Jump to content
Phantis Forums

Euro 2020 Group J - Greece Vs. Italy (8 June 2019, Olympic Stadium, Athens)


Argy

Recommended Posts

12 hours ago, Alphonse said:

This is in fact very very true!! I have never seen it so bad, the 94 team that travelled to the USA would put 3-4 past this mob. 

I posted before some months ago, we need to start looking at skilled players, you saw today and I saw it in other games, Turkish game for example, opposition is pressing is and we have to play it back to the goalkeeper as the current mob cant take a player on or have any vision to pass it out, Samaris and Kourbelis just can't do it, Zeca does and so does Bouchalakis but we also need skill across the field, Fetfa can do it for example, the guys in Holland like Lamprou also, speed and skill, some of the  better younger PAO guys,  Christodoulopoulos would have been some help today, Stafylidis, no right wing... horrible stuff, yes Torosidis would have been good today, as would Koutris who is much better than gameless Stafylidis.

What good is playing all these defensive players when we keep eating so many goals! Best defense is a good offense, enough with these crap tactics NOT TO LOSE - not working

Post of the year for me!

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, J1078 said:

This one really hurts and not the fact that we lost it's how we lost. Again I'm left scratching my head trying to figure what style of play we were trying to play. If we sit back and really think about it if Pjanic doesn't take a red card we are 1 win and 2 losses to start this campaign and the fact that we have conceded 7 goals in our last 3 games in the first half is mind blowing it doesn't even give us a chance. Angelo said from the beginning when he was hired "I don't care about positions a good soccer player can play anywhere" He is staying true to his word and it is now biting us in the ass. Zeca is much more useful in the midfield, Toro should have been called up, Barkas made some big saves but in NO way he should have started this game over the other 2 guys. Once again as bad as the players looked they looked confused and lost as they are not use to playing this system.. I said a couple weeks back that I hope this coach plays guys in there natural position and doesn't start an experimental formation that the players are not accustomed to playing and that's exactly what he did. You can see clearly this crop of players are not meant to just sit back and defend it DOES'NT WORK for them they don't have the mentality to just sit back. You are better off playing 4-2-3-1. Also the fact that we were down 3-0 and the subs that were made were just as concerning to me and made absolutely no sense at all. Why even bother calling Kolouris up anymore the only guy on this roster with any scoring pedigree but yet is never used is mind boggling. I think this defeat may have done a lot of damage to the players psyche and made them lose any positive feeling they had for this team after the Bosnia come back. This next game on Tuesday may turn out to be the end of our qualifiers....

We don’t have any quality players. If we did then our players can play anywhere. It’s mind boggling that we leave out players who have glimpses of quality eg. Fetfatzidis, Lamprou - and call up players who are D+ level at best eg. Valerianos, Bakasetas, Mavrias. 

It will be the end of Anastasiadis having a job with Greece if we lose our next match. I’m more than happy for him to be fired and bring in a foreign coach who knows what to do. He played a system that didn’t suit our players. Fortounis dosent press, Pelkas would have been great in that role. Kourbelis and Samaris as deep lying number 6s/CBs. They have limited to no skill on the ball. That’s why our midfield is non existent and can’t get things going. 

Fortounis cant take on players. He relys in playing in tight spaces and moving side wards. Instead of beating a player and putting the ball on a platter for the striker. Fetfatzidis is capable of doing this. Gianniotas can play the wingers role almost perfectly. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't understand how some guys on here think it's not the coaches fault and somehow the players are to blame. He had 7 defenders on the field out of 10 f'n players!! What f'n planet do you have to be from to think that's logical or that this was our most talented options for this game?!?! We didn't even have a striker on the field! That's logical? 

