Larissa vs Panathinaikos

[drakos13]

I am in a patient mood. Every team has a down season. PAO would be 2x champions in a row if it werent for Gkoumas hitting the goalpoast last year, call it a crap season if you want but we were at the level to take it, it just didnt happen.. its not like the team has been way far off.

I play the sport, and so does anybody who plays knows the truth. Sometimes your luck is crap and you dont win. You lift up your head and aspire to be better thats all you can do. Its the nature of the game.

Whatever happened to supporting the club for PAO???? Or is everybody only going to support the club if its winning the title....Fans in Athens bitch about the team but do they help? No, they go to games and curse out the coach and management. What do you expect to get better with this???? Then they bitch about no money being spent after they BOYCOTT the games!!! Face it, impatience only HURTS the team. 25 coaches in 12 years....you think its only THEIR fault?

We have a good core of young players and we are going to get better. have faith for a change. whats wrong with that? and when the club does win the title whats to say then?

STIS XARES KAI STIS LYPES MAZI

TRIFYLLARA MONAXA ESY

so whatever if you dont want to support the club because its not champion every year dont. If youre convinced that the management is screwing the team over and denying us possibilities to win beleive it. As for me I havent had faith in the management over the past judging off of some transfers and releases...but there is one thing I do think that is a good idea and thats rebuilding a team and giving it some time to mold into a good squad capable of winnign championships. Weve got some great youth, well hopefully get some better experienced talent this time around and well be contenders for the championship.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Mayb if new management came in and said we are going to have a 5 year plan then i would probably b in a patient mood However this stupid management have had 10+ years to get it right and they havent!!!!

do i need to go on??? why should they get more time to make the right choices when in the past 10+ years they have shown that there Incompetent... how long r u willing to give them to get it right?? another 5 years; please if so then u and management deserve each other drakos because its people like you that give power to morons like King V and even George Bush to do what they do...

seariously if this management existed in any other country in any other sport they would have been long gone!! that in its self is enough for anyone to request management to be gone.... You say that other factors contribute to the failures of Pao such as Bad luck?? how long r u going to ride that poney 4??? anyone can use excuses such as if only goumas didnt hit the post we would have won the title... if thats ur only argument then that is sad because every team in the world in every sport will have a valid case in bad luck terms or "if onlys/what if's"...

the point is that this management have had more then enough time to get it right and they havent... there the ones responsible for hiring moron scouts who recomend dud signings!! i mean for every Gonzalez thers about 10 duds signings that come with it... do u consider that a success?? do u consider that the scouts r doing a good job?? i know i dont yet king V still has them employeed... Yet u dont hold him responsible for that??? How about the new s%$#! coach's Pao keep signing each and every year?? do u call that doing ur job right??? and u say that king V isnt tight and he does sighn players for example he sighn 25 new players last year right??? well if u consider a couple of things; like for example he basically cleared out the old squad, (e.g Lybe, Karag, Kolkka, Nikopol, Konstanect..) so what do u want him to do, not replace them?? if he doesnt that he hasnt got a squad??? and you say 25 NEW PLAYERS like wow im supposed to b impressed when the majority of them r the caliber of Wooter, Maric, Zutas, Flavio, Kotsios, that black goal keeper, anderson, bidis, andirch and so on... Also if u think about it when was the last time Pao sighned a player from another club and had to pay a fee for him?? NEVER they have all been freebees that previous clubs didnt consider them good enough yet Here comes King V opening up his cheque book signing these guys up praying that 1/10 of them will b a Gonzalez.....

Now Last year was the only year that i can recall King V sighned players with BIG CONTRACTS such as Biscan, Flavio, Serich, Nilsson ect... yet all of them have been s%$#!!!! i mean Biscan now that he is playing as a DMC is best described as Average, Not good but Not Bad However this isnt good enough considering the amount of money his taking home!! flavio is another example that can best describe our Management which is totally useless... Serich and Nillson havent lived up to there expectations yet ull probably say give them more time?? (How about will give them 10 years to start playing good football and adjust to Pao since thats the time ur happy to give to management)

In Business weather ur Big or Small Ceos/Owners/Boss's r held acountable for the good and Bad that goes on within that company.. They are responsible belive it or not for every detail that goes on within a company, if they hire scouts to find good players to recomend yet constantly fail to do so, its the boss's/CEO/Owner's duty to hold them accountable for there mistake and take action(management share responsibility as well due to the fact that they hired these people in the first place) however if they fail to take action then it must b said that its 100% there fault for not recognising there mistake... same thing can be applied for every coach we bring in with s%$#! resumes for example Scasny.... whos responsible for that?? Finnaly when Pao does decide to splash the cash around they obvously dont do there research on players; and from what i understand King V has a huge say in who we bring in... he would rather bring in a player of Flavios caliber and repuatation even though we already bought Biscan for that same position and we already had players like Tzolis, Andrich, Anderson, Leontiou ect... rather then consentrating on our defence which by the way everybody knew needed a player or two to be ready... Yet he ignored this and decided to splash the cash on a player who wouldnt b good enough for a team like OFI (no offence to any ofi supporters)... This shows how Amateurish he really is!!! yet ur still willing to give him his 5 years after 10+ years of failure!!!!

