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New Stadium


Spears

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Karaiskaki used to hold 45.000 regularly every game, even at the stone years of Osfp. Why the heck the new stadum is so much smaller

you say it in your post. it USED to hold such a lot of people regularly. but back then, there wasnt such a big problem with our fans. nowadays you wont see many fathers with their children in the stadium. but that it is too small is a fact. 40-45000 woudl have been great.

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i'm fascinated by all this talk.... i live in NY and the jets are now playing in NJ and want to build a stadium in Manhattan with no space for parking... Anyway, my point is that all this what if, maybe, we'll see, you're wrong, i'm right, etc.etc.... Any serious business knows EXACTLY who goes where, buys what, for what reasons, who attends, under what conditions, level of fan commitment, where they come from, whether someone would travel an extra 20 minutes to save $20 (on ticket price), and so forth....

I mean, com'on, it's not a rush decision... we've been talking about a new stadium for many, many years! If we don't know by now, we'll never know, and we're just playing roulette!

Geesh men, sorry, but isn't PAO a modern company with professional people to market the team, do research into its "customer base"?

Amazing, f^^king amazing!

athinaios:

There is a big difference between the American mentality and the Europen mentality. For the sake of argument let's consider Greek way of thinking about such things the same as the rest of Europe because when compared to America there is a clear distinction.

No offence intended, but your American example is a little irrelevant. For starters American sports teams are frenchises, nothing more nothing less. They can uproot from one city and relocate in another and like everything else American there is no history and tradition or any understanding of such things. Like everything else, Americans have little understanding of heritage or history or sentimentality. Again I don't mean any offence here sp please don’t take any.

Your point about PAO being 'a modern company with professional people' is all well and good but one thing these professional modern businessmen can not ignore is the opinion and the feelings of fans. You can't run a successful business by pissing off your main customer base. As Malcome Glazer has proven in his attempt to buy Manchester United Americans maybe successful businessmen in sports but one thing they don't understand is how things are done in Europe and have no respect for wishes of the fans. Sentimentality runs far deeper than any business or profit.

PAO fans want the club in Athens. Most of them will follow a bankrupt PAO in fourth division playing at Leoforos than a rich PAO that plays outside its traditions in a 60000 modern stadium and doesn't represent them or their history and ideals.

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we have the best metro in europe and its very cheap and you dont deal with bullshit like parking. so what 20 mins more to get there.....i still dont see the big problem. an extra 20 mins isnt enough to cure the sickness for PAO we have.......

First of all I take this statement as a joke not a serious sentence.... The best Metro in Europe? :o You must be kidding!!!! If you say the most poshy, clean, new, then OK I agree (which is much worse than Moscow's even on poshyness)... But in terms of helping people move around? Its probably the worst in europe!!! The metro in Athens serves only few areas, whilist it doesn't even pass from the most populated areas (Zografou, Kipselli, Pagrati etc etc)... Even Helliniko that you mention, there is no Metro to there... The Metro will take you as far as the beginning of Vouliagmenis Av. which is just a little bit further than Dafni... Then you will either need to take the bus, or even worse get the useless tram (which takes 1.5 hours from Syntagma to Glyfada) to go there....

Also Almamattar: The PAO ground is not onother instrument for arguiong with the Geys... I don't wont a 50,000 stadium just for the sake of saying that I have a bigger stadium than Kokkaliskaki.. People who have been following footbal know exactly how Kokkaliskaki was build... And to be honest with you SIZE doesn't matter... What would you do with a 50.000 stadium if 5,000 fans went there? Would you go to your gey friends and argue that PAO has a biger ground than OSFP? What is the point? At least the geys got a stadium at their own district, reflecting their beliefs, historyand traditions and they are happy with it.... That is what I want for PAO. Something that reflects what PAO is and what PAO was, his original roots, his birth place, his Athenean fan base...

How can I say this... I EVEN LIKE THE SOUND OF "GAMIETAI O PAO KAI H LEOFOROS" if you know what I mean.... I wouldn't want to hear in couple of years time something like "Gamietai o pao kai to Helliniko!!!"

but most of all I prefer "ETSI GAMEI H LEOFOROS!!!!" This has been going around for almost 100 years and Goudi can still be considered "leoforos" because its the same area... Helliniko sucks big time and is s%$#!!!!!

Anyway today is the meeting with the Aliti Souflia!!! Tzigger will pressure for Goudi but he will try to get some reassurance that the work and the build up it is goingto be smooth without any interuptions from the mayers or the population.... Lets see what happens...

