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2022 WCQ: Greece - Georgia (31 Mar. 2021 - Toumba, Thessaloniki)


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Alright I let this settle in a bit. I was massivly disapointed after the game but not about the result and final score but how we looked like strangers out there. The dropoff from Bakakis to Mavrias severely hindered ball movement. We hqve no debth especially at rb....prob the worst injury we could have taken in this game.

 

Fortunis needs to play his natural position as hes still prob our best player. Im act glad both Zeca and Giokoumakis will be clear after they sit out vs Kosovo. Really both of Zeca's fouls in both games were needed. The spain yellow vs Giokoumakis was pretty much made up(ive watched it several times in slow mo) Today his yellow was horrible after only a few seconds on the pitch. 

 

We now need to sweep Kosovo,beat georgia and beat sweden once and prob draw the other.

 

This was always going to be an uphill climb in this group and its very likely were only 1 pt behind sweden after matchday 4 (3 for us). 

 

 

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Bro let me tell you something you’re the type of guy that will cheer for the team when they’re playing well and then come out here and start telling everybody “I told you so” you’re like the little we

Starting lineup was just announced !!! Courtesy of sportime  Vlachodimos  bakakis k paps tzavellas giannoulis  zeca bouchalakis  fortunis bakasetas tzolis  pavlidis  

It was a bad game, felt like a loss.  After a string of promising football, we played bad.  By promising, I mean creating shots on goal, keeping possession. This was the first time I saw a JVS coached

I am a fan of JVS and what he has done so far with the Ethniki but today he shot himself in the foot. The team was flat and was only pressing half assed, ok it happens you could hear JVS yelling "press" and "up" so the tactics didn't change, for whatever reason the players weren't able to execute. Understandable every team has those days, now let's take a look at JVS's managerial decisions that sealed our fate. 

You don't sub off Tzolis your biggest goal threat at HT. For an out of form and average Limnios none the less. Limnios is not half the player Tzolis is, Tzolis is direct, runs at defenders and has good goal sense. Limnios takes too many touches and keeps his head down when dribbling. Mistake number 1. 

JVS was too slow in pulling the trigger on Giakoumakis and Masouras, they should've been on earlier. At the latest on the hour mark, if not 55 mins in or so. Mistake number 2. 

Something that I think was worth trying was what we saw in the Cyprus friendly back in November, Bakaestas playing deeper with Fortounis as the dekari. We couldn't move the ball out of our half, it was worth dropping an attacking mid deeper to try move the ball out and get us going. Mistake number 3. 

A big issue for us was where we had our possession it was knocked between our CB's for large chunks, it was a throw back to the dark days of no creativity and desire to get forward. Yet when Georgia had their spells on the ball we allowed them into our half and to have the ball in dangerous areas (twice they nearly got through one on one, once was marginally offside the other the Georgian player couldn't get his foot to the ball)  

It wasn't a good night, you could tell early we were off and Georgia as many of us had suspected were no pushovers. JVS unfortunately did not help dig us out of the hole, it's his first real bad match as manager of the NT. Let's see how he and the squad bounce back. 

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Before you guys jump down my throat let me start by saying I don’t like playing guys out of positions but since JVS does it all the time with certain guys anyways then why not go with something like this? How much worse can Tsimikas be on his offside then The guys we had there today? 

Tsmikas kpap Tzavellas Giannoulis

               Zeca  Bouch

Masouras Fortounis Tzolis

            Giakoumakis 

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10 minutes ago, J1078 said:

Before you guys jump down my throat let me start by saying I don’t like playing guys out of positions but since JVS does it all the time with certain guys anyways then why not go with something like this? How much worse can Tsimikas be on his offside then The guys we had there today? 


Honestly at this point I agree, right back is a massive problem and since JVS seems to have no interest in calling up and trying Kitsiou/G.Masouras (I haven't been crazy on G.Masouras getting a call-up but at least he's a starter)

It's worth trying a left-back there at this stage, which just speaks to how poor we are at right back.....

