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Euro 2020 Group J - Greece vs Armenia (11 June 2019, Olympic Stadium, Athens)


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23 hours ago, georgelaz said:

Sokratis's saying that we can't make it is loser mentality. Sorry. I'm from kalamata like him so I have a soft spot for him but that's a loser mentality. Not captain material and diva behaviour. He's good in the good times and a baby in the bad times.

We've lost to Albania in qualifiers and some other minnows before. You gotta have a never say die attitude. 

This shows one of the main problems with the NT. The psychology is off. The talent is there because we're clearly better than Armenia. We're . underperforming. Team should invest in sports psychologists and some Tony Robbins seminars, seriously..

I agree, not the first time Papastathopoulos has made statements like this, not the right message for young players and from our leader.

Anastasiadis has every right to say, if you think we have no hope you shouldn’t be part of this. On his side, coach needs to look at some of these call ups and if we have premadonas in the squad that’s a bigger issue. I’m personally starting to question the motivation of Socrates, Manolas & Toro... why did Toro have a bif with Angelo? Or visa versa... our experienced guys seem to be crying and playing the worst (exc Fortounis) - think about it

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My wife is Portuguese. My father in law explained to me what happened to portugal.  They never qualified. In World Cup 66 they finally made it and finished 3rd. Then they never qualified till Eur

This might be my interpretation but I’m reading between the lines here. Something is very wrong internally and you can see it manifest in the game itself.  Socrates is actually being very brave, he se

Should aim for min 3-0 to make up for the a Saturday disaster 

9 hours ago, Ellada2004 said:

You make it sound as if I said we are going to Italy. It's Finland re.. If our team is focused and we have our key players we will win it won't be easy but will do it. 

Not long ago we went to Finland and got smoked off the park playing the football we play now... I dunno, I feel we need big change but time is limited.

If Anastasiadis or who ever is coach in September can’t see we need to use wingers on the wing and stop playing Samaris + a decent RB we may do something 

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When Soc started, we had Kyriakos, Seitaridis, Patzatsoglou Torosidis. As well as Katsouranis and Karagounis. More or less players with much more experience that helped him with NT. He was the youngest at the 2010 WC at 22. He started well and stayed that way.

I never like to see us change our back 4 unless injuries or suspension. Certainly not from one match to the next. Look at France and Croatia in WC 2018. They changed the odd player here or there but never their back 4. Absolute total stability.

This is one thing Scibbe did well, I think.

Now compare that with our current NT and the 5-6 games Anastasiadis has been in charge. Not one single match has he used the same backline. With formation changes from one match to the next and during matches. Total instability. 

When Anastasiadis drops Toro and brings in a Kotsiras (uncapped) and a Mavrias (? how many has he played <5) then changes LB, CB and RB every match and then drops Manolas and changes GK every match and can't decide on a formation then you can start to imagine what our experienced players think. This is just one problem with the coach, as other points have already been made. He must go. Rumors are that Ouzounidis, Dellas are possible replacements. Yes, I would take either in the current climate to get us through qualifiers otherwise we will completely implode.

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Imagine never playing a position and your coach, 1 hour before game time tells you that you are up. Naturally, you will struggle.  The annoying thing is that he held a camp for 2 weeks beforehand to get his team ready.  What were they doing?

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12 hours ago, Alphonse said:

I agree, not the first time Papastathopoulos has made statements like this, not the right message for young players and from our leader.

Anastasiadis has every right to say, if you think we have no hope you shouldn’t be part of this. On his side, coach needs to look at some of these call ups and if we have premadonas in the squad that’s a bigger issue. I’m personally starting to question the motivation of Socrates, Manolas & Toro... why did Toro have a bif with Angelo? Or visa versa... our experienced guys seem to be crying and playing the worst (exc Fortounis) - think about it

yeah seems they have heavy ego. They're like we play in top clubs in Europe, who's this little super league coach think he knows better than me. Not realizing that a lot of the reason why they're great players is because they are part of great clubs. The great clubs of Arsenal and Roma are able to mask the ego. 

This is different to our top class players before. They were more humble and did whatever needed to be done for the NT and never gave up. IE Salpingidis, Karagounis, Zagorakis. Hard working and humble players.

