The Vardinoyiannis family

[trifilli]

About the Vardinoyiannis' :

I have mentioned in the past that I am quite familiar with the "family"

I am not bragging about it, neither is it something to be proud about.

I have been friends with extended family members from Crete, who are very descent people, and was an acquaintance of "Giannakis" at "Athens College" High School.

Please allow me to give you my insight on this very intriguing family.

The family is ruled sort of like a mafia organization, although not affiliated with any crime syndicates, as far as I could know.

The "godfather" was Vardis, but that might have changed, since I have not kept up with them in several years.

One thing is for sure however, neither "kapetan Giorgos" nor "Tzigger" were in charge of the final financial decision making.

The "word" comes from above.

The empire that is "Vardinoyiannides" was not built over night, nor by one person alone. They have worked hard, taken chances, broken "embargoes" and other moral and legal laws. They are not unlike any other "moguls". Onasis and Latsis were made of the same stuff.

What I am getting at, is that, as much as I despise the way they are treating PAO as another one of their several assets, the ones responsible for the big money shots are never at the forefront, they will never be known.

Kapetan Giorgos was initially chosen to lead PAO, because he was a little wacko, as anyone that is old enough to have followed PAO for the last 26 years, already knows.

Although a very brave and ruthless man when it came to ships, he was just a little too "unpredictable" to become involved in the leading aspect of the business.

Therefore Vardis bought PAO and gave him something to be a leader of, that was relatively safe and always controlled by above.

Time passed, and Giorgos was getting older, plus his high visibility was becoming a risk to the family.

The Fillipidis solution was considered to be the best choice in removing the family from the front-lines.

Personally, I believe Fillipidis tried his best, but was betrayed by the family.

The new choice had to be someone younger that also was not "cutting" it in their real business. Who better than the ex-Rally driver himself, "Tzigger".

PAO could become the training ground for young Giannaki, to gain experience to one day take over the real world.

Although there is no doubting the love that they have for PAO, their motivations are not like Kokkalis' nor Nikolaidis'.

This ladies and gentlemen is a business, and one of many, may I add.

Unlike Kokkalis who thrives over the glamour and coverage of being the "Prez", or Demmis' true and deep love for his team, the family has neither the desire nor the "constitution" for any of that.

The family does not make decisions based on anything other than the "bottom line".

Nothing wrong with that, if anything, it adds stability to the finances of the team.

The improvement for the team, in terms of quality and investment, will only come with better decision making. The money will be there when the investment shows a return.

This will be accomplished if either "Tzigger" gets some great advisers, or if he is removed.

The one common factor in the past few years, has been wrong choices from the management.

Wrong and untimely coach changes and completely idiotic transfers and sales, regardless of money spent.

Please shoot, so we may give our input directly to the issues brought up.

PEACE

[skathari]

yep...this all sounds quite accurate..that is why all the players seem leave Panathinaikos with a bad vibe..because it is just a business..and while I do agree it is fine, the warmth and personal relationships between the dioikisi and the players is not there..and that has a lot to do with the subconsciousness of the players and how much they really care about the team as a whole.

[TheCity1924]

yep...this all sounds quite accurate..that is why all the players seem leave Panathinaikos with a bad vibe..because it is just a business..and while I do agree it is fine, the warmth and personal relationships between the dioikisi and the players is not there..and that has a lot to do with the subconsciousness of the players and how much they really care about the team as a whole.

Very true!!! Lack of commitment from management translates into a lack of commitment from the players. Yes they might be one the pitch playing, but are they really giving it their best? Not to take away anything from Iraklis, but last Sunday, PAO seemed as if they didn't want to be there, as if they didn't care. That attitude comes from the coach and from management. Business is business and players are supposed to be professionals, regardless of the team they play for but at some level there have to be a human relationship between the elements. Non-existent at PAO.

[pao123]

it is not non exsistent, but it is far from full existance. :D

[athinaios]

Thanks for the insights. It fits right in with my own observations over the years. It should also help to put things into perspective, although, too many fans out there never going to understand that it's not worth spilling blood over. Unfortunately for the rest of us PAO and all the other teams are so closely tied to the personality & abilities of the owner. I don't think Tzigger has had a successful tenure at PAO, anyway you measure things, except, perhaps, money-wise.

