How much of a fluke is Euro 2004?

[PAOK_Fan]

Following the National Teams embaressing display agains Australia, and overall disappointing displays since the 'glory days' of Euro 2004, how much of a 'one off' is Euro 2004 starting to look like now, rather then the start of an era of greatness like we d hoped for and perhaps mistakenly expected.. What do you guys think ?

[Iliana]

Euro 2004: the right people, at the right time, at the right place.

[Irlandos]

We are at a rebuilding stage since most of the Euro 2004 winners belong to the 30-something crowd. In short: don't expect much in friendlies from the NT.

[evalagoal]

Iliana,

You're exactly right on that. It was their time to shine and they made the most of the situation. Now at this time it's Ottos time to set the team and get these guys mentally ready. And at the moment he has not done so.

I'm a BIG fan of bringing in some guys that are hungry to play for the NT. Someone who is going to sacrifice their soul to play for Greece...

[mark_r_]

Euro 2004 was no fluke. We played with passion, heart and soul that whole tournament. Did we have some luck? ABSOLOUTELY but which team has won a Euro or WC or Champions League without some form of luck as well? ... We need to remember what HELLAS achieved during Euro 2004 was massive ... It was one of the greatest upsets in modern sport history. Nothing to be taken lightly from a country of only 10 million people, whose domestic football league hasn

[aek21]

Samaras was nervous, what do you expect though he was playing in front of nearly 100 000 people. Salpigidis tired to do too mcuh to get Otto's attention, obviously he wants a spot on the first team, agressiveness is good, but doing more than you need to for no result in worthless. Amanatidis was barely in the game, actually he was a waste of a sub, but he should be given more of a chance, 10 minutes is nothing. Gekas was the same as Samaras, too nervous. In theory Otto has set-up a good attack, the thing is our opponents know how to shut it down and personally I don't see things changing unless you change our entire approach to the game. Long balls are a great way of attacking, it applies presure on the defence and really pushes the team back into their own end as long as you keep possesion and the ball in their end. It's the reason why Zagorakis and Dellas are the focal points of the team, you take out both and you lose an entire dimension to our attack. It's also good way to move the ball up quickly before a team can get enough guys behind, thing is guys are getting behind before we send the ball up and our forwards end up facing 5 guys (like I said earlier teams know how to defend it). That's why I like Vryzas, the ball goes up to him atleast he can hold the ball for a while he dsuperb at sheilding the ball. Samaras was outplayed, each time the ball went to him he lost it right away. Man City uses the long ball, so I hope he does stay there so he can get into practice. This isn't the eredivise, you don't have space and he will learn to cope with that in the epl, since now he is a target man and hopefully he can grow off this. Charisteas did a little better than Samaras, his nerves weren't shaken, he can cope under pressure. Problem with Chari was he couldn't do anything with the ball when he had it and couldn't win it for the most part in the air. Chari might be in a slump now but on his day he is by far (not even arguable) Greece's best weapon up front, I'd rather keep him upfront than put in guys who aren't as capable as this man.

Otto said something about the team showing up for a vacation, which is bullshit. Guys are fighting for a spot on the first 11 for qualifying in these games. Zagorakis I hope doesn't retire, we truly do still need him, no adequate replacemnet for what he offers.

[TheCity1924]

Lets not talk about the Euro being a fluke. It was well deserved from a group of players that were hungry. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Antypas]

I agree that we did win Euro because we played hard and yes we did have luck. But you cannot say it was a fluke because nobody beats all the top world class teams just like that. What i think we need is a fresh start. Dump all the old players, not that they arent good its just that we need to start over with some people that want to compete for their position, alot of the players now have nothing to worry about, their positions are locked. But if you bring in fresh players, more competion for playing time, the players will play harder and play with more heart.

[savas]

well said illiana.

as a PAOK player said at a training session this week before the aus v greece match when asked "irthate na paxete?" the answer "trixes katsares!!"

It was dissapointing to loose to Australia. The atmposphere around melbourne before the game was great. Good to see all the greeks gathering together and then marching to the ground with a police escort. fantastic stuff. And like true greeks, we partying on into the nite at various greek nitespots. At the end of the day, it was a friendly game and we got to see the "kings of Europe" and also to fairwell and wish australia the best at the world cup.

Greece didnt play well, 2nd half was a lot better though. Australia had the motivation for this game, depsite all this, lets not forget they only won 1-0 to a freak goal.

next stop old trafford i believe.