Finnally u say the team is improving?? what gives u that idea?? if u compare last years Paos team to this years Paos team then if anything they have gone much worse!!!

Last years Pao team did respectable in Europe and Finished Second compared to this years Pao team who was smashed in Europe and did much worse overall then Oly in Europe (and we make fun of them??) and we Finished third in the League... How is that improving?? ohhh wait i forgot u only compare first half of the seasons with second half of the seasons and then u make ur opinon Purposely forgeting last years performence compared to this years.... And about the youth?? the only reason why the youth was given so much time on the field this year compared to previous years is because mayb just maybe the so called big experienced players such as Flavio, Biscan, Gonzo ect.. were playing so s%$#! that the coach was forced to give these guys a shot??? this Further proves my point that this year was Garbage....

Now i would be willing to give this bullshit 5 year plan a chance if i saw signs of improvement compared to last years but like my fellow supporters i havent and im not brain washed to belive in BS....

The saying must be True "it takes some longer then others to learn"

:nono:

[slick13]

well, i don't know about you, but i'm not in a waiting mood right now.... even when we won the double 3 seasons ago, we didn't have a team, just a little better than the other crappy teams.... besides even by pure chance someone was to win one other than Oly these last 10 years...

i never thought PAO would go for so long without titles... and never PAO was out of contention since December, playing the WHOLE 2nd round with nothing to chase/show for....

i'm not going to bother wasting my team this summer tracking whom we're getting or whatever.... every year the same crap, only to be dissappointed during regular season. at least we have the world cup--something to look forward to....

i want to see results from now on, not talk, talk, and blame bad luck, the stars, the devil, etc....

of course, we're all very proud of our basketball/volley teams.... BUT, what have the guys on the football side learned???????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!! maybe they should go next door and ask what does it take to be like our other teams!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

what are u talking about?

we waited for 7 years for 1 tittle and now u cant wait 3?

[drakos13]

Mayb if new management came in and said we are going to have a 5 year plan then i would probably b in a patient mood However this stupid management have had 10+ years to get it right and they havent!!!!

do i need to go on??? why should they get more time to make the right choices when in the past 10+ years they have shown that there Incompetent... how long r u willing to give them to get it right?? another 5 years; please if so then u and management deserve each other drakos because its people like you that give power to morons like King V and even George Bush to do what they do...

seariously if this management existed in any other country in any other sport they would have been long gone!! that in its self is enough for anyone to request management to be gone.... You say that other factors contribute to the failures of Pao such as Bad luck?? how long r u going to ride that poney 4??? anyone can use excuses such as if only goumas didnt hit the post we would have won the title... if thats ur only argument then that is sad because every team in the world in every sport will have a valid case in bad luck terms or "if onlys/what if's"...

the point is that this management have had more then enough time to get it right and they havent... there the ones responsible for hiring moron scouts who recomend dud signings!! i mean for every Gonzalez thers about 10 duds signings that come with it... do u consider that a success?? do u consider that the scouts r doing a good job?? i know i dont yet king V still has them employeed... Yet u dont hold him responsible for that??? How about the new s%$#! coach's Pao keep signing each and every year?? do u call that doing ur job right??? and u say that king V isnt tight and he does sighn players for example he sighn 25 new players last year right??? well if u consider a couple of things; like for example he basically cleared out the old squad, (e.g Lybe, Karag, Kolkka, Nikopol, Konstanect..) so what do u want him to do, not replace them?? if he doesnt that he hasnt got a squad??? and you say 25 NEW PLAYERS like wow im supposed to b impressed when the majority of them r the caliber of Wooter, Maric, Zutas, Flavio, Kotsios, that black goal keeper, anderson, bidis, andirch and so on... Also if u think about it when was the last time Pao sighned a player from another club and had to pay a fee for him?? NEVER they have all been freebees that previous clubs didnt consider them good enough yet Here comes King V opening up his cheque book signing these guys up praying that 1/10 of them will b a Gonzalez.....