To me, again, I don't care if the owner makes $8734 billion from the team, as long as my beloved team is succeeding. Of course, I'd like it if the owners & managers are also serious fans of the team and the sport, and are not doing it to boost their ego and their public visibility.

The question is how we, the fans, can influence the situation. I mean, for the most Greek teams, their problems originate from within, because the system allows scum & scammers to take control.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Very true!!! Lack of commitment from management translates into a lack of commitment from the players. Yes they might be one the pitch playing, but are they really giving it their best? Not to take away anything from Iraklis, but last Sunday, PAO seemed as if they didn't want to be there, as if they didn't care. That attitude comes from the coach and from management. Business is business and players are supposed to be professionals, regardless of the team they play for but at some level there have to be a human relationship between the elements. Non-existent at PAO.

Thank you Thank you!!!!

someone see's it from a bussiness point of view and not from a fans point of view!!!! of course the root of Paos problems or failers lead to upper Management which is KING V and his empire!!!

try explaing this to some: http://clubs.phantis.com/sports/index.php?...opic=8680&st=25

[trifilli]

The question is how we, the fans, can influence the situation

That is a hard one.

I have always felt that the only way for the family to feel the heat, is to hurt them where it really hurts.

Nothing hurts the Vs, not hatred, not bad publicity, not PAO's failures.

Only financial loss will hurt them.

The problem is that they know many PAO fans are so devoted they will always support the team.

It takes a great deal of coordination and planning along with discipline and patience, to carry out an "abstinence" plan. The above qualities are not abundant.

There is also no way around hurting the team in the short term.

What would be the end result?

1. They will sell to someone like Pavlo at an affordable price to cut their losses.

Is there anyone out there that has shown any kind of interest, any takers?

2. They will get their act together and invest in order to profit.

The saddest part of all is that even when $$ is spent, it is spent the wrong way.

One perfect example is the exchange of Munch for Seric.

My humble opinion is that although older and more prone to injuries, when Marcus played he was an impact player.

Seric is ok and may have a future at PAO, but is not a steal at 800k a year.

Munch wanted 550k I believe.

I remember when Tzigger said "money is not an issue, we get who we want to get. That's why PAO signed Seric for 800k instead of Munch"

His ego was in the way of that announcement

Let's not go to the Flavio fiasco, or even Biscan and Nillson, whom I actually like.

None of them have earned their $$$ yet.

Because of vendettas getting in the way, PAO has lost some good Greek talent and replaced them with expensive yet not effective foreigners.

When "Tzigger" stays away from micromanaging football operations and focuses on the business side of the "company" and when transfer decisions are made by the "experts" then better days will follow. For the above to realise PAO needs a strong coach that is also a manager.

PEACE

[bar7]

its family owner therefore theres no reason to build a family of players that grow within a system :( :tdown:

if we the fans attempt to try & dent PAO financially we would only be inflicting pain on ourselves...not the Vs

[athinaios]

I can't change my heart. PAO is in there. But, I refuse to be a sheep. And, I get angry when incompetent people make decisions that affect my beloved team.

I think with our fortunes down at this point, it'd be a good time for a change in ownership. Pavlos wanted to buy but the Vs were totally unreasonable, asking too much $$$.

I'd like to see the fans being more organized--and I'm not talking about those idiots who only care to be violent Neaderthals--so there could apply more pressure, even if this meant boycotting the team.

There is a much greater harm done by the incompetent owners. The team suffers by not performing well, winning titles, building on its reputation. This further results in LOSING fans. Many young people when they decide to become fans of a team it helps if that team is successful, no?

Being proud of your team has a lot to do with being a solid supporter. If there's a m@l@k@s at the helm and the stupid decisions that he makes, is way more harmful in the long run. Who can honestly say that Tzigger has been a successful influence on PAO????? :tdown: Don't you think we've lost new fans, and so many chances to get titles and increase our reputation in Europe?

[billyzaf]

Couldn't agree more with you athinaios. It's time the fans reacted about this! Boycotting is an option. A clear message must be sent up there : Enough words, show as that you care for this team

[Clover22]

Great thread and great posts. It IS possible to influence a change in the way things are being handled. There are many many Panathinaikos fans out there remember! We just need organisation, thats all.