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I just finished watching the game. Stayed away while I recorded it. Oh well. It happens. I thought we’d have 3 points after today. Instead we have 2. That’s only one less. Lots of football left. Anything can happen. If I came in here and told everyone I’ll take the skops today everyone would have bet me. I’d have everyone’s life savings, houses, cars, wives and dogs. Lots of time left. 

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3 hours ago, AEK RE GAMOTO said:

I'm not implying anything.

What I am saying is that when our country, our team, loses and loses a match we all expected to win, peoples moods will be adversely affected. The last thing anyone wants to see right at the last whistle is trash talking in a "i told you so" tone. Its pathetic.

I have no problem stating how poorly and flat Greece played today. We are all gutted. I'll never come in though and kick everyone while they're down....

You re missing the bigger picture. Tow questions for you.

When was the last time your team won a team we weren't expected to? I ll tell you. Netherlands - Greece friendly 1-2. 2016

How many teams have we underperformed against and lost or drew to a team that we were expecting to win since JVS started coaching the team? JVS was hired july 2019. Let's start:
Finland away loss (im a realist and believe a draw would be a decent result btw). Liechtenstein draw.
Kossovo once. Slovenia twice. Georgia now.

The guy has us snatching 50% of results vs teams like Finland,Georgia, Kossovo. He literally made us a 4-5th tier team, as there is no result that proves that we are/can be better. And you re okay with it. We had the usual comment "give him time." Next national team window he ll be 2 years and 2 months in the NT and he has achieved NOTHING compared to his presuccessors. Skibbe got us in the fcking play off spot and had us score twice in 180 minutes to the eventual runner up croatia. How much more CALMA do I need to be? And when I come and say "ah look a s%$#! result" you and more than half of this forum accuses me of being toxic.

The team is s%$#!. The players arent. We are no Spain and France and have the ability to field 11 players who all play in teams that made it to the Champions League and Europa League Semifinals every year. But goddamn we have professional players in top leagues (Giannoulis, Tsimikas, Vlachodimos, Mavropanos,). We have star players who have a beef with Epo since JVS joined (Manolas, Siovas). We have players in champion-mentality teams in mediocre leagues (Zeka, Siopis,Bakasetas,Pelkas, Tzavellas who was this window's mvp for me). We have Olympiakos GREEK players who always manage to look competitive and look like they can fit in when they play with elite teams in C.L. and Europa league (Fortounis, Masouras Bouchalakis, even Vrousai and Androutsos). Almost all mentioned have more than half of the maximum playtime available this season.

Take a look at the line ups of Slovenia x2, Kossovo, Georgia, Liechtenstein. Look at their players. You need to tell me that more than half of our matches under JVS, vs teams that I should expect my team to beat, were "bad luck"? Or do you want me to believe my players are not good enough? They re not good, don't get me wrong, but they re much better than you make it look like.

This coach is a clown. This is his circus. Apparently 2 years werent enough for him to prove his worth. He just needs some more time. All we gotta do is drop 20 more spots on the ranking, so that we end up in League D, and finally MAYBE win something.

So, to answer your question, I do not care if you believe i am toxic for stating something you are so tired of seeing. Either I start saying what an amazing team performance this was to manage to snatch a draw and not lose, or I start saying that the team is s%$#!, and we, as a country, are not looking to be able to step up our post 2014 era, my stance, my irony and my toxic behaviour will not change the fact that another qualification tournament started with a γκέλα. 

