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PAO - AEK League Game


athinaios

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7 hours ago, Bananas said:

Give Ouzounidis the same budget as Olympiakos for 3 years and if the team is playing like it is now, then yeah, he's not a good coach.  I bet you if he was hired by Olympiakos earlier this season he would easily have won the league.  And then what ?  All of a sudden he's a better coach because he got a ready made team and a budget 10x what he's used to ?

As the commentators in England said last week when talking about Marco Silva to Hull, who wouldn't win the league if they were in charge of Oly? Lol

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8 hours ago, athinaios said:

^^^

I agree that a coach needs some time to change the team's style. .

no he doesn't ,ouzounidis has aleady changed Paos style from the very first match against Paok,he tells lod and kourbelis don't make runs into the box and the style has changed ,all of a sudden you have two players sitting back protecting the defence because the coach is scared of commiting forward at least with the Italian we were getting plenty of players forward and creating chances all of ouzuonidis games we don't create chances because he doesn't attack he is negative look at his results and the way the team has played,by telling a player don't make runs into the box you have changed the playing style ,it doesn't take decades to change a playing style you can do it from the very next game. that type of conservative football might work at panionios where you grind out results and finish 5-6 and everyone says what a great coach you are but at pao ,as coach of pao ,pao is expected to dominate,attack create chances,even in that 0-0 game aganst iraklis we created 22 clear scoring opportunities,under the Italian we were attacking and if we had a little bit of luck better finishing and better refs we could of progressed through our group stage in Europe.the problem is we don't really have a midfieder to help score goals when berg isn't so if your playing conservative where are your goals going to come from?hopefully leto can help now he is getting some playing time.

Edited by The Arcadian
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1 hour ago, The Arcadian said:

no he doesn't ,ouzounidis has aleady changed Paos style from the very first match against Paok,he tells lod and kourbelis don't make runs into the box and the style has changed ,all of a sudden you have two players sitting back protecting the defence because the coach is scared of commiting forward

On the flip side of that one can argue that he doesn't have faith in his CBs, or knows his teams transition isn't the best hence why he doesn't want them going so far forward. Also he may have enough confidence in his front 4 and 2 backs who overlap (if they overlap) can be many reasons why he chooses to do that. I personally don't see it as a negative though, each coach has their own style and philosophy of football they want their team to play.

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20 hours ago, Pana97 said:

With the Italian we were not an attacking side. 5 players at the back at times and some really bizarre formations, changes every game he was too inconsistent and his style was never really solid. In Europe the first few games his tactics seemed to work, but when we got scored on the team would lose morale. Ouzo is a better coach than the Italian in my opinion. 

Wrong. 

He was very consistent.

We played a 3-5-2/ 5-3-2 attack/defense in europe which fit the side like a glove.

For domestic games, he would always drop one of his CB and play a 4-2-3-1 and even 4-3-1-2.

He got us past brondby, whereby had we played a 4-4-2 rombo as we played with anastasiou, we would never have knocked them out. The team should've had maximum points against both malaga and standard away from home. We should've humiliated malaga, with the amount of chances we created. To win these games though, you need leaders like kara that can play for 90min. In the past, our results would reflect our performances.

I liked strama because he knew how to play in europe and eventually i think he would've brought in the right players that can give the side some character as a lot of the guys we currently have are way too passive. Strama also has connections ouzo can only dream of. We were linked to melo just before his departure, instead we got kourbelis.

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^^Celta my mistake.

 

3 minutes ago, Pana97 said:

lol remember the celta game? He single handily F***ed us by not subbing anyone until it was too late. The guy made some poor decisions and that cost him.

This is rather pessimistic to focus on the last 10min and dismiss the 80min prior, whereby he put on a coaching clinic. It's not strama's fault he had no depth. It was always a death sentence trying to compete in all competitions.

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Firstly, Europe and GSL are two very very different beasts.  In Europe the games are a lot more open and there is space to play.  In the GSL you're playing against packed defences every second game.  I agree with @val that even though PAO didn't get the results in Europe, they definitely played well, at least for some of the games.  Which shows there was something there to work with.  You can't be outplaying Celta for 80 minutes and say the team is totally crap.  If this team had maybe 2 core players of the likes of a Kara to drive the team, they would be much more consistent.

