DiogenesLight
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Posts posted by DiogenesLight
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Personally I think the team has an identity crisis:
We no longer have the "tsabouka" to be able to grind out 1-0 victories against all comers, as we did under Santos, and we definitely don't have the skill or killer instinct to take out a team like Georgia on our own terms....it's a loser mentality we are battling against.
When you go out and show no urgency or determination as a team, you put yourself in a position to lose. Konstadelias, Fortounis, Tzolis, bla bla bla....none of them made or would have made a difference. The game was physical and we couldn't get past a group of mostly mediocre players, because that's what we have as well, only now we get shoved around way too easily. It was a game where everyone should have come out with both barrels blazing instead we reverted to the side/back passing and hesitation, where we looked like we were in need of a diaper change.
The blame is mostly on the players because I'm pretty sure Poyet did not ask them to play like this. I imagine he told them to be careful with Kvaratskhelia and be careful not to get exposed on the counter but 1 chance in 120 min of football against Georgia is ridiculous. On a plus, this should be the end of the line for Tzavellas as he is simply taking up space.
This being said, I am pretty sure Poyet will be gone, as EPO already tried to undermine him earlier and they are rubbing their hands getting ready for some kickbacks when they bring in the next sucker. There was an improvement again, just like under Van T'Schipp, but when the chips were down, the team fell flat on their faces. I don't think this can be fixed just by changing managers.-
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PAO is starting to look like a regular football club....I don't agree with the change in manager but apparently the behind-the -scene wheeling and dealing is what made the player additions possible. Too bad that Jovanovic had to be sacrificed.
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I actually watched the second half and Douvikas looked pretty good...he should fit in well at Celta and if he gets playing time alongside Aspas up front, he should have a productive season and learn a lot as well.
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I tip my hat to you Dutch Eagle for all your intrepid work digging up the latest news on our boys abroad
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PAO just keeps rolling along.....gotta hand it to the coach as he is still able to get the team prepared and get the results despite injuries. He's done a great job juggling the players and seems to be able to get a little something extra out of every player. Brutal game against Lamia which looked more like a rugby match but still got the result.
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That was my niece who scored both goals today!!!! She just recently joined the club from the States. Super proud of her!
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Of course the level of the competition isn't that great but I think Poyet is building on the good things JVS began early on, with the difference being that he has adapted the game plan to his players' abilities and not trying to play strictly possession football. He seems to have properly assessed his players and isn't asking for anything from any player that they can't deliver. He is also able read the game well and adapt to in-game situations and to make correct strategy changes and substitutions at the right moment..
I have to say that under Poyet I am starting to see why Bakasetas and Mantalos are usually starting for the NT....really much more substantial play from both compared to playing under the other coaches. This is probably what Skibbe & JVS saw during practice and penciled them in to the starting 11 most games only to disappoint. Imo Mantalos has had 4 of his best appearances for the NT. These 2 are now emerging as leaders on the field (and it's about time).
Glad to see Giakoumakis get a goal as he has been sniffing around the past few games but not connecting. I think all the players rated between good to outstanding with my only complaint being that for some strange reason with Bouxalakis (who had a good game) starting, the back-pedaling was a little more pronounced than in the previous games. All in all I don't think we could have asked for more considering the management change.
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Let's live in the present guys....Sokratis is at best a bench veteran , Manolas has been out for the last 2-3 months Hatzdiakos and Mavropanos deserve at the present moment to be starters and are beginning to find a good chemistry between them. Baldock and Rota bring some much needed depth to the RB position and along with Kotsiras in a pinch....and I hope as mentioned above Lyratzis continues to develop. Giannoulis had a dismal season at Norwich and I think both he and Tziolis are better off either staying in the Championship or moving to a different league because they were out of their depth in the Premier League.
Galanopoulos is another player that can't stay healthy so let's just forget about him for now. I don't get why Bouxalakis starts : he's slow, sucks defensively and doesn't cover much ground. Offensively he makes to many turnovers and the occasional good pass doesn't make up for his faults. Siopis performances of late means that he is a viable replacement for Zeca who at 33 and coming off an injury is past it.
Bakasetas sucks but he plays well for his club and must be doing all the right things in practice and gets the starts regardless who is manager...at least he's present and accounted for and occasionally contributes. Unfortunately, Fortounis has played a whopping 200 min all year....he won't get any better and if you think he's going to be a difference maker at this point in his career you're kidding yourselves (of course I hope he makes a full recovery and comes back stronger but let's be realistic).
Masouras and Limnios are serviceable wingers and bring an element of speed down the flanks....both are really good at tracking back which makes a difference against quality opponents.
Giakoumakis has all the right tools and timing to become a top striker...let's hope he brings it to he NT. Add Douvikas, Fountas and Pavlidis (who gets a lot of flack for not scoring but does a lot of the dirty work) and the forwards look pretty versatile even if they aren't world beaters.