Sokratis is a sore loser. Not captain material at all. Actually the only player who I think mentally is strong and a good example is Zeca. In all honesty Zeca should probably be captain. Sad. A non-Greek but he plays harder and hustles harder then any other Greek I can think of in the 11. The other ones waste precious energy getting frustrated. Zeca puts his head down and WORKS.

We only have to beat Finland twice guys and we're back in it. It's not the hugest mountain to climb. (As well as win our other games and the Italy game can probably be lost/drawn.

This is probably why Otto kicked out Zikos and Georgatos even though they were clearly part of the best 11 talent wise. Their mentality was cancer.

A hard working player like Zeca increases the team exponentially. Maybe we should even play with our under 21s. Bring in Chatzigiovannis, Bouzoukis etc.

I never thought I'd say that but yeah I finally see these guys are prima donnas.

maybe something like this

           Koulouris

Donis Bouzoukis Chatzigiovannis

         zeca(c) kourbelis

koutris siovas retsos bakakis

            odysseas

not sure. Sokratis very suspect though and it sucks because he's our best player but what he's saying is just so wrong. Kastouranis is friends with him and needs to knock some sense into him.

 

I like Bakakis, Koutris, Zeca, Chatzi, Bouzoukis because they're very hard workers. Retsos and Donis also give me the vibe as well. I think Koulouris would feed off of that as well. I think Siovas is solid as well and elphantos who knows them says he has more brains than Sokratis/Manolas

Odysseas I'm not sure on I mean he plays for Benfica but maybe even pasxalakis. Zeca and Kourbelis have good chemistry from the pao days

even with this line up I think we should be able to beat Finland provided the cancer mentality dies

a captain should motivate the other players and the only player I think that does that is Zeca for us.

Edited by georgelaz
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6 hours ago, kbxk508 said:

When Soc started, we had Kyriakos, Seitaridis, Patzatsoglou Torosidis. As well as Katsouranis and Karagounis. More or less players with much more experience that helped him with NT. He was the youngest at the 2010 WC at 22. He started well and stayed that way.

I never like to see us change our back 4 unless injuries or suspension. Certainly not from one match to the next. Look at France and Croatia in WC 2018. They changed the odd player here or there but never their back 4. Absolute total stability.

This is one thing Scibbe did well, I think.

Now compare that with our current NT and the 5-6 games Anastasiadis has been in charge. Not one single match has he used the same backline. With formation changes from one match to the next and during matches. Total instability. 

When Anastasiadis drops Toro and brings in a Kotsiras (uncapped) and a Mavrias (? how many has he played <5) then changes LB, CB and RB every match and then drops Manolas and changes GK every match and can't decide on a formation then you can start to imagine what our experienced players think. This is just one problem with the coach, as other points have already been made. He must go. Rumors are that Ouzounidis, Dellas are possible replacements. Yes, I would take either in the current climate to get us through qualifiers otherwise we will completely implode.

Good analysis, Manolas too his credit was standing cheering the team on and you could see the agony in his face when they were down.

The EPO keeps screwing everything up they should have hired someone other than Angelo after they fired Skibbe perhaps we wouldn’t be sitting on 4 points after 4 matches in a relatively easy group and having our key players saying they will retire because of the current coach. 

Greece needs to get back to stability as we had during the Rehhagel/ Santos years. Looks like we will soon be on to our sixth coach in five years that’s what you see happening to the likes of Bulgaia, Romania, Hungary’s etc..The EPO needs to spend more money for the best available coach and stop this carousel.

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2 hours ago, georgelaz said:

yeah seems they have heavy ego. They're like we play in top clubs in Europe, who's this little super league coach think he knows better than me. Not realizing that a lot of the reason why they're great players is because they are part of great clubs. The great clubs of Arsenal and Roma are able to mask the ego. 

This is different to our top class players before. They were more humble and did whatever needed to be done for the NT and never gave up. IE Salpingidis, Karagounis, Zagorakis. Hard working and humble players.

Sokratis is a sore loser. Not captain material at all. Actually the only player who I think mentally is strong and a good example is Zeca. In all honesty Zeca should probably be captain. Sad. A non-Greek but he plays harder and hustles harder then any other Greek I can think of in the 11. The other ones waste precious energy getting frustrated. Zeca puts his head down and WORKS.