3-0 loss ????

[mark_r_]

Otto said something about the team showing up for a vacation, which is bullshit.  Guys are fighting for a spot on the first 11 for qualifying in these games.  Zagorakis I hope doesn't retire, we truly do still need him, no adequate replacemnet for what he offers.

I agree with a lot you said ... but i still believe there is some truth in the players did come for a holiday ... they arent playing for their spots just yet, soon they will be though. As for being nervous because they played in front of 95,000 ppl (who 50% were in blue and white) ... i think is a cop out ... these are professionals players ... wether u play in front of 1,000 or 100,000 should not make a difference to your game .... most of them played in the Euro final and won .. nerves has nothing to do with it.

Just because its a friendly doesnt mean you shouldnt come to play ... when you put on the ethniki jumper (whatever country it is) ... you are no longer representing just yourself but the whole country and its ppl .... you need to play with passion, hunger and soul .... if u do this, win, loose or draw ... everyone will be happy with the efforts of the team ........ You're Euro champs (the team was very similar in the lineup) ... show them it wasn't a fluke ... play like champions ... not part time chumps ..... Thing is we wern't beat by a better side ... if had we played to our best ability and lost 3-0 by a better side ... i would of felt less robbed than the relaxed performance we gave especialy in the 1st half.

I was born here in Australia .... but i couldnt care less about the Aussie team ... this country nor its mixed-race of ppl do not represent me ...... DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE FIRST QUESTION UR ASKED WHEN U MET SOMEONE NEW HERE IN AUSTRALIA IS? "What nationality are you?" (which by its veyr nature assumes u are not an Australian) .... and u answer greek, italian, lebo, indian whatever ur background is (ppl in Greece ask yourself this when was the last time you were asked what nationality you were??? this is a prosvoli).......... this is regardless of wether ur born here or not ........ if you're an anglo/saxon you're never asked this question ... why? because you're assumed to be an AUSSIE ..... so if this country deems me not to be "TRUE" Australian because my parents came from Greece ... then F@#$ them ... I will never support Australia in anyhting they do ... I'm greek to the bone ........ Iv'e been to Greece many times ... and yes to the Greeks in Greece eimai Australos ... ala pote den me rotise kaneis ti ethnikotita exo .... because i look greek and i sound greek .,.. its only when i tell them i was born in Asutralia it is they know ........... So whos gives a rats arse about Australia being in the world cup ..... na xasoune .. i dont care ..... I will be greek till the day i die and support the country of my cultural background .... not some country with a 200 year modern day history built upon criminals, slaves and lies.

Most of the Aussie team is made up of stinky croates anyway ... they should call it the Croatia B national team, and a few italous thrown in for good measure ... the occasional Aussie angouri is chosen to keep sponsors happy. lol.

[nightsurfer]

Be happy and proud ...that you were able "to live" as a Greek breed the Euro 2004....

And don't bitch around guys......

It was only a friendly... and this time we will qualify for Euro 2008....

I m here and I m taking all you bets you want.....

Just write it here ..... Irlandos will act as a "broker" .... ok Irlandos ? ?

[Antypas]

yeah you are right, they are only freindlies, but we are still getting kicked the sh*t our of in the freindlies. All it does is make us look like flukes and a joke, when we are not. I beleive that we will qualify for Euro 2008 the only thing is we need to make some few adjustments such as get some fresh players on the team.

[chameleon65]

Euro 2004: the right people, at the right time, at the right place.

Totally agree. It was destiny but surely no fluke. I definitely do not agree that friendlies should be taken lightly and just prance around. Other teams play well to win.

If these guys felt 'nervous' then have some shot of ouzo before the match to relax. Are they kidding? They played in front of thousands at the euro.

I'm not confident in them qualifying for euro 08. Simply cause nothing has tactically changed since the last 2 years, still no depth, and the road to euro 08 is just around the corner so how much time is there left to make a postive progression in offense and overall play.

My view on the players to keep and release;

-Samaras: highly overated and not ready. He needs a whipping to move his butt.

-Vryzas: I guess his days are over. I like him since he plays technically well with the ball but he needs good players to feed him the passes. Tries too much on his own.

-Charisteas: Keep him. He can still do well but only for the last 20mins. Headers.

-Amanatides: Starter.