Eπίσης, είδα και ένα σχόλιο που έλεγε οτι η Γεωργία είναι καλύτερη απ ότι φαίνονται. Αυτό σας πέρασε τόσο απαρατήρητο; Χάλι μαύρο ήτανε εκτός από το αριστερό εξτρέμ. Είχανε τον καράφλα τον 36χρονο να αμύνεται στο κέντρο μόνος του γιατί δεν τους βάλαμε ποτέ να παίξουν άμυνα σε γρήγορη αντεπίθεση. Η ίδια τους εντεκάδα έτρεξε το παραλίγο Χ με την Ισπανία πριν 3 μέρες. Τέσπα αφού η ηττοπάθεια είναι το concept γύρω από το οποίο κινείται το φόρουμ ίσως χρειάζεται να αποχωρήσω.


 

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The EPO budget is tiny for a coach so if you think we are getting anyone with any type of wining pedigree you’re wrong they won’t come here. There’s no question we are not getting the results that’s not up for debate. We should be beating these lesser teams but this goes back to Raneri where we were losing to the Faroe Islands and Skibbe who we had some bad results with and even tied Estonia FFS at home in a must win game. Don’t forget Skibbe also cost us that first game against Croatia with his unbelievably bad experimental line up, you mentioned the fact that we tied Croatia in the 2nd game but you ignored how bad his coaching decisions were in the first game that ultimately gave us no chance in the second game. JVS has got us not losing as we are on an undefeated streak for a while now but I do acknowledge it’s nowhere near good enough especially if we’re not beating these lower tier teams which is unacceptable. Not beating Slovenia and Kosovo was bad and JVS by now should Have the team winning these type of games there’s no question you won’t get an argument from me about that, but going back to my original point with the money the EPO has to spend on a coach you’re not going find anybody much better at the current moment. Also the Manolas thing and him not being part of the team I read somewhere that it had nothing to do with JVS, it said as long as the EPO president is still there he won’t be part of the National team.

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After two games the major problem is that Greece are not threating in attack and creating chances as we did when JVS came into the fold in 2019. There were games were we saw 15 +attempts at goal vs Bosnia, Finland and Armenia I recall. Our problem then was mainly finishing now we have had 2 goals one from a penalty and the other an OG. Today we were slow moving the ball and so many times Bakestas would play the ball backwards and destroy our attack when we could press forward. That was just incredibly frustrating to watch.

Georgia created better chances from open play and Vlachodimos had to make a nice save on a free kick and a save at the end of the game on a shot from Kankava or else we would have lost. Defense is an issue too once we got the lead we should have seen out the win with 15 minutes left, this is another problem not being able to keep clean sheets under JVS. I can understand giving up a goal to Spain away but these smaller countries like Kosovo, FInland and even Liechenstein have scored vs us under JVS. 

JVS has to be sharper vs Kosovo if we cant beat them with their recent run of form then he has to go ASAP. The only positive is that after being outplayed in two matches with not even a shot on target we somehow have 2 points. 

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The teams biggest problem I’ve noticed is speed. So many times, they were caught from behind. Are there any fast guys out there? 

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50 minutes ago, J1078 said:

The EPO budget is tiny for a coach so if you think we are getting anyone with any type of wining pedigree you’re wrong they won’t come here. There’s no question we are not getting the results that’s not up for debate. We should be beating these lesser teams but this goes back to Raneri where we were losing to the Faroe Islands and Skibbe who we had some bad results with and even tied Estonia FFS at home in a must win game. Don’t forget Skibbe also cost us that first game against Croatia with his unbelievably bad experimental line up, you mentioned the fact that we tied Croatia in the 2nd game but you ignored how bad his coaching decisions were in the first game that ultimately gave us no chance in the second game. JVS has got us not losing as we are on an undefeated streak for a while now but I do acknowledge it’s nowhere near good enough especially if we’re not beating these lower tier teams which is unacceptable. Not beating Slovenia and Kosovo was bad and JVS by now should Have the team winning these type of games there’s no question you won’t get an argument from me about that, but going back to my original point with the money the EPO has to spend on a coach you’re not going find anybody much better at the current moment. Also the Manolas thing and him not being part of the team I read somewhere that it had nothing to do with JVS, it said as long as the EPO president is still there he won’t be part of the National team.

