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2022 WCQ: Greece - Spain (11 Nov. 2021, 21:45 EEST - Olympic Stadium, Athens)


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6 hours ago, Chris Tsamados said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59247129

 

Looks like if Spain lose to Sweden the group's extra playoff space (as Spain are already in the playoffs, thanks to the Nation's League) would goto some other team in the Nation's League.

 

Tbh I think this is BS, it should go to the next team in the group (us), not some random team in the crappy Nations League.

I agree with your take since we will finish behind them it should go to us. I believe Wales & Austria are in line for the 2 NL playoff spots.

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12 hours ago, J1078 said:

 

Listened to JVS interview and a few times he kept bringing up the point that the team is young and has a bright future with Vlacho, Tzolis, and Douvikas. That is all well and good but you need to have some experienced players in the mix too like a Manolas & Sokratis to help guide these youngsters and help them in these qualification campaigns were you are going to face top level countries with star players like Spain & Sweden can throw out. Manolas & Sokratis would have been useful in this case as these guys have been playing at top clubs in their careers and in CL football. Which players that JVS fielded yesterday can say the same thing?

 

 

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47 minutes ago, trotsk13 said:

Ok, so if you sack JVS, who do you hire? Who can you hire? That has to be part of the fire-the-coach equation…

I agree, We cant just say fire the coach without knowing who a possible replacement is. What if we end up with another Ang or worse. We need to be very careful not to let emotions get in the way that was my point. JVS is trying to build something but before we fire him i would like to know which coach he would be replaced with, The Last thing i want to happen is a new sub par coach comes in and changes everything up and we take another step back. Regarding Manolas and Socratis as per JVS interview he told them they always have a place on the NT and would be called up for the World cup qualifiers but they didn't like that. Those guys had a problem with Ang and now JVS they have to know they cant run the show.

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1 hour ago, trotsk13 said:

Ok, so if you sack JVS, who do you hire? Who can you hire? That has to be part of the fire-the-coach equation…

No off course not for me if Donis is willing to come then I take him. At this point I prefer a good Greek coach who can deal with all the players & the majority of the Greek media think he would be best as he has coached their  before too. I

If it’s not possible to bring in Donis or another good foreign coach then I would say give JVS a 1 year contract through the NL which kicks off in June

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1 hour ago, J1078 said:

I agree, We cant just say fire the coach without knowing who a possible replacement is. What if we end up with another Ang or worse. We need to be very careful not to let emotions get in the way that was my point. JVS is trying to build something but before we fire him i would like to know which coach he would be replaced with, The Last thing i want to happen is a new sub par coach comes in and changes everything up and we take another step back. Regarding Manolas and Socratis as per JVS interview he told them they always have a place on the NT and would be called up for the World cup qualifiers but they didn't like that. Those guys had a problem with Ang and now JVS they have to know they cant run the show.

J1078 I hear you. JVS had to know that in a group with Spain & Sweden that it was not going to be easy to get in the top 2 places and that he would have to come up with great game plans and  the right player callups in order to succeed. He did well in getting Greece the draw in Spain which was a huge bonus point of the start but he followed it up with the home debacle vs Georgia (who are getting better) We got a fortunate OG and should have put the game away but he has Mavrias at RB who got smoked on the goal by the Georgian winger. Cost us a huge 2pts and again Greece blew a late lead in Kosovo up at half time. JVS should have gone out and put Kosovo away but what does he do he takes off Douvikas arguably our best player and goal scorer and we sit back and eat a late goal. Another 2pts gone!  Greece could have at the very least been coming into yesterdays matchday with 13pts and we would still have a great chance at 2nd spot as Spain at home will most likely defeat Sweden and if we beat Kosovo (which we should do) then we would have leaped over the Swedes. You said it too it came down to getting max points vs those 2 countries. I believe Greece should have even got a draw in Sweden we were all over them but unlucky we could not finish in the early going but in the second half he made some stupid changes and had we had some of the banned CBs I believe we get a result there. His in game management and player selections ultimately cost us and its really hard to accept we will miss another World Cup..