We only have to beat Finland twice guys and we're back in it. It's not the hugest mountain to climb. (As well as win our other games and the Italy game can probably be lost/drawn.

This is probably why Otto kicked out Zikos and Georgatos even though they were clearly part of the best 11 talent wise. Their mentality was cancer.

A hard working player like Zeca increases the team exponentially. Maybe we should even play with our under 21s. Bring in Chatzigiovannis, Bouzoukis etc.

I never thought I'd say that but yeah I finally see these guys are prima donnas.

maybe something like this

           Koulouris

Donis Bouzoukis Chatzigiovannis

         zeca(c) kourbelis

koutris siovas retsos bakakis

            odysseas

not sure. Sokratis very suspect though and it sucks because he's our best player but what he's saying is just so wrong. Kastouranis is friends with him and needs to knock some sense into him.

 

I like Bakakis, Koutris, Zeca, Chatzi, Bouzoukis because they're very hard workers. Retsos and Donis also give me the vibe as well. I think Koulouris would feed off of that as well. I think Siovas is solid as well and elphantos who knows them says he has more brains than Sokratis/Manolas

Odysseas I'm not sure on I mean he plays for Benfica but maybe even pasxalakis. Zeca and Kourbelis have good chemistry from the pao days

even with this line up I think we should be able to beat Finland provided the cancer mentality dies

a captain should motivate the other players and the only player I think that does that is Zeca for us.

I disagree for me this took balls by Socrates and Monolas to finally stand up and say something, they don’t have to play for the team they could be enjoying there holidays but they choose to be with the team and if they didn’t care they would keep there mouth shut but instead the want to succeed and it truly hurts them so they take charge and walk into the EPO office and demand change for the better of the team.. Yes Maybe there should be certain things not said in public but Socrates and Monolas said “Many many players came up to them and expressed there concern” so for me I give them credit for giving a s%&#036;#&#33; and demanding change for the better of the team.. This team has only won 14 out of 46 games in the last 5 years since the 2014 World Cup so I’m glad Socrates and Monolas have decided to step up and say something as these number are truly disgusting...

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This team has only won 14 out of 46 games in the last 5 years since the 2014 World Cup 

 

———————

 

that would make them a huge part part of the problem then. They should look in the mirror also. 

 

And btw I’m just curious what kind of changes he’s calling for?  At the top? The coaches? Players? I’m not sure. 

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39 minutes ago, J1078 said:

I disagree for me this took balls by Socrates and Monolas to finally stand up and say something, they don’t have to play for the team they could be enjoying there holidays but they choose to be with the team and if they didn’t care they would keep there mouth shut but instead the want to succeed and it truly hurts them so they take charge and walk into the EPO office and demand change for the better of the team.. Yes Maybe there should be certain things not said in public but Socrates and Monolas said “Many many players came up to them and expressed there concern” so for me I give them credit for giving a s%&#036;#&#33; and demanding change for the better of the team.. This team has only won 14 out of 46 games in the last 5 years since the 2014 World Cup so I’m glad Socrates and Monolas have decided to step up and say something as these number are truly disgusting...

Good point that they probably do care but they're going about it the completely wrong way in my opinion. I'm sure Zikos and Georgatos cared too but their attitude wasn't good for the locker room

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16 hours ago, georgelaz said:

yeah seems they have heavy ego. They're like we play in top clubs in Europe, who's this little super league coach think he knows better than me. Not realizing that a lot of the reason why they're great players is because they are part of great clubs. The great clubs of Arsenal and Roma are able to mask the ego. 

This is different to our top class players before. They were more humble and did whatever needed to be done for the NT and never gave up. IE Salpingidis, Karagounis, Zagorakis. Hard working and humble players.

Sokratis is a sore loser. Not captain material at all. Actually the only player who I think mentally is strong and a good example is Zeca. In all honesty Zeca should probably be captain. Sad. A non-Greek but he plays harder and hustles harder then any other Greek I can think of in the 11. The other ones waste precious energy getting frustrated. Zeca puts his head down and WORKS.

