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CL-PO-L2: PAOK - Krasnodar (30-Sep-20, 22:00 EEST)


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It earns you 4 points - equivalent to 2 wins.  With the co-efficient points a win counts as 2 points, and a draw as 1.  I wouldn't expect we'd get anything more than 1 win and 1 draw in addition to that, so 7 points total.  In UL, I think we could, potentially.  Anyway, we'll see.

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PAOK, Abel…within real reach, but a tragedy. Repeated history. Fail to access CL group stage again. Endless frustration.

3-4-3, more fear to concede than to invade. Focus on defensive recovery, compactability, all together. Control and avoid a high defensive line. Pressure flashes and intermittent combinations. Crespo, central back at right wing, 3 in front but without a striker. Loss of time, loss of game. Some good moments but generally tasteless, without urgency, when we needed to make a result (at least 1-0). Too much time to "wake up". And the cumulus of the own goal against. Suddenly panic, finally dare and then 1-1. It seemed easy. Why not sooner?! But then also 1-2, 1 minute later. Surreal fragility. The fatal side of taking more risks, but quickly uncover at the back (already without Varela). There is questionable individual quality, but the tactical blanket is short.

Again killed by suicide. All this in a disturbing Toumba… .a volcano turned into an empty cemetery.

Edited by bluevertigo
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A formula of Cabella and a missing right back and striker cost us a place in the CL groups. Now that the UEFA mafia are introducing a Conference League (I dread to think what sort of quality we will see in that), we will never make the CL group stages. My whole life I waited for this moment and it is gone because we didn't get a right back and a striker. Then again I am one of the younger ones, I feel more sorry for the older lads here who waited even longer.

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It seemed so reachable. 

Even understanding the focus on equilibrium, balance, I always expected more willingless to invade, more desire, more risk. Too much rational, and no effetive attacking connections, solutions. 

Globally poor and again: not only an individual quality issue. For this proposed tactical approach, no real fluid processes.  

 

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2 hours ago, PAOKSYD said:

Go buy new socks kai ase mas about paok. Your going to tell PAOK what to do, with what right re abale

I am fine with my current red and white socks thank you. It would be a shame if your club is going down the wrong direction like Panathinaikos. 

Edited by Molon Lave
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13 minutes ago, Soprano76 said:

I would not say PAOK are going down the wrong direction. They seem to be much better off these past few years than pre-Savvidis. 

But also holy F***. I hope this team takes Europa seriously this year. They will be in pot 2 so they will probably be drawn with 2 bozo teams. 

I have asked you this before but I think I missed your reply. Which team do you support?

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1 hour ago, Soprano76 said:

But also holy F***. I hope this team takes Europa seriously this year. They will be in pot 2 so they will probably be drawn with 2 bozo teams. 

Unless there are some miracles in tomorrows EL games, PAOK will be in pot 3, and will probably play one powerhouse (Roma, Napoli, Benfica) from pot 1, one team of our caliber (pot 2), and one weaker team (at least on paper) from pot 4. We should progress from the group stage and try our best in the knockout rounds. 

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All four of their goals were cheap.

1) Giannoulis going down like that in the box should be punished with at least a week's wages

2) Another calamity at the back, pretty much a duplicate of the goal we conceded against Slovan

3) I have no idea why Michailidis is trying to flick the ball. Just stick your leg out and block it. I thought at first it may be lack of experience but this was actually a Sunday league error

4) Our defence ball watching allowed for another tap in for that French "c u next Tuesday" who, to give credit where due, is an excellent player

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4 hours ago, Bananas said:

Bananes mate.  If we played them again, we'd lose again.  As Athens4 said the guy that made the difference was Cabella - well they payed 12 million for him.  We crack a fat when we pay 3 million for a player.  We're not there financially, it's as simple as that.  And each year it gets harder as the gap between those already in the CL and those that aren't increases.  It is what it is.

Realistically, we have a better chance of earning more co-efficient points in EL.  As for money, more will go Olympiacos and the cycle continues.

I agree that Cabella is a quality player but PAOK let a huge opportunity slip away, especially after the first leg. Today they were in the game until the 73rd minute and then an unfortunate own goal and on the second goal they cheaply concede after they tie the match. Personally I thought they were going to get through Krasnodar, it would have been awesome to see them in the CL where it would have been tough for them but who knows maybe they would have picked up some points and it would have been fun to watch.

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Crespo had a nightmare performance, I was calling for Wague but he was actually worse.

Subbing Pelkas, not only the single playmaker one the park but our captain and leader, (need I even mention how important it is to have someone out there like that when things get desperate) was a rookie mistake, Tzolis was the correct substitution.

Michalidis was either tired or just lazy/casual those last 25 minutes, I’m not surprised he made that mistake after seeing his body language just minutes prior.

All in all, a standard PAOK let down. I failed to get my hopes up for Besiktas and Benfica, and typical PAOK, they give us a reason to believe, only to have a loss hurt 10x as much. 
 

Hopefully we can have some good results in Europe and get back on track in league, put this behind us, but I have a feeling there will be some scarring. 

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3 minutes ago, Pontos said:

Crespo had a nightmare performance, I was calling for Wague but he was actually worse.

Subbing Pelkas, not only the single playmaker one the park but our captain and leader, (need I even mention how important it is to have someone out there like that when things get desperate) was a rookie mistake, Tzolis was the correct substitution.

Michalidis was either tired or just lazy/casual those last 25 minutes, I’m not surprised he made that mistake after seeing his body language just minutes prior.