I heard on Greek radio after the match that EPO should go after Donis but he makes good $ coaching in the Saudi league. Maybe Ouzonidis? Now that Zagorakis is EPO president I hope he can bring back Manolas we need him come September.

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Why cant we at least have like mitroglou and fetzfazidis on the bench at least.

Maybe they can still help us score and create offense.

If we cant create offense around these type of teams we need to change things back

Of course we are not losing matches but we cannot turn the corner offensively.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, J1078 said:

Bro let me tell you something you’re the type of guy that will cheer for the team when they’re playing well and then come out here and start telling everybody “I told you so” you’re like the little weasel that likes to start arguments and then turtles when it comes down to it.. I’ve dealt with guys like you on numerous occasions..

Lmao badass. You can find my comment in the game against Spain, was pointing out that we are going to drop points against Kosovo and Georgia with that kind of play but PaokCT and some people like you started mocking and laughing with me.

They are the same people who got their pants wet after a game where we couldn't sting 3 passes together and have NO knowlegde about football.

Never mind as I will be laughing with people like you who and you in personal.

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JVS had included Pavlidis, who scored two in the friendly, moved Bakasetas back from leading the line, brought in Giannoulis, brought in Fortounis, even though on the wing, could still cut back toward the middle of the field and started Tzolis on the right. The only move I thought was not great was to start Bakakis who often gets turned around by the opposing attackers. Like to of seen Androutsos there.

The players are still having a hectic time trying to score from open play. Against Spain it was a fortunate penalty, and against Georgey, it was an own goal to our benefit. 

What does it take to get some more expertise and/or confidence with goalscoring?

Edited by ausgreek
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3 hours ago, Boxou said:

Lmao badass. You can find my comment in the game against Spain, was pointing out that we are going to drop points against Kosovo and Georgia with that kind of play but PaokCT and some people like you started mocking and laughing with me.

They are the same people who got their pants wet after a game where we couldn't sting 3 passes together and have NO knowlegde about football.

Never mind as I will be laughing with people like you who and you in personal.

Some people stressed lets enjoy the point against Spain as bad as the team looked offensively. Maybe they didn't stress it in the nicest way but we struggled to beat some weaker teams so guys were happy getting a point against Spain. So it was little annoying the minute the Spain game was over to hear we are going to drop points to Georgia. Also you came on here yesterday the minute the whistle blew after the game and told guys "TO SHUT THEIR FCKING MOUTH AND GO TO HELL" That's what triggered some guys including myself to react. Frustrations are high all around I get that at the end of the day we all want this team to improve and start wining games with consistency and right now we are struggling to beat these weaker teams and if it continues like this we will never make another tournament again. Changes have to be made but as i mentioned before we will not get a world class coach that wont happen. At the end of the day JVS needs to be better and make smarter decisions if he's going to stay. Right now i don't know what the solution is with this team it's frustrating as hell watching them pass the ball back and get outplayed by Georgia in a game they probably should have lost. Personally i don't see how we even have a chance at 2nd after drooping points yesterday as we all said from the beginning if we want a chance at second we need to sweep Kosovo and Georgia.

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11 hours ago, Rockafeller Skank said:

And when I come and say "ah look a s%$#! result" you and more than half of this forum accuses me of being toxic.

 

Dude...I think you have me mistaken with somebody else.

I have never had any personal interactions on here with you. I never said you were toxic. In fact, I actually value what you write and often agree with most of what you have to say.

Again, all I was stating is that the last thing people want to see after a shitty loss is a known ballbreaker (not you) come on here and attack other forumers. This is a huge difference from having a heated debate. Debate is good and allows for the exchange of ideas.

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Result was disappointing but we didn’t deserve the win and that was just as disappointing. Two shots on target. The performance was a concern. Someone said this and I have to agree The lineup was right, but tactics were not.


I thought Tzolis should have started on the left. Fortounis on the right. As they did with Honduras.