The problem as I see it was serious lack of fitness issues, serious lack of chemistry (how many transfer was it 19?) and the expectations of the supporters.  In the end Alafouzos took the easy option and got rid of Stramma.  Having said that I'm not saying Stramma is better than Ouzo or vice versa, I'm just saying that all things considered should we be surprised that PAO hasn't kicked ass domestically and in Europe considering all the issues.  You've got to be realistic.

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29 minutes ago, Pana97 said:

lol remember the celta game? He single handily F***ed us by not subbing anyone until it was too late. The guy made some poor decisions and that cost him.

That's one game that certainly comes to mind and ok to be fair PAO missed some big chances and had a penalty turned down but you could see players dying in the ass, then you see Celta's coach make subs which won him the game and the Italian didn't do anything.

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16 minutes ago, Pana97 said:

We played Celta not Malaga

I like Kourbelis better than Melo. Of course Melo had a better career, but Panathinaikos is Greek and we only had what, like one Greek in the eleven with Stramma? Lets face it Ledesma, Ibarbo, Ivanov were all busts and I think having a Risvanis, Kourbelis, and Vlaxodimos would give us some sort identity. The Bulgarians, and Colombians don't give a s%$#! about PAO. The rare occurrence like Leto or Zeca is good, but at the end of the day a Greek kid will know what Panathinaikos is versus the foreigner who came here to not get payed in the end.... 

Our aim should be building a solid core that can first compete in the league and then look at Europe. There is no excuse, Stramma losing to OFI was the final straw thank God we qualified to the next round of the cup and that was thanks to Ouzounidis. Under Stramma I can't think of a game where we came back and won when we were down. 

Have you see melo play? Defensively sound and very good on the ball, not to mention experience playing at the highest level. Kourbelis is not fit to tie his laces.

The previous sides had a core of greek players, but these were great players. If we had 11 kourbelis type players back then, we would not be talking about these sides.

Regarding playing for the shirt. Times have changed, these greek kids coming through don't have the same mentality.

 

 

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^^Ledesma actually failed his medical and yet we still signed him which is indicative of our management. Essien's injuries were well documented prior to him coming over. Unlike these bums, melo can actually give you minutes, not to mention he competes and would've installed some life in our midfield.

Offcourse a club has to be sustainable and bring in younger players but they also have to offer some value. I don't see enough in kourbelis to justify spending 700k. 

Also regarding our debt, we had no issues spending a healthy fee for a sub-par player.

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4 hours ago, Pana97 said:

We had players, but thanks to him signing so many foreigners we had to drop a few to add kids on the bench. Yes, we played good in that game, but that does not make him out to be a good coach. One good game does not excuse ten bad/average games. The depth excuse is a poor one, especially for the league. The way they played after that game is not excusable. Losing to that OFI side and dropping points when it mattered most, poor fitness, lack of mentality. Leto was benched a lot under Stramma and now that Ouzo is here Leto has been starting and scoring some vital goals. Boumal was great last year then the Italian drops him, Vlaxo rotted on the bench for no reason too. Stramma brought in hacks like I mentioned earlier too. For that one positive in Europe he sure had a lot of negatives to outweigh it. 

The team bled in those european games i mentioned and were not justified. It's never easy to pick you players up after these performances nor is it easy to play two games in the space of a few days. How many games was ledesma and zeca asked to play? What other options did strama have? Lod, reis, koutroubis - these guys might as well be playing for some of the smaller league sides because they are not pao material. 

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1 hour ago, Bananas said:

Or maybe this.

Zastava.jpg

 

But, hope is eternal.... Little Herbie could beat the muscle cars!

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ8ERLpMFSaZiho5te0dhu

So, if you score one of these, you can easily beat the Zastavas!

But this is what happens when Herbie isn't handled correctly..

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS60nY7OB5oD_X5-pn2ok-

 

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melo???...lol that has been can't even finish 90 mins with out getting sent off...F*** off  with the expensive foreign dud's..let's bring in upcoming young players!!...kourbelis is a perfect fit.. let him alone!

Edited by Green Man
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^^Too much of a panic buy for me.

Again i'm all for bringing in younger players but we have to be mindful that, this isn't the earlier 2000's were you had genuine talent coming through. I was in greece in 1993, 2000 and again in 2009, 2012 and 2013. The amount of kids playing on the street has declined significantly, whilst the ones that end up in academies are usually not taught well. What's happened since 2000, is that the talent has dried up and we have failed to establish a legitimate market outside the country. The Portuguese for instance have South America, ajax have Scandinavia, whilst we continue to neglect rocha.

 

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