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pappou i have been in many metros in europe, and in terms of moving people efficiently on time and being costworthy and being clean/ presentable it is easily the best. For the area it does serve it does very well. Yes there is yet to be some areas covered I know this because i take the bus to Agios Dimitrios (like you said) to get to the metro. I also aware that Ellniko has no stop but if there is a stadium they will surely expand down there ( that area is supposedly in planning anyways)

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The Minister of Culture (Fani Petralia) today held a Press Conference regarding a new law about the post-Olympic usage of the Facilities.

Regarding Goudi (Badmington) she said that it can be given to some private company for use (without saying anything about PAO). The hint is that we might use this for Basketball.

Regarding Helliniko she said that no part of it will be given away (UNTIL THE PROJECT FOR THE METROPOLITAN PARK IS COMPLETE) Hint PAO will be able to build there as soon as the entire project is complete.

Mr HAtziemanouil (another spokes person for the government) said at the same press conference that MODERN PARKS ARE NOT BUILD AS FORESTS IN THE MIDDLE OF A CITY BUT RATHER SPACES OF GREEN THAT CAN BE USED FOR PEOPLE TO GATHER AND PARTICIPATE IN SPORTS. Hint : thelayout of the planning of the Metropolitan PArk could include a football stadium.

ON a question from an attending reporter about what will happen with the PAO Stadium, MRS Petralia said that MR Souflias would give some answers on that as soon as his meeting with Tzigger ends today.

The meeting between Tzigger-Souflias started at 14:30 and is likely to end today around 15:30 Local time.

Reports says that Tzigger will be enquiring whether they would give him some more space in Goudi than originally planed (65,000 rather than 45,000) so he could build biger stadium and more facilities. If that is denied he will start talking about Elliniko.

PS Pappou why can't you grasp the idea that that PAO CAN fill a modern 50,000 stadium anywhere in Attiki? I understand you come from a central VazeloArea of Athens, but try to stop thinking only about yourself and try looking at things from a different perspective.

Edited by m_kafes
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they can fill it only in derbies and really big champions league games.....man we break 11.000 for league games why would we get anywhere near that much in a new stadium.....it would be empty the whole time and wed lose our atmosphere advandage......30.000 is just right.....

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Panos you're making good points....

There are teams, like the Boston Celtics, LA Lakers, etc.. usually big markets, established fan base that haven't moved, won't move, and have a big legacy and rabbid fans. Yet, of course I see the differnce between US and Euro sports, and it's big.... (like the euro better myself)

On the other hand, in this 21st century, it's beyond my comprehension that PAO, any professional team, doesn't know exactly all the factors I mentioned in my earlier posting!!!!

In short, PAO managements should already know if, say, they move to Elliniko, how the fans will react. Simple polls won't do. I've worked with political polling in the states... For example, if 99% of fans want Goudi, does this mean that anywhere else a stadium will be a failure? NO! You measure the intensity and commitment of the fans.....and a host of other factors....

Listen, Leoforos is my emotional home, like 1000% of the rest of Panathes... but we have to move, I guess, I'm just asking how come we're discussing the issue without anyone knowing what any move will do to the club....

I tend to believe that Vardi has done his research.... He knows the fans want Goudi, but he leans towards Elliniko... He's trying to find a good way to tell the fans, is playing the Goudi card and trying to get as much from the gov. for Elliniko.....

My choices: 1. leoforos (can't they buy property around the gipedo?) 2. Goudi, 3. Elliniko

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listen i really want Pao to get a new stadio b/c its good for the Greek league and creates even a greater rivalry between the two teams

but wuts the big deal here that Pao wants to build a bigger and better stadio

if it wasn't for Olympiakos building Karaiskaki would Pao be building a stadio??

the point is we are the first to build a modern stadio for a club from Greek clubs

and we happen to build it right on top of the old Kariakskai which still contains the history and past

your stadio may look better on the outside but thats artificial if the fans don't show up and create an atmosphere

Olympiakos as done that something u can't deny

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listen i really want Pao to get a new stadio b/c its good for the Greek league and creates even a greater rivalry between the two teams

but wuts the big deal here that Pao wants to build a bigger and better stadio

if it wasn't for Olympiakos building Karaiskaki would Pao be building a stadio??

the point is we are the first to build a modern stadio for a club from Greek clubs

and we happen to build it right on top of the old Kariakskai which still contains the history and past

your stadio may look better on the outside but thats artificial if the fans don't show up and create an atmosphere

Olympiakos as done that something u can't deny

:LOL:

This post shows you know nothing about the recent history of this issue.

A few years ago and well before Kokalis grabbed Karaiskaki, even well before he had plans of rebuilding it, Vardinnogiannis approached the PASOK government with the plans to rebuild Leoforos into a modern stadium which can be used for the Olympics. This was originally our plan and idea, not OSFP.