Now Last year was the only year that i can recall King V sighned players with BIG CONTRACTS such as Biscan, Flavio, Serich, Nilsson ect... yet all of them have been s%$#!!!! i mean Biscan now that he is playing as a DMC is best described as Average, Not good but Not Bad However this isnt good enough considering the amount of money his taking home!! flavio is another example that can best describe our Management which is totally useless... Serich and Nillson havent lived up to there expectations yet ull probably say give them more time?? (How about will give them 10 years to start playing good football and adjust to Pao since thats the time ur happy to give to management)

In Business weather ur Big or Small Ceos/Owners/Boss's r held acountable for the good and Bad that goes on within that company.. They are responsible belive it or not for every detail that goes on within a company, if they hire scouts to find good players to recomend yet constantly fail to do so, its the boss's/CEO/Owner's duty to hold them accountable for there mistake and take action(management share responsibility as well due to the fact that they hired these people in the first place) however if they fail to take action then it must b said that its 100% there fault for not recognising there mistake... same thing can be applied for every coach we bring in with s%$#! resumes for example Scasny.... whos responsible for that?? Finnaly when Pao does decide to splash the cash around they obvously dont do there research on players; and from what i understand King V has a huge say in who we bring in... he would rather bring in a player of Flavios caliber and repuatation even though we already bought Biscan for that same position and we already had players like Tzolis, Andrich, Anderson, Leontiou ect... rather then consentrating on our defence which by the way everybody knew needed a player or two to be ready... Yet he ignored this and decided to splash the cash on a player who wouldnt b good enough for a team like OFI (no offence to any ofi supporters)... This shows how Amateurish he really is!!! yet ur still willing to give him his 5 years after 10+ years of failure!!!!

Finnally u say the team is improving?? what gives u that idea?? if u compare last years Paos team to this years Paos team then if anything they have gone much worse!!!

Last years Pao team did respectable in Europe and Finished Second compared to this years Pao team who was smashed in Europe and did much worse overall then Oly in Europe (and we make fun of them??) and we Finished third in the League... How is that improving?? ohhh wait i forgot u only compare first half of the seasons with second half of the seasons and then u make ur opinon Purposely forgeting last years performence compared to this years.... And about the youth?? the only reason why the youth was given so much time on the field this year compared to previous years is because mayb just maybe the so called big experienced players such as Flavio, Biscan, Gonzo ect.. were playing so s%$#! that the coach was forced to give these guys a shot??? this Further proves my point that this year was Garbage....

Now i would be willing to give this bullshit 5 year plan a chance if i saw signs of improvement compared to last years but like my fellow supporters i havent and im not brain washed to belive in BS....

The saying must be True "it takes some longer then others to learn"

:nono:

hollywood

Over the last 10 years we did get some without titles where the team was still great. This is basically the same arguement. Back in 2001-2003 what complaints did you have??? The team was playing great and winning in europe but that occasional slip up in the league held us back... All factors cannot be controlled its a simple fact! You can only build foundations. Yes i know basic management and i understand that they are responsible for the company's performance however in football things are a bit trickier its not as defined.

and stop putting words in my mouth saying i consider it a success! again why cant you respect that there are opinions OTHER than your own??? Im defending the position of management because I dont beleive they are fully responsible for the teams 'crisis'....and you say all this garbage about me. come on man. Obviously there are reasons to lead me to beleive otherwise. I have a differnt view and philosophy about the game....I dont beleive there is anything definite in it. Ive played in games and seen games where one tiny thing changes the game unjustly, and theres no amount of money, no staff member in the world that can change that and force the result. There is a limit of influence that management can have on a teams performance. It is LIMITED. Same with the coaching staff and manager. I beleive Vardinogiannis with the exception of stupid analysts working for him and not recognizing players value is doing the rest right, and Im basing it on the facts I know about the team.

Your complaining about Conceicao. He was a dud yep somebody gave him too much credit.

The intentions of the signing were clearly stated. The new team was to have a big name player, a new anchor midfielder who was to be OLDER as a leader. Thats a great idea. I want that a team needs some diversity in experience and even fame. He just looked it on paper and sucked in games. Its a mistake. And you really think Tziolis, Andric and Anderson (who just got back into training last MONTH) were gonna cut it? No, then youd bitch him out for not spending anything!

As for the not spending we have had this arguement over and over....We signed some cheapones a couple years ago like Maric and Mitu because of that jackass Zaec who we are glad is gone...Letting him go was a great thing.

all freebees? Hollywood come on...