K question for the people who say not the coaches fault. You start this line up, you go down 2-0 (for the 3rd straight game, which should already give you pause about your choices or lack there of) what is your move? Sit and wait or make adjustments? 2nd question. Now your down 3-0 at ht, what are your moves? You're down by 3 at home, so you need to score, generate some offense. Who you taking off? Logic says take off defensive players for offensive minded players. Instead he takes off a winger and takes off kourbelis and puts mavrias at rb. Rb wasn't the reason we couldn't generate chances, even someone with half a soccer iq could see that. We needed a striker and another am out there instead of 2 dms. We're down 3 so we're not defending a lead. That line up is what you play in the last 5 mins when you're holding on to a 1 goal lead for dear life lol not what you start a game with and try to play for 90 mins lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Zeca       Manolas    sio     sok       koutris

                Fortounis       samaris

Masouras                                   kolovos

                         Koulouris

 

This would have made sense in a defensive scheme. Fortou in with the dm so he can make a quick up to the forward and actually catch the Italians on the counter. To player counter attacking football, you need player who can counter, which means someone who can make quick breaks and someone who can get them the ball. It would force the Italians back and give us room, they wouldnt be able to swarm us the way they were. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My 2 cents:

Disappointing performance.

Apart from coaching it is about talent/playing with consistency.

Apart from our 2 CBs (and I have some issues with their play) we have 3 ok keepers and 2 players that can deliver consistency Fortounis and Zeka. Thats it.

Donis and Mitrodgou while talented have not been able to help different reasons.

Take Samaris for example. On first view he is a very talented 8 type midfielder. On the Belgium game he was late on a marking and resulted in a goal. Yesterday he missed a marking couldn't catch up and resulted in another goal.If Zeka or Siopis were in his place nothing of these is happening.

Stafilidis plays like a crap. IMO, also Manolas & Papastathopoulos played very average. Are not they supposed to be our best players?

On an other goal an Italian player blow by Manolas easily. Actually both of them along with Siovas looked slow.

I believe that Papa is on the decline. I am a Zeka fun, and I believe even at RB he was our best player in first half; Fortounis was in the second.

  • Like it 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it the coaches fault? Maybe a bit. But this is what the 4th coach in the last 3 years? That to me tells me it’s also just not having good players. You play the cards you’re dealt with. His cards suck. You can’t tell me there is any one player who’s heads above others and can make a difference if he plays or not. The talent on this team is horrible. Plain and simple. 

 

And btw it’s not the coaches fault Manolas doesn’t know how to shield a player and gives him a free shot. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Coach is at fault for a lot of things. But he isn't at fault when the best players like Manolas, Sokratis, Samaris, Siovas are having a really bad game. They should lead this team, and defend with all they got.

Instead they barely run, can't mark players, and just are overchallenged by the Italian attack

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No one can sit and defend a bazillion scoring chances for 90 mins wtf?! 

In a normal game you have your o minded players take possession, gett some chances, which moves/forces the opposition back into their own 3rd for periods of time, which shifts momentum, which gives the d break and which allows us to break down chances with more ease since they would be able to sustain 5 and 6 players up high. But because we only had 3 guys up top, 2 of which were constantly tracking back to defend, the Italians could stay up and press constantly, which is why when Greece tried to move players up field, we got fed. We tried that makakia with Germany, with aregentina, with Croatia away, it doesn't work. Put your best player in each position on the field, and go. In 04 we played defensive, but we still had our best players on the fired, zagorakos basinas, stelios, katsou, Kara, tsiartas. All except tsiartas were great at tracking back, but could make really nice passes and get up field to support the attack. 