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3 hours ago, Brklyngrk said:

I thought Sokratis and Manolas declined invites to the ethniki. He said as much in last interview. Siovas should have been called up.

 

3 hours ago, Brklyngrk said:

I thought Sokratis and Manolas declined invites to the ethniki. He said as much in last interview. Siovas should have been called up.

Siovas is done as long as JVS is their he said so on a TV interview last year. As for the other two players Manolas said in an interview that someone posted on this site that after his last appearance in the 2020 Euro qualifiers that JVS called him and said that he wanted to call up the younger players and give them playing time and that he would call him down the road but that never materialized. 

With JVS at the helm Manolas and Siovas will not be invited back to the NT which is a shame as we could have used them especially during this campaign along with Sokratis. As for Sokratis at 33 its a shame that he will most likely never play for the Ethniki again and that his time with the NT ended as it did. 

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3 hours ago, Brklyngrk said:

I thought Sokratis and Manolas declined invites to the ethniki. He said as much in last interview. Siovas should have been called up.

That is correct, but don't let facts get in the way of a good coach bashing session!

The fact that people still harp on about Manolas and Sokratis despite being given an answer so many times shows part of the issue. People can't move forward and cling onto the past for dear life. FFS people still bring up Ninis who isn't a regular starter at Volos and Samaris who hasn't played in 18 months! Whether JVS stays or not will be not judged on whether he and Manolas go out for frappe when holidaying in Naxos. 

In terms of the manager it could go either way, it looks like he will stay on. I tend to lean towards stability as well, but that doesn't mean JVS will deliver results.

Skibbe was kept on after being trounced by Croatia, the players went into bat for him (Manolas and Sokratis leading the charge) and 4 competitive games later he was sacked. 

 

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You do not keep an underperforming coach just because you don't know who you can get that's better.

 

You look at cutthroat games against minnows and he manages 2-3 shots at goal for 90 minutes. Just not good enough. Couldn't even coach an A-League side to a title and he had good players for the level.

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The way it should be is if the team doesn’t make a major tournament then you find a different coach. We should be employing different coaches every time, until we reach a tournament. Then you stick with that coach. Can’t be continuing on with someone that can’t get the job done. It’s that simple. 

There are rumours that we are looking at Valverde. Hopefully it’s true. EPO need to wake up and stop bringing in low level coaches as it wastes money and time. They need to bring in someone that is of higher quality.

Edited by Dean97
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7 hours ago, Dean97 said:

The way it should be is if the team doesn’t make a major tournament then you find a different coach. We should be employing different coaches every time, until we reach a tournament. Then you stick with that coach. Can’t be continuing on with someone that can’t get the job done. It’s that simple. 

There are rumours that we are looking at Valverde. Hopefully it’s true. EPO need to wake up and stop bringing in low level coaches as it wastes money and time. They need to bring in someone that is of higher quality.

Yes in theory if you don't make a tournament you should change coaches but what happens when your team is in a rebuild? After 2012 when we lost our guys we had to transition into a rebuild but the coaches we had still didn't go that route and tried to hang on to the guys that were left without brining in the youth to start the transitioning them into the national team. That has put us into the position we are in now. I don't think any coach would have got us into a tournament yet in my opinion. Guys after 20012 the team was in shambles.. I'm all for brining in a new reputable coach but don't think for a second all of a sudden our midfield problems are going to go a way or all of a sudden we are going to find a striker that continuously scores. You can argue that we should have made second in this group and maybe you are right but you guys cant tell me we are a better team then Spain or Sweden.. We played Sweden good but overall they are a better team then us so we finished in 3rd which was expected as we were the 3rd best team in the group on paper. We should have got max points from Kosovo and Georgia but Georgia just beat Sweden 2-0 and it took a very late goal for Spain to beat Georgia so take from that what you will. We will always struggle to break down weaker teams that park the bus i don't think that will change right away as back in our good days we were barley getting 1-0 wins and a lot of draws. Regardless i don't think it was all bad with JVS i think he did some good things, I'm just worried that we replace him with a coach that wants us to play a more defensive style of play. Remember JVS came in here and was preaching to play offence and pressing and when it worked it looked good when it didn't work we looked bad but i think that takes time. 