(transfermarkt.de)

EUROS

Conceicao - 1.200.000

Seric - 2.000.000

Bidis - 300.000

Nilsson - 600.000

Anderson - 700.000

Gkekas - 200.000

Wooter - 130.000

Torghelle 400.000

as for cheap replacements:

ok suppose i say to you : we are getting 2 interationals premier league players a serie A international, a former brazil and real madrid player, a first team player off of the CL winners, the top young greek striker, and argualy the 2 top young greek central mids.

would that not interest you or make you think there was some spending and effort going on? that was our last transfer season. It did for me. Unfortuntatley as soon as they come to greece there crap like every 1/5 foreign players that come here.

and some of the names

Kotsios? Is a great backup defender whos hould occasionally start if hes working hard he was supposed to be jus that but he worked his way into playing....good for him

Andric? Wait you just said we didnt need a new player in his position because we had him and now your not content

Bidis? have you seen him play the last couple games? I was reallly impressed hes gotten so much better since last year. Hes also the league leader in assists.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Mayb if new management came in and said we are going to have a 5 year plan then i would probably b in a patient mood However this stupid management have had 10+ years to get it right and they havent!!!!

do i need to go on??? why should they get more time to make the right choices when in the past 10+ years they have shown that there Incompetent... how long r u willing to give them to get it right?? another 5 years; please if so then u and management deserve each other drakos because its people like you that give power to morons like King V and even George Bush to do what they do...

seariously if this management existed in any other country in any other sport they would have been long gone!! that in its self is enough for anyone to request management to be gone.... You say that other factors contribute to the failures of Pao such as Bad luck?? how long r u going to ride that poney 4??? anyone can use excuses such as if only goumas didnt hit the post we would have won the title... if thats ur only argument then that is sad because every team in the world in every sport will have a valid case in bad luck terms or "if onlys/what if's"...

the point is that this management have had more then enough time to get it right and they havent... there the ones responsible for hiring moron scouts who recomend dud signings!! i mean for every Gonzalez thers about 10 duds signings that come with it... do u consider that a success?? do u consider that the scouts r doing a good job?? i know i dont yet king V still has them employeed... Yet u dont hold him responsible for that??? How about the new s%$#! coach's Pao keep signing each and every year?? do u call that doing ur job right??? and u say that king V isnt tight and he does sighn players for example he sighn 25 new players last year right??? well if u consider a couple of things; like for example he basically cleared out the old squad, (e.g Lybe, Karag, Kolkka, Nikopol, Konstanect..) so what do u want him to do, not replace them?? if he doesnt that he hasnt got a squad??? and you say 25 NEW PLAYERS like wow im supposed to b impressed when the majority of them r the caliber of Wooter, Maric, Zutas, Flavio, Kotsios, that black goal keeper, anderson, bidis, andirch and so on... Also if u think about it when was the last time Pao sighned a player from another club and had to pay a fee for him?? NEVER they have all been freebees that previous clubs didnt consider them good enough yet Here comes King V opening up his cheque book signing these guys up praying that 1/10 of them will b a Gonzalez.....

Now Last year was the only year that i can recall King V sighned players with BIG CONTRACTS such as Biscan, Flavio, Serich, Nilsson ect... yet all of them have been s%$#!!!! i mean Biscan now that he is playing as a DMC is best described as Average, Not good but Not Bad However this isnt good enough considering the amount of money his taking home!! flavio is another example that can best describe our Management which is totally useless... Serich and Nillson havent lived up to there expectations yet ull probably say give them more time?? (How about will give them 10 years to start playing good football and adjust to Pao since thats the time ur happy to give to management)

In Business weather ur Big or Small Ceos/Owners/Boss's r held acountable for the good and Bad that goes on within that company.. They are responsible belive it or not for every detail that goes on within a company, if they hire scouts to find good players to recomend yet constantly fail to do so, its the boss's/CEO/Owner's duty to hold them accountable for there mistake and take action(management share responsibility as well due to the fact that they hired these people in the first place) however if they fail to take action then it must b said that its 100% there fault for not recognising there mistake... same thing can be applied for every coach we bring in with s%$#! resumes for example Scasny.... whos responsible for that?? Finnaly when Pao does decide to splash the cash around they obvously dont do there research on players; and from what i understand King V has a huge say in who we bring in... he would rather bring in a player of Flavios caliber and repuatation even though we already bought Biscan for that same position and we already had players like Tzolis, Andrich, Anderson, Leontiou ect... rather then consentrating on our defence which by the way everybody knew needed a player or two to be ready... Yet he ignored this and decided to splash the cash on a player who wouldnt b good enough for a team like OFI (no offence to any ofi supporters)... This shows how Amateurish he really is!!! yet ur still willing to give him his 5 years after 10+ years of failure!!!!