[slick13]

about tsigger!

taken from greenwebfams forum by an old respected member!!!!!

oh and by the way kavouras is vardinogiannis(if u did not know?)

[slick13]

where are u now athineos and all the tzigger hatters!

this is actually true wait for more comments from me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[athinaios]

Slick, what are you smoking man????!!!! Take it easy. :1eye:

Before you climb on your high horse, you should read what most of us critical of Tzigger have written. I don't claim to speak for others, but for me Tzigger has been a FAILURE as an owner, and the facts support this. It's not being unlucky or blame others.... :nono:

ALso, for me (and I've said this 1,000 times--at least TWICE on this thread--read above posts) it's not a question of money, but RESULTS! I don't care if Tzigger loses $3 trillion or makes 450 megatrillion dollars from the team. I care more about having a good team that performs, gets titles, competes well with the big guys in europe, and, why not, see some great play on the pitch.

If you were growing up (maybe you still are) at an age when a kid picks a team to support, unless your family brought you to PAO, I'd say you'd be hard-pressed to become a PAO fan based on the team's PERFORMANCE in the last 10 years. :blink:

I don't waste my time hating.... Nor, do I care whether Tzigger is a true PAO fan (he probably is; he may be a nice person too--I don't know) but as the top enchilada of my beloved team he SUCKS! :tdown:

[slick13]

i clearly remember the 95/96 season!

back then u could buy sportime newspaper here in denmark and i remember theese stats!!

when we played thrynos at home(we where 20+ points ahead of them) their where about 30000 at oaka and we won 1-0. but only 30000!

and we where fighting with aek for the championship.

in the end we where 2 points ahead of aek before the last match day at oaka.

we won 3-1 in the last game with about 20-30000 "celebrating" the title :o :o

i really dont think tzigger has made any real money from pao! neither has kapetanios!

the only major mistake tzigger has made is he should have fought with the same weapons kokkalis uses to gain tittles(and whatever that means)

[Grace]

Giati nomizete oti o tzigger perimenei ta eisitiria gia na bgalei lefta??

Mono ta diarkeias einai,ta lefta apo eyrwpaikous agwnes,ta xrimata apo tileoptika dikaiwmata,xorigies ktl....ayta einai ta xontra xrimata...eite pame eite de pame gipedo tha ta bgalei o tzigger.....

Kai nai ok exei dwsei lefta o tzigger..omws exei balei tosous axristous gyrw tou pou ta dinei se lathous anthrwpous symperilambanomenwn ki aytwn....

Pou einai i dioikisi na prostatepsei tin omada ap'ta korakia kai tis propagandes tou gay??

Pou einai i dioikisi otan o praktoras leei oti "alles einai omades tou dimosiou" kai 1 bdomada meta syzitaei me tin ERT gia tileoptika dikaiomata me 480.000 eyros ta match??Oute CL natane!

Dioikisi den einai mono ta xrimata pou bazeis....einai kai na ta ependyeis swsta kai saytous pou aksizoun..einai na prostateyeis tin omada apo olous tous ekswagwnistikous paragontes kai nafineis tous paixtes anepirreastous apoles tis seirines!!!

[athinaios]

Thanks Grace. That's my point! The owner--who wants to make decisions--is responsible. He picks his management team, steers the club, hires/fires the people around him, and IS responsible for the overall public Relations. He has to protect the team too. Like any other corporation/company/non-profit organization/syllogos/club/whatever is judged by the RESULTS. ESPECIALLY WHEN THE PERSON IN CHARGE HAS SO MUCH POWER, MONEY, RESOURCES, AND A CLUB WITH A BIG NAME & HISTORY. Sooooo, I'm VERY disappointed with the RESULTS!

If Tzigger was my ..brother, I'd still say the same things. It's NOT enough for me to spend money and get my team to B' Ethniki!!! And, for a team like PAO, the last 10 years for the most part looked like B' Ethniki to me. I don't remember that we EVER were out of contention (totally) since ..December!!!!!!!!

