This is the end

[as5664]

Look, we have to put everything into perspective. Now is not the time to completely change the team as we are still in contention to qualify for Euro 08. Personally, I think the major changes should have come after we failed to qualify for the World Cup, that would have given them ample time to restructure the team.

Now, I don't think we should just throw new players on the field, but rather integrate them slowly one change at a time, like most major national teams (Italy is perfect example). The problem with Rehhagel is that he hasn't brought anyone new (save 1 or 2 people). Even our subs. are the same since Euro2004!

Also, I think it would be best to play it safe with formations like 4-4-1-1, 4-3-2-1, or 4-3-1-2 (if necessary) consistently. WE ARE NOT, AND HAVE NEVER BEEN AN OFFENSIVE TEAM! We need to employ fluid tactics that can change from offense to defense quickly. We don't have the midfield to support a 4-3-3, and, not only that, our strikers can't hold onto possession, that is why they always go for the long ball; they have no other choice.

With Turkey, Rehhagel should have employed a 4-5-1; that would have completely stifled their attack-I'm sure of it.

Here is what I would like to see for the future, assuming we qualify:

(4-4-1-1) Chalkias

Seitaridis-----Kyrgiakos-----Vyntra-----Venetidis

Tziolis.....Katsouranis.....Karagounis....Giannakopoulos

-----------------------Gekas

--------------------- Samaras

(4-3-1-2)

Seitaridis-----Kyrgiakos------Vyntra-----Torosidis

-----Karagounis----Tziolis---Giannakopoulos

--------------------Katsouranis

---------------Gekas--------- Samaras

(4-3-2-1)

Seitaridis----Kyrgiakos-----Vyntra----Torosidis

-------Tziolis----Katsouranis---Karagounis

--------Gekas------- Giannakopoulos

--------------------Samaras

These formations I believe will give us some more control up front!

[Peiraias71]

Look, we have to put everything into perspective. Now is not the time to completely change the team as we are still in contention to qualify for Euro 08. Personally, I think the major changes should have come after we failed to qualify for the World Cup, that would have given them ample time to restructure the team.

Now, I don't think we should just throw new players on the field, but rather integrate them slowly one change at a time, like most major national teams (Italy is perfect example). The problem with Rehhagel is that he hasn't brought anyone new (save 1 or 2 people). Even our subs. are the same since Euro2004!

Also, I think it would be best to play it safe with formations like 4-4-1-1, 4-3-2-1, or 4-3-1-2 (if necessary) consistently. WE ARE NOT, AND HAVE NEVER BEEN AN OFFENSIVE TEAM! We need to employ fluid tactics that can change from offense to defense quickly. We don't have the midfield to support a 4-3-3, and, not only that, our strikers can't hold onto possession, that is why they always go for the long ball; they have no other choice.

With Turkey, Rehhagel should have employed a 4-5-1; that would have completely stifled their attack-I'm sure of it.

Here is what I would like to see for the future, assuming we qualify:

(4-4-1-1) Chalkias

Seitaridis-----Kyrgiakos-----Vyntra-----Venetidis

Tziolis.....Katsouranis.....Karagounis....Giannakopoulos

-----------------------Gekas

--------------------- Samaras

(4-3-1-2)

Seitaridis-----Kyrgiakos------Vyntra-----Torosidis

-----Karagounis----Tziolis---Giannakopoulos

--------------------Katsouranis

---------------Gekas--------- Samaras

(4-3-2-1)

Seitaridis----Kyrgiakos-----Vyntra----Torosidis

-------Tziolis----Katsouranis---Karagounis

--------Gekas------- Giannakopoulos

--------------------Samaras

These formations I believe will give us some more control up front!

Why is everyone putting Torosidis on the left? Its not his natural position. He should play in front of Seitaridis or dont play him at all. I still cant beleive Otto put him there, that alone should be reason to get rid of him.

[thrylos]

the fact is, if you took a 20 year old professional footballer from holland, england, turkey, denmark, croatia and greece...the 20 year old from greece would be weakest as far as positioning and running off the ball.

so true.

the greeks never run without the ball

[chameleon65]

I recall Otto saying that he sticks to the same players cause there are no other ones as experienced or not good enough.