Finnally u say the team is improving?? what gives u that idea?? if u compare last years Paos team to this years Paos team then if anything they have gone much worse!!!

Last years Pao team did respectable in Europe and Finished Second compared to this years Pao team who was smashed in Europe and did much worse overall then Oly in Europe (and we make fun of them??) and we Finished third in the League... How is that improving?? ohhh wait i forgot u only compare first half of the seasons with second half of the seasons and then u make ur opinon Purposely forgeting last years performence compared to this years.... And about the youth?? the only reason why the youth was given so much time on the field this year compared to previous years is because mayb just maybe the so called big experienced players such as Flavio, Biscan, Gonzo ect.. were playing so s%$#! that the coach was forced to give these guys a shot??? this Further proves my point that this year was Garbage....

Now i would be willing to give this bullshit 5 year plan a chance if i saw signs of improvement compared to last years but like my fellow supporters i havent and im not brain washed to belive in BS....

The saying must be True "it takes some longer then others to learn"

:nono:

Ill just add to this argument....

Now Management have decided that Pap hasnt got a future with the Green and whites!!! i wonder what managements excuses are now??? His a traitor like Nikopolidis and Konstantinou??? didnt i tell u specifically drakos that this was going to happen?? and you told me to just wait and see b4 i make my assumptions??

How did i know this was going to happen?? Am I psychic?? No its just like mathematics; you only need to put 2 and 2 together to figure it out whats happening and that is management have a track ###### record as big as the Nile river with screwing and letting players of his calibre go (lybe, Kokka are just a few examples) in order to either save a buck or waste it on another Flavio… This is just another screw up you can add to your beloved King V’s Resume to defend him on since its not there fault…

Un-######-Beliveable!!!

p.s like I said this team would been better off without these clowns in charge we would have won more titles, had better runs in Europe, better squad and most importantly playing proper football with a squad that has a core..

I rate Managements performence in the past 10+ years a 2/10... the only thing they did right was the decent runs in Europe (could also b a fluke conisidering we havent done s%$#! all as of late) which by the way doesnt make up for the rest of the years of screwing up... what do u rate them out of 10 drakos as a whole??

[drakos13]

Mayb if new management came in and said we are going to have a 5 year plan then i would probably b in a patient mood However this stupid management have had 10+ years to get it right and they havent!!!!

do i need to go on??? why should they get more time to make the right choices when in the past 10+ years they have shown that there Incompetent... how long r u willing to give them to get it right?? another 5 years; please if so then u and management deserve each other drakos because its people like you that give power to morons like King V and even George Bush to do what they do...

seariously if this management existed in any other country in any other sport they would have been long gone!! that in its self is enough for anyone to request management to be gone.... You say that other factors contribute to the failures of Pao such as Bad luck?? how long r u going to ride that poney 4??? anyone can use excuses such as if only goumas didnt hit the post we would have won the title... if thats ur only argument then that is sad because every team in the world in every sport will have a valid case in bad luck terms or "if onlys/what if's"...

the point is that this management have had more then enough time to get it right and they havent... there the ones responsible for hiring moron scouts who recomend dud signings!! i mean for every Gonzalez thers about 10 duds signings that come with it... do u consider that a success?? do u consider that the scouts r doing a good job?? i know i dont yet king V still has them employeed... Yet u dont hold him responsible for that??? How about the new s%$#! coach's Pao keep signing each and every year?? do u call that doing ur job right??? and u say that king V isnt tight and he does sighn players for example he sighn 25 new players last year right??? well if u consider a couple of things; like for example he basically cleared out the old squad, (e.g Lybe, Karag, Kolkka, Nikopol, Konstanect..) so what do u want him to do, not replace them?? if he doesnt that he hasnt got a squad??? and you say 25 NEW PLAYERS like wow im supposed to b impressed when the majority of them r the caliber of Wooter, Maric, Zutas, Flavio, Kotsios, that black goal keeper, anderson, bidis, andirch and so on... Also if u think about it when was the last time Pao sighned a player from another club and had to pay a fee for him?? NEVER they have all been freebees that previous clubs didnt consider them good enough yet Here comes King V opening up his cheque book signing these guys up praying that 1/10 of them will b a Gonzalez.....

