. Then we went for the lands in Anatolia. Logically if that succeeded, Cyprus and Pontos would be next. But it failed. British interest in the island, in addition to Greeces shitload of other problems and peoples left behind, doesnt mean Greece should hasten to declare war on Britain (on Cyprus' behalf none the less) . And after the depression, WWII, italians, germans, fighting, followed by more fighting in the Civil War...you expect Greece to go free Cyprus then, when still the Cypriots dont seem to give a damn about whos controlling their island...And when we got a dictatorship, and Cyprus was entered, it falls apart, invasion, and Greece is already in a buildup so massive with Turkey, that they cant afford to give Turkey an excuse to move into Thrace and the Aegean. There are reasons man. The bottom line is Cyprus did jack s%$#! to to try and do anything for themselves, and your acting as if thats Greece's problem. Cyprus has the unfortunate condition of being very far away histrically, and other problems simply MUST go to the top of the States priorities for the sake of its own security and survival.

Youre American, so let me ask you....

What about the colonies when America was under British rule and people had enough? Did they get their country, by sitting around and waiting to be liberated by the French? NO. YOU DO IT YOURSELF, AND GET THE HELP - nobody will help you if your not willing to do anything for it yourself. Thats a golden rule us young people should know, in life and in politics. USA won as a bunch of farmers and merchants with muskets against one of the greatest aremies in the world. Same with the Greeks of Mwrias, goat herders and klephtes, vlaxoi fought ith not much more than a rifle a sword - even the priests picked up guns and fought the biggest power in the East. Both got help - because BOTH did something about it.

If Cyprus had actually tried to rise up on their island, then they would have gotten help. For suggesting its Greece's responsibility to sail across the mediteranean and fight your battles is embarassing! we didnt even have HALF of what Greece is today back then.

as for the economy of Cyprus - well there you go - less or worse, somebody is in advantage. Would the Cypriots who do so much better off than the people in Peloponisos feel like paying all their bils in taxes and doing whatever Athens says??? No, theyd get quite fed up, and eventually resort to some system of autonomy if not break away - thats inevitable. Im not saying Greece wont benefit - but somebody will win, and somebody will lose from the marriage. If Greece benefits, and Cyprus nothing from their own work, Cyprus will eventually want to call it off to run themselves. Or, if Cyprus just takes takes takes and holds Greece back, Greeks will push to drop it eventually.

(If you dont beleive that, youd be astonished at how many Italians dont want Sicily in their country being a great parralel example, becuase all they do is waste and use money of the taxpayers in the north and hold them back)

Im not trying to make this Greece vs Cyprus. Im trying to tell you its very unfair to place the bame squarely on Greece, when the Cypriots, main party involved, never did anything to help themselves. And under no circumstance should my country help that island if their not willing to take initative on their own land. If Cyprus rose up, struggled and cried for help THEN you could blame Greece. But as Cyprus never bothered to start their own uprisings like did Morias and Macedonia, they have no right to blame anybody but themselves.

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Guys some of your knowledge is either inaccurate or has omissions. Drakos, you're a great guy and I like you but when it's clear that your knowledge of Cyprus' history is limited or non-existent then you shouldn't really be making statements like this, because it's offensive:

Did the Cypriots ever rise up? Greece forgot about them? Why should Greece go do Cypriots dirty work if theyre not willing to do it themsleves? not to mention we barely freed Morias, while Epirus, Macedonia, Thrace, Kyklades, Crete, Aegean, Smyrni, Constantinople were all still under Ottoman Rule when we first were freed.

And these were Greek lands on our doorstep, not at the other end of the sea. I mean you gotta stay realisitic. Of what I know, Cypriots never did anything to rise up during this period, even though the Ottoman Empire was distracted, falling apart and vulnerable. And for some reason you guys sing our anthem, which IMO Cypriots wouldnt know the first thing about because they never took matters in their own hands and took their freedom. Not meaning to hate, but its true isnt it. Why sing about the glories of acheiving liberty, when nobody has done anything to make that true? Maybe you guys should sing Ta Rialia instead!

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Guys some of your knowledge is either inaccurate or has omissions. Drakos, you're a great guy and I like you but when it's clear that your knowledge of Cyprus' history is limited or non-existent then you shouldn't really be making statements like this, because it's offensive:

Well I said correct me if I am wrong. I never heard of a Cypriot uprsial in the 1800s or 1900s, and even if there was, trying to put the blame on Greece expecting them to come and do everything for you is entireley unjustified. I am no Cypriot history expert but I do know they didnt rise up against the Ottomans when they could have.

Especially when there was so much sacrifice made by the Greeks over trying to help unite the Greek people to imply like they didnt care or didnt do anything --- and its their "obligation" is ALSO quite offensive dont you think?

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Cypriots rose up to the British, did they not? They got them to the negotiation table. Upon achieving independence, Cyprus sat untouched until the British bought it. Once the British had it, there was nothing that could've been done, I admit that. But in 1974, when Greece finally went to take it back, it was just horrible timing, and that lead to Turkey doing the ultimate of despicable acts.

I'm glad you finally acknowledge Cyprus wouldn't be an economic burden on Greece, and that it's best Cyprus stays as its own country. There is more that needs to be done. Turkish troops and settlers need to get packing, and we need these idiots who still believe "Cyprus is Greek". Cyprus is Cypriot. It was Greek, Greek is the language, but a new national identity exists, and some people have yet to accept it.

Drako, I will let you reply to what I've just said, because getting the last word is not important to me, but then we need to get back on track, or I'll have to lock this topic, which I don't want to do.

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