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14 hours ago, Greek Style said:

You do not keep an underperforming coach just because you don't know who you can get that's better.

 

You look at cutthroat games against minnows and he manages 2-3 shots at goal for 90 minutes. Just not good enough. Couldn't even coach an A-League side to a title and he had good players for the level.

Good points.. Those 4 points we dropped to those two countries are sticking out like a sore thumb now as Greece would still have a chance going into the final match of qualifying. I can live with Spain beating us they are a top 3 team in World football. 

Also can JVS if he stays on please start playing our best 11 and players in their natural positions. Not so hard? Even the team I play on our coach does not play players out of place for crying out loud! When we have Fortounis available he does not play him in the #10 role. Instead JVS gives it to Bakasetas and he does not have the technical ability or vision to play that position plain and simple. 

I thought after the NL he would have seen his faults but he keeps going back to his old ways. I hold nothing personal against him he seems like a decent guy but as other posters have said its about qualifying for tournaments. That use to be the standard for the Ethniki.

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21 hours ago, paokarag4 said:

That is correct, but don't let facts get in the way of a good coach bashing session!

The fact that people still harp on about Manolas and Sokratis despite being given an answer so many times shows part of the issue. People can't move forward and cling onto the past for dear life. FFS people still bring up Ninis who isn't a regular starter at Volos and Samaris who hasn't played in 18 months! Whether JVS stays or not will be not judged on whether he and Manolas go out for frappe when holidaying in Naxos. 

In terms of the manager it could go either way, it looks like he will stay on. I tend to lean towards stability as well, but that doesn't mean JVS will deliver results.

Skibbe was kept on after being trounced by Croatia, the players went into bat for him (Manolas and Sokratis leading the charge) and 4 competitive games later he was sacked. 

 

Sound like someone I know … 🙂

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6 hours ago, J1078 said:

Yes in theory if you don't make a tournament you should change coaches but what happens when your team is in a rebuild? After 2012 when we lost our guys we had to transition into a rebuild but the coaches we had still didn't go that route and tried to hang on to the guys that were left without brining in the youth to start the transitioning them into the national team. That has put us into the position we are in now. I don't think any coach would have got us into a tournament yet in my opinion. Guys after 20012 the team was in shambles.. I'm all for brining in a new reputable coach but don't think for a second all of a sudden our midfield problems are going to go a way or all of a sudden we are going to find a striker that continuously scores. You can argue that we should have made second in this group and maybe you are right but you guys cant tell me we are a better team then Spain or Sweden.. We played Sweden good but overall they are a better team then us so we finished in 3rd which was expected as we were the 3rd best team in the group on paper. We should have got max points from Kosovo and Georgia but Georgia just beat Sweden 2-0 and it took a very late goal for Spain to beat Georgia so take from that what you will. We will always struggle to break down weaker teams that park the bus i don't think that will change right away as back in our good days we were barley getting 1-0 wins and a lot of draws. Regardless i don't think it was all bad with JVS i think he did some good things, I'm just worried that we replace him with a coach that wants us to play a more defensive style of play. Remember JVS came in here and was preaching to play offence and pressing and when it worked it looked good when it didn't work we looked bad but i think that takes time. 

J1078 I hear you on the point that JVS has integrated more youth into the squad and that is one of the best things he has done. We have been thin at striker since Mitroglou & Gekas were on the NT but why did he not call up Giakoumakis & Fountas recently to try and solve our scoring woes. JVS in the beginning of his tenure did bring an up tempo and attacking style which was amazing to see us play but against Georgia he had the team sit back and they dictated the play. Also as I mentioned before in Kosovo with a 1 nil lead instead of going to kill of the match he takes of Douvikas (who looked baffled himself) and he plays scared and they hit us with a equalizer that we all could see coming the whole 2nd half. That game we should have put away.