Now Last year was the only year that i can recall King V sighned players with BIG CONTRACTS such as Biscan, Flavio, Serich, Nilsson ect... yet all of them have been s%$#!!!! i mean Biscan now that he is playing as a DMC is best described as Average, Not good but Not Bad However this isnt good enough considering the amount of money his taking home!! flavio is another example that can best describe our Management which is totally useless... Serich and Nillson havent lived up to there expectations yet ull probably say give them more time?? (How about will give them 10 years to start playing  good football and adjust to Pao since thats the time ur happy to give to management)

In Business weather ur Big or Small Ceos/Owners/Boss's r held acountable for the good and Bad that goes on within that company.. They are responsible belive it or not for every detail that goes on within a company, if they hire scouts to find good players to recomend yet constantly fail to do so, its the boss's/CEO/Owner's duty to hold them accountable for there mistake and take action(management share responsibility as well due to the fact that they hired these people in the first place) however if they fail to take action then it must b said that its 100% there fault for not recognising there mistake... same thing can be applied for every coach we bring in with s%$#! resumes for example Scasny.... whos responsible for that?? Finnaly when Pao does decide to splash the cash around they obvously dont do there research on players; and from what i understand King V has a huge say in who we bring in... he would rather bring in a player of Flavios caliber and repuatation even though we already bought Biscan for that same position and we already had players like Tzolis, Andrich, Anderson, Leontiou ect... rather then consentrating on our defence which by the way everybody knew needed a player or two to be ready... Yet he ignored this and decided to splash the cash on a player who wouldnt b good enough for a team like OFI (no offence to any ofi supporters)... This shows how Amateurish he really is!!! yet ur still willing to give him his 5 years after 10+ years of failure!!!!

Finnally u say the team is improving?? what gives u that idea?? if u compare last years Paos team to this years Paos team then if anything they have gone much worse!!!

Last years Pao team did respectable in Europe and Finished Second compared to this years Pao team who was smashed in Europe and did much worse overall then Oly in Europe (and we make fun of them??) and we Finished third in the League... How is that improving?? ohhh wait i forgot u only compare first half of the seasons with second half of the seasons and then u make ur opinon Purposely forgeting last years performence compared to this years.... And about the youth?? the only reason why the youth was given so much time on the field this year compared to previous years is because mayb just maybe the so called big experienced players such as Flavio, Biscan, Gonzo ect.. were playing so s%$#! that the coach was forced to give these guys a shot??? this Further proves my point that this year was Garbage....

Now i would be willing to give this bullshit 5 year plan a chance if i saw signs of improvement compared to last years but like my fellow supporters i havent and im not brain washed to belive in BS....

The saying must be True "it takes some longer then others to learn"

:nono:

Ill just add to this argument....

Now Management have decided that Pap hasnt got a future with the Green and whites!!! i wonder what managements excuses are now??? His a traitor like Nikopolidis and Konstantinou??? didnt i tell u specifically drakos that this was going to happen?? and you told me to just wait and see b4 i make my assumptions??

I agree on you with assesing player values being awful. Outside of that we have a new stadium coming, the top youth academy in Greece and one of the top in Europe. The team has no financial problems that we know of. Some decisions have been pretty good, but there are crap ones too like Lybe leaving and Papadopoulos. Signings have been crap but he doesnt pick the players himself. We did make a step in the right direction by removing Zaec. We are trying to make a new team/mentality. Change will take time. I cant rate a management I havent worked under or seen or even met. Youre coming up with a lot of theories and judgements results on a football pitch alone. Lets say we go and buy Ronaldinho, Henry, Shevchenko and Nesta and we fail to get past the first round CL are you going to tell me its still managements fault? Im making this an extreme example to prove the point that there is LIMITED influence the excectuves have on the RESULTS that you base your judgement on. Its a simple fact.

As for Papadopoulos I have a thread on this opened already. If you wish to read what I wrote there go there. He will be a tratior if he signs for Olympiakos. Any previous PAO fan or staff that goes and supports Olympiakos is a traitor in my book. Its PAE fault for him not staying, but its HIS signature on the OSFP contract. Especially since Papadopoulos could easily go to a lot of other clubs. Besides he still has time on his contract and PAO arent letting him go anywhere but abroad.

As for you knowing what was going to happen.....wow you must be a genius...you guessed right between two possible scenarios-----he stays or leaves. Dont give yourself too much credit.

[HOLLYWOOD]

He will be a tratior if he signs for Olympiakos. Any previous PAO fan or staff that goes and supports Olympiakos is a traitor in my book. Its PAE fault for him not staying, but its HIS signature on the OSFP contract. Especially since Papadopoulos could easily go to a lot of other clubs. Besides he still has time on his contract and PAO arent letting him go anywhere but abroad.

omg here we go with the traitor theory crap again....

its like banging ur head against a brick wall :blink:

[bar7]

the only traitor is Tzigger get through your thick heads

[HOLLYWOOD]

the only traitor is Tzigger get through your thick heads

Thank you :nw:

[drakos13]

He will be a tratior if he signs for Olympiakos. Any previous PAO fan or staff that goes and supports Olympiakos is a traitor in my book. Its PAE fault for him not staying, but its HIS signature on the OSFP contract. Especially since Papadopoulos could easily go to a lot of other clubs. Besides he still has time on his contract and PAO arent letting him go anywhere but abroad.

omg here we go with the traitor theory crap again....

its like banging ur head against a brick wall :blink:

what ISNT clearly stated here?