What's missing is a credible playmaker who can perform on a consistent basis. I always hoped either Mantalos or Fortounis would pick up that role but I think it's time to move on from them as they both seem to have gotten stuck in the GSL quagmire.
Hopefully Poyet can piece together the puzzle and bring back some success to the NT
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I am not sure Manolas will come back to the NT....not because he won't be called but because he might not want to without Sokratis and Siovas....imo neither should be considered anymore for call ups due to age and the better options available.
Hatzidiakos and Mavropanos should be the starting CB pairing. Siopis or Zeca (if he is still an option after his injury) have to play in front of Rota if he starts, to help him defensively....Idk if he will be any better than Bakakis in the long run and we should be looking at other options. I would add Kargas and Saliakas form PAS into the mix instead of Siovas and Sokratis if you're looking for more defenders.
Giakoumakis should be first choice striker so long as he keeps on performing with his club....he seems the real deal and a very savvy and versatile attacker with good timing and positional play. Pavlidis does a lot of the dirty work up front and doesn't really score very often for the NT but he is did score 17 goals so far this year for his club which is not too shabby...just hope he can bring that form to the NT on a consistent basis.
Alexandropoulos is an up and comer but not quite there yet as you can see with some of his mistakes....he can actually become the box to box CM we have been lacking, just needs some time as he is 20yrs old and that position has a bit of a learning curve.
Pelkas was quite active and left a good impression as did Limnios but their play lacks substance imo. As for Fortounis I wouldn't hold my breath....he always had the talent but no determination to go along with that and has been the biggest let down of all the players over the the last few years. Even if he fully recovers from his injury he never delivered in the big games so I doubt it will make a difference one way or the other.
Galanopoulos, while I like the kid, he seems to be made of glass and is always injured so you can't really count on him.
As for the game we had a good 1st half and in the 2nd half basically sat back and tried to counter which is always a bad idea imo....at least we got the win which for sure is the most important thing right now. The fact that Bakasetas didn't automatically start is another positive....I really don't mind him being on the team as long as the coach can see his limitations and can use him according to his strengths (slowing down the game, drawing fouls, passing the ball out to touch, killing pigeons in mid air with his shots, etc)
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On 3/19/2022 at 8:36 AM, J1078 said:
Regarding Manolas, Soivas Korubelis the plan was to call them up but they have a busy schedule so he left them sit out of the friendlies but plans to have them for the Nations League games in June.
I vaguely remember another coach doing the same thing and that didn't exactly pan out for him.....I don't see any major difference in the call ups either. Mavropanos has played 2 of his last 3 starts at Stuttgart at RB so I wonder if he is being looked at for this position. I think Saliakas would have been another option at RB as I find Rota underwhelming at times. I'm glad Lyratzis got he call up but I think he would be starting for sure for the U21 where as he might just be a spectator during the friendlies and Saliakas has been arguably the best Greek RB over the course of the year. Strange to see only 1 defensive mid. in the callups....I think this will be a good change in the overall set up of the team,
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Back to Poyet....I'm always hopeful when a new skipper takes over that he will be able to make the right selections and get the best out of his players but a lot has to do with the advice he gets from those around him (and if takes that advice). Can anyone verify if Tsanas is Technical Director of the NT? He seems to be a constant in the equation of mediocrity that is the Greek NT post-Santos. Others get sacked while he seems to gets promoted.
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4 hours ago, trotsk13 said:
Other than Tsimikas, who under the age of 27 needs to be starting no Matter what going forward?
There are no automatic starters in this bunch at any age....Tsimikas maybe if he keeps getting more playing time at Liverpool. Alexandropoulos still has a boy's body and needs time to develop, I think that's why he wasn't used yet. Douvikas and Tzolis are good but haven't made enough impact to be considered shoe ins.
21 hours ago, Dean97 said:A player like Pelkas proved he is better than Bakasetas.
If we go by form then Bakasetas is the most consistent greek player week in week out for his club and should be starting every game (the ultimate irony 🤪). I'm kidding of course but what did Pelkas do that made him better? Not that I think that Bakasetas is any better...but the end result was just as bad if not worse without him. Same goes for Tzavella who gets a lot of hate but were we any better when Man/Papa/Siovas were playing?
I think a definite issue is lack of leadership....maybe Bakasetas and Tzavellas show some character to JVS and that's why they start but these guys aren't going to be the ones to take carry the team forward and I really don't know who will....Papadopoulos would have been great if he wasn't made out of glass and I don't see anyone else on the horizon.
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Yeah it's time to cut JVS loose....not that it's all on him but someone needs to foot the bill and it's gonna be him. I think this failure to qualify has more to do with a combination of injuries, players in leadership standing refusing to participate and a general lack of talent and depth, but JVS's inability to make in-game changes to tactics and players so as to adapt to the game being played is not acceptable at this level and I think that's his biggest shortcoming.
Manolas and Papastathopoulos can both suck it and I hope they never get called back....they turned their back on the team and no amount of "player management" will change their crappy attitude....same goes for Siovas. They took themselves out of the picture and for those who don't remember, the NT went through their most embarrassing period in recent history with these 2 as the main CB pairing anyhow....enough said on this issue already.