When this plan and other variations were refused and ignored by PASOK, the same government gave this permission to Kokalis to rebuild Karaiskaki. The idea that it would be used for the Olympics was not new, it was taken from the suggestion first made by Vardinnogianis to the government.

So when you say "if it wasn't for Olympiakos building Karaiskaki would Pao be building a stadio??" the answer is YES. If it wasn't for PAO proposing this to the government, Kokalis would not have built PASOKOGIPEDO aka Kokaliskaki. So please get your facts right before you post here.

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Are you crazy re.... You prefer the ghost-area of Votanikos than Goudi the area wher PAO was born and it has its history connected to it?

Votanikos is a s***y place full of homeless refugees... You can't even walk there at night without having a gun!!! Why should PAO solve the problem and appreciate the entire area? And I tell you this... What will the government give to PAO for an exchange of Leoforos? If Leoforos is worth X then the same amount of space (not to mention the already build ground at leoforos) costs X/20!!! This means that if PAO decides to go there, not only he has to have almost the ENTIRE area of Votanikos but the government should also PAY for the build up of the stadium!!!!

You can give away property worth of 20bn and receive land worth 1bn!!!! :o

As far as Mrs Bakogianni is concerned, what can somebody say... She is a joke along with the rest of the clowns of the Government... She is speaking of parks in the area of Goudi and Leoforos and nobody gives her the finger and ask her? What happened to Omonoia where it was supposed to be full of Green and trees?(that is what she promised before her election!!!), What happened to the El. Venizelos park after the PASOKIA gave Licence to Mr. Arxi-pasoko-Labraki to build Megaro Moussikis? Where are all the undergound parkings and where are all the thousends of meters of Green promised by her couple of years ago?

OYST!!!! :box: PAO is not going to be exploited and become a victim again... We are NOT going to solve any other Social / demographic problems of Dimo Athinaion.... :nono: :nono: :nono:

THELETE DE THELETE TO GHPEDO TOY PAO THA GINEI STO GOUDI PALIO ALHTES!!!!!

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Pappou relax you're gonna have a heart attack. All I am saying is that I would prefer a stadium of 40K to one of merely 28K provided they were both within Athens boundaries. IF there is a plan for redevelopement the land is gonna worth much more than you think and the refugees are not gonna be a problem for long. Usually what happens in that sort of situations is that Land gets a lot of value as soon as such a redevelopement is scheduled and consequently modern housing developments are raized and in no time at all from one of the worst districts it could become one of the best. I think the plan is good in respect of Leoforo as well as it's gonna become a park and not a church like some other plans mention.

What's not to like about this? I think Goudi isn't gonna be an issue anymore since the facts talk about a 28K maximum stadium and insufficient parking and shops (is this what you call a modern stadium PAPPOU). Even Gianakopoulos :nw: will like the Votaniko offer better (he has always said I want Goudi but if that is not possible for any reason we should go to Votaniko)

Edited by m_kafes
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Are Pappou na efhese na ginei kati tetio re!

An i periohi tou Votanikou eivai bordelo tote tha anavathmistei kai tha ginei kali periohi. Koita na kanis kamia ependisoula an apofasisti na ginei to gipedo eki giati oi times that ftasoun sta iyoi. :D

Oso gia ta sinthimata re megale an pame sto Goudi tha lene oi Gavroi "gamiete o Pao kai to Goudi" so kalitero onoma kai "tou Votanikou o Magas"alla Kai "o antiprosopos tou ellinikou podosferou sto Eliiniko" B)

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i think we should say screw goudi screw elliniko, and fix up leoforos add another 10.000 seats and some improvements..........face it well never fill 50.000 seats regularly even for Champions League thats really pushing it and unrealistic. we need to keep a nice compact stadium with another 10.000 so we can keep the atmosphere hot and win most of our games....

Edited by drakos13
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...face it well never fill 50.000 seats regularly even for Champions League thats really pushing it and unrealistic. we need to keep a nice compact stadium with another 10.000 so we can keep the atmosphere hot and win most of our games....

What on earth are you talking about? So every other club in Europe that is tearing down their 30K stadium for an even bigger are stupid? You are too young to remember the good days of OAKA. Wouldn't you like to see some big players with the green shirt? Well this is never gonna happen if we go for a 25K stadium.

Do you remember how far we went in 1996 in Europe? Do you think it was only because we had a good team? We had the biggest average in EUROPE (Uefa tend to notice these things) So now 10 years later you are telling me that we need a small stadium because we do not have a good enough team to win every game on the pich, and that we cannot fill a 50K stadium?