Its obvious hollywood- you dont want to argue, discuss, because if its not your viewpoint you immidiately rule it out! you know EVERYTHING. Besides weather he is a traitor is a mattter of OPINION.

Mine is ANYBODY PAO who signs his signature as a staff, player or fan to Geyros is a TRAITOR. Yours may be different. WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND???

and if you turn down Primera Division clubs for GAYros you are not only a traitor but a moron! If its your only option to get the salaray your calibre deserves its understandable...but former greens gone red is traitor anyway you look at it.

Maybe you have a different understanding of the rivalry but the way i see it it goes for EVERYONE equally - OPOIOS DEN PHDAEI GAVROS EINAI RE... :tdown:

Besides this isnt an issue, he has 6 months and will only be let go abroad.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Why dont u look at the bigger picture seariously...

are u honestly happy with Vardinogiannis and his Management team in the way they have run things at Pao in the past 10 years??? are u contempt with one title in 10+ years, are u contempt with the treatment of our core/star players, are u contempt with players like Dembah, Maric, Zuta, Flavio comming in??? or would u rather new management ??

because the way u talk it sounds to me that you like Vardinogiannis and the way he has handled his affairs in the past 10 years with Pao... if u were his boss would u remove him and his team of management or would u still have him eployeed???

[drakos13]

Why dont u look at the bigger picture seariously...

are u honestly happy with Vardinogiannis and his Management team in the way they have run things at Pao in the past 10 years??? are u contempt with one title in 10+ years, are u contempt with the treatment of our core/star players, are u contempt with players like Dembah, Maric, Zuta, Flavio comming in??? or would u rather new management ??

because the way u talk it sounds to me that you like Vardinogiannis and the way he has handled his affairs in the past 10 years with Pao... if u were his boss would u remove him and his team of management or would u still have him eployeed???

this conversation/arguement i wont partake in anymore.....im just repeating myself and you put words in my mouth. Whats the point. Ill TRY to make you understand my viewpoint one more time- and that doesnt mean you get to label me as a 'loyalist' or anybullshit. Is it not ok to have an opinion based off what you know of the nature of the sport, and judging off the decisions made?

Also - pou kollaei auto to 8ema why could you not agree to disagree or admit theres a different opinion out there over my last post and had to bring in some completly different topic to change it????

You are telling me that the club blah blah all Upper Managements fault. I disagree and you call me blind blind blind without any real reason- sorry you do have a reason, you are evaluating them on results of the football matches alone.

but Dont you understand? I DONT BELEIVE IN EVALUATING ANY MANAGEMENT BY RESULTS ALONE! THIS IS WHAT I SAY EVERY DAMN POST! ACCEPT THAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE OTHER WAYS OF LOOKING AT THINGS ALREADY. JUDGING OFF OF MY EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE WAT IVE SEEN IN THE GAME, NOTHING IS DEFINITE.

IS EPO RESPONSIBLE FOR US NOT MAKING IT TO THE WORLD CUP THIS YEAR? PERHAPS ABRANOVICH IS AT FAULT FOR CHELSEA BEING LAME IN EUROPE????

You are going to judge 10 years off of results alone? Tell me was it Vardinogiannis accomplishment when we DID win the double? Cuz I DOUBT THAT. or when the team was bursting through europe??? Or is it just his failure when we dont win?

We disagree on ways of evaluating management. Simple as that. By your way you only base on results which is fair to an extent in my opinion. I dont want to get into it again because I post it over and over.

Of course Im not contempt with jackasses like Debah, Maric, Zuta coming in...that was ZAEC m*****es and he is GONE now. I AM contempt that we got rid of him- that gives some indication of the club towards the right direction does it not?