 

We have good cm's with good passing ability, but they aren't utilized. Yes we've had a few coaches, but they all try the same thing and fail miserably. Anyone who truly knows this team and truly understands soccer, saw that line up yesterday and thought what on f'n earth is this idiot doing now. Then he sits there picking butterflies while the Italians pummel us with chances. Then he subs off a winger for a dm and a rb instead of adding to the attack. And never brings on koulouris or durmishaj, epically mind boggling. We know more about the talent greece posses than the coaching staff, that is a guarantee at this point, not our opinions. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our main problem is that we are conceding way to many goals. Three in the first half was most since the match in Croatia, but there we didn't have Manolas. The Italians second goal by Insigne was a beautiful finish. The other two should have been prevented. Sokratis and Manolas especially struggled in this game. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, gsots said:

I don't understand how some guys on here think it's not the coaches fault and somehow the players are to blame. He had 7 defenders on the field out of 10 f'n players!! What f'n planet do you have to be from to think that's logical or that this was our most talented options for this game?!?! We didn't even have a striker on the field! That's logical? 

K question for the people who say not the coaches fault. You start this line up, you go down 2-0 (for the 3rd straight game, which should already give you pause about your choices or lack there of) what is your move? Sit and wait or make adjustments? 2nd question. Now your down 3-0 at ht, what are your moves? You're down by 3 at home, so you need to score, generate some offense. Who you taking off? Logic says take off defensive players for offensive minded players. Instead he takes off a winger and takes off kourbelis and puts mavrias at rb. Rb wasn't the reason we couldn't generate chances, even someone with half a soccer iq could see that. We needed a striker and another am out there instead of 2 dms. We're down 3 so we're not defending a lead. That line up is what you play in the last 5 mins when you're holding on to a 1 goal lead for dear life lol not what you start a game with and try to play for 90 mins lol

You are absolutely right.. out of pure frustration yesterday I also said I’m done blaming coaches but when I sat back and thought about it logically and saw the formation and where players were pIaying  this one is 100% on the coach. I’ve been reading different outlets and reporters and they are stunned with the style of play and where he made guys play and not having a striker especially playing zeca at RB and not calling Toro or having Koutris and Kolouris on. Wtf was the point of the mini training they did in May or wtf did they learn from the horrible friendly against Turkey?? Simple answer absolutely  nothing.. on the other hand our players need to also take responsibility as Socrates and Manolas were not leaders yesterday and did not lead by example as they were very average.. We are very limited in our talent pool and that’s why no coach the last some years has been able to find consistent success with this team.. I think we can find a coach that can utilize our best players but even then we will be a very mediocre team at best.

Edited by J1078
  • Like it 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder what the players thought about the lineup when they first heard it, and how that affected their morale. 

If I was Fortounis I’d be pretty annoyed to be put in that position all alone to begin with, he lacks the stamina to cover that area for 90 min. While I do like fortounis, and I believe he is a talented player, he 1. Takes too long to make the pass/ decision. And 2. Sometimes it seems like he’s going through te motion, or he has low IQ. That offside pass he made on the counter attack was CLEARLY offside yet he rushed it. Maybe he was tired and didn’t wanna run the ball, but I was watching that play in horror.

And I don’t understand why the f%#* nobody in the team wants to take a shot, if you have an open look ANYWHERE near the box take the shot. Our best chances were the volleys from siovas and fortounis. maybe The teams morale is ripping our players confidence apart. The team need the win in Armenia for confidence more than anything. Italy’s attacking third had a great game, and our defending had a horrible game. You could see it in their faces they were mentally checked out.

 

torosidis is a jacka%# when it comes to the fight with the coach. He knows he’s needed, but he’s not above the team. He should want to play and help his teammates. Instead he let his pride get in the way. I’m fine if the coach refuses to play him until he apologizes. No player is above the team and that attitude is cancer to the team chemistry. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do we know what caused the fight between Toro and the coach? I mean if the fight was over these tactics or playing Torosidis out of position then I wouldn't blame him. Toro has been a great member of the NT and I am sure it wasn't just out of nowhere that this falling out occurred. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who cares about toro. He doesn’t wanna play, then don’t. He’s not above the team. No one is. He’s also not Cafu, Roberto Carlos it Maldini. So with that. Bye bye toro. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Jimmyp said:

Who cares about toro. He doesn’t wanna play, then don’t. He’s not above the team. No one is. He’s also not Cafu, Roberto Carlos it Maldini. So with that. Bye bye toro. 