Tziolis shouldn’t have come off. Coach and captain have to support and get the best out of him. He has the ability just needs time. He’s a creater, and gets in positions. Goals will come sooner or later.

Bakasetas didn’t impact the match. His presence not felt. This is most concerning as he’s team captain. Hard to understand what his role is as he’s not linking well with defenders and forwards.

Mavrias fell at a crucial time. Cost us. Same play, Limnios switched off. Their no. 18 had to be man marked and not allowed time and space on the ball anywhere near the box.

Giakoumakis strayed offside from a set piece. Cost us the go ahead goal.

Giakoumakis and Zecca suspended next match.

Edited by kbxk508
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It was a bad game, felt like a loss.  After a string of promising football, we played bad.  By promising, I mean creating shots on goal, keeping possession. This was the first time I saw a JVS coached team not press, not hustle. That's what I think was disappointing. Also the insistence of starting Bakasetas is starting to annoy all of us as we can see he is the answer.

The people gloating that we lost, sorry, you are in the wrong forums.  The cursing on top of it, honestly, what kind of reaction did you expect?

Someone earlier asked about Vrousai, he's injured or he would have been called up.

 

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13 hours ago, J1078 said:

The EPO budget is tiny for a coach so if you think we are getting anyone with any type of wining pedigree you’re wrong they won’t come here. There’s no question we are not getting the results that’s not up for debate. We should be beating these lesser teams but this goes back to Raneri where we were losing to the Faroe Islands and Skibbe who we had some bad results with and even tied Estonia FFS at home in a must win game. Don’t forget Skibbe also cost us that first game against Croatia with his unbelievably bad experimental line up, you mentioned the fact that we tied Croatia in the 2nd game but you ignored how bad his coaching decisions were in the first game that ultimately gave us no chance in the second game. JVS has got us not losing as we are on an undefeated streak for a while now but I do acknowledge it’s nowhere near good enough especially if we’re not beating these lower tier teams which is unacceptable. Not beating Slovenia and Kosovo was bad and JVS by now should Have the team winning these type of games there’s no question you won’t get an argument from me about that, but going back to my original point with the money the EPO has to spend on a coach you’re not going find anybody much better at the current moment. Also the Manolas thing and him not being part of the team I read somewhere that it had nothing to do with JVS, it said as long as the EPO president is still there he won’t be part of the National team.

JVS has only faced one team that is not 4th-5th tier in the European teams ranking. That is spain last week. We are not losing to them micronations but we are not winning them more than 50% of our matches. Does this comment mean we agree that we became a 4th-5th tier team a well? Realistically, since we can't really prove dominance against them and secure 3pointers against them on most occassions, or at least look like we can, it does. We are a 4th-5th tier team with 2nd-3rd tier players. How can you guys be okay with that and "trust the process". It's been 2 years since the process started. 

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1 minute ago, Rockafeller Skank said:

JVS has only faced one team that is not 4th-5th tier in the European teams ranking. That is spain last week. We are not losing to them but we are not winning them more than 50% of our matches. Does this comment mean we agree that we became a 4th-5th tier team a well? Realistically, since we can't really prove dominance against them and secure 3pointers against them on most occassions, or at least look like we can, it does.

I agree with you, But we have also faced Italy with JVS and although we didn't win we had what i thought was a good performance in Italy where we attacked more an even scored a goal and it was unfortunate we didn't get a result. We  should be better then a 4th or 5th tier team but the results right now are not proving it. JVS has done some good things but it's clearly not enough but going through so many coaches the last several years he has had the team playing better prior to our last two games. Obviously if a better coach becomes available they should go after him but once again it wont happen on the EPO's budget that's the point I'm trying to make.

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Its funny throughout the years different coaches players and we have same problems no creativity in midfield, cant hold up the ball under pressure and struggle against lesser teams. Whats the problem? I think EPO and lack of player development..  

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The phenomenon of what has happened to our team in the last 7 years is mind boggling to me.