As for player management I ALREADY POSTED THIS . No I Am NOT HAPPY WITH WHAT HAPPENED TO LYBE AND PAP/KOLKKA/SOTIS.....

anyways read the post I made up above somewhere and respond because its basically the same thing if youre still interested. Just dont respond to me this time saying bullshit like OH SO YOU ARE HAPPY WITH 1 DOUBLE IN 10 YEARS AND THE WAY MANAGEMENT RUNS THINGS (BTW YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HOW THE INTERNAL STRUCTURE WORKS NEITHER HAVE US HAVE WORKED THERE ALL WE KNOW ARE DECISIONS MADE PUBLIC- SO AGAIN DONT ACT LIKE YOU ARE AN EXPERT TO JUDGE ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE AND EFFECTIVENESS NOW)

Point is I dont feel management is ENTIRELY responsible for everything gone wrong, and with the exception of some jackass decisions that have been made I have some faith that things will be put right again because I beleive in making a new team over time. Now go and call me blind and other BS, we have different ways of looking at things because we are from different backgrounds and have different experience in leadership and the sport of football how they correlate towards team effectiveness. This does not mean I agree with being hard on Papadopoulos in one bit or I support every decision made. It means I will be NEUTRAL and sometimes agree sometimes disagree with decisions made. Because beleive it or not there have been good decisions as well as bad.

OK now im tired of repeating to express my viewpoint, from yours everything is a total failure, from mine things have been disapointing but the fault is divided on a lot of things, there is no easy scapegoat like everybody is looking for. Again this does not make me a loyalist, it just means Im not in full agreement with your opinion. Because Im not totally against them doesnt mean Im for them totally. So lets just agree to disagree without labeling and names and crap ok ?

[bar7]

1-managment is not resigning players that they SHOULD be resigning...

2- these players have to live on & play on & if the geys are willing to offer them the money that they're requesting this makes them traitors??? are you nuts...

3- managment is creating these so called traitors, therefor the managment are the core of this poison...

4- managment are the traitors...

5- go on & argue by yourself!!!!!!!!!

6 -HOLLYWOOD IS RIGHT

[HOLLYWOOD]

1-managment is not resigning players that they SHOULD be resigning...

2- these players have to live on & play on & if the geys are willing to offer them the money that they're requesting this makes them traitors??? are you nuts...

3- managment is creating these so called traitors, therefor the managment are the core of this poison...

4- managment are the traitors...

5- go on & argue by yourself!!!!!!!!!

6 -HOLLYWOOD IS RIGHT

Cheers :tup:

but ill take Drakos advise and call it quits... i know ive called it quits before and said lets just agree to disagree but as u can tell when argue or debate a point i really cant except anything less then a victory which is kinda bad in some ways as i cant accept ur side of the debate (which is my fault) because to me it dosnt justify u defending them(meaning management)...

anyways ill try and agree to disagree its jst that if i read a post that i completely agree or dis-agree weather its urs or someone elses i will make my point of view loud and clear... for example i think we started to debate again because i quoted someone who happened to share my point of view and posted it on here (i wasnt trying to bate u either) which then u happen to disagree with and then u began to justify management; which then i completely dis-agreed with so then the cycle began again with us debating...

anyways ill try and not argue/debate with u but just understand that i and fellow Pao supporters r really pist of in the way management have handled things in the past 10 years which by the way are not solely based on performence (which i thought was unfair on ur behalf to say) but also on the way they have handled affairs such as transfers, and letting core players go also have contributed to the dissatisfaction of management... anyways enough said...

P.S when i do debate i kinda try and make the other person (who happen to b u) look like an idiot by labeling them or callin them names which i dnt do Intentionally but when im fired up i dnt really notice im doing it unless someone points its out; which happen to b you; so sorry if i did offend you... i cant promise ill stop (coz when i debate and im fired up i just go on n on n on n on n on n on n on n on n on :P ) but ill try... try and not take it personal if i happen to do it again....

[drakos13]

anyways ill try and not argue/debate with u but just understand that i and fellow Pao supporters r really pist of in the way management have handled things in the past 10 years which by the way are not solely based on performence (which i thought was unfair on ur behalf to say) but also on the way they have handled affairs such as transfers, and letting core players go also have contributed to the dissatisfaction of management... anyways enough said...

well said.

like i said - your evaluating them mostly off of performances which is fair to an extent. I know that Vardinogiannis or any manager cant prevent the team to blow their season in just 1-2 games...I dont think any management in the world can. They cant control the factors that go into the game- which is unpredictable. We almost saw Arsenal win last night and they didnt deserve to. Would it be managemetns fault for the failure of Barca? You cant hold management responsible for single games, And in many seasons the championship came down to one or two games affecting the results.

anyways forget all this complaining from both of us and lets just hope for next season. I think Bakke can do it :tup:

(as long as we get a new CB)

[pao123]

i think bakke can do well...i spoke to afew of my scandanavian friends and my only concern is him sometimes being too conservative..this is the only real criticism my friens gave me...i was told he is a well respected coach with consistant tactics but sometimes too consistant...pap leaving is terrible for the club though..and we need more then a new CB