Dutch Eagle Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 and 3-4 for Atromitos..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhawk Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 3:4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Eagle Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 and FT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhawk Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 When the F*** is this team going to start playing hard the full game even if you're leading by two goals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Eagle Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Unbelievable. Points should have been in the pocket. But than again. We are PAOK. Sometimes Magic PAOK, Mostly Tragic PAOK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhawk Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 Tragic mistakes by the team in the second half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAOKSWEDEN Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 This is exactly why we have 2 protathlimata, what a big fuc.king joke of a club we are. Merry christmas and a happy new year to everybody on the forum! I'm logging out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italosPAOK4 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 PAOKARA ROCK N ROLL ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhawk Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 Ivic came out and said some players sabotaged him today. He also said that right before the game he changed the lineup and now he is sorry that he did. The way I see it is that Ivic later today will be history, or that some players will be history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhawk Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 First half should have been 4:0 and game over. We never finish our opponents. That is our biggest problem. Now Ivic comes out and claims that there are people creating problems in the dressing room for the past month or so. He actually said that it is going to be either him or the players will leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Eagle Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I have seen it too. But as the headcoach of PAOK Ivic is entitled to bench (or even leave out of the squad) a player that does not fit in his plans for whatever reason. Only if Savvidis overrules him and orders him to select players than he should go. There is not a basis to continue as a coach if that is the reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananas Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Firstly, these games just happen sometimes, at least in normal leagues. Having said that PAOK are definitely specialists in self implosion. Blackhawk said it right when he said when is the team going to learn to play hard for 90 minutes. This is a sign of professionalism and a good work ethic. This has been a problem since, oh, probably 1986. This is where the manager and back-office need to step up. You can't rely just on the players to do it. Having a different manager and a different core of players each season doesn't allow for this. Simple as that. Being able to motivate the players for the "easy" games is how you give yourself a chance of even winning a title. Ivic was a little unlucky with the timing of the red card. It was straight after his 3rd substitution so he couldn't do a tactical substitution. If Ivic is talking straight about the "sabotage" then he needs to clarify this and get it sorted out. The idea that a dressing room is going to be harmonious is nice in theory but I believe rare in practise. Again to reiterate, it's up to Ivic and back-office to let the players know who is in charge. Based on PAOK's recent history, I wouldn't be afraid if I was a player, because I've seen plenty of managers go to the guillotine while the fans bay for blood. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Sydney Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 One thing I don't get about Ivic's comments, he says players tried to sabotage him, werent these the same players who went and won in Italy last week? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozi Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Savvidis to blame . . . Everything else is soap opera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonThanatos Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Original Sydney said: One thing I don't get about Ivic's comments, he says players tried to sabotage him, werent these the same players who went and won in Italy last week? It's in everyone's best interest to do well in Europe. The only reason decent players have to come to PAOK is to play in Europe and get picked up by an actual decent European calibre team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Sydney Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Playing well in Europe then putting a performance like this one wont be getting you much attention from decent European teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonThanatos Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 you'd be surprised how little of a $hit most teams give about the "Super" League.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Sydney Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 That I don't doubt at all, but looking at it from the players view as you've mentioned above, putting in a top performance in Europe then this performance today wont get much attention from bigger teams. The league is for the tip.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pash Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Watching the press conference now. He's pretty pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Sydney Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 pash, I saw a report with Savvidis saying he wont be going to toumba again, what's that all about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pash Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 10 hours ago, Original Sydney said: pash, I saw a report with Savvidis saying he wont be going to toumba again, what's that all about? I only saw the headline in passing (and now I can't find it), but I only took that to mean for right now. I do know Ivic was skyping with Savvidis, who is probably in Russia. Related: http://inpaok.com/329305 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhawk Posted November 29, 2016 Author Share Posted November 29, 2016 Savvidis said he is embarrassed by the team following the game with Atromitos, and allegedly told Ivic and Michel that he ill not step in Toumba again. In the meantime what the media bafoons don't report on are the behind the scenes discussions: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teke817 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 @Blackhawk@Bananas agreed with your comments - these crazy, tragic, ridiculous games and outcomes happen in sports. 1) Ivic' comments and subsequent actions to me are unacceptable. You can't throw hay-makers like that against your own team after an emotional loss. 2) Ivan is a pitiful reactionary. To say you won't come back to Toumba ... give me a break. 3) It shows a complete lack of perspective and leadership from the two most important members of the club - Manager and Owner. They of all people needed to show some calm. To scepgoat Tzavellas the day after is 100% unacceptable. I watched the "highlights" over and over again and he's not to blame on any of the goals. He didn't give up on any play. He didn't yell at his teammates or act the fool on the pitch after the goals. It's possible he said something in the locker room, but to me, Ivic already made up his mind to scapegoat one or more players the moment the whistle blew and a mic was put in front of his face. Even if he did pop off in the dressing room, it happens after a day like that. This is the worst part of PAOK football culture - the blame game. Take it for what it is ... a very poor loss where the team assumed they had 3 points before the game ended. IMHO, what's happened in the 24-hrs after the game is more embarrassing than the outcome itself. This is when PAOK feels like a "small" provincial club. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananas Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) @teke817 nice post. In any normal league Ivic's reaction would be considered way out of line for throwing players under the bus as well as embarrassing in general. Ivan taking his bat and ball is comical, but this is Greece and owners of clubs are almost expected to say stupid things after a bad loss. Regarding the Ivic-Tzavellas dynamic, I see two possibilities. It's possible Ivic just had a meltdown post game and has put the blame on Tzavellas. If this is the case, it does not bode well for either of them, but especially Ivic. If the squad perceives his actions as unjust or unstable he's lost the dressing room already and the clock is ticking. The other possibility is that Ivic has felt that Tzavellas is a cancer to the team for a while, but wasn't sure how to handle the situation given that he's a core player in the team and his relationship with Ivic's son. And he's seized this "opportunity" to make the team in his image. A normal president would be appalled at the way this has been handled, but Ivic knowing the way things work in Greece, this could be a master stroke. Regardless, if this is a "master stroke" it's a one shot. You can't do things like repeatedly without looking like a fool. As always, time will tell. Edited November 29, 2016 by Bananas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teke817 Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 @Bananas Ivic was instrumental in getting Tzavellas a contract extension before the season, so he couldn't have honestly believed he was a cancer. So far the "quotes" that I have heard attributed to Tzavellas in no way justify the harshness of the reaction. We are talking about a team captain and basically the most steady performer on the squad for two years. This is the starting LB on the NT for chrissake! Now what happens? We beg Holebas to come out of retirement? This is an unmitigated disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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