We only have to beat Finland twice guys and we're back in it. It's not the hugest mountain to climb. (As well as win our other games and the Italy game can probably be lost/drawn.

This is probably why Otto kicked out Zikos and Georgatos even though they were clearly part of the best 11 talent wise. Their mentality was cancer.

A hard working player like Zeca increases the team exponentially. Maybe we should even play with our under 21s. Bring in Chatzigiovannis, Bouzoukis etc.

I never thought I'd say that but yeah I finally see these guys are prima donnas.

maybe something like this

           Koulouris

Donis Bouzoukis Chatzigiovannis

         zeca(c) kourbelis

koutris siovas retsos bakakis

            odysseas

not sure. Sokratis very suspect though and it sucks because he's our best player but what he's saying is just so wrong. Kastouranis is friends with him and needs to knock some sense into him.

 

I like Bakakis, Koutris, Zeca, Chatzi, Bouzoukis because they're very hard workers. Retsos and Donis also give me the vibe as well. I think Koulouris would feed off of that as well. I think Siovas is solid as well and elphantos who knows them says he has more brains than Sokratis/Manolas

Odysseas I'm not sure on I mean he plays for Benfica but maybe even pasxalakis. Zeca and Kourbelis have good chemistry from the pao days

even with this line up I think we should be able to beat Finland provided the cancer mentality dies

a captain should motivate the other players and the only player I think that does that is Zeca for us.

Your kidding yourself if you think we're capable of beating Finland twice!

Agona Sport have given me free credit to watch the Finland game in September, which is the only reason I'm going to watch.

I imagine its going to be at least a 2-0 loss. 

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@Chris Tsamados

im with you dude I think there is no way In hell we are beating Finland twice especially in Finland which we’ve never won.. How this team can give anyone optimism with the state that they are in is nuts.. we will finish just ahead of Liechtenstein.. the dressing room is a disaster the team is not a team.. even if we get a new coach there will be a transition period again so to me these euros are done for us.. 

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18 hours ago, georgelaz said:

Good point that they probably do care but they're going about it the completely wrong way in my opinion. I'm sure Zikos and Georgatos cared too but their attitude wasn't good for the locker room

5 coaches and an epic donkey show for the last almost 5 years. They definitely aren't going about it wrong when years of their playing careers are being wasted away with clowns. They only get one career, and sokratis is already in his 30s, so I don't blame them for taking a stand. And let's not kid ourselves, there were already questions about this coaches ways and the issues he's already had with players. I don't care what they're doing on the field, they're being asked to do ridiculous things and stop 100 bazillion attacks every game and with little to no offensive help. You think guys like pelkas just sit there after constantly being played out of position and don't speak up to the vets. And obv the vets look at the situation and know that guys are being asked to do things that they aren't used to, then get benched when they struggle. Yet donkeys like tzaveshit, tsioshit and bakashitas get infinity chances no matter how dog s#it they are. Why you think holebas quit? You really wanna fly out from England (where he starts every week) to play 3rd fiddle to guys that can't lace up his cleats? So ya of course morale has gone down to the toilet, no one can stand watching it anymore, including the players who id say know the game pretty well. 

No we're not a world beater team, but we have some very good talent in the pool that we all know doesn't get used. 

Everyone remember what happened when we put all our skill on against hungry? They needed to win and we didn't and we took them to town, yes our defense wasn't great but it didn't matter cause our offense was. Time to παιχε μπάλα the old d schemes are gone, too many skilled players in the world now to just lock it down, you have to be able to push back. A good offense is a good defense, teams can't score if they don't have the ball. We don't have a great offense, but we do possess one, and it's time it was given a chance. 

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5 hours ago, J1078 said:

@Chris Tsamados

im with you dude I think there is no way In hell we are beating Finland twice especially in Finland which we’ve never won.. How this team can give anyone optimism with the state that they are in is nuts.. we will finish just ahead of Liechtenstein.. the dressing room is a disaster the team is not a team.. even if we get a new coach there will be a transition period again so to me these euros are done for us.. 

J1078 I share your frustration but Greece can go and beat Finland. Finland are decent but who do they have that we should fear Pukki, Sparv. Lod? Aside from there Gk who plays at Leverkusen none of them play at a big European club. They even have a couple mls players from Montreal and Minnesota lol.. 