-Gekas: Adios amigos. He's a nervous wreck and likes to camp beyond the offside line.

-Papadopoulos: Starter.

-Salp: Works hard. Starter

-Mantzios: Young blood with hunger. Is he part of the team? I rather see him than Samaras.

-Basinas: I would think his transfer to Mallorca would discipline him more and make him a better player. Inconsistent. Keep but if he continues to unimpress, get rid of him.

-Karagounis: Plays hard with lots of energy but I think he's in his own world. I'm really frustrated with him cause I like to see him create scoring chances and carry the mid. He loses steam and falls and cries like a baby. Keep him just to get fouls.

-Katsouranis: Sorry guys but he's overated and I wonder why he's praised so much. Get rid of him.

-Fyssas: Works hard and plays well. Left foot. Keep him.

-Stelios: Inconsistent and I think his 'fame' has gotten to his head. Sub and replace.

-Zagorakis: Inconsistent in the last 2 years. Keep him on the sidelines for motivation.

-Niko: Time to retire. Need a new keeper that can actually try to save the ball with a high jump and not just watch the ball go in the goal.

-Seitaridis: Either he was a fluke at the euro or his true colors have finally come out. He's a disappointment.

-Dellas: If he can play without pain, keep him.

-Goumas: Keep him.

-Kyrgiakos: Plays hard but his aggressive style is worrisome. Keep him.

-Vyntra: Adios. Too inconsistent and weak most of the time.

-Lagos: Keep him.

Basically we require new midfield players and the right offensive combos. Cannot win games only on free-kicks, headers and corners. I haven't seen any shots on goal from outside the keepers box.

I just hope this team is not self-destructing. It needs to be reshaped. All the other teams are aware of how we play and the big weaknesses we have. So much for our powerfull defensive wall which has cracked.

:gr: I think we'll need lots of luck to get to euro 08.

[Clover22]

chameleon65 very good post. I'm really beginning to wonder now if this team will actually advance to 2008. Do they have the will? Do they still care? Maybe Otto's time is up. It seems to me he can't make any progress with the team due to his conservative approach. Playing the same guys over and over again won't get us very far but this is apparently the case. Why didn't he start Amanatidis as an attacking mid instead of champion diver Karagounis? Why does he bring in Salp in the second half? Where's Tavlaridis? Where the hell is Mantzios? He was able to put together the right guys for Euro 04 and have them play cohesively but past that point the team just eventually got worse. But of course I'm not blaming him for everything its also the fault of the players (away to Albania, this game w/ Australia; no excuse for that sh it).

[chameleon65]

I don't lose sleep over these things and get upset. Maybe the blue boys have lost the drive to succeed and they think all the luck in the world can save them.

I found it a joke when many greeks were saying "bring on Brazil and the rest to kick their ass". Well we got our asses kicked and our system of play was useless. Look what happened during the Confed cup. Otto said that the tournament was not important and used to try new players, blah blah blah.

It is a shame that they couldnt qualify for WC 06. I would think after winning the euro, the motivation should be at its peak to go thru torture and pain to get to the ultimate tournament in the world. But I guess the qualifying matches were just practice runs or the excuse that the absence of Dellas was a huge factor for not playing well. Otto very well knew they had a problem at mid and offense and for me didn't change things around. Maybe then it's reality that there are no other good players to use and can only make use from what he's got. I don't know about that but I can't say cause I'm not in the scenes or the coach.

Other teams very well know we have no mid or can create any offense so to me I'm not surprised our NT is not in germany and most likely not in austria in 2 years. We're not worthy being there. I dont mind being criticized for my negative opinions but that's how I see things.

It will be interesting to see what happens. My prediction. We don't qualify for euro 08 and Otto resigns and Bajevic is hired. ;)

[AEKGATE21]

Thease games are just friendlies there is no dought that australia deserved the victory they were hungry for it and they have a world cup to contend with so everyone wants to impress the coach by playing well and trying to make it in the starting 11.

But having said this does not mean we have to take friendlies as easy games, i remember before qualifing for euro 2004 greece lost 2 friendly games to holland 4-0 and to, poland 1-0 both games were away, but we still managed to win Euro 2004 ;) so to me friendlies dont really mean that much and if you go by some other friendly results England lost to belarus 2-1, on their own backyard i do clearly remember greece beating belarus 1-0 in cyprus, so there is a perfect example also turkey drew with ghana 1-1 in turkey, this is ghana's first time in the world cup, furthermore, turkey also drew with estonia 1-1 witch is also not a good result for the national turkish side.