All in all, a standard PAOK let down. I failed to get my hopes up for Besiktas and Benfica, and typical PAOK, they give us a reason to believe, only to have a loss hurt 10x as much. 
 

Hopefully we can have some good results in Europe and get back on track in league, put this behind us, but I have a feeling there will be some scarring. 

Ferreira subbing of Pelkas made no sense, will see how long he can keep his job. 

I hope PAOK will at least get through whatever group they are handed in Europa!

Good luck..

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Just now, Ellada2004 said:

Ferreira subbing of Pelkas made no sense, will see how long he can keep his job. 

I hope PAOK will at least get through whatever group they are handed in Europa!

Good luck..

I like Pelkas, I don't like Abel.

But Pelkas only lasts or 60 min. Always. 

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49 minutes ago, Ellada2004 said:

Ferreira subbing of Pelkas made no sense, will see how long he can keep his job. 

I hope PAOK will at least get through whatever group they are handed in Europa!

Good luck..

Made a lot of sense considering the "system" he plays. He is not a CF.

Having said that, the "system" is the problem not Pelkas. Something has to give when you play with 3 centre backs.

Pelkas is an attacking mid that should be part of a 3 man midfield in a 4-3-3 or 4-2-1-3 if you like.

 

 

 

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on paper him subbing pelkas made no sense. pelkas was on a yellow, could have had a second. when things got desperate pelkas is not smart enough to keep his feet to himself.

the hardest one for me to understand was the taking varela off instead of michailidis. varela at least has some presence from set pieces and michailidis was very poor.

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7 hours ago, Ellada2004 said:

Typically yes but today he seemed to have more left to give.

With a yellow card, all nervous and pressure on the air, he could be powder keg. But I would always prefer to have him playing more minutes. Even worn out. In any case, in this case I can understand Abel. On the other options, not at all. 

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6 hours ago, kozi said:

Made a lot of sense considering the "system" he plays. He is not a CF.

Having said that, the "system" is the problem not Pelkas. Something has to give when you play with 3 centre backs.

Pelkas is an attacking mid that should be part of a 3 man midfield in a 4-3-3 or 4-2-1-3 if you like.

 

 

 

The problem is the system with these players he choose. No centre forward? Crespo at the right wing in a 3-4-3 (5-2-3)?! Loss of time and game. There was the need in getting, at least, 1-0....

All systems are valid but need the right players, options, dynamics. 

Edited by bluevertigo
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4 hours ago, Nea Bafra said:

on paper him subbing pelkas made no sense. pelkas was on a yellow, could have had a second. when things got desperate pelkas is not smart enough to keep his feet to himself.

the hardest one for me to understand was the taking varela off instead of michailidis. varela at least has some presence from set pieces and michailidis was very poor.

Totally agree on Pelkas and Varela. 

Varela would be important at that time (0-1). In attacking set pieces (winning aerial balls) and even on a better positioning at defensive recovery.   

Maybe Abel did not want to "double-kill" Michailidis's confidence after the own-goal. 

Abel...what an inability...one more season with him!??! Come back Lucescu....yesterday!

 

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There are 2 reasons we lost.  Its very simple. 

1.  We had Crespo playing Matos' position AND in the style of Matos, even though it isn't his skill set WHILE MATOS IS SITTING AT HOME BEING PAID!

2. We started without a striker.  I would have AT THE VERY LEAST started the Swiderski and get Colak in there early if it didn't work out....or just start Colak straight up.

Those are all coaching issues.  Crespo, to his credit, played his heart out.  He just isn't built to be an attacking player.  He doesn't have the smart pass or shot for it.

I think a 4-2-3-1 formation would have been more compatible to our roster.

Edited by BostonThanatos
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40 minutes ago, BostonThanatos said:

There are 2 reasons we lost.  Its very simple. 

1.  We had Crespo playing Matos' position AND in the style of Matos, even though it isn't his skill set WHILE MATOS IS SITTING AT HOME BEING PAID!

2. We started without a striker.  I would have AT THE VERY LEAST started the Swiderski and get Colak in there early if it didn't work out....or just start Colak straight up.

Those are all coaching issues.  Crespo, to his credit, played his heart out.  He just isn't built to be an attacking player.  He doesn't have the smart pass or shot for it.

I think a 4-2-3-1 formation would have been more compatible to our roster.

Agree.

Crespo on the flank.....what a mess...for himself (his own "protection") and the squad. 

I also prefer a 4-2-3-1 and maybe, yes, more compatible with what we have.

Comparing to the previous season Abel understood and now avoid to start playing too low in the pitch. Avoid suicidal passes and minimizing fatal mistakes at the back. Now we play in a more direct style. In that sense, I thought it was even promising. But this guy complicates the simple and I don't see fluid processes independently on the way he wants the team to play. 

Abel is a "lost case/cause", I think. No horizon.

Edited by bluevertigo
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I do agree that Pelkas shouldn't have been subbed. Bitch to me about it if you want, but he's our best player, hands-down.

Should have started with a real striker. If you're not confident on Colak, then put Swiderski in there. He has the quality. Considering how much time we spent near their box, it beggars belief that we wouldn't put a poacher in there.

I was honestly in such a blind rage that I didn't notice the Varela-Michailidis substitution issue. Still too angry to look at the stats, but yes you should be subbing the kid who just turned suicidal over the solid veteran.

 

I don't particularly mind the formation, but when we NEED to score, we should be playing a smarter system. 4-3-3 or something similar. We didn't need three CBs in that lineup; Ingason and Varela (or Crespo in there) would have been just fine.

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