[HOLLYWOOD]

Thanks Grace. That's my point! The owner--who wants to make decisions--is responsible. He picks his management team, steers the club, hires/fires the people around him, and IS responsible for the overall public Relations. He has to protect the team too. Like any other corporation/company/non-profit organization/syllogos/club/whatever is judged by the RESULTS. ESPECIALLY WHEN THE PERSON IN CHARGE HAS SO MUCH POWER, MONEY, RESOURCES, AND A CLUB WITH A BIG NAME & HISTORY. Sooooo, I'm VERY disappointed with the RESULTS!

If Tzigger was my ..brother, I'd still say the same things. It's NOT enough for me to spend money and get my team to B' Ethniki!!! And, for a team like PAO, the last 10 years for the most part looked like B' Ethniki to me. I don't remember that we EVER were out of contention (totally) since ..December!!!!!!!!

well said :tup:

[TheCity1924]

the only major mistake tzigger has made is he should have fought with the same weapons kokkalis uses to gain tittles(and whatever that means)

What weapons are you refering to?

[HOLLYWOOD]

What weapons are you refering to?

i think he means cheating, bribing the refs to the point where its really obviouse and Frequent in order to win the League/Cup... ;)

[trifilli]

wake up man!

Great points Grace and Athinaios :tup:

With the new TV contract that PAO will get, after gayro got 13 mil/2 years, who needs the fans?... ;)

And who needs good Greek players?

Cheap foreigners will always be welcome.

Seitaridis, Kyrgiakos, Basinas were/are not good for PAO...

Not that any of them would return, after a taste of the "Tzigger treatment"!

Kakalis buys the Greek National Team, :gr: that used to be half PAO :tdown:

Now, who is asleep? ZZZ ... :P

PEACE

[slick13]

wake up man!

Great points Grace and Athinaios :tup:

With the new TV contract that PAO will get, after gayro got 13 mil/2 years, who needs the fans?... ;)

And who needs good Greek players?

Cheap foreigners will always be welcome.

Seitaridis, Kyrgiakos, Basinas were/are not good for PAO...

Not that any of them would return, after a taste of the "Tzigger treatment"!

Kakalis buys the Greek National Team, :gr: that used to be half PAO :tdown:

Now, who is asleep? ZZZ ... :P

PEACE

who do u support!

pao as a team(with a healthy financial by the name of tzigger)?

or having youre favourite players at pao but have a mangment like paok for example?

[trifilli]

Mr Vardinokolis has it figured out.

He knows that the only competition for PAO players in Greece, is gaurokakalis.

He also knows there are thousands of brainwashed/brain-dead PAO "devoted fans", that will hate/blame any PAO player that dares to go to the "other side"

His position is safe. Only a player who is highly marketable, will negotiate hard with Tzigger.

The gauro owner is eager to buy all ex-PAO players, but even his team only needs 11 on the pitch!!! :D

The choices for ex-PAO stars are running out...

"Pou allou tha pane ta kolopaida... tha ypograpsoun oti thelo ego" he is thinking. :angry:

Congratulations Tziggerman, I hope you enjoy your savings this summer on fuel for your yacht.

Then maybe PAO will get another BIG name for the "diarkeias" sales. :whistle:

PS: Please post your own opinions.

PEACE

[athinaios]

Mr Vardinokolis has it figured out.

He knows that the only competition for PAO players in Greece, is gaurokakalis.

He also knows there are thousands of brainwashed/brain-dead PAO "devoted fans", that will hate/blame any PAO player that dares to go to the "other side"

Some of those idiots of fans are here too, posting comments like, "who do u support! pao as a team(with a healthy financial by the name of tzigger)?"....

Unfortunately not everyone has thinking skills, be able to see the FACTS, and connect the dots....

That's why our "financially-healthy team" is performing so great at so many levels, stays out of the danger zone of B' Ethniki, and knows how to treat "prodotes"--you know, all those who dare question the all-wise authority, dare to go to another team after mistreatment, dare to suggest another course of action...

You either with us or against us.... If you criticise the ruler you give comfort to the enemy, you break our unity, etc... All the same garbage we hear from dictatorial and generally failed regimes....

But, I guess, it's part of human nature, some people are leaders and some are blind followers! We see it outside of sports too... tsk, tsk....

[trifilli]

ATHINAIOS :nw: :nw: :nw:

Could not have said it better myself. :tup: :)

PEACE