1. The biggest mistake yesterday was to go full defensive mode after getting the 1st goal. Should have pressed on. We gave Turkey too much open space and made passes to them.

2. Defense failed. Dellas should not play cause he's too slow. I thought Kyrgiakos was going to collapse from all that running and defending.

3. We have no depth, no creative passing and only rely on long crosses to make something happen up front for the strikers. You will not put the ball in the net that way. 1 striker being covered by 3 defenders.

4. Missing open goal.

5. No strong midfielders where you need to control the game flow. Kara has really disappointed me including Basinas. Midfield a disaster.

6. Otto's tactics, choice of players overall.

All these fatcors which I might have missed others, finally gave this kind of result.

I think our NT was too overconfident thinking that Turkey were weak.

I think even if we make it to euro 08, we will not progress in next stage.

[JohnnyTheGreek]

I stayed up from 4:30 am here in Korea to watch the game until 6:30, and the pout$o we received was in my opinion, well and truly justified.

The team started out strong and even without the early goal they would have won if they'd kept that intensity. Instead, I believe the early goal gave them a false sense of security and did the opposite for the Turks. They didn't improve after the goal, we simply got worse.

I look back at that Czech/Greece game, and the Czechs were clearly the better side. The only time we started playing was in injury time, and even then we were lucky.

Are we going to depend on luck for the rest of the year? I'd rather not qualify for the Euro if we're going to get knocked out like punch-drunk old senile boxers!

It's easy to blame the strikers, but I do agree that we'd be better off sending out our u-21 team on the pitch.

As for individuals, here's how I rated some of them.

Dellas (B-) he's there because Otto wants tall defenders for set pieces, also because we don't have credible replacements. The last goal was a beauty and he was caught flatfooted by that amazing little Turkish forward, but by then the score could have been 6-1 or 9-1. Who cared at that point?

Seitaridis (D-) he got caught making lousy challenges and going way out of position for no noticeable benefit! This was an example of a defender who thinks he's a striker and played some of the worst defending football I've ever seen.

So he had a bad game, some might say, but we can't afford that against a team like Turkey.

Fyssas (F) Is it his fault he's too old? Of course not. But he can be the bigger man and say "Otto, you kologero, pick somebody with fresh legs. I can't do this $hit anymore." He was burned time and time again.

Nikopolidis (F) I don't care which team he plays for, he's obviously past it. 3 out of the four goals he would have saved 3 years ago. Now, he's just a name.

Charisteas (D) He hardly got service but my feelings about this guy are well-known. He's a younger, third-rate version of Lymberopoulos, and his NT days should be done.

Gekas © He subbed in, so how can I blame him for coming on when our team was in shut-down mode?

Karagounis (B) One of the few on the pitch who actually tried, and you could see his frustration as the game went on.

Katsouranis (B-) I expected him to lift his game, but he was almost a non-factor. Sporadically in the second half, though, he had some good moves. If I were Otto, I'd play him offensive mid instead of defensive.

Stelios (C-) The empty net was bad, but his crossing was even worse. The poor guy's 31 years old and shouldn't be starting anymore.

Basinas (C-) Started out the first 20 minutes half-decent, then gave away balls and back-passed until the cows came home. See Stelios.

Samaras © Tried now and then but he's not been known for his speed, and the long balls weren't there for him. Lymberopoulos would have been a better bet in the second half.

Otto (F-) He should have started Gekkas, Torosidis, and Kyriagos for one. He called up three ancient defenders, two. And the reason he thanked his wife during the ensuing press conference was that he knows his days are almost over.

[aekrossoponti]

running into space with, or, without the ball is something taught to young footballers. what are 17 year old footballers learning at nikh bolo vewv side or olympiakos' football 'academy'? how to make a foamy frappe?

are you also from volos aek66?

i do agree but on the other hand we did at some point produce great players such as saravakos, tsiartas, nikolaidis, machlas, frantzeskos, who technically were top notch players. greece used to have good footballer but no effectiveness. now we have nothing. it seems to me we have really lost it and the turks were far superior in terms of football skills. i dont know why though. we didnt have any academies back then and pao has and had one of the better youth systems in europe.

[rodoj]

Paidia, wholesale changes are needed. Otto will not leave, but if the players love their country - as they say they do - they need to step aside.

Nikopolodis needs to go and now! Sifakis has waited in the wings and the move should now take place. Some time ago I had read about a young Greek goalie being part of the Liverpool youth development team. Anyone recall this?

Fyssas, Charisteas, Basinas and Stelios were horrendous . No use keep blaming Otto when these players selflishly keep saying yes when the reality is obvious.

Katsouranis was a real disappointment as he was nowhere to be seen. I don't give a rat's ass about Benfica when he plays like he did against Turkey. Kara played his heart out but to no avail. He was the only player who took a shot outside the box which by the way was from where 2 of the 4 Turkish goals originated.

Give Gekas, Salpi, Patsa, Tsiolis, Tavlaridis & others a chance re Otto. For the love of your adopted coutnry, give them a chance !!!!

[GS1905]

guys, it is my totally humble opinion as an outsider, but other than a few changes involving ousting 30+ and replacing them with 20+ guys, what Greece lack right now is a Tsiartas sort of player. A primadonna who plays out of trouble and gets the ball 5 or 6 times in a match and scores or assists once at the very least. And Greece now has the organisation to back-up such a player? Why?

You have two bulldogs in central midfield.. Basinas and Karagounara who run like the polar bears in LOST are chasing them plus Katsa who can play it both ways, tough and technical.

So, instead of playing a Dutch style 4-3-3 which is clearly not suitable for Greece as there is distinct lack of left-footers in the squad, maybe a 4-3-1-2 with an attacking mid behind two central strikers.

Now comes the crucial question? Do you have a #10 candidate among current Greek players?

as5664 placed Katsa as the attacking mid in his 4-3-1-2 a few posts earlier. That's an idea. But I would call it a luxury for Greece, a team not having sufficient depth, to field Katsa as an AM C.

It's obviously a difficult task to find a competent Greek AM C when the big boys have foreigners in those positions (Rivaldo, Ivic, Ivanschitz - ever-injured Gonzalez) but maybe trying a few offensive-minded youngsters playing in different positions like Ninis, Spyropoulos and/or Iliadis in a few summer friendlies would be of help.

And finally, I know my posts about Greek NT and its formation and structuring have started to be too long but don't worry, I won't call my friend Gagatzis to appoint me as the NT manager once Rehakles resigns.. :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

[drakos13]

And why so 99% of all Greeks predicted a greek win ???????

cause they play against Turkey??? Is Turkey a weak side...

What I trying to say is : Greece lost against a strong team -and every Greek is panic cause they think their team is a crap.

9 of 11 Greeks players plays in very good european teams --cause they are crap?

Have you seen all goals clearly on Saturday ? My dear friend Nikopolidis made a mistake in one goal o.k but also Turkey missed three times to score.... so if Greece and Turkey had scored all chances it would be 5:3 for Turkey -I dont want to discuss further.

I hate it now every Greek talks about crap crap crap just because they lost against Turkey....

TRUST YOUR NATIONAL TEAM - THEY CAN MAKE IT TO EURO2008 EVEN THERE ARE BETTER TEAMS::

99% is a statistic you pulled from your ass. Dont bother with that. Id say most expected a tie or win, simply because Turkey had injuries and we would be motivated at home for independence day.

Greece is panic because Greece IS crap. You are overrating your own team who was not that special (3 goals were pure gifts man- its obvious) by trying to build Greece who has been in major decline for 3 straight years. Not being able to pass a ball, being total slop in the back line is crap, and its not new trend just for the last game. I could give 1 lesser crap of how Turkey does, I care about how GREECE performs, and game after game they are extremely disapointing for a long time now. Knowing about the players out there that are being ignored, not tried, not used properly I know Greece has far more potential than these horrible performances, so thats why its not ok with Rehagel.

1 goal gift??

The first goal - not catching a floater at him, punching it FOR NO REASON and of all places top of the area - RETARTED.

2nd goal - seriously.....its slow, and at the center of the goal.

3rd goal - wow that was horrible positioning. any regular goalkeeper would have this goal- I WOULD have gotten a hand to that.

[HOLLYWOOD]

i was jst watching an interview with otto on atena and guess what??

his said his not going to change the team for malta unless injurys and this is going to be the team untill Euro 2008....

they did a poll also; these were the results:

68% people dont want him to leave but want him to change the team (hence bring young blood into it)

18% think his doing a fine job

14% want him sacked

the only intresting thing otto said was that he wants to eliminate individual mistake's (nikopolidis); like he can do that anyways???

how about he eliminates his mistakes?

[Irlandos]

...how about he eliminates Nikopolidis? :angry:

This is not a young inexperienced keeper we are talking about. He had his day and it is time to move on. No one wants to bring in a new keeper against, say Brazil, but this is Malta we are talking about. Perfect start! Don't tell me the chance is going to be missed... :(

[Olympiakosthyra7]

<_< Against Malta we should keep him in i think because we need to bounce back first and help the same players who played against Turkey gain their composure and wake the F*** up and play as a team

[Olympiakosthyra7]

Has anyone noticed how the Greek players stopped the ball and then passed it from the 5th min on???

Before the 5th min we were passing quick tsaf tsaf tsaf dont hold on to the ball and look for crosses because that wont get you anywhere

[Irlandos]

Has anyone noticed how the Greek players stopped the ball and then passed it from the 5th min on???

Before the 5th min we were passing quick tsaf tsaf tsaf dont hold on to the ball and look for crosses because that wont get you anywhere

That's exactly how we played in Belfast for the Euro 2004 qualifiers. Against N. Ireland - at that time - it worked, against Turkey it didn't.

My personal opinion is: if you score a goal before the 10th minute, give it your all while your opponents are still numb. You could end the game by the HT whistle.

[Guest geok]

Otto did nothing to change what happened after the 5th minute; he made substitutions (also putting Torosidis in the wrong position!) in the second half when we were 1-2 down. A good coach will prevent disaster from its foundations and not react after disaster had happened. Too little too late as by then it appeared that you have to make too many substitutions to correct things (Fyssas+Charisteas, balancing the middlefield and strengthening both defence and attack, which is impossible to do).

After the goal, seeing how we played by the 20th minute, our formation should have changed to a 4-4-2 with torosidis being added in the middlefield in the place of unfit Charisteas. This would ensure a strengthened defensive middlefield that was obviously needed since Turkey had almost 5 men in the middlefield and very strong wings; this could also support the defensive football that we were playing: holding on to that 1-0, try to destroy Turkey's football (this we know how to do well) and trying in the counterattack.

It seems that Greece can't play football this period, so it is better to play chess. Score one goal and then just block the opponent from scoring. We can't do anything else, we can only play the EURO 2004 system that everybody by now knows. That is what we are good at: 1-0 wins.

Time for a change. If we luckily lose from Malta, Otto will be sacked. If not, we may go to EURO 2008 as second (anyway this is a joke group in comparison with England's or Italy's Group) and then get thrushed as there will be no real fresh players coming in. The next hope is that we disgracefully disqualify from this group of joke.

In any case it has become apparent to nearly everyone (but Gagatsis I presume) that Otto has finished and lets hope he will be replaced too. If he cannot change, then he must be changed!

Cheers,

geok

p.s. No more disgrace for the proud and heroic Hellenes of diaspora

:gr:

[GS1905]

My personal opinion is: if you score a goal before the 10th minute, give it your all while your opponents are still numb. You could end the game by the HT whistle.

exactly!!

Hunt the duck when it's dizzy! :LOL: :LOL:

[Stasia7]

greece's only problem is otto rehhagels tactics and player selection which is stopping greece from playing football that greece should be capable of with the players they have

i wonder why the greek players abroad are having all good seasons for their clubs except samara and stelio but look crappy for greece

oh and kapsis? TTTTTTTTSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Athens4]

Prepei na fugei o Otto. Den uparxei alli lisi...