There were good signs from the team but no consistency which is part of the coach's job.....to get a consistently good performance from his players regardless of the outcome....if the players aren't talented, then that's an altogether different issue and at the moment it seems we are lacking in that department. I'm pretty sure JVS didn't tell his players to sit back against Georgia or Kosovo....I'm pretty sure he told them the same thing he said going in against Sweden but the player's just don't have the ability to perform consistently
Hopefully Tzolis, Douvikas, and Alexandropoulos will continue to develop because the previous bunch of Pelkas, Fortounis, Mantalos etc. fell well short of the mark. Pavlidis, Fountas, Giakoumakis may prove to be serviceable players but have yet to stamp their mark on the team. Leftback is stacked while I think we need options on the right. I think Hatzidiakos is a talented CB and part of the future plans....Mavropanos needs a little more work but is promising.
It's a big let down as far as how things went after JVS took over but from the start he made it clear that his idea of success lay in qualifying for the WC....playing nice football is nice but it means nothing without results.
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9 hours ago, Brklyngrk said:
I don't remember Sokratis/Manolas refusing to be called up. He said he would call them but I don't remember them saying that he did. Our CBs for the most part (not counting the last game) have played well. Not sure what his obsession of picking 4/5 LBs is but we are playing attacking football. Even Bakasetas has played well the last two games (never thought I'd write that). I am torn between giving him a solid shot bc I do think this group of players like him and play hard for him.
It was in all the papers....some with a pro Mano/Papa slant, others more objective:
https://www.metrosport.gr/ethesan-eayton-ektos-ethnikis-manolas-kai-papastathopoylos-357919
Thing is JVS has created a unity within the team all the while trying out different players (can't say I agree with all of his picks) while also having to deal with deliberate attempts by certain players to destabilize the NT. I personally see Mano/Papa/Siovas as players who, for whatever reason, don't want to commit to the team anymore and that's fine. We lost a lot more games with them in the lineup than we have without them so they aren't the magical solution. I think the dream of playing more modern football is starting to show but there will be plenty of growing pains until it bears fruit.
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I'd like to put in my 2 cents here: JVS failed to achieve his goal of qualifying for Quatar WC and that could very likely cost him his job. He made many mistakes and made many head-scratching decisions along the way but I think many here have forgotten what went down in regards to the Manolas-Papastathopoulos-Siovas clicka. JVS came out and told Manolas and Papastathopoulos that he would not be calling them up for the nations league so that he can try some new blood (not as some punishment for their ridiculous behavior against Ange which would have been warranted) but would be counting on them for the WC qualifiers. He called on them for the qualifiers and they refused....they refused....how can anyone say that that's on JVS? Siovas came out and crapped all over his CB partner and criticized JVS for not calling up Manolas and Papastathopoulos and he was forced to drop him....again how can anyone say that JVS mishandled that situation? What other action could he have taken and not lost control of the team? In both instances it was the actions and decisions of these particular players that left them off the team and not some grudge or evil plan of the coach to handicap the NT.
I think that tactically JVS leaves much to be desired but you can't blame him when the players can't put the ball into the net....that's our skill level like it or not. There are always players coming up giving us hope for a better future (Douvikas, Tzolis, Alexandropoulos, etc) and at least with JVS they are getting their chances. Personally I never cared if a coach had an inexplicable favorite (Rehagel and Vryza or Santos and Katsouranis, etc) as long as they get the results. JVS has took over a team that had gotten used to losing to Armenia and the Faroes and other minnows. I don't think any coach could walk into the NT and turn the team around totally but JVS has brought it around part of the way.
Does he deserve more time? It's not so clear as NT football is all about results....if you invest time in playing attractive football it comes at the expense of results, but the NT has played some of its most attractive football ever under JVS and at the same time we've dropped points in what would have been easy 1 nil wins in the Santos/Rehagel eras. I guess it all depends on what criteria you are judging him. I personally don't believe changing the coach is going to magically make the NT score more goals or prevent defensive mistakes like those against Sweden, but if the young players are given the chance to get better and are offered the opportunities to play it will be a lot more advantageous to the NT rather than arguing in favor of players who obviously don't want to be there.
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NT Coaches
in Greek National Teams
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We are at square one again since we didn't qualify for the Euros....no sense in tearing down everything that has happened though. If Poyet stays or goes it won't make a difference without a change in the National teams philosophy. Although very different style coaches, Poyet's and Van T'Schipp's downfall were due to not having a plan b when things didn't go as planned. We can't magically come up with a group of players who will be able to qualify for tournaments due to skill and talent so we need to have someone (or even more so a team) who can work with what we got and take action when necessary without allowing any outside interference. No need for diplomacy or maintaining good ties with the press or player managers....just an old school coach who only cares about results and doesn't hold allegiances to anyone other than the Ethniki.