NEXT TIME YOU POST TRY TO BE SOBER AND MAKE SOME MORE SENSE. (Take a leak, have a shower,THEN post :D )

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yes. sorry man this topic has nothing to do kokkaliskaki.

yeah but u Pao fans seem to mention Olympiakos

and your goal is to built a bigger and better stadium then us thats your goal

so mentioning Olympiakos it link Kokkalis

listen i really don't know who went first to as the PASOK gov't for a stadio

but who got the job done

second some of u Pao fans say that if u built a stadio the fans will come again

u try to compare the situatioin with Olympiakos in Rizoupoli when they didn't sell out like they do in Karaiskaki

but the difference between Rizoupoli and Leoforos is that Rizoupoli was our home for 3 years

Leoforos has been Pao's forever u have the tradition and history their but u still fail to sell out a 16,000 stadio

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yes. sorry man this topic has nothing to do kokkaliskaki.

yeah but u Pao fans seem to mention Olympiakos

and your goal is to built a bigger and better stadium then us thats your goal

so mentioning Olympiakos it link Kokkalis

listen i really don't know who went first to as the PASOK gov't for a stadio

but who got the job done

second some of u Pao fans say that if u built a stadio the fans will come again

u try to compare the situatioin with Olympiakos in Rizoupoli when they didn't sell out like they do in Karaiskaki

but the difference between Rizoupoli and Leoforos is that Rizoupoli was our home for 3 years

Leoforos has been Pao's forever u have the tradition and history their but u still fail to sell out a 16,000 stadio

Our goal is to build a great stadium in general, not for it to be better than yours. Thats too easy. Whats so hard to top about a 30,000 seat stadium with one of the worst fields in europe. Besides it's the most plain looking stadium i have ever seen built. First you said if it wasn't for oly pao wouldn't build a stadium and now cause you realized what a retarded comment that is you are changing it into something else. We have wanted a new stadium built since the mid 90's. And for the last comment, what the hell does that even mean? It doesn't even make any sense. Both stadiums held the same amount of people and neither team sold them out. As for your stadium. The one that you consider kokkali a god for building. Half of the money was given to him by the government because the stadium was to be used for the olympics and the other half was taken out by loan that he hasen't paid back yet. Thats your great Kokkali that you all worship like sheep. He didn't put 1 cent into the stadium.

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yes. sorry man this topic has nothing to do kokkaliskaki.

yeah but u Pao fans seem to mention Olympiakos

and your goal is to built a bigger and better stadium then us thats your goal

so mentioning Olympiakos it link Kokkalis

listen i really don't know who went first to as the PASOK gov't for a stadio

but who got the job done

second some of u Pao fans say that if u built a stadio the fans will come again

u try to compare the situatioin with Olympiakos in Rizoupoli when they didn't sell out like they do in Karaiskaki

but the difference between Rizoupoli and Leoforos is that Rizoupoli was our home for 3 years

Leoforos has been Pao's forever u have the tradition and history their but u still fail to sell out a 16,000 stadio

Our goal is to build a great stadium in general, not for it to be better than yours. Thats too easy. Whats so hard to top about a 30,000 seat stadium with one of the worst fields in europe. Besides it's the most plain looking stadium i have ever seen built. First you said if it wasn't for oly pao wouldn't build a stadium and now cause you realized what a retarded comment that is you are changing it into something else. We have wanted a new stadium built since the mid 90's. And for the last comment, what the hell does that even mean? It doesn't even make any sense. Both stadiums held the same amount of people and neither team sold them out. As for your stadium. The one that you consider kokkali a god for building. Half of the money was given to him by the government because the stadium was to be used for the olympics and the other half was taken out by loan that he hasen't paid back yet. Thats your great Kokkali that you all worship like sheep. He didn't put 1 cent into the stadium.

actually the gov't owns our stadio if i am correct b/c it was used for the Olympics

can u blame Kokkalis he made a business move to some how negotiate the finanical part of Karaiskaki

to say that our ground and our stadio is so plain looking is ignorance u can't see it b/c of your Green glasses

u can't stand the fact that we have a beautiful stadio

look u make build a bigger stadio but that doesn't mean its better then Karaiskaki

remember we still have the tradition in that stadio

Pao won't

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April Fools!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

April Fools!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

April Fools!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

April Fools!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!April Fools!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

April Fools!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

April Fools!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

April Fools!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Guess what a deal as struck

Pao will officially build on Elliniko

Wow what a beautiful new stadium..Ooooooooo

HA HA HA...You so funny...NOT!! <_<

Whenever and whereever they finally decide, you kokkalides will be jealous and in awe :huh:

Gotta go and sip some green pints B)

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