Nobody said he doesn’t want to play.. The coach never selected him.. If he was chosen he would have joined.. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The coach played a system that didn’t benefit our players. Fortounis played in the wrong position. Zeca played at RB where you needed his hustle in the centre. Manolas and Sokratis didn’t play well and that’s what happens when your midfield is non existent defensively then the defence would be under pressure (in this case a lot) and eventually make mistakes, which happened. There was no excuse on the 2nd goal where Manolas let the Insigne score like that. By his standards he should have done better. The coach is to blame for starting the game the way he did.

Our players are not good enough to be playing different positions. They haven’t even mastered their own position let alone play anywhere else. 

Italy have quality players. Bosnia have a few quality players. Who do we have? Sokratis is on the decline. Fortounis and Samaris are too slow and make silly mistakes. Manolas is close to quality but still needs areas to improve on. Our players are one dimensional. 

Masouras worked hard and tracked back a lot and helped out Zeca. 

  • Like it 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apparently another bad result and the coach is fired.  He did say that Toro will be selected when healthy.  Many of us here had been wishing for a back 3 of Siovas, Manolas, Papa but it didn't work out.  The reason at the end he didn't put on any offensive players was because he was trying to limit the damage, to keep the score only at 3-0.  The team had no confidence.  When you think about it, the Belgium team we played two years ago was better than this Italian version but we just haven't found the right formula under this coach.  Another thing was that we were missing a legit scoring threat from us, we had no one that  scared them.  Say what you want about Donis skill, he is fast and always a threat to break away.  We didn't have anyone like that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The all defence type teams are a thing of the past. Even the Italian team doesn't do that anymore and they were the best at it during the 70s and 80s. 

Greece did it in 2004 but that was the last team that won  a major event with that type of play. 

Too many good players on too many good teams. You have to have a team that is capable of scoring.

Some say that the best defense is a good offense. Spain won a world cup using a bunch of midfielders who never gave up the ball.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Athens4 said:

I cannot believe there are people who still insist on playing games in that stadium. The NT should play their games in Crete (they produced an excellent atmosphere when we played there in 2007). If not Crete then they should at least play the games in different stadiums like the German NT does.

I am reading people saying that Greece never improves or works on talent etc. We all know that Greece should have built upon the success in 2004 but nothing happened. God knows where the money went. The fact is that nothing works in Greece except for the beaches and tavernas. Everything else is a joke.

I agree with most of what you said. I was more focused on OAKA being all wrong. If we could fill it up, OAKA would be great. 70,000 crazy Greeks in a beautiful stadium that we proudly displayed to the world in 2004 for the Olympics. Unfortunately, it's just far too big for the interest level in the ethniki, and not much of a home field. I do however, believe Karaiskaki is the right choice. 34,000 seats and much closer to the field, creating an intimate atmosphere where we're harder to beat. Piraeus is still well within the Athens area, and if you understand Greece, as I'm sure you do, you know that's where everyone is. In a country of 11 million people, 3.5 million live in Athens, and 6 million live in the region of Attiki. I know EPO planned on a 5 year deal to play in Crete, but the Pankritiko Stadio needs work to get up to snuff. Maybe there will be a couple games there, even later in this campaign. Until then, we have to find a way to win some home games in Athens at OAKA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, LaputanMachine said:

Bouchalakis never looked good, and we always lose when he plays.

I dont agree, his passing is much better than Samaris and Kourbelis, I think he gives us more possession and better lead up than these two, and right now this is something the Ethniki needs after Anastasiadis has confused the players

Link to comment
Share on other sites

.

15 hours ago, PaoOle said:

ke Samaris for example. On first view he is a very talented 8 type midfielder. On the Belgium game he was late on a marking and resulted in a goal. Yesterday he missed a marking couldn't catch up and resulted in another goal.If Zeka or Siopis were in his place nothing of these is happening.