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1 minute ago, Ellada2004 said:

J1078 I hear you on the point that JVS has integrated more youth into the squad and that is one of the best things he has done. We have been thin at striker since Mitroglou & Gekas were on the NT but why did he not call up Giakoumakis & Fountas recently to try and solve our scoring woes. JVS in the beginning of his tenure did bring an up tempo and attacking style which was amazing to see us play but against Georgia he had the team sit back and they dictated the play. Also as I mentioned before in Kosovo with a 1 nil lead instead of going to kill of the match he takes of Douvikas (who looked baffled himself) and he plays scared and they hit us with a equalizer that we all could see coming the whole 2nd half. That game we should have put away.

You bring sokratis, manolas and siovas back to get you to euro 2024. If they do make it, they’re going to want to reap the rewards and play in the tournament in their mid 30s. The epo will reward them and feel obligated to bring them. That would create another 1994 fiasco. 

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2 minutes ago, Jimmyp said:

You bring sokratis, manolas and siovas back to get you to euro 2024. If they do make it, they’re going to want to reap the rewards and play in the tournament in their mid 30s. The epo will reward them and feel obligated to bring them. That would create another 1994 fiasco. 

I get what your saying. I wanted them more for this campaign they could have helped the team and guide the younger guys through a tough qualification campaign. Looking forward for Euro 2024 qualification Manolas at 30 years old can still help us on the pitch and he has the experience of playing at a World Cup & in big CL matches with Roma.

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7 hours ago, J1078 said:

Yes in theory if you don't make a tournament you should change coaches but what happens when your team is in a rebuild? After 2012 when we lost our guys we had to transition into a rebuild but the coaches we had still didn't go that route and tried to hang on to the guys that were left without brining in the youth to start the transitioning them into the national team. That has put us into the position we are in now. I don't think any coach would have got us into a tournament yet in my opinion. Guys after 20012 the team was in shambles.. I'm all for brining in a new reputable coach but don't think for a second all of a sudden our midfield problems are going to go a way or all of a sudden we are going to find a striker that continuously scores. You can argue that we should have made second in this group and maybe you are right but you guys cant tell me we are a better team then Spain or Sweden.. We played Sweden good but overall they are a better team then us so we finished in 3rd which was expected as we were the 3rd best team in the group on paper. We should have got max points from Kosovo and Georgia but Georgia just beat Sweden 2-0 and it took a very late goal for Spain to beat Georgia so take from that what you will. We will always struggle to break down weaker teams that park the bus i don't think that will change right away as back in our good days we were barley getting 1-0 wins and a lot of draws. Regardless i don't think it was all bad with JVS i think he did some good things, I'm just worried that we replace him with a coach that wants us to play a more defensive style of play. Remember JVS came in here and was preaching to play offence and pressing and when it worked it looked good when it didn't work we looked bad but i think that takes time. 

I see what your saying. Greece is not better than Spain and Sweden. But player wise they are better than Kosovo and Georgia and there is no excuse for not putting them way. We played horrible in those games. That’s on the coach for me. We seemed like we didn’t care enough in those games and it cost us. We also failed in the nations league before this campaign. Clearly since then JVS hasn’t learned what’s worked and what hasn’t. I really liked what he did in the beginning as we looked like a positive and attacking team with new young players. Since then our performances have been really inconsistent and we’ve lost our ways. 

Playing Bakasetas has hurt us in my opinion. The only decent game he’s played was against Sweden when he scored. Apart from that he’s been garbage in my opinion. So he’s had a lot of time to correct his mistakes and fails to learn from them. 

I say if a coach like Valverde was to come in and build the team around the expirienced players like Manolas, Siovas and Fortounis and have the best young players who are playing around them to build towards the Euros. Players who have played and play Champions league or Europa should be the core and then players like Tzolis, Douvikas, Alexandropoulos and Galanopoulos should be the ones that should be trusted and will gain loads of experience if they start and get games nearly all the time. Players like Bakasetas, Siopis, Bakakis and Tzavellas have had there time and it’s time to move on and let players like Alexandropoulos, Goutas and Tzolis get more starts and chances.