I do believe that Greece will play australia again some time in the future hopefully this time the greece comes to play more a serious game. :gr:

[DUDE]

chameleon65 very good post. I'm really beginning to wonder now if this team will actually advance to 2008. Do they have the will?

Don't assume because the players are the same (or the majority are) that the team is the same. If you lined up the Brazil team of 1970 now they're all 60+ years old, what would happen? I know thats excessive but the same principle applies. Key players at Euro2004 such as Dellas, Kapsis, Zagorakis, and Vryzas have aged and are not the players they used to be, also the balance of the team has changed. That doesnt make it a fluke. Remember the road to Euro 2004 too. In our first game against Spain in Athens we dominated, Tsartas hit the bar and Spanish were outplayed, unluckily we lost 2-0. In the next game we lost to the Ukraine away in freezing conditions 1-0. From then on we won every game without conceding a goal! Was that a fluke too?

Todays parallel example is Serbia, who have conceded 1 goal in the whole of qualifying and finished undefeated. In fact, their manager Petkovic has not lost a single competitive game with them since he's been in charge. So lets say they go on to win the W/C but after that they fizzle out, does that make their win a fluke?

A fluke is England's 1966 win when Brazil had 6 players missing from the tournament including Pele, and England were helped in the final. A fluke is when Germany robbed Hungary in 1958 as Puskas' goal was wrongfully disallowed. A fluke is Denmark who didnt even qualify for Euro '92 but were only invited in after Yugoslavia couldnt take part! Greece's win was a footballing revolution based on a strong defence, passion, spirit and work-rate which began way before the actual tournament, it was not a fluke.

:gr: :gr: :gr:

[Tsalgik]

It will be interesting to see what happens. My prediction. We don't qualify for euro 08 and Otto resigns and Bajevic is hired. ;)

[Evergreen]

The problem is that there are a few wash ups in the current team. Seitaridis, Dellas, Fyssas, Charisteas, Zagorakis for a start.

Age plays no role. All the aforementioned have gone downhill ever since.

I'm not saying the new faces will crown us champs again but there might be an improvement on the disheartening displays ever since the final.

Personally I didnt expect Greece to become a world power by winning the euro, but i didnt expect the embarrasing displays in the qualifiers, the confederations cup and recent friendlies.

If Otto can't change, then maybe he should be changed. Whatever happens though he'll have my eternal gratitude. Build him a bronze statue I say and thank him for what he did.

[Clover22]

Good posts but I keep seeing Zagorakis' name mentioned. The guy is about to retire from international play, is he not? I don't think we'll see him starting in september. Dellas and Haristeas are not wash ups. Dellas has been injured a long time and still has a future (many guys can play well into their 30's. Look at Maldini; come on give me a break)! Haristeas, in my opinion, is probably in the wrong league. His style of play would be better in England. What Otto needs to do is start several newer guys instead of bringing them into the second half. What he's afraid of is just beyond me. Amanatidis needs to start. I would keep Basinas. I would actually keep Lakis, or call him back. He was really good this past season. Up front I would start Haristeas and Mantzios w/ Amanatidis behind them. THERE is the answer to our goal scoring problems. I would keep Samaras but Mantzios seems to be ahead of him at this point. Samaras will definitely improve though. In the back he should be starting Tavlaridis. If we don't see something similar to this for the starting line up in September, then you can kiss Euro 08 goodbye.

[Athens4]

I hope zagorakis does sto playing as he is getting old and his abilities are not what they used to be. he should settle down with his wife to be.

as for xaristeas. he is just bad

[DUDE]

I hope zagorakis does sto playing as he is getting old and his abilities are not what they used to be. he should settle down with his wife to be.

as for xaristeas. he is just bad

Zagorakis is still a key player file, and his mere presence lifts the team!

[Athens4]

His presence lifts the team, but he does everything wrong, he loses the ball and he cant pass well. He does however defend but that still isnt enough. He needs to go

[DUDE]

His presence lifts the team, but he does everything wrong, he loses the ball and he cant pass well. He does however defend but that still isnt enough. He needs to go

You're a PAOK fan so have probably seen him more than me lately so I won't be adament, but I always thought his passing was economical. If he does leave he has to get a post on the training staff, his presence is just too essential.