I'll keep it simple. When I see small football nations like Georgia, Armenia, the Skops, Cyprus, and so many more play decent, attacking/threatening football I struggle to understand why we are as piss poor as we are. Greece has been so bad at times that there have been instances where I believed my pre-Covid Friday night beer league football team could beat Greece. We all know there have been countless such ugly displays by Greece. Its mind boggling. As others have pointed out, we have players playing on some decent teams. Not Juventus or Real Madrid type teams, but decent nonetheless. To watch them not be able to string a couple of passes and progress fluidly up the field against a Georgia is simply put, a mind F***. I don't know what the hell it is. Is it lack of passion by the players? Coaching? Us overestimating the talent of our players? I'm gutted and lost guys...

 

Edited by AEK RE GAMOTO
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20 hours ago, J1078 said:

Before you guys jump down my throat let me start by saying I don’t like playing guys out of positions but since JVS does it all the time with certain guys anyways then why not go with something like this? How much worse can Tsimikas be on his offside then The guys we had there today? 

Tsmikas kpap Tzavellas Giannoulis

               Zeca  Bouch

Masouras Fortounis Tzolis

            Giakoumakis 

I think this squad would've pulled out the win. No way Tsimikas does any worse than Mavrias against their goal-scorer, regardless of natural position.

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2 hours ago, AEK RE GAMOTO said:

The phenomenon of what has happened to our team in the last 7 years is mind boggling to me.

I'll keep it simple. When I see small football nations like Georgia, Armenia, the Skops, Cyprus, and so many more play decent, attacking/threatening football I struggle to understand why we are as piss poor as we are. Greece has been so bad at times that there have been instances where I believed my pre-Covid Friday night beer league football team could beat Greece. We all know there have been countless such ugly displays by Greece. Its mind boggling. As others have pointed out, we have players playing on some decent teams. Not Juventus or Real Madrid type teams, but decent nonetheless. To watch them not be able to string a couple of passes and progress fluidly up the field against a Georgia is simply put, a mind F***. I don't know what the hell it is. Is it lack of passion by the players? Coaching? Us overestimating the talent of our players? I'm gutted and lost guys...

 

Definitely I can’t believe these smaller countries are starting to get results against European powerhouses and we are just pretty much stuck in the same boat from 2014. Greece have had some good results in between but we HAVE to be better and perform better consistently with the players on our roster. Greece have more talented players than the countries you listed but the coaching,EPO and other factors seem to be holding us back. It’s so dam frustrating that Greece in a match you have to get 3 points at home tied Georgia and yet we were actually lucky that we did not lose even though it feels like a loss. JVS said he will ultimately be judged on Project Qatar, right now it’s looking very tough and if we can’t get a win vs Kosovo than I don’t think he should be able to finish his project!!

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If you guys remember Greece was held at home to Georgia during the EURO 2012 qualifiers. 
They have not lost one single match during qualifications. Against Croatia, 1 win 1 draw, against Israel 1 win 1 draw, Georgia 1 draw 1 win (even though Greece needed a draw to qualify as group winners). So it is still possible Greece can win this group or grab a playoff spot as long as they win the remaining matches with the exception of getting one draw vs. either Sweden or Spain. All hope is not lost. 

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31 minutes ago, Molon Lave said:

If you guys remember Greece was held at home to Georgia during the EURO 2012 qualifiers. 
They have not lost one single match during qualifications. Against Croatia, 1 win 1 draw, against Israel 1 win 1 draw, Georgia 1 draw 1 win (even though Greece needed a draw to qualify as group winners). So it is still possible Greece can win this group or grab a playoff spot as long as they win the remaining matches with the exception of getting one draw vs. either Sweden or Spain. All hope is not lost. 

True I expect them to give Sweden a battle I just can’t understand what there plan was yesterday and why the performance was so sub par? First got to get the win vs Kosovo another weak side that’s our problem.

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