Can you please post more often? Your post is excellent and I wanted to touch on this point, you can add the Turkish 2nd goal to that and an invisible display vs Bosnia in the first half when he was meant to lead the midfield, I said before, I dunno how he is doing it at Benfica but he has been utter crap for Hellas the last 12 months at least, was also the lead man in the Euro 16 qualifiers and we know how that went. 

If Samaris starts against Armenia we are in trouble again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Jimmyp said:

Is it the coaches fault? Maybe a bit. But this is what the 4th coach in the last 3 years? That to me tells me it’s also just not having good players. You play the cards you’re dealt with. His cards suck. You can’t tell me there is any one player who’s heads above others and can make a difference if he plays or not. The talent on this team is horrible. Plain and simple. 

 

And btw it’s not the coaches fault Manolas doesn’t know how to shield a player and gives him a free shot. 

Players did not step up ok but when you are playing so many players out of position it's hard not ti blame the coach and when we keep making the silly mistakes over and over... come on man. Our starying 11 was all wrong, and the subs in the second half were laughable, we can not continue with Anastasiadis.

Say what we want on players but we need a coach who AT THE VERY LEAST is starting players in their natural positions and not a team of defenders so we dont lose at home and eat these silly easy goals.

Incidentally, since 2005, Italy have only scored three goals in the first half of a match against Liechtenstein, the Faroe Islands and now Greece! ?:thirst:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Jimmyp said:

Is it the coaches fault? Maybe a bit. But this is what the 4th coach in the last 3 years? That to me tells me it’s also just not having good players. You play the cards you’re dealt with. His cards suck. You can’t tell me there is any one player who’s heads above others and can make a difference if he plays or not. The talent on this team is horrible. Plain and simple. 

 

And btw it’s not the coaches fault Manolas doesn’t know how to shield a player and gives him a free shot. 

if the ethniks lose to Armenis, Angelo is toast. He is 66 ffs, a light of other days, another Skibbe/Markarian. Primary criteria for the next coach in this revolving door of coaches, will have to be that HE MUST BE UNDER 55.

Manolas is the second poorest player in the team, Samaris is the worst. They should be dropped cause they have been garbage for multiple countless matches. 

Greek players that play or have played in Italy (and have a good grasp of hair gel) should of been there. He wont pick Toro so the coach has to go!

I would try Risvanis and Siovas with Sok on the bench actually. I dropped him from my team as a RB. Zeca is our best by a mile. He must be embarrassed that he can be that much better than the rest, infact, he is now my captain. Congratulations! 

  • Like it 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Took me 3 days to decide to write.
The positives:
Harmless defeat. Even if it ended 3-0 or 1-0 we would ve lost yesterday. Italy was on a good day.

 

I hope they just decided to throw the match away because the managerial mistakaes were too many to not notice. Even someone like y 70 year old father was like what is he doing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Took me the same too.

 

What a joke we were I only watched the first half. Mainly as I'd given up after that but also my Agnoa Sport stream kept freezing in the second half every two minutes. In the end I switched to the Cyprus game but that was doing the same (I've requested a refund).

 

My Cypriot friend who watched the first half was saying. The Greek team has everything a Football team should have tall strong players but there doesn't seem to be any team play between them. They're was a separation between the defense and midfield, unlike the Italians who were moving and passing fluidly. 

I didn't get a chance to sit and watch the game until Italy started knocking them in. We just seemed all at sea, without a game plan. For one of the goals Samaris tried a clumsy challenge and once he was beaten no one was covering  (God knows where Zeca was) and the player had aches of space to move up and take his shot. Poor defending for that and, actually all of the goals! The one thing that our team was known for, having a solid defense seems to have deserted us. 

 

But when the team lines-up without a striker and a midfield that seems to operate as a separate entity to the defense, what chance have we got? 

 

  • Like it 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Dutch Eagle pinned, unpinned and locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...