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Are there people here that feel the national team has NOT been moving in the right direction under JVS?

 

if you feel that the team is moving in the right direction, (fielding some of the youngest teams I recall EVER seeing with the ethniki), why would you replace the coach and start from scratch. I think the coach is starting to really click with the players, and I feel Confident in him moving forward.

i think we really do have an inflated opinion of the abilities of the national team. I think the depth of the team is what has really hurt us. Whenever we have an injury or a suspension it feels like we’re picking people off the street to play the needed positions. 
 

 

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50 minutes ago, Bardouuu said:

Are there people here that feel the national team has NOT been moving in the right direction under JVS?

 

if you feel that the team is moving in the right direction, (fielding some of the youngest teams I recall EVER seeing with the ethniki), why would you replace the coach and start from scratch. I think the coach is starting to really click with the players, and I feel Confident in him moving forward.

i think we really do have an inflated opinion of the abilities of the national team. I think the depth of the team is what has really hurt us. Whenever we have an injury or a suspension it feels like we’re picking people off the street to play the needed positions. 
 

 

I agree 100 percent. Some of these guys are thinking they have all this magical talented players and it falls on the coach. The players are not Messi Ronaldo. Fati mbappe etc. They have slim pickings. And those of you crying to wanna play in form players then are complaining when bakasetas is playing. I’m not saying he should or shouldn’t be but he’s been arguably the best player in the Turkish league this year. A lot of the problems lie in the selections also. I’m not saying goutas didn’t play well but in my opinion if you don’t have a cap by 23 or 24 forget it. I wouldn’t use them 

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The core of players he has chosen haven’t gotten us over the line. Bakasetas, Zeca, Bakakis, Kourbelis, Pavlidis and Tzavellas haven’t lead this team to success. These are the guys that have had the most caps under JVS…

This is what happens when you don’t take care of your best players and work with them like Fetfatzidis, Manolas and Fortounis. International football is different, you can’t work with different tactics and players every week. So you should pick your best players and hopefully the tactics and formations will work for you on the day. You need all you can get and JVS and EPO have limited the team with excluding it’s best players. But not just that, it’s the core of players JVS has relied on and the tactics he has put in. 

We dropped points against Georgia and Kosovo with that core. We got lucky with the draw against Spain and now we lost recently to Spain and Sweden. If we were to at least hold on and beat Kosovo and Georgia we wouldn’t be in the position we are at the moment. The coach is to blame for the poor performances. 

In my opinion get rid of that core of players entirely, except Pavlidis and bring in a new core like Manolas, Fortounis, Fetfatzidis, Fountas, Alexandropoulos… and a manager at a decent level and watch this team transform into a successful team. 

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3 hours ago, Jimmyp said:

I agree 100 percent. Some of these guys are thinking they have all this magical talented players and it falls on the coach. The players are not Messi Ronaldo. Fati mbappe etc. They have slim pickings. And those of you crying to wanna play in form players then are complaining when bakasetas is playing. I’m not saying he should or shouldn’t be but he’s been arguably the best player in the Turkish league this year. A lot of the problems lie in the selections also. I’m not saying goutas didn’t play well but in my opinion if you don’t have a cap by 23 or 24 forget it. I wouldn’t use them 

 

We are good enough to easily account for the Georgias and Kosovos of Europe and he failed to get a result when it really mattered against these two. And his choice of tactics was rubbish, fancy playing careful defensive football against those two teams, when you're playing at home in a must win game? Even against Spain we needed to win FFS so when we went 1-0 he changed nothing! NOTHING! Are you kidding me JVS for what reason would you not got for the win? Worst vase scenario we go down fighting and lose 3-0 or 4-1.

 

To me he's clearly been protecting his job, too scared to take the risks required for reward.

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