If Greece get united and stop the bickering and start games without conceding silly goals then this team can beat Finland, Bosnia and Armenia for sure. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Ellada2004 said:

J1078 I share your frustration but Greece can go and beat Finland. Finland are decent but who do they have that we should fear Pukki, Sparv. Lod? Aside from there Gk who plays at Leverkusen none of them play at a big European club. They even have a couple mls players from Montreal and Minnesota lol.. 

If Greece get united and stop the bickering and start games without conceding silly goals then this team can beat Finland, Bosnia and Armenia for sure. 

 

Who does Armenia have? Or Estonia? Or even the Faroes?

It's not about roster quality (not that we have much either). 

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6 hours ago, LaputanMachine said:

Who does Armenia have? Or Estonia? Or even the Faroes?

It's not about roster quality (not that we have much either). 

Those countries you mentioned have been sitting in the 100 spots of the FIFA rankings for many years. We don’t have roster quality? Your serious?

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8 hours ago, Ellada2004 said:

Those countries you mentioned have been sitting in the 100 spots of the FIFA rankings for many years. We don’t have roster quality? Your serious?

And those countries beat us in our last encounter against them. 

And no, we certainly don't have much quality. There is Fortounis, Manolas and Sokratis. That's it.

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5 hours ago, LaputanMachine said:

And those countries beat us in our last encounter against them. 

And no, we certainly don't have much quality. There is Fortounis, Manolas and Sokratis. That's it.

Yes they did but the Faroes was with tinker man Ranieri who screwed up things so badly with the NT after Santos left. Greece totally outplayed Estonia with 25 shots and they beat us with an own goal. Armenia took advantage of our sloppy start but next time they won't be so lucky... 

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Just wanted to say I was speaking to a guy from Finland a couple days ago whom I recently met at my sons soccer club. We were chatting about the Euro qualifying and I asked him about the Finnish team and he said they are playing much better defensively under the new coach and Pukki has flourished under him and also the country as a whole is more behind them than they have been in more than 20 years and its uplifting the team. He said Greece will be tough to beat in Tampere, Finland and believes it will still come down to us or them for 2nd place. He is baffled by our recent run of results especially how bad we have been defensively. I filled him in on the new coach and that some of our key players are not seeing eye to eye with Ange and that he may not be leading us into the September fixtures. 

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We won't beat Finland away. I don't understand how anyone can think that. It's a mess now. The game is like 10 weeks away. This European campaign is over. 

Be prepared to wait a long long time to ever qualify again. It's going to be Years to fix this mess. 

We are now 52 in FIFA rankings , 31 in European teams. We will end up probably in pot 5 for next qualification. Then what? Lol ? 

its a chain reaction will take years and years to fix. I don't think we will ever qualify again for at least another 20 yrs. 

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18 hours ago, Ellada2004 said:

Yes they did but the Faroes was with tinker man Ranieri who screwed up things so badly with the NT after Santos left. Greece totally outplayed Estonia with 25 shots and they beat us with an own goal. Armenia took advantage of our sloppy start but next time they won't be so lucky... 

We lost twice against the Faroes. 2 different coaches at that time. We lost with Ranieri and Markarian.

Outplaying Estonia doesn't mean anything. At the end we lost ! 

We also lost to Armenia because we seem to ALWAYS start sloppy under Angelos. It's not just this game.

 

....

We are slightly underneath Finland in terms of quality. We can beat them, but it won't be easy at all. 2 wins against them is almost a miracle with our current team.

 

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On 6/14/2019 at 5:26 PM, Ellada2004 said:

J1078 I share your frustration but Greece can go and beat Finland. Finland are decent but who do they have that we should fear Pukki, Sparv. Lod? Aside from there Gk who plays at Leverkusen none of them play at a big European club. They even have a couple mls players from Montreal and Minnesota lol.. 

If Greece get united and stop the bickering and start games without conceding silly goals then this team can beat Finland, Bosnia and Armenia for sure. 

 

Btw. Lod is a good player. Definitely a starter in the Greek NT. He does everything reasonably well.

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