[The Greek Economy Thread]

The word I'm getting here is....Greece's 90 percent out....I've said from the beginning Greece will be better off, in the long term. I know America will back us up....And as for standing up....I am already.

Maybe you're afraid, not me Greeks are fighters and this is what's best for our nation....If a deal is made so be it, should not change the Greeks stand against German dictatorship!!!

You're all over the place! Have an opinion, stick with it. Defend it for God's sake!

It's nice 'pretending to be Greek' when you live as million miles away.

[The Greek Economy Thread]

Greece has been taken hostage by a government disguising its incompetence as heroism

And some people in here have bought the government's crap. Glorious incompetence at full display.

But then of course you have people like Irlandos that keep saying:

Neither Tsipras nor those of us who refuse to sell off our country are "responsible" for the suffering of our people.

Reckless policies by previous governments (Andreas et al), acceptance of genocidal memorandums (Giorgakis et al) and the actions of outside forces (ECB) are what this present suffering is all about.

My bad. I keep forgetting. It's always somebody else's fault. Some people don't even have the guts to stand up and defend their vote. Forget the fact that he's been advocating that Greece leave the eurozone from the beginning. I guess he thought we would just say thank you and walk out of there and start next day with a clean slate. Well, it's not going to go down like that.

Get ready for an extended period of misery. Get ready for a time of injustice. Get ready for a time where democracy will seize to exist (you've seen Syriza/Anel making a dry run at it for six months now).

And if that's what you wanted all along, stand up like a man and defend your opinion. Otherwise cut the chickenshit 'it's somebody else's fault' cowardly blame game.

[The Greek Economy Thread]

SYRIZA is playing games, dangerous games. And i do not have any confidence that they know what they are actually doing.

Games are over my friend. Tsipras just drove the country off the cliff.

It will take the people of Greece a few days to realize what's going on. But this is it. Let the misery begin.

Those advocating for Tsipras and his referendum can now stand up and assume their part of responsibility for the suffering of a people.

[The Greek Economy Thread]

You seem to have a real problem with anyone disagreeing with you.  It's an internet forum.  And people have their opinions.  And it's a politics thread!  Just accept it.

 

Your "I'm going to give it to him" style of posting with anyone that disagrees with you is over the top.  You have some good points, so just make them.  No need to be so combative all the time.  Or do you just enjoy the verbal jousting ?  Just saying.

I defend my opinions Bananas. With tooth and claw. I do not attack people for their opinions. I call out ignorance when somebody posts something that is not substantiated with logical arguments. And yes, I do enjoy a debate. If I crossed the line and personally insulted somebody, I apologize. If I insulted somebody's political, religious or other beliefs, then so be it.

 

]Jimmy, if the criteria for posting on this thread are that you need to have spent x amount of days, months or years living in Greece before you can post, you're going to have a very quiet thread with not many posts. Where is the cut off ? Can one post if they've lived in Greece for 5 years, but it was 20 years ago ? Or can they post if they lived there for 2 years, 5 years ago ? Is there a formula ?

Good argument, but that's not the point. The point I'm making is that if somebody is not knowledgeable on a subject they should not try to make arguments they cannot substantiate. IT's easy to spot out ignorance on a subject.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

And so the count-down starts. Tsipras fooled the people once again, and this Greek government can kiss Europe goodbye.

[The Greek Economy Thread]

Arsi, burzi kai loulas...

Nice, very grown up. What's the next thing you will do? Stick out your tongue?

And since we've come down to personal situations: I am sick. The doctor gives me medicine that makes me far worse. Why on Earth would I continue in the future, to take the same medicine that didn't work in the past???

Sorry to hear that (you are sick), but I don't see you jumping off the cliff (or balcony). Why, according to your logic, should Greece commit suicide?

 

I lived for years with drachmas and never knew any Greek who starved.

Fear-mongering tactics are all you

[The Greek Economy Thread]

Spending went out of control during the Andreas Papandreou government. Funds provided for investment were wasted on handouts. Assignments to the public sector were made without regard to cost - or necessity. Billions were lost in embezzlement scandals that were conveniently forgotten. Spending increased even more during election years.

 

After those years, it was difficult to get back to 1970s levels since interest had to be paid on those debts, public sector workers were not dismissed, etc. And future PMs did nothing to recover what was lost. We reached that point in the graph where the ascent gets steep.

 

In 2004, Greece entered the euro and was able to borrow at 0.5%. That made borrowing lucrative however, when the bankers eventually hiked the rate all the way to 7%, the country was unable to make even minimum payments.

 

Did I go to fast?

Nobody disagrees as to what happened my dear 'let's kiss Putin's ass' friend. We disagree on how to go forward and what makes sense. Cheap slogans are not logical arguments (as athinaios correctly has pointed out)

[The Greek Economy Thread]

What "sovereign nation" are we talking about when are forced to go against our own interests concerning Russia?

 

Holy f*cking s%$#!!  You're one of those guys ! How far back do you go? Bring back the Byzantine Empire?

 

 

What "sovereign nation" are we talking about when everything is dictated from Brussels and Berlin and Angela Merkel wants us to change our constitution to say foreign lenders get preference over Greeks???

 

Do you know anything of those regions called Macedonia, Aegean islands, Eastern Thrace? How about Epirus? Does that ring a bell? Do you think a failed state we be able to defend itself?

[The Greek Economy Thread]

This one is a no-brainer, folks!

 

How's the weather in Antrim, N. Ireland these days? Are you comfortable and far away enough not to inhale smoke from Greece going up in flames?

 

Whatever choice the Greek people make (because let's face it, me and you are not directly affected by all this) they'll have to live with it for the next 50-100 years. That's if Greece survives as a sovereign country.

[The Greek Economy Thread]

Jim Adams, are you blaming the current government for the mess Greece is in? They have been in power for less than 5 months....

I am blaming the current government for lying to the people and knowingly driving the country off the cliff. There is a left wing agenda to take the country to an authoritarian style of government, and they will not stop at anything. No human lives, or 'collateral' cost is going to stop them.  

[Greek Referendum - Vote Now.]

 Probably only in your wet dreams.

Was that even necessary? 

[Greek Referendum - Vote Now.]

No one really knows what dumping the Euro for the drachma will mean. Hyperinflation, a lack of foreign credit/investment, massive decrease in imports of necessities etc.

 

Everybody knows what it will mean. There have been precedents. Does the Argentine great depression of 1998?2002 ring any bells? So far, it's playing out the same way.  Does anybody have any reason to believe that it's not going to turn out the same? Riots and political turmoil? I just pray that it doesn't manifest itself into a full fledged civil war.

 

I can't predict the future, but if history is of any guidance, we (the Greeks) should brace for the worst.

[The Greek Economy Thread]

 

They sucked away the dignity from the Greek people. All so that left wing Hugo Chavez-style politics can hang onto power and change this once proud country to a Banana Republic.

 

For those that do read Greek, here is a very interesting article by

[The Greek Economy Thread]

^ It has since been officially denied. Another scaremongering tactic or just wild speculation?

Now, here's on of the biggest jokes ever uttered. Officially denied? By whom? By a zero credibility government. The same government that said capital controls will never be imposed, and that the Europeans would be shaking at the thought of our departure from the EU? The same government that said " we will negotiate a better deal immediately after we win the elections!" ?

 

[The Greek Economy Thread]

 It reads: "Money or I'll shoot myself" (cover of German Magazine Handelsblatt) (Sorry Akritis_1944, but I consider this humoristic - tragically so, but still reflects reality). 

[The Greek Economy Thread]

Jim you have posted the obvious on most of your posts....REFORMS REFORMS REFORMS, what I'm asking you is....If the youth unemployment stays at 45 percent for the next 20 years....Even with hair cuts and REFORMS....Why would the youth stick it out? Wouldn't you look for greener pastures?

If our youth who's the future of the land keeps leaving the country....How will we make sure that the migrants and immigrants don't become majority....And the Greeks minority?

Please jim for once can you answer the tough questions???

The whole purpose of reforms and a 'haircut' is to avoid that senario.  That's the best I can do in answering hypothetical (what-if) questions.  But Greece is going to suffer either way. Whether they stay with EU or not. The only question is how much and for how long?

[The Greek Economy Thread]

SYRIZA called for referendum in order to prevent government collapse - or in other words party preservation. Forget what's good for the Greek people. As long as Tsipras and SYRIZA stay in power.

 

Read on Ethnos:

[The Greek Economy Thread]

[The Greek Economy Thread]

Don't know if it's true or not: Rumors have it that the Turkish speaking population of Thrace will be voting  for "No" following a Turkish directed effort to inflict damage on Greece and the EU. As I said, could be bull...

[The Greek Economy Thread]

If Greece played ball - which it clearly is not doing -  and showed signs of cooperation and reforms, there would be huge pressure on the debt holders for a 'haircut' - debt write-off. The pressure is exerted from the IMF, US and from within the EU.

Greece is not cooperating. Everything else is mute.

[The Greek Economy Thread]

My previous answer is as clearcut as it gets. If that equates to Germany for your, that's fine. Dropping the EU will bring Greece to Northern Rhodesia levels - Northern Rhodesia is what Zambia was before it became Zambia.

 

So, just because you'd like to see Rome burning doesn't mean there are no ways out, my little Nero.

[The Greek Economy Thread]

On the new stands in Nazitowns all across the fascist world!

Thanks for trashing this forum with trashy memes.

You are welcome. As they say, one man's trash is another man's treasure. What you find insulting, is another person's motivation to change things in life. I appeal to the people that appreciate such creative expressions. 

[The Greek Economy Thread]

Maybe Jim you have some constructive ideas on how Greece will pay the 380 billion debt? What should they do?

If you're the man in charge, how do you begin to turn this crisis around?

 

You know, I can barely remember when I got such an easy question last and was asked to answer.

 

The answer my friend is REFORMS, REFORMS, REFORMS.

 

The is no way Greece can build a modern day economy when its abiding by a medieval mentality. Trim down the public sector, build competitive industries. This is not about working hard. This is about working efficiently.

And right now, no politician in Greece has the balls to tackle the bull by the horns. The Europeans are already calling for Tsipras to be toppled with a new technocratic government in place. It might be a better option than having the military take over, but let's see the "does mess with my freedom" Greeks deal with it. 

 

Right now it seems that the referendum will be split down the middle, or just a small margin either way. Let's just hope this doesn't lead to another civil war.

 

So, back to your question my dear jvc... The answer in six words or less is "No reforms, no Greece." As sad as it sounds, it seems to be headed that way. And we can thank all the recent governments and politicians for it, but mostly Tsipras and his cronies for driving the car off the cliff in a "Thelma and Louise" grand finale type ending.

[The Greek Economy Thread]

Here's a nice one. It's on the newsstand now!

 

[The Greek Economy Thread]

If they leave they can negotiate a 40 percent haircut no problem....Way better off.

I guess the people of Ireland, Portugal and Spain are all jackasses for not opting to drop out of the euro?

Or is it that these forums are host to the smartest people around?

[The Greek Economy Thread]

From the BBC:IMF says extra 50bn euros needed

"Greece will need an extra 50bn euros ($55bn) over the next three years to stabilise its finances under the existing, disputed bailout plans, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) says."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33373390

 

My God, they are f**ked! Anybody feel like thanking SYRIZA/